Phoiph
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posted
Digby...:)
I believe he meant 45 contiguous minutes...but of course there are some people who still experience benefit from less time, especially when they're ramping up slowly.
I also think Figures 1 and 2 in this study are interesting. Figure 1 compares ROS (oxidant) production after 1 hour of hyperbaric at 1.4 ATA and 2.5 ATA.
Figure 2 shows the lasting effects of endogenous scavenger/antioxidant production after 1 hour of 1.4 ATA over time (which far exceeds the duration of oxidant levels as is explained in the text):
posted
kgg...just to be clear it hasn't resolved, but the dive is no longer making it temporarily worse.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Phoiph...The comment that the increased levels of ROS can last up to 48 hours is confusing to me. I think I read elsewhere that the increased endogenous antioxidants only lasted a few hours. I'm not sure how to translate that into an actionable treatment protocol. Should we dive every other day? Would it help to take antioxidants on the day off to offset potential ROS damage? Am I missing something here?
FWIW, none of this wandering around in the weeds changes the fact that 1 hour every day for 2 years absolutely changed my health status for the better by a huge factor.
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Phoiph
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Digby...no worries about the protocol.
The endogenous antioxidant response far outlives and outweighs the temporary ROS (oxident) increase. (And let"s not forget that increased ROS is necessary and plays an important role.)
Here's a quote from the article we're referencing:
"...The increase in ROS and antioxidants after HBOT was also described in the study by Bosco et al. They observed that these parameters remained elevated during the 20 daily sessions of HBOT conducted at the same pressures. At 1.5 ATA, ROS levels remained comparable between the two pressures until day 7 and returned to normal after completing the 20 sessions, while they continued to be elevated at 2.5 ATA. This was accompanied by an increase in antioxidant compounds with the same kinetics at both pressures, even up to one month after completing the treatment, indicating a shift in the redox balance toward the reduced state [23]. This allows us to conclude that at 1.5 ATA, there is a clear antioxidant effect that predominates over oxidative stress, which remains elevated one month after completing the 20 sessions tested..."
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posted
Well, that is the opposite of what I had taken away. I guess I need to start taking notes when I read these studies. Thanks Phoiph!
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Phoiph
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Digby...it was confusing!
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-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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posted
More reasons to keep diving...
Study shows HBOT lengthens "telomeres" (protective "caps" on chromosomes that shorten with age) and assists in clearance of "senescent" cells (a.k.a. "zombie" cells that have stopped dividing but can cause disease):
posted
Would 10 sessions of a hyperbaric chamber ($2000 at our local treatment center) even make a difference ? I know there are a lot of factors but is that a waste of time?
posted
Clint...FWIW, Years ago I did 20 dives in a high pressure chamber at 2.0 ata and filled with 100% O2 and had no positive results, only massive headaches after each dive.
Mild HBO on the other hand helped immensely but only after daily dives for ~ 6 months.
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Phoiph
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quote:Originally posted by Clint31: Would 10 sessions of a hyperbaric chamber ($2000 at our local treatment center) even make a difference ? I know there are a lot of factors but is that a waste of time?
Hi Clint,
Please don't believe anyone who claims lasting results for chronic Lyme in 10 sessions.
I just replied to your PM. Let's talk this over in more detail so you can be better informed moving forward.
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posted
Has anyone had a horrible feeling..like a bad panic attack coming on? Super weak, shaky, heart pounds and skips beats.I used to get this a few years ago but now that I’ve been doing the chamber since mid October it seems to be happening almost everyday, usually late afternoon /night. I’m not sure if this is a POTS issue-like an adrenaline dump. I’m struggling a lot because it’s the worst feeling I’ve ever had and I don’t know how to stop it.
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posted
I take Pharma GABA for anxiety issues. It calms them down pretty quickly without having to use Rx drugs.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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posted
Determined,
Are you on thyroid (or other) meds/supplements?
If so, many times dosages need to be re-evaluated (and possibly reduced) once someone has done mHBOT for awhile.
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kgg
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posted
Agree with Phoiph. When I read your post, thyroid was the first thing that came to mind. My dosing of levothyroxine went from 125mcg to 88mcg. And I had to eliminate my afternoon liothyronine (T3) dose.
In the meantime, I have found that Skullcap tincture helps some. Not totally but some when feeling like that.
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Phoiph and Kgg, Thank you for the replies. I do take Armour Thyroid but I had it checked and it’s actually bordering on too high of TSH because I’ve only been taking it half as much since my PCP warned that I might need to lower it due to my carnivore diet. I did have a time where it went too low (hyperthyroid) and it felt exactly like this. However this time it seems related to both my neck stiffness/flu like feelings. It could also be related to chamber bc it’s almost always later after I’ve been in there, maybe like a detox reaction. It’s so frustrating and scary. I never expected old symptoms to become my worst ones.
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Phoiph
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Old symptoms can definitely resurface (usually less intensely and for a much shorter duration) as you're traversing the layers of healing with mHBOT.
That said, this still sounds like an imbalance to me. You mentioned that you "felt exactly like this" before when your thyroid was out of balance. Maybe it would be worthwhile to test again, since you have made some dosage changes.
(Also, do make sure you eat a little protein and hydrate before going in the chamber, as it can lower your blood sugar.)
Hopefully kgg will reply again, as she is much more thyroid-knowledgeable.
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kgg
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I agree that checking your thyroid one more time might be in order. It also could be a low blood sugar as Phoiph suggests. I find I have to make sure I eat before I dive. I do not get in on an empty stomach.
I am not sure about it being detox. I think of detox reactions feeling more like a hangover than specific symptoms like you are experiencing.
Sadly, old symptoms do resurface as we heal. Sometimes it takes me by surprise because I had forgotten about the symptom until it happens again.
Since you are aware of POTS, are you staying hydrated? Are you using electrolytes with your water? Especially sodium? As you know, dehydration for someone with POTS would make you feel like that.
Is this occurring on days you don't dive?
Sorry for more questions.
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posted
Phoiph, That is a good idea to recheck the thyroid. I will also be sure to eat before I go in the chamber, as I never considered blood sugar changing due to the chamber. I will try to be patient and track how it’s going as time goes on.
Kgg, I didn’t consider eating before the chamber, I will definitely give that a try. A lot of times I do have that hangover type feeling as well. I guess the only thing I can do is keep making good choices and hope it gives me long term relief.
Yes I’ve been trying to do more electrolytes (I make my own with potassium, salt, and magnesium do to strict diet.I dive everyday unless I am congested so I haven’t noticed a difference. However thinking back I did have a week where I had strep throat and I didn’t have this feeling at all…so that makes me wonder if my immune system was too occupied with the bacteria to cause my usual autoimmune issues.
Posts: 18 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Kaibyrd: I take Pharma GABA for anxiety issues. It calms them down pretty quickly without having to use Rx drugs.
Thank you for the reply Kaibyrd. Is that Gabapentin?
No, Gabapentin is a very strong and in my opinion dangerous Rx drug. GABA (Gamma-aminobutyric acid) is a natural relaxation supplement , Pharma GABA is the best form as far as I can research on it. I get it from Amazon or iHerb dot com.
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kgg
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Determinedtobeatthis, (I still love that name!)
The only other thing I can suggest is until it clears, modify your dive routine. I know when the road got bumpy I would take a day or two off, until I was back to my "normal". Or consider shortening the dive to see if it is tolerated better. That way you maintain consistent diving, until this passes. Which I truly think it will.
I hope it resolves soon for you.
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Determinedtobeatthis: Phoiph and Kgg, Thank you for the replies. I do take Armour Thyroid but I had it checked and it’s actually bordering on too high of TSH because I’ve only been taking it half as much since my PCP warned that I might need to lower it due to my carnivore diet. I did have a time where it went too low (hyperthyroid) and it felt exactly like this. However this time it seems related to both my neck stiffness/flu like feelings. It could also be related to chamber bc it’s almost always later after I’ve been in there, maybe like a detox reaction. It’s so frustrating and scary. I never expected old symptoms to become my worst ones.
You may be getting a double whammy by doing mHBOT and carnivore. Try a supplement of some sort for the anxiety and if need be, add some carbs to reduce the possible oxalate dumping that could be causing other issues. We’re all so different so we have to keep trying different things. I’m constantly stalking carnivore groups to see what may be causing my issues and trying different things. How long have you been carnivore?
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Determinedtobeatthis: Phoiph and Kgg, Thank you for the replies. I do take Armour Thyroid but I had it checked and it’s actually bordering on too high of TSH because I’ve only been taking it half as much since my PCP warned that I might need to lower it due to my carnivore diet. I did have a time where it went too low (hyperthyroid) and it felt exactly like this. However this time it seems related to both my neck stiffness/flu like feelings. It could also be related to chamber bc it’s almost always later after I’ve been in there, maybe like a detox reaction. It’s so frustrating and scary. I never expected old symptoms to become my worst ones.
You may be getting a double whammy by doing mHBOT and carnivore. Try a supplement of some sort for the anxiety and if need be, add some carbs to reduce the possible oxalate dumping that could be causing other issues. We’re all so different so we have to keep trying different things. I’m constantly stalking carnivore groups to see what may be causing my issues and trying different things. How long have you been carnivore?
KB,
Ok thank you for the explanation, I thought pharma meant pharmaceutical. I will give that a try. I started carnivore right after Halloween, however did eat some things for the holidays/daughters birthday so it’s more like 9-10 weeks without cheating. I am doing it for the SIBO, otherwise I would opt for keto. I did try keto but didn’t help my digestion. Have you been seeing any progress on carnivore?
Posts: 18 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by kgg: Determinedtobeatthis, (I still love that name!)
The only other thing I can suggest is until it clears, modify your dive routine. I know when the road got bumpy I would take a day or two off, until I was back to my "normal". Or consider shortening the dive to see if it is tolerated better. That way you maintain consistent diving, until this passes. Which I truly think it will.
I hope it resolves soon for you.
Kgg,
Thank you very much, I always appreciate all the support. It helps so much to be able to vent here and hear others opinions Posts: 18 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
On another note, is it normal for the chamber PSI to drop slightly over the course of the dive after getting up to full pressure? Or is it supposed to stay at exactly the same number (on the barometer iPhone app) as right when getting up to full pressure?
Posts: 18 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Determinedtobeatthis: Phoiph and Kgg, Thank you for the replies. I do take Armour Thyroid but I had it checked and it’s actually bordering on too high of TSH because I’ve only been taking it half as much since my PCP warned that I might need to lower it due to my carnivore diet. I did have a time where it went too low (hyperthyroid) and it felt exactly like this. However this time it seems related to both my neck stiffness/flu like feelings. It could also be related to chamber bc it’s almost always later after I’ve been in there, maybe like a detox reaction. It’s so frustrating and scary. I never expected old symptoms to become my worst ones.
You may be getting a double whammy by doing mHBOT and carnivore. Try a supplement of some sort for the anxiety and if need be, add some carbs to reduce the possible oxalate dumping that could be causing other issues. We’re all so different so we have to keep trying different things. I’m constantly stalking carnivore groups to see what may be causing my issues and trying different things. How long have you been carnivore?
KB,
Ok thank you for the explanation, I thought pharma meant pharmaceutical. I will give that a try. I started carnivore right after Halloween, however did eat some things for the holidays/daughters birthday so it’s more like 9-10 weeks without cheating. I am doing it for the SIBO, otherwise I would opt for keto. I did try keto but didn’t help my digestion. Have you been seeing any progress on carnivore?
I did when I first started this way of eating after 3 months. I slept better and had more energy as well as better balance but then like you, Christmas came along and I fell off the wagon. I still try to stay on carnivore for the vast majority of the time but I think the vacations or just dinners out with friends occurs often enough to keep me away from that first success.
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Phoiph
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Determinedtobeatthis: On another note, is it normal for the chamber PSI to drop slightly over the course of the dive after getting up to full pressure? Or is it supposed to stay at exactly the same number (on the barometer iPhone app) as right when getting up to full pressure?
Determined...
Drop slightly by how much over the course of the dive (i.e., from what reading to what reading)?
What does your actual pressure gauge (not phone app) read throughout the dive?
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Phoiph
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posted
Just a follow up FYI on the previous post...
"Determined" contacted the manufacturer of her chamber (Summit to Sea) who reassured her that gauge readings can vary slightly, and as long as her chamber valves were releasing air, it was maintaining full pressure.
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posted
Its been a while since i lasted posted here i guess. And it has been a long journey since i got my first mild hyperbaric chamber, almost 13 years ago. I have been working hard on my health these years and mhbot continues to be an important therapy that i keep using.
After so many years however my old and trusty Summit To Sea chamber is starting to show signs of wear, so it was time to replace it. Ive been doing a lot of traveling with it, and folding it up on a daily basis has not been kind to it. The material is wearing thin in many places, and the internal zipper is becoming more and more difficult to operate. To be fair, i must have done well over 3000 sessions in all those years.
Trying to find something new here in Europe that is affordable and meets my requirements has been pretty much impossible. So i went a slightly different route this time and contacted Oxyrevo. Bit of a gamble, i know, but so far everything is going really great. Sales support has been awesome - in proper english, yes... - and they were able to design, manufacture and ship me a custom sized mhbot chamber in just over 4 weeks.
I wasn't expecting it, but this thing is even higher quality than my previous Summit to Sea in many aspects, and it also comes with more features. And for the the price of one Summit to Sea chamber i can buy almost 2 oxyrevo chambers...
So this is a custom sized 28" Oxyrevo Apex 1.5ATA. Normally there is only a 32 and 36" version, but oxyrevo was kind enough to shrink it to 28", which makes it a lot more portable for me while traveling. The side pillows and mattress still need to inflate a bit after their vacuum shipment.
And it actually comes with an air cooler. I mean, how cool is that! Very nice for the warm summer months, thank you very much! I can now also adjust and see the pressure on the inside of the chamber. Pressure can be adjusted in 4 discrete steps: 1.2 - 1.3 - 1.4 or 1.5ATA. Sweet!!
I'll be further testing it in the upcoming days. The main question that obviously remains is, will it last as long as the Summit to Sea? I guess only time will tell! So ask me again in 12 years or so Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
Welcome back, S13!
I'm happy to hear you're doing relatively well and have continued mHBOT :)
I'm curious...since OxyRevo is manufactured in China, is there a location in Europe where you can send it for repairs, or are you required to send it back to China?
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kgg
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posted
S13, I am in a FB group where the sales woman says good things about OxyRevo and this model. She warns about other Chinese chambers, but this company she approves of.
Good for you for finding it!
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Thank you Phoiph. Good to see you are still hanging around too
So yes, oxyrevo is from china, and no there is no european support center. You basically buy directly from them in china, and they ship it to you by airfreight. So could that be a problem? Yes potentially. But to be honest, for me it wouldnt be any different from my old Summit to Sea chamber, which i would have to send to the US for repairs. I dont know, maybe that would be even more costly to be honest... Thankfully it never needed any servicing, so im hoping the oxyrevo will be the same.
Today i tested the chamber at max pressure, 1.5ATA and it didnt explode. Pfew.... I plan to use it only up to 1.4ATA when im at elevation in the mountains, otherwise i will stick with 1.3ATA. It is good to know it can handle the higher pressure, that gives me some safety margin.
So yeah its a really nice hyperbaric chamber. Not at all what you would expect from a product from China.
Obviously there will always be things that maybe you wish would be different, or could be improved. Having owned a Summit to Sea chamber gives me more perspective i guess. So with the oxyrevo, i think perhaps they could have used more flexible tubing (its a fairly stiff material) and im not sure i like the material of the mattress. Kind of smelly (hope that goes away) and it is a sort of slow memory foam, not my favorite. The compressor also uses almost double the energy (~320W) compared to my old Summit to Sea (2x 70W). No big difference, but when you are running it on solar panels and battery, it does matter. I do like that the oxyrevo compressor makes waaaay less noise inside the chamber. The Summit to sea compressor was very loud and i could only be in the chamber with a noise cancelling headphone on. The additional windows on the side of the oxyrevo are nice, but they also prevent me from folding the chamber up easily. So yeah, pros and cons...
Normally when you buy the Apex chamber it comes with an oxygen concentrator. I cant comment on the quality of that because i choose to buy the chamber without the concentrator. I have no need for it.
Anyway, im not trying to sell you a oxyrevo chamber I just wanted to post my experience. Because to be honest, when i was looking at these things i couldnt find much information or user reviews of it. And during the entire order process it was just a big gamble, not sure what i was going to end up with. But i'd like to think that these chambers could make the mhbot more accessible to some people.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
By the way, i also wanted to mention that oxyrevo uses a different mechanism for sealing the entry air tight. Its kind of interesting.
So my Summit to Sea uses one outer zipper made from metal that is designed to primarily handle the force. And then there is one inner zipper made from plastic/rubber that does not handle any force but is there to make the chamber air tight.
The oxyrevo uses a different principle. It uses 2 metal zippers, one on the inside, one on the outside, and both handle the force. But that wouldn't make it air tight. So they have this big rubber flap in between the zipper sections that gets squished from the outward force and thus makes an air tight seal.
Time will tell if this different approach makes the Oxyrevo more durable or not. The zipper that started to fail on my Summit to Sea was the inner air tight zipper. So Oxyrevo not having a an air tight zipper could potentially be a good thing...
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
Great information, S13, thank you!
I can see how this chamber makes sense for you especially since more affordable chamber options are limited in Europe.
It sounds like the seal is similar to Oxyhealth (i.e., 2 zipper system with rubber gasket in between), although your zippers are metal, not plastic, so hopefully that will help with longevity.
I hope it turns out very well for you, and I appreciate any updates you may have along the way.
Posts: 2075 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Hi everyone. Great to see this thread is still active and Phoiph and others still active and helping each other. Bless you all, this is such a hard illness to contend with that having community is so important.
Hope it's ok to post this here, if not, please let me know and I will delete.
Private message me if interested in a chamber.
(Edited by Hiker53 to be in accordance with the rules.)
posted
Curious, how are all of your chambers holding up over the years?
Here in Europe we also have Hyperbarics Europe, which is a fairly new company. And i was in contact with them about a chamber. But service and response was sooo slow, and prices high. Also upgrading to 1.5ATA is not commonly done here in Europe. They will do it if you ask, and you pay additional for it, but the chamber doesnt change. They just give you a different pressure valve and that is it. The same happened with my Summit to Sea actually. Im not sure if oxyrevo is different in that regard, but the wall material of the Oxyrevo Apex 1.5ATA is a lot thicker than my Summit to Sea's. So it seems to be designed to better handle the higher pressure i think.
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kgg
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posted
I had an OxyHealth Vitaeris that I bought used. I think it was a year old. It lasted me 10 years before the zipper blew. It was not used a lot by me. I will still very indecisive about using it at the time. But it was 10 years old.
I have a Newtowne now. So far so good.
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Wow kgg, your zipper actually blew? Did the whole tank rupture or something?
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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S13,
That's happened to me several times with Oxyhealth chambers over the years (i.e., zippers and/or window seals failed while under pressure).
I have Newtowne now, and have not had a problem yet (plus they are about 1/3 the cost of Oxyhealth).
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kgg
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S13, just a quiet pop and then whoosh as the air left the chamber.
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Oh wow, didnt expect that from the Oxyhealth chambers... Going more expensive doesnt guarantee quality it seems.
So you didnt experience it like an explosion? No damage to your eardrums or anything?
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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S13
Agreed...going more expensive doesn't mean there won't be issues as the chamber ages.
As kgg mentions, at mild pressure, it is not an explosion at all, just an unexpected pop and a rush of air exiting the chamber.
It is definitely a surprising (and jarring) experience (and not the best for your ears), but I had no aftereffects.
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kgg
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Correct Phoiph. It didn't bother my ears at all. I don't think I was up to full pressure. It was while the chamber was inflating.
Posts: 1849 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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My understanding is that the seals and zippers are designed to separate slowly if they fail, so the rate of decompression will be more gradual.
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kgg
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Phoiph, good to know.
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Phoiph
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I am grateful to see more and more studies being published on MILD hyperbaric.
This study found a significant increase in Natural Killer Cell (i.e., immune function) and Parasympathetic Nervous System (i.e., "rest and digest") activity after just one mild hyperbaric session.
No increase in oxidative stress or inflammatory markers was found.
dbpei
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posted
Thank you for posting this information, Phoiph. I am in my 70's and I have had my chamber for over 5 years now. I am so grateful to have made the decision to make this purchase. Of every treatment I have tried, my soft chamber seems to have helped me the most and it continues to be my go-to for feeling better both physically and mentally. It is wonderful to read about studies that support this information!
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