posted
I have been treated for more than a year for lyme (bor., myco). But haven't made any real progress. My biggest issues are severe weight loss, psychological problems, bloating and fatigue. Is it possible that parasites or worms can cause the severe weight loss?
I have been taking wormwood for 2 months now and saw some roundworms in my stool.
Posts: 2 | From Anvers | Registered: Feb 2015
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Catgirl
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Welcome anverss!
I think it is possible that parasites can cause severe weight loss. I also believe lyme fits in there as well. Check out the symptoms of parasites below.
Great you found roundworms! Wormwood will help, but unless you are hitting them with the big 3 all at once: wormwood, black walnut hulls and cloves, you won't really do much. The eggs will still live, and the bugs will still thrive.
Now is a great time to hit them before the full moon.
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quote:Originally posted by anverss: I have been treated for more than a year for lyme (bor., myco). But haven't made any real progress. My biggest issues are severe weight loss, psychological problems, bloating and fatigue. Is it possible that parasites or worms can cause the severe weight loss?
I have been taking wormwood for 2 months now and saw some roundworms in my stool.
Severe weight loss is one of my problems as well. And belching, nausea, psychological problems, fatigue, twitching, shortness of breath, toxic restless muscle sensation, excessive transpiration, pounding heart, etc.
A trial with 4 days of water fasting was quite remarkable actually. I had to be careful with being underweight already, but i really felt a lot was dying when i fasted. They say water fasting can be very beneficial for killing parasites. It was a horrible experience btw and I was only able to fast for 4 days, before i gave up due to extreme increase in symptoms. Lost 6 pounds, but strangely also gained them back in the 3 days after the water fast. Doctor said i looked better afterwards then i had in a long time. In hindsight the fast was too short to actually kill all of the bad guys, so a week after the fast i had lost the gains i had made. But i must have killed some of them, thats for sure.
Maybe i will do some more short water fasting in the future. Albendazole now seems to be hitting it in some way, but i doubt it will be sufficient to actually kill it all (especially if some of them are encysted)
I will also do a new trial with Giemsa blood smears and live blood analysis at different times of the day (especially at night, like 3am, 5am, 7am or something like that). Perhaps they will show up in more significant numbers that way. Ive always wondered why my nausea was so bad at 5-6am in the morning. Maybe the parasites have a night time schedule or something...
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Ok ive captured another nematode like worm in my blood:
Darkfield overview
Bright field close up of the head (for nematodes i think the small end is the head, the large end is the rear, but this seems to differ with species) The red stuff are red bloodcells, which are approx 7um in diameter. So the nematode is about 250-300um long. Just small enough to be invisible by the naked eye.
It has a lot of the same features as the previous blood worm i posted. Including the narrow channel inside the worm. This could be part of the digestive or reproductive system of the nematode.
Am i seeing these worms more now that im taking albendazole? All of the worm samples ive found so far are dead. But perhaps dead is the only time they float freely throughout the blood? Alive they could be hatching on to the inside of the blood vessels? Or hiding in tissue?
More challenge testing to come...
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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The WBC's are the greenish globs that move rapidly (well its time lapse so in reality they move really slow). The WBC's try to encapsulate the nematode but there are just too few wbc's in this live blood sample to accomplish this.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Looks very similar to what im seeing in my own blood.
She mentions the possibility of it being a variant of strongyloides. But tbh i think this is just a guessing game. There are probably lots of undiscovered pathogenic nematodes out there, causing different symptoms. But treating them seems a must for me, since a nematode caused Th2 shift will severely block your chances of getting rid of Borrelia (which requires a Th1 pro-inflammatory immune reaction )
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TNT
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posted
Here is a pretty amazing shot of eosinophils attacking a nematode (definitely looks like a time-lapse):
Im really starting to feel more and more confident this parasitic nematode link is very important in lyme disease, and often overlooked. Especially by the more mainstream LLMDs.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
hi s13, that is pretty amazing that you were able to find that organism in your blood!
Sorry if I missed this but how often do you take the albendazole? my guess is taking a long course of multiple meds is probably the best route. Have you looked into triclabendazole, fenbendazole, mebendazole, praziquantel etc? But it's great that you have found at least one med that helps you.
I think doing blood smears from different points of the day is a very good idea, some parasites have more nocturnal activity, I guess it just depends on the organism.
I'm currently on ivermectin and albenza, once a week. Treating for protomyxzoa. The herxing has been brutal, specially with the ivermectin, but now getting under control as I've started taking montelukast, must be some sort of crazy histamine action going on. I honestly can't believe how helpful the montelukast has been. I don't fully understand the mechanics of what is going on but combo of ivermectin and albenza are working well.
I'd be very curious to know what % of healthy people have parasites vs people with chronic conditions. No doubt we have coexisted with this stuff for thousands of years, and have yet to catalogue the full array of these tricky and often very well-hidden camaflouged organisms. I wonder if a weakened immune system allows parasitic infections the opportunity to springboard into worse symptomatic displays in people, especially those of us with chronic health issues. Wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple factors at work.
Good luck to you in your treatments! keep us posted
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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posted
Hey sebreg, I was amazed too. You almost never read about these things, and that is a big problem i think. I also feel these parasites could easily be missed with microscopy, if one is not actively taking parasite killers. When alive these nematodes dont seem to float around in the blood. Its only when they die is when you get a chance to observe them.
I know about the parasite protocols yes. I have taken albendazole now for 5 days, an planning to do at least 2 weeks, 2x400mg/day. Alinia was not very helpful, ivermectin seems to cause more disturbance of the parasite somehow (more weight loss)
For herbals im looking at Mimosa pudica and liposomal artemisinin, but i will try those later as well. I had some reaction before with artemisinin so maybe it could be helpful with my new eradication program.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
oh yeah, DEC, I'm very curious about, I've come across it before. Can it sometimes have weird side effects with the eyes?
Lipo artemisinin seems to be a pretty good one for me. Pyrantel seems to work too but it upsets my stomach. Haven't tried praz or alinia but I've been meaning to.
I think I'm going to keep doing the ivermectin/albenza combo for a while and see how far that takes me. I think I can knock this thing pretty far back with this combo. I may try pyrantel again down the line, and test out alinia and praz at some point to see if they cause any herx.
With my doc I'm doing the albenza once a week, I'm fine with that, if you take it everyday for a while you can start losing your hair and I'm way too vain to allow for such a possibility
Where would you order mimosa pudica from? it seems rather hard to find.
Thanks for the Rosner link, def heard a bit about him but hadn't really read much of his stuff. The link is very informative and helpful.
It sucks being such a guinea pig but when you've been sick long enough you are willing to try a lot of things!
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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posted
Added Enula to my protocol. This seems to do a lot again. Starting with ivermectin,... and enemas in a couple of weeks. But I am a bit scared this will be to much. I am already underweight
Isn't Rosner a fraud?
S13 maybe we can speak in dutch?
Posts: 2 | From Anvers | Registered: Feb 2015
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posted
Ive got the mimosa from Biopure.eu. Not sure if its effective or not.
Im not sure about the truth of Rosner's stories, but he seems to line up his parasite protocol with Klinghardt's, and he is one of the few that mentions DEC.
Anverss, enula has some good antiparasitic properties as well. So if it works for you, keep using it! Sure we can talk in dutch if you like, just PM me.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Catgirl
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Anverss, good you added Enula as it helps some people with worms. Iver has been a good med for me. Hands down though, coffee enemas have been the best at getting worms out, and now would be the best time to do them (before and after full moon).
Since you are underweight, you might try doing the enemas every other day. I do them every day now, but I managed to put some weight on eating desserts --it took more yeast killers and probiotics, but I managed to gain some weight.
As far as treating, I was underweight and treated hard core. These things are eating our food/nutrients, which may be part of the reason why some people are underweight (too many parasites).
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posted
Catgirl, very interesting about the autolysis. Another reason we don't see the critters by the time they leave.
S13, awesome microscopy pictures. Thank you so much for posting!! I think nematodes are probably a big issue for many. Filarials carried by ticks farm and harbor Bb. Filarials are easily spread by mosquito bites. I think anyone with Bb should be treat for filarials as well.
So far I still favor using pharma antiparasitics for myself. I've not herxed from them, just had measureable improvement. Often if I don't see results with a certain med, it shows itself to be effective another time. I think timing has a lot to do with it, whether we can control it or not.
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014
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posted
gz, no problem! Im happy to be able to add something to the community
Ive got another picture, showing a dead nematode in my own blood. This time with a hybrid form of darkfield and brightfield microscopy, so you get a bit of depth perception: So again, the red objects are red blood cells (just to give a size comparison). If only i could figure out what the exact species of this nematode is? Any suggestions?
Also, since microfilaria are just the larval stage of the nematode, i wonder where the adult female lives inside the body? The adults are usually much bigger. I would think the digestive tract? That would actually seem logical given my malabsorption, nausea, weight loss, belching and other GI related problems. I would hate to think the adults could be in the abdominal cavity, cause once there they can never be eradicated. Drugs just dont go there...
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Worrisome to ponder, but if we had normally functioning immune systems the worms might not be issue. Perhaps the approach with salt/c could be useful for everything unreachable.
I think filarials can be found various places in the body. If we can't reach them, hopefully we are hitting them at another point in the life cycle. I definitely have them throughout my body, I cycle back onto the meds for a couple weeks when the skin-crawling sensations resume.
I've been able to sleep since I began tx'ing parasites. The insomnia used to be horrific. I still get some sleep issues with bart/lyme, but that is completely manageable compared to what the worms were doing to me!
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posted
Well, this is what i read from wikipedia about filariasis:
quote:The recommended treatment for people outside the United States is albendazole (a broad-spectrum anthelmintic) combined with ivermectin.[4][5] A combination of diethylcarbamazine and albendazole is also effective.[4] All of these treatments are microfilaricides; they have no effect on the adult worms.
Though some sites report DEC can kill some of the adult species. But we need a way to kill all adults, otherwise the microfilaria just keep coming. And its the adults that probably cause the malnutrition by consuming vast amounts of food we eat, not the larva. But that is my interpretation.
So if regular antihelmintics dont do the job, what can we use? Salt/C? Water fasting? Are there perhaps herbs strong enough (artemisinin/mimosa/wormwood/garlic etc)?
I personally think salt/c only works on the intestine (the body is way to big and strictly regulated when it comes to NA/CL, so it will never cause osmotic shock from the bloodstream). But if the adults are located in the intestine it might just work.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
oh yes, I think I've seen some studies on this stuff. Now are we talking about lymphatic filariasis?
From what I've understood, even if you can't kill the adults, by dosing once or twice a year you can basically get and keep microfilaria levels to very low near 0 levels and really level out the disease. Which sure, you want to be rid of this thing, but this is the next best thing no?!
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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posted
The best next thing is better than nothing. But with lyme perhaps the adults can cause such a severe Th2 immune system shift, that you become unable to fight off the intracellular borrelia/bartonella/babesia. For that you really need a good Th1 response. Any helmintic infection will just prevent that imo.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
gotcha, yes this gets tricky I see. tough to figure out a good strategy when dealing with multiple pathogens, I don't know enough about the immune system responses with these illnesses, I need to read up on that as I've seen people bring it up quite often.
You doing ok on the albenzadole? how long have you been treating for lyme/etc?
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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posted
yeah im doing ok for now. Ive been treating for 2.5years now. I was healthy until summer of 2012 when i was bitten by a tick and became ill very fast (literally overnight).
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Hello, I am new. I want to ask if it is possible that my 1 year old could have gotten a parasite after being bitten by a tick? Thanks
Posts: 1 | From NC | Registered: May 2015
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posted
Hi redpiragrl. I'm sorry to hear that, is your baby exhibiting any symptoms? How long ago was she bitten? I'm certainly no expert but ticks do carry parasites. If you are worried maybe other members can suggest best course of action in terms of what kind of doctors you could visit, hopefully some llmds in your area.
S13: you've improved with treating the lyme? hopefully treating for parasites can get you to the next level if you aren't already there!
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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posted
Im hoping that as well. Recently started DEC, planning on alternating it perhaps with albendazole.
But im still not sure that will get rid of the adult nematodes. TBH i dont know where they reside in the body, but im suspecting the small intestine.
I also read that hookworm used to be treated with Epsom salt. The salt would break down the protective mucus layer in the gut, allowing other substances like Thymol to kill the worms.
So is that why Salt/C works? Does it remove the protective barrier of worms in the gut? So dont we all need to do that if we have parasites?
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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lpkayak
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posted
Up for ryan
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glm1111
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Salt puts the parasites into osmotic shock. (dehydrates them) Think of when you put salt on a worm on the sidewalk. They shrivel up.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I've been doing Salt/C for about a week now. I've been doing 1-2 teaspoons of salt and several grams of Vitamin C morning and night. It seems to be making a difference (I am dealing with a tapeworm).
I've been taking castor oil by mouth (followed by coffee) and doing castor oil enemas, on daily basis. This seems much more productive than just coffee enemas.
I seem to remember reading on this thread that it's better not to use anti-parasite herbs in combination with Salt/C. Is that correct? What is the reason for that?
Is there anything else that I should consider doing - or consider not doing - while on this Salt/C protocol?
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glm1111
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Starting with 1-2 tsps. is WAY too much. The advised starting doses are 1/4tsp sea salt and 1/4tsp of c mixed in a large glass of water, otherwise you could herx too hard and get dehydrated.
Drink extra water as well as coconut water to help balance electrolytes. Hopefully you are using SEA SALT!!. I have always used antiparasitic herbs along with salt/c as it will pack and extra punch. Again start with a low dose and work up from there.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Plain sea salt seems pretty toxic to me. I am using RealSalt from Utah.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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karenl
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S13, where did you order your DEC? Do you have a good source? Would like to order it as well.
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posted
Ive send you a PM!
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Catgirl
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posted
Wow, just passed a 13 inch worm (rope), with several of his friends! He was a thick one too (1/2 inch wide). I feel so much better when they leave.
This must be a crazy full moon coming up, I am testing positive (muscle testing) for lots of anti parasitic stuff (higher doses). Lyme herbs too. I took a ton of cats claw today.
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Strange on what you've been noticing, I've been thinking perhaps a sudden increase in my symptoms is need for a parasite treatment, even though it wasn't that long ago I finished a round.
dal123, DEC is diethylcarbamazine, an antiparasitic used to treat filarials.
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Catgirl
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Thanks gz!
Good to treat before and after full moon, although I am always working on them, as they just lay eggs and repopulate.
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Haley
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S13 did you take the DEC? How is that going?
Also, has anyone used lugols iodine for parasites?
Catgirl, are you mostly well now? I know that you have been doing the parasite thing for a while.
[ 06-01-2015, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]
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lpkayak
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Catgirl...what do you mean a ton. What is a large dose of cats claw. Thx
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posted
Yes ive taken DEC, but only for a short period. For me it didnt seem to change much, compared to ivermectin and albendazole.
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Catgirl
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Haley, no not well. I'm better in some areas but still have lyme and company. I've also used lugols but not sure it did anything for parasites.
Lp, 2000-4000 mg/day.
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Haley
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Catgirl how long have you been doing the anti-parasitics? Which symptoms have subsided? Do you notice is Lugols helps certain symptoms. I'm trying to take one drop a week and it kicks my butt completely.
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Catgirl
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I've been treating parasites for a couple of years (2 or 3). Neuro symptoms improved a lot, also sinus issues (gone), no more hay fever, and no more teeth pain (grinding).
I have much more energy now than I had before. I actually put on a few pounds this past year (good for me as I was too thin).
Iodine helps me with yeast and thyroid (muscle test) and maybe amoebas (just found this below). Unfortunately, iodine also feeds proto. I take it every few days now but it has taken a long time for me to get to this point. I also only take 3mg.
Maybe it's killing some amoebas, or check out proto, maybe that is doing it to you? Funny, I'm herxing right now and I had iodine today (lol)!
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glm1111
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;)Hope everyone is doing well! Way to go Catgirl passing that big sucker. Don't forget about using cloves for eggs. I used to put cloves and cinnamon in my coffee and it helped a lot getting rid of a ton of stuff.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Catgirl, why do you think iodine "feeds" proto? That seems very unlikely.
quote:The great advantage of iodine antiseptics is their wide scope of antimicrobial activity, killing all principal pathogens and, given enough time, even spores, which are considered to be the most difficult form of microorganisms to be inactivated by disinfectants and antiseptics.
posted
For all of you with parasites in the gut, do any of you have problems with your ileocecal valve?
Ive read that ileocecal valve problems can be triggered by intestinal parasites. And having that valve stuck open is a very bad thing.
So if you do, was there any kind of parasite treatment, or other treatment that helped the ileocecal valve to operate better?
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glm1111
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I have ileocecal valve problems. It feels like a gastroporesis being caused by the parasites bunching up as I am killing them.
Got rid of a TON of parasites/flukes/eggs early on but have smaller parasites that have made their home in my chest well as detected by a cat scan. Am getting rid of this infection little by little using salt/c. and antiparasitic herbs.
Not easy,but am making progress. Don't think their is any simple answer for this. Patience and persistence has been key.
Gael
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Catgirl
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Thanks Gael!
S13, minerals feed proto.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Tammy N.: I don't know how stool samples are tested. I just know they are almost always negative. Maybe they take a small smear and look at a small amount and perhaps nothing is visible in that smear?.
Just reading through old threads thing to catch up.
I've done fecal smears before, and what you are looking for depends if you wet mount or dry mount.
If you do the smear immediately as a wet mount, you are looking for motile forms.
In dry mounts, you use various techniques. Like an acid fast, In which you use various stains and rinsing of the slide. In one method, the background would be blue, and the organism would show up, say red, for Cryptosporidium. The staining would be uneven on the structures of the organism.
You can also search for ova (eggs) of the parasites, which is a great way to confirm parasites.
You can also do a gross examination and see certain worms, and tapeworm segments.
A negative stool test could mean, you have no parasites. Or, none were shed in that sample. My main concern is that most fecal samples are not run immediately after collection, and not repeated.
I think some labs will culture (attempt to grow) potential pathogens, or do antigen tests. I was a vet tech so I've only tested animals, which frequently come up positive.
There is a lot of stuff, undigested bits, plant matter and whatnot that look like parasites. Unless you have a large tapeworm, I'm skeptical that what a lot of you are seeing is what you think it is. But as we never deworm ourselves, perhaps they are more common than we think.
The 2 main types of intestinal parasites are helminths and protozoa. Helminths are generally visible to the naked eye in their adult stages only, whereas protozoa are not. These parasites are only visible under magnification, minimally 10x, and clearer at 40x and 100x.
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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glm1111
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Willy Burgdorfer found Filarial worms in the original ticks he dissected. Dr Eva Sapi a researcher from Conn. found them in over 40% of the ticks she dissected.
I had 20" worms, large and small eggs and flukes as well as a tape worm exit after strong antiparasitics and salt/c. The parasites pictured on www.lymephotos.com also exited from my colon, scalp and mouth.
They appeared as large as they look on the site. I guarantee that most of us are seeing parasites and are NOT delusional!
Gael
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;)Hope everyone is doing well! Way to go Catgirl passing that big sucker. Don't forget about using cloves for eggs. I used to put cloves and cinnamon in my coffee and it helped a lot getting rid of a ton of stuff.
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