posted
So I talked to a lady in Aizona that was so sick she could not leave her house for 5 years. At a point of no hope she tried a mild hyperbaric chamber for 1 hour per day. She felt no difference first 60 days and was ready to quit but persisted. 8 months later she was back to the health before lyme. Anybody try this with this level of committment. I wonder if you could combine this with photon therapy?
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
The newest success story here is from this. He did it 1 hour a day and bought his own chamber. Very interesting.
Not sure about combining it with photon's. I just started photon treatment.
Posts: 486 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2012
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Phoiph
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posted
Hello, all...
I was just about to start a new thread on mild hyperbaric, then found this one...
I believe you both are referring to my story:
I had severe neurological Lyme w/Babesia & Bartonella for 8 years...considered an antibiotic failure, and so ill I was homebound for 5 years straight.
My symptoms were extreme and relentless; too many to list here. I was told, even by LLMD's, that I needed a miracle, and there was nothing more they could do for me (I tried many, many protocols with never any improvement, just a continual spiral downward).
I eventually became so toxic and environmentally sensitive that I could do no formal treatments (except homeopathy) for 5 years before starting MILD hyperbaric treatment w/supplemental oxygen (I bought my own chamber and self-treated 1 hour daily).
I now have my life back...working again, running (I had been a runner for 17 years, pre-Lyme), traveling, etc. It has been a miraculous recovery, and it is 100% due to mHBOT (along with meticulous diet, and gradual exercise).
I believe success depends on the frequency and consistency of use...many people say they "tried hyperbaric, but it didn't work"...but if you query them, inevitably they didn't do it consistently or frequently enough...or for a long enough duration. You must be committed to this treatment to have success.
I almost made the fatal mistake of returning my chamber after 40 consecutive "dives", not feeling any improvement at that point. Fortunately, I was talked into continuing treatment, and felt the first "change" (not necessarily "improvement") after about 2 months.
It was a rocky, 2-step-forward, 1-step back road, but after several months, although I was not completely well, I was functional again, and after 1-1/2 years, I was "back"...
Now, 2 years from the beginning of treatment, I am still noticing benefits from the chamber...and truly have my life back...very active again...no medications...no restrictions...
Low (pressure) and slow WORKS...I'm living proof...
posted
May I ask what chamber you purchased? There are so many out there, what are the "best" ones?
Posts: 20 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2013
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Catgirl
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Phoiph, awesome!
Do you or did you have babs too? I vaguely remember reading that oxygen was bad for babs (not really sure about this)?
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
For those of us that don't know much about HBOT can someone please elaborate on what mild hyperbaric treatments would be as opposed to regular HBOT?
Thanks! Pam :-)
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Mild hyperbaric chambers are soft shelled like a big bag to climb into. They have lower effective dives called ATA of 1.3 versus hard chambers going much higher. People who use oxygen uses through an oxygen concentrator with a 92% purity versus hard that can be pure chamber oxygen or mask breathing pure oxygen. Big difference is ATA which can be thought of how deep under water. Mild as I understand can be used daily while chambers usually are 30 days on 30 day break. Oxyhealth is probably the largest distributor of mild hyperbaric chambers. Try searching You Tube for Mild Hyperbaric Treatment.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
So mild hyperbaric uses less pressure and less than 100% oxygen? Is that correct?
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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oxygenbabe
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posted
I use it.
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Phoiph
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Mild hyperbaric technically refers to the use of pressures at or under 1.5 ATA.
FDA approved "mild" or "soft" chambers reach 1.3 ATA (4.2PSI). The chambers can be equipped with an oxygen concentrator, which, although not sold together with a new chamber, can be purchased separately with a MD's prescription (as an off-label use). The chamber also requires a prescription.
The oxygen concentrator must be of a specific power to be used effectively with a hyperbaric chamber, but has the advantage of not needing refills of oxygen cylinders, etc.
Unlike some commercial chambers, these "mild" chambers have a continual circulation of room air going through them (via compressor), and oxygen (approximately 90%, depending on the concentrator) is fed through a tube via a port on the chamber, and is breathed through a mask. This has the advantage of keeping the internal percentage of circulating oxygen lower, which is much safer (less fire hazard) than the units which are flooded and pressurized with pure oxygen.
Studies are showing that the lower pressures are more beneficial for neurological and other conditions...which is explained in this article by Dr. Harch, who has been researching HBOT for 20+ years, and written a book called "The Oxygen Revolution":
Commerical chambers can reach higher pressures, which is necessary for other applications, (e.g., wound healing, etc.).
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poppy
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Does this cause a herxheimer reaction?
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Phoiph
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Yes, it can...I experienced flares and changes before improvements...2 steps forward, 1 step back, as I mentioned in my first post...but it is easier on the body than higher pressures for this application.
Hyperbaric raises the level of oxygen not just in your bloodstream (which can only carry so much oxygen), but throughout your tissues, lymph, plasma, etc., and is forced into places where your circulation can't reach.
Many non-beneficial organisms cannot thrive in an oxygen rich environment, and are killed off by the oxidative process. The body then has to not only clean up the resulting debris/toxins (which is helped by hyperbaric, as it supports the organs of detoxification), but it also has to ramp up its production of natural anti-oxidants as a protective measure from the oxidative process (which studies show it does).
This process is crucial and might feel like ups and downs, but the general trajectory is upward.
I also didn't (and don't) do other therapies that might interfere with this process...just consistent, ongoing, daily treatments, with scrupulous, gut and nerve healing diet, and mild, increasing exercise to move lymph and energy...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Thank you for the explanations. This sounds a bit complex...is it really safe for people to do this on their own?
Phoiph...if you don't mind me asking what chamber did you purchase?
Thanks! Pam
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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Phoiph
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I have 2 chambers; one purchased new, one used (for my cabin). They are both "Rispiros" manufactured by Oxyhealth ...you can view them at Oxyhealth.com.
The chambers are very easy to use. I have done over 750 dives without assistance.
Oxyhealth claims a perfect safety record. Oxygen concentrators (purchases separately) are designed for home use. You will need a prescription written by an MD to purchase both.
Like anything else, there are a few things to know if you're thinking about purchasing/using one...which I'll be happy to share if you are seriously looking into it...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Well no pun intented, I took the dive today and got a used one. I think it was a great price as I got the Oxyhealth Vitaris 320 with an oxygen concentrator and cooler for $7K, not cheap but either is the 17 years our family of 5 has been fighting this disease. Also getting a PEA1 next week. These are my research $ for everybody. It will take several months to know how things go.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Phoiph...Thank you so much for the information. It is good to know that you have used it for so long without any problems.
It looks like purchasing a hyperbaric chamber is pretty expensive. Unfortunately I can't afford to do it but I will keep the info for future reference.
It looks like OxyHealth has a rental program where they allow people to rent them for a monthly fee and if you decide to purchase it they will put all of your rental payments towards the purchase price which is awesome. That could be a great option for those that can afford the monthly rental fee.
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Wow that is great JCarlhelp! Definitely keep us posted on how your family does with both of those purchases.
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I wonder how much the monthly rental program is..Anybody looked into that and would care to share?
Also can you do the hyperbaric chamber and still be on meds? I just started Mepron etc for Babesia..
Posts: 30 | From Virginia | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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It has been helpful for some people who can't afford their own chamber to team up with another person or two in their area and share costs...
I have also discovered a company that specializes in loans for medical equipment...
Using both options together can bring the cost down to about $5.00/day for people
(No, I'm not a sales-rep for any company :)
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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Hyperbaric treatment increases the metabolic rate, and so can "potentiate" the effects of some medications, so this has to be taken into consideration.
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Stubman1...I am not sure what the monthly rental cost is but I did just e-mail them and asked for that information. I will pass the info along if they reply back to me.
Hopefully it will be a good price for those that might be able to afford a monthly payment.
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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Phoiph
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Last time I checked, the Rent-to-Own option for a new chamber offered by Oxyhealth consists of a down payment (can be put on a credit card), then interest-free rental payments are divided by 10 months, charged to your card monthly, and go toward the purchase of the chamber if you decide to buy. This can make the monthly payments pretty steep for many people, however, since the charges are being put on a credit card, they could technically be paid off over time.
The other option, as I mentioned, is to buy a used chamber and/or team up with someone in your area for cooperative use and shared expenses...may be less convenient, but more economical...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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oxygenbabe
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$7k for a vitaeris is great. Can add sauna if you like.
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WPinVA
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Phoiph - You mentioned you have/had babesia as well. Do you mind if I ask if you had babesia duncani and if you're "cured" of that now as well as the Lyme?
When I looked into HBOT, I read that it is not recommended for people with babesia, as the babesia is supposed to thrive in an oxygen-rich environment. Not sure if that is true, and would love to hear your take. thank you!
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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cottonbrain
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phoiph, are you affiliated in any way with the company whose name you provided?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
There is one like I bought with an oxygen concentrator on Ebay right now with a starting bid of $6.500. I think that phoiph has said a number of times she is not affiliated in any way with Oxyhealth but I guess she should answer that.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Only get oxyhealth. It is FDA approved. There have been accidents with others.
I had babesia and no problem with deep dive and mhbot. I am not sure if that is urban legend or valid.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Hsley, was it mild or deep dive
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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Phoiph
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As I mentioned, I am not a salesperson, nor do I represent any company.
I am simply trying to inform people of how I got well, and assist them in obtaining affordable and accessible mHBOT. In my opinion, this is a very powerful treatment that is totally misused, misunderstood, and underutilized.
Helping other people discover hyperbaric makes me feel like my 8 years in hell had some purpose...
In answer to the question about babesia, I have yet to find research that supports that mHBOT is contraindicated if you have babesia. I had a full blown case (as well as bartonella), and it was the ONLY thing that worked. I have no babesia symptoms, and I am on no medications.
Even if babesia were to "like" oxygen in vitro (which I have yet to find research on this), consider that things are very different within the body. Hyperbaric is unprecedented in helping the immune system to recover and function properly...which allows it to fight other infections effectively.
It is more than just chasing "bugs"...it is about putting the body/immune system back in charge...
By the way, please be careful when buying a used chamber online. There are ways to protect yourself...as in using an escrow company to hold funds until you can inspect the equipment and are satisfied. Also, there are some dishonest brokers out there who advertise as private party sellers...but there are ways to check things out. If anyone is seriously interested, they can PM me and I can help them with this.
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time to share and explain your healing with mHBOT. It is very interesting and something I am hoping to look into further.
It is always so encouraging to hear of ways that people have healed from this horrid disease. Unfortunately, not everyone get's well from the same protocol and sharing what has worked for others gives me hope.
P.S. Sorry I called you a he Posts: 486 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2012
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Phoiph
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Birdie...
You're more than welcome...:)
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Well the OxyHealth company e-mailed me back and the rental rates are extremely expensive so I doubt that would be an option for a lot of people.
Here are the rental rates that they sent to me.
Solace 210: Rent with Purchase Option (includes frame and mattress) $750 � per month $250 � home delivery $300 � return shipping and cleaning/sanitizing fee $1000 � security deposit (we cannot accept credit cards for security deposits) Example: Cost to ship out a chamber is $2300 ($750 + $250 + $300 + $1000) Security deposit will be returned 30 days after the receipt of all equipment. All rental monies and return shipping cost may be applied towards the purchase of your chamber.
Respiro 270: Rent with Purchase Option (includes frame and mattress) $1250 � per month $325 � home delivery $375 � return shipping and cleaning/sanitizing fee $2000 � security Deposit (we cannot accept credit cards for security deposits) Example: Cost to ship out a chamber is $3950 ($1250 + $325 + $375 + $2000) Security deposit will be returned 30 days after the receipt of all equipment. All rental monies and security deposit may be applied towards the purchase of your chamber.
Vitaeris 320: Rental Chamber Rent with Purchase Option $2150 � per Month $400 � home Delivery $450 � return shipping and cleaning/sanitizing fee $3000 � security deposit (we cannot accept credit cards for security deposits) Example: Cost to ship out a rental is $6000 ($2150 + $400 + $450 + $3000) Security deposit will be returned 30 days after the receipt of all equipment. All rental monies and security deposit may be applied towards the purchase of your chamber. Used chambers are typically between $15-16K.
Vitaeris 320: New Chamber Rent with Purchase Option $3000 � per month $400 � home delivery $6000 � security deposit (we cannot accept credit cards for security deposits) Example: Cost to ship out a new chamber is $9400 ($3000 + $400 + $6000) Security deposit (minus return shipping cost and cleaning/sanitizing fee of $450) will be returned 30 days after the receipt of all equipment. All rental monies and security deposit may be applied towards the purchase of your chamber.
* Please note that used chambers are rented/sold based on availability.
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I'm hearing a lot of great stories about HBOT, but when I asked my LLMD about HBOT treatment, he said, "although it can be helpful, it doesn't work well for Babesia."
I would love to know if this is true. Has anyone researched HBOT for Babesia treatment?
If so, please let me know what you've found.
I'm glad some people are finding relief! C.P.
Posts: 106 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2012
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Phoiph
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Pam...
Thanks for this information.
When I became well through hyperbaric, I started attending the local Lyme support group to spread the word and let people know of this option.
I thought it would be an easy process, but the reality is, as I mentioned in my previous post, rental costs are too steep for most people (even if the payments are interest-free, and go toward the purchase price).
I then started networking with people to help them access more affordable hyperbaric treatment. I've had luck assisting people in finding used chambers (many from private party sales), and people can either get financing (there are companies that provide loans for medical equipment), and/or share the cost/use cooperatively with someone that lives in their area.
This may not be the most convenient way of doing things, but I'm finding that people actually appreciate the support of having someone else to share costs & discuss their treatment with. And, if it is the only way someone can access treatment, I believe it is worth it if it means a chance to get their lives back.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that these chambers are an investment...they have a resale value, so much of the cost can be recouped if one decides to sell.
C.P...Please read my previous post regarding Babesia (5 messages up)...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Have you heard of this site? If you haven't, can you look into it and see if it is legit?
I am seriously considering a chamber because I would like to see some progress in my treatment but more importantly, just want to get some relief from my symptoms.
I don't understand much about what is needed etc. Can you suggest some sites where I could get educated?
Thanks for help.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Phoiph
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Hi Soccermama...
I have looked on this site, but have no experience with this vendor.
Since you are at the point where you're seriously considering this, just private message me, and we can go into more detail about what might suit you best, as there are several factors to consider, and it is a decision based on individual needs/circumstances...
I'm more than happy to help you!
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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Soccermama...
I just tried to respond to your private email, but your mailbox is full and I can't send it...
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CD57
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quote:Originally posted by CD57: Up. Phoiph I just PMed you.....I did 40 dives at 2.4 ATA at a clinic, it helped me to feel better during that time and a few weeks after, but did not help at all with my disease it seems. I?wonder if mHBOT may be different>
My LLMD also said it was contra-indicated with babesia, but also bartonella loves oxygen, or we should say, these two infections use oxygen. It's borrelia that hates it, and in theory that means oxygenating the body would make it unhospitable for borrelia. However.....what does it do for the other two pathogens, who hang out in the RBCs and endothelial tissue where the oxygen is?
Phoiph
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posted
CD57...
I replied to your PM on 8/12...did you get it?
In answer to this question...I am repeating what I stated in a previous post above:
Regarding babesia, I have yet to find actual research that supports that mHBOT is contraindicated if you have babesia. I had a full blown case (as well as bartonella), and it was the ONLY thing that worked. I have no babesia symptoms, and I am on no medications.
Even if babesia were to "like" oxygen in vitro, consider that things are very different within the body. Hyperbaric is unprecedented in helping the immune system to recover and function properly...which allows it to fight other infections effectively.
Babesia alone, without the immune suppressing influences of Lyme disease, is rarely an issue (as long as one has a spleen)...it only becomes a problem when the immune system is compromised.
It is more than just chasing "bugs"...it is about putting the body/immune system back in charge...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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dbpei
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Phoiph, thank you for sharing this info to help others. So it sounds like the oxygen, by getting into your tissues and blood stream, helps to strengthen and modulate the immune system.
Before getting well, do you know if you had any of the problems that often go along with lyme, such as heavy metal toxicity, parasites, chronic viruses, and other infections? I would be curious to know the effect of the oxygen treatment on any of these things.
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Phoiph
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dbpei...
I had the litany of chronic viruses/conditions that rear their ugly heads when one's immune system is compromised, including high EB, HHV6, mycoplasma titers, etc.
I also had severe dysbiosis and inflammation of the gut...and gastritis, with lots of undesirable microbes showing up in samples. Some tests suggested parasites, but I'm not sure how accurate they were. It is probably safe to assume that in the condition my immune system was in, I was a "host" to just about anything that cared to take up residence.
Although I didn't have specific testing on heavy metals, I suspect I have high mercury levels because I have had many fillings since childhood.
At some point, I stopped testing for things, as it was always bad news, and there was really nothing I could do about the worsening results, as I couldn't tolerate treatments, supplements, medications, or procedures anymore...(none of which had helped me previously anyway).
My opinion is that many of these viruses, parasites, and toxic conditions are coexisting in our bodies all the time...and when we are "well", our functioning immune system is able to keep things in balance. However, since we live in a very toxic environment...our toxic load may be high to begin with, putting stress on the system just by our everyday living habits. Then, when something, like Lyme, tips the scales over the edge, the immune system can't keep up, and then, like a dam breaking loose, all of the other undesirables have a chance to flourish...
So...what do we do? We usually keep trying to kill the bugs and relieve symptoms...by ingesting MORE toxic substances, ignoring the fact that our immune and other body systems need nourishment, support and repair and a reduction of toxins to be able to gain the upper hand again...or how could any state of health be attained or maintained?
The beauty of hyperbaric is that it does both...it creates an environment that is toxic to the undesirables, but restorative to the system...
It is also just as important, in my opinion, to combine consistent hyperbaric with a gut/nerve healing/rebuilding diet, and to start gentle movement/exercise and increasing as able, to help help move energy through the body. In other words, bringing the good stuff in, and helping the undesirable stuff to come out gently but effectively, as the body can handle it. These 3 things take commitment and patience...as results may not be felt immediately, even if the process is improving things below the surface...
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dbpei
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It's a good thing you didn't give up on this! Thanks again for this valuable information. I wish it was more affordable. If I decide to try this at some point, I will PM you - as you seem to be very knowledgeable about this...
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Phoiph
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Sounds good, dbpei...
I have helped people find creative ways of financing chambers, new or used, and/or pairing up with other people who want to co-own or share costs...so there are options...(again, even though I may sound like it, I'm not a salesperson, nor do I represent any company...just glad to be alive and well and pass on what I've learned...it makes me feel as if my ordeal may have had some "purpose" after all...:)
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I was thinking about getting or trying a hyperbaric chamber and stumbled on to this website..
"www.hyperbarics.info"
Now I am somewhat apprehensive.. I really don't need my ear drums blown up. Plus my LLMD said his chamber could go up to 1.5 which seems like a no no if you believe what the aforementioned web site says..
Posts: 30 | From Virginia | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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Stubman1...
As I mentioned above in this thread, there are caveats about buying and using a chamber and oxygen, just like any other drug or medical device.
There are proper ways to use the equipment, and ways to protect yourself when buying a chamber from a private party, etc.
I don't know what kind of chamber your LLMD has, but it may be designed for clinical use that is approved to go up to 1.5 ATA (and possibly beyond). Although 1.5 ATA is still considered to be "mild" hyperbaric, soft chambers designed for home use are only approved to only go up to 1.3 ATA.
I am more than happy to help you with your questions/concerns/options if you are seriously considering hyperbaric...you can PM me if you like...
Posts: 1885 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I have a dear friend of about 20 years who sells the soft shell Oxyhealth chambers. Lance is also like a clearing house of Lyme info. He lives in the Southeast and gave me a good deal. and being a lady, I lucked out that a friend of his came out with an oxygen concentrator & set the whole thing up for me! Honestly I cannot comment on results as I am recommitting cuz I terribly procrastinate on using it.
Here is my friend's contact info. I'm not a selleer, get no referral $, etc.
'Do not go where the path may lead; go where there is no path and leave a trail.' Emerson Posts: 45 | From Georgia | Registered: May 2012
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I have a Respiro, as the Vaetaris seemed a lot more to me, the Respiro is smaller on the inside, but big enough to bring my laptop into and watch online stuff. BTW the ear pressure thing is easy- you just sawllow like you're going underwater. the relative pressure with the softshell "Pods" is like going as deep as the deep end of a pool.
-------------------- Lyme: 1991 DXed: 2008
'Do not go where the path may lead; go where there is no path and leave a trail.' Emerson Posts: 45 | From Georgia | Registered: May 2012
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CD57
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posted
I wanted to bring something up here.....I was at high altitude again this past week with my family (I live at sea level and went to 6500 ft). I instantly felt better at altitude, almost well in fact. This is VERY bizarre and is the opposite of what my doc said to expect.
I'm hoping Phoiph will drop by here to comment but I had to wonder....since bartonella is my biggest issue, and it is aerobic/oxygen loving....could it have been starved out with lower oxygen in the air last week?
It is enough to make me want to try moving to altitude and seeing what happens. But this reaction would seem that oxygen is CONTRAINDICATED in my situation,
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Phoiph
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CD57...
I don't believe that your feeling an instant improvement at altitude has anything to do with "bartonella being starved out" due to less oxygen.
It is more likely, in my opinion, that other factors might be at play...
1. The barometric pressure changes (lowers) as you increase altitude...some people feel better at different barometric pressures, at least initially.
2. I have read that altitude can have an effect on thyroid function...possibly increasing T-4 levels, and some report even having to adjust thyroid medication at altitude.
***Remember though, if you're considering doing hyperbaric treatment for Lyme, you MUST take your altitude into consideration...
The higher in elevation you go, the more pressure is required in the hyperbaric chamber (to compensate for the lower atmospheric pressure) to achieve the same result...and depending on the elevation, this could put a mild chamber in the "useless" range for treating Lyme, as it will not take you to a high enough pressure to be therapeutic...
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CD57
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Sorry about the mutiple weird posts, I tried to delete and couldn't.
yes, I have read that too...but have also heard that it takes several weeks for your body to start making extra T3 and the extra pint of blood at altitude...so that couldn't be it...maybe barometric pressure for sure.
So, Phoiph, the 1.3 ATA that you used....was that when you were living in AZ (low elevation)?
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Phoiph
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The air is generally drier at higher altitudes also; some people report more energy when there's less humidity.
My elevation is about 3500ft.
I know of someone who treated at about 6,000 ft. at 1.3ATA with supplemental 02 without success; and by doing the math, this would make sense. He plans to try again when moving to near sea level in CA.
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CD57
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Sorry about the mutiple weird posts, I tried to delete and couldn't.
yes, I have read that too...but have also heard that it takes several weeks for your body to start making extra T3 and the extra pint of blood at altitude...so that couldn't be it...maybe barometric pressure for sure.
So, Phoiph, the 1.3 ATA that you used....was that when you were living in AZ (low elevation)?
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Phoiph
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The air is generally drier at higher altitudes also; some people report more energy when there's less humidity.
My elevation is about 3500ft.
I know of someone who treated at about 6,000 ft. at 1.3ATA with supplemental 02 without success; and by doing the math, this would make sense. He plans to try again when moving to near sea level in CA.
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Wow! I am so incredibly impressed by your recovery! So I believe you had depersonalization and derealization (I think I had read in one of your other posts?) I believe I have the same thing currently-things look strange, cars move too quickly, I cannot follow movement or it almost leaves a trail or something behind, I feel out of body, my visual focus is strange-almost like it is zooming in and out of the background and object closest to me if that makes sense). Did you have these things? They are 24/7 for me -though these symptoms have gotten better slowlyyyy (they are very troublesome and still scary today). I always worry they will not continue to get better and my improvements have actually been staggered for quite awhile. That is when I thought I actually may have mold toxicity poisoning (I first became sick in an extremely moldy building I had been living in for a month. I fainted and then all of my symptoms appeared). Do you think it is possible you also have mold toxicity? I wonder...
Also can I ask you what your diet looked like? Do you still keep this diet today? No caffeine, alcohol, sugar (do you eat fruit sugar?), gluten? My diet is very good (in my opinion) though I think it can be better. Are you able to tolerate some of the foods you took out of your diet while you were recovering currently?
Would to hear more about you....
And I cannot thank you enough for coming back to report on your success. You didn't have to do it. And yet you are here, giving us hope.
I am so thankful~
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Phoiph
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Thank YOU, for the feedback, lemongirl...knowing that I might be helping somebody keeps me checking the forums...
I don't believe I went through 8 years of hell and was given my life back to just go on my merry way (although it has crossed my mind to run and never look back :) ...I believe I was granted wellness for a reason, and with that gift goes a responsibility to share my experience in hopes it will be of benefit (it is actually very rewarding)...
Yes, I had severe depersonalization and derealization also...nothing was familiar anymore, everything was distorted perceptually, and it felt like I was perpetually trapped between panes of foggy glass. It was an extremely disturbing way to try to exist, and was only a fraction of what I was experiencing at the time.
All of those symptoms have disappeared completely.
I believe that ultimately, whether or not I had mold toxicity in addition to Lyme and co-infections is a moot point, as hyperbaric treats the common denominators of many illnesses, including "toxic encephalopathies". That is the beauty of it...
In other words, hyperbaric treats hypoperfusion, inflammation, immune dysfunction, supports detoxification, improves mitochondrial function, destroys pathogens, heals neural tissue, promotes angiogenesis, releases stem cells (shall I go on?)...issues common to many diseases...this is why it is so effective for complex conditions involving multiple systems.
Regarding diet...I feel it is a crucial part of recovery and lifestyle...(along with hyperbaric and gradually increasing movement/exercise). When I was really ill, I had so many sensitivities, and my gut was so compromised, I was only able to tolerate about 5 foods for several years. I believe that bone broths were crucial in keeping me alive, and I continue to make and freeze soup made with bone broth and eat it frequently...almost daily. I do not eat gluten, and avoid most grains, but will eat quinoa, for example, on occasion. I eat lots of good protein and fats, grass fed beef, oily fish, eggs avocados, leafy vegetables, fruits, goat's milk dairy in moderation, etc. I recommend whole foods, nothing pre-prepared, NO microwave (destroys enzymes and nutrients)...
I can send you more on diet(or anything else that would be helpful)if you would like to PM me...
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CD57
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I notice that LymeMD is using mHBOT and reporting good results. He says that patients may have to buy their own chambers.
Would the 1.3 ATA not work at altitude then? Would you have to go deeper?
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CD57
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I notice that LymeMD is using mHBOT and reporting good results. He says that patients may have to buy their own chambers.
Would the 1.3 ATA not work at altitude then? Would you have to go deeper?
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CD57
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I notice that LymeMD is using mHBOT and reporting good results. He says that patients may have to buy their own chambers.
Would the 1.3 ATA not work at altitude then? Would you have to go deeper?
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Phoiph
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Hi CD57...
I'm not completely sure I understand the question...so if I don't answer it, please clarify...
I believe LymeMD's blog comment about patients possibly needing to buy their own chambers is in response to my previous post in his blog that emphasizes the need for frequent and consistent treatments over time (which isn't always practical in a clinical setting due to cost and/or logistics).
So, if you're asking if the 1.3 ATA pressure that is provided by a home chamber is sufficient pressure to treat Lyme, the answer, in my opinion and experience is yes, as long as you don't live at high altitudes. At high altitudes, you would have to increase pressure to achieve the same result, and at this time, home chambers are only approved by the FDA to reach a pressure of 1.3 ATA.
In other words, in my opinion, at high altitudes, you would have to seek treatment in a chamber that reaches higher pressures to treat Lyme...
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posted
Hi all. I've been a lurker for a long time. I am in the process of getting a Mild chamber. I am actually a patient of LymeMD and he suggested I purchase one. I've been in treatment for Lyme and Babesia since 2008. I've suffered from pain, fatigue and chronic daily headaches for over 20 years. I recently switched to LymdMD after 4 years of failed antibiotic, herbal therapies. I felt like I needed a change and what I was currently doing wasn't working. I did complete 20 dives in a hard chamber and felt a bit better, but due to costs I didn't continue. For the $3500 I paid, I could have almost purchased a mild unit. Anyways... I just wanted to say hi and I'm hoping to post my own story of hope from doing mild dives.
-------------------- Hi all, I was diagnosed with Lyme in 2008. Co-infections: Babesia & Bartonella. Currently treating Babs with Infuserve Cryptolepis and Lyme with mHBOT. Posts: 16 | From VA | Registered: Aug 2013
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posted
Tanya, Can you give us any information as to what LymeMD is experiencing with his patients using mild HBOT.
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posted
I have an appointment on Thursday, the 10th. I'll ask him then. Last time I was there he said many of his patients felt much better.
-------------------- Hi all, I was diagnosed with Lyme in 2008. Co-infections: Babesia & Bartonella. Currently treating Babs with Infuserve Cryptolepis and Lyme with mHBOT. Posts: 16 | From VA | Registered: Aug 2013
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TNT
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Phoiph, do/did you have PR? Or, do you know if HBOT works for those with PR?
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Phoiph
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Hello TNT...
I have not been tested for PR; I stopped testing for things a couple years ago when I started to improve with hyperbaric, and testing for that parasite was not common at the time.
I do have theories about PR and hyperbaric, however.
PR is reportedly a Babesia/malaria-like protozoan organism that thrives in oxygen-rich blood cells, which may intuitively cause one to suspect that oxygen therapy would promote growth (as many people suspect is the case with Babesia). I do not agree, however, and this is why:
***Hyperbaric oxygen therapy promotes free radicals (i.e., oxidative stress, reactive oxygen species [ROS], etc.) which are damaging to protozoa (fortunately, studies show the body protects itself from this damage through increased production of natural antioxidants).
Here is a quote from a study of the effects of ROS on Babesia in dogs from a veterinarian journal:
"...Many parasites including protozoa are sensitive to oxidative stress. Sensitivity to oxidative stress has been reported in malaria (Rockett et al., 1991), hepatozoonosis (Kiral et al., 2005), tropical theileriosis (Visser et al., 1995), and babesiosis (Stich et al., 1998). Reactive oxygen species (ROS) and Reactive Nitrogen Species (RNS) are powerful oxidants and nitrating species that can inactivate enzymes and initiate the process of lipid peroxidation and nitration, which leads to radical chain reactions that further damage membranes, nucleic acids and proteins (Muller et al., 2003). These processes may ultimately lead to the killing of parasitic organisms (Rockett et al., 1991; Kiral et al., 2005.)..."
***PR reportedly requires iron to thrive, and ROS disrupts the availability of iron to pathogenic organisms
***PR reportedly decreases blood flow and causes hypoperfusion; hyperbaric reduces hypoperfusion, inflammation, and promotes angiogenesis (growth of new blood vessels)
***PR reportedly competes with the body for oxygen, causing fatigue and impaired metabolic activity; hyperbaric improves oxygenation within cells, tissues, fluids, etc.
***PR reportedly creates biofilm; hyperbaric is known to destroy biofilm (this is one of the ways it assists in wound healing)
***Hyperbaric increases efficiency of immune function and detoxification, as well as promoting the release of stem cells, allowing the body to deal with pathogenic organisms as it was meant to do...
I believe that one needs to get out of the mind set of "chasing bugs"...(because there are ALWAYS bugs!)...and instead focus on what will assist the immune system in gaining the upper hand...once the immune system is in charge again, many of these pathogens become a "non-issue"...
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posted
Hi Phoiph, I want to thank you for sharing your experience. My homeopathic doctor took classes with Dr K. He told me we can't chase around killing all of the bugs. We need to build the immune system. He uses PEMF, homeopathic, and acupuncture. On my own also done infrared and colonics which really helped for me. So last year I was with s top notch LLMD. Heavy duty protoco. Mepron, zithromax, bacrtim, rotated art and crypto. Then suddenly started to get chronic kidney infections. I did not have time for that. Somebody in one of my support groups referred to homeopathic doc, which turned things around for me
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TNT
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Thanks, Phoiph, I really appreciate your input.
Tanya R, I would be very interested in what your doc has to share concerning HBOT and PR.
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posted
Phoiph, I REALLY want to thank you for sticking around here to share your experience with mhbot. It really helps those of us who are struggling to read about what has helped others in this terrible journey. I have to admit that on my worst days I log on just to read and re-read what you write as a way to stay positive and keep fighting.
I was bitten by a tick at the age of 4 (nurse sent me away saying it was a spider bite)...and I am now 26 and have been pretty much bedridden for the past six years. I didn't even get to complete college =(
I have been treating for the past two years (Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, etc.) with oral and IV meds but have yet to see much improvement.
I have started regular HBOT sessions 5 days a week for 90 minutes at 2.4 ATA and will continue for at least a total of 120 dives. Then I plan on purchasing a mild hyperbaric chamber to continue daily treatment.
It is still much too early in my treatment to really notice much improvement (and I am currently herxing so I can't think very clearly right now..sorry if this message is all over the place)but to anyone out there wondering if I have experienced any benefit in this short amount of time (I am going to my 13th dive later today) I want to let you know that I experienced almost immediate relief in pain (I have had severe daily muscle, joint, bone pain especially in the hips and spine for years). From a scale of 1-10 (10 being the worst pain) I would rate my pain at a 2-3 now.
Hope to update in the future with more improvements... and once again, thank you to Phoiph and everyone else in this community for being so encouraging.
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CD57
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Phoiph I would also be interested in anything you might have to say about bartonella, as it also likes oxygen.
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CD57
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Phoiph I would also be interested in anything you might have to say about bartonella, as it also likes oxygen.
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Phoiph
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Hi spinning122...
Thank you very much for the comments. I promised myself that if I got well, I would do whatever I could to help people get out of this hell-hole...and am now on a mission...
I know exactly what you mean about needing daily reassurance...I was the same way, but it was almost impossible to find. This is why I keep posting...people need to know there IS a way out of this nightmare.
I am really glad you are doing hyperbaric...good for you!
I do have a concern about the high pressure you are using, however. Please read this article by Dr. Paul Harch (who has been studying hyperbaric for over 20 years), discussing how studies show that more pressure is not necessarily better for neurological and many chronic conditions. It may give you another perspective:
The hyperbaric practitioners I know are also using this mild pressure (1.5 ATA) protocol. (Dr. Harch also has a website: HBOT.com, and a book entitled "The Oxygen Revolution", which includes compelling SPECT scan results...).
I would really like to discuss this more with you...I tried to private message you, but I think you may have that option turned off...
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Phoiph
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CD-57...
As you know from our conversations, I had severe bartonella (and Babesia) for 8 years, and was unable to treat with any mediations or nutriceuticals for over 5 years prior to mHBOT. I am now well and on no medications.
As I have mentioned in previous posts, in my opinion, it is not about "chasing bugs", it is about allowing the immune system to come back "online" so it can handle these infections.
Hyperbaric not only provides an inhospitable environment for these organisms, it supports the immune system so it can start doing its job again, releases stem cells, rebuilds neural tissue, detoxifies...I could go on...
When oxygen is administered under pressure, it reacts differently in the body than you may think. It generates "free radicals", or "reactive oxygen species (ROS)", which fight infections. Our bodies also do this naturally in response to infection, if the immune system is working properly. The body also produces natural "antioxidants" to prevent damage to our own cells from this process.
So, with hyperbaric, even if Bartonella were to "like" oxygen in vitro, the hyperbaric oxygenation process works very differently...it does not provide more oxygen (fuel) to these organisms, it actually creates an inhospitable environment for them, while supporting the immune system and helping the body to heal in the process...
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CD57
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Phoiph, here is something I wonder.
As you know I did 40 HBOT dives at 2.4 ATA, what the llmds were ordering per Dr B trials. I felt pretty good whilst doing them but gains were lost when stopped.
Do you think you could quit doing them daily now and be fine? I am wondering if it's a long term/life thing or if people stop.
Or maybe just thinking too much. I am still strongly considering this therapy but as you know it's a huge commitment requiring family members to be on board. Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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