CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Phoiph, here is something I wonder.
As you know I did 40 HBOT dives at 2.4 ATA, what the llmds were ordering per Dr B trials. I felt pretty good whilst doing them but gains were lost when stopped.
Do you think you could quit doing them daily now and be fine? I am wondering if it's a long term/life thing or if people stop.
Or maybe just thinking too much. I am still strongly considering this therapy but as you know it's a huge commitment requiring family members to be on board. Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
CD57...
As we discussed, if I had stopped at 40 sessions as you did (and I almost did), I would not have recovered...
It took about 60 consecutive sessions to notice a change (not necessarily an improvement), and it was 2 steps forward, 1 back from there, but always moving in the right direction.
I thought I was well after the 1st year...but I have continued to make improvements since. I am now up to just over 2 years; about 750 dives.
I recently was without my chamber for 5 weeks due to a repair issue with the compressor (the repair didn't take that long; the shipping company dropped it on the return trip and it had to be re-repaired). The good news is that I had no feelings of regression whatsoever. I was actually traveling at the time and felt totally fine.
That said, would I voluntarily quit the chamber? The answer is "no"...because of the incredible health benefits above and beyond what it does for Lyme. Knowing what I know now about hyperbaric, I would own an use a chamber regularly regardless of whether I had Lyme or not...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409
posted
What about for an adolescent?
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks-
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
2roads...
Mild hyperbaric is used with younger people and children all the time. It is also frequently used for children with autism.
My observation is that younger people tend to respond more quickly, but, of course, this depends on many variables and circumstances...
You will need a doctor's prescription for purchase/use of the oxygen concentrator and chamber.
Also, since hyperbaric increases metabolic function, it may change how one responds to medication, so this needs to be monitored...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409
posted
I wouldn't want him more hyper than what he is.
Is that what you mean when u say it increases metabolism?
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
2roads...
When I stated that hyperbaric "increases metabolic function", I didn't mean that it would make one more "hyper", although many people report an improvement in energy and stamina.
Hyperbaric improves metabolic function at the cellular level, allowing the body systems to work more efficiently overall.
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Phoiph, you mention an oxygen concentrator. I see from the information I have looked at that in a clinic setting an oxygen mask is often used inside the chamber.
But you can use the chamber (like the ones for in-home use) without one. Is this a significant difference?
Is the added oxygen (mask) a big improvement over just the mild hyperbaric chamber? Or is this addition unnecessary? I hope this question makes sense.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
TNT...
Yes, there is a big difference between using a mild chamber with and without supplemental oxygen.
It is important to reach high enough oxygen saturation in the tissues to disable/kill the Lyme spirochetes, and for other healing reactions to occur. One needs the combination of supplemental oxygen (i.e., from an oxygen concentrator) PLUS increased pressure to achieve this.
The mild hyperbaric chamber is used without supplemental oxygen for other applications (e.g., altitude sickness), but for Lyme, in my opinion, supplemental oxygen is a necessity.
It is also important to invest in a concentrator that will work properly with a hyperbaric chamber...I have more information/resources for this (and chambers options, etc.) if you'd like.
Oxygen concentrators are sold separately from chambers, and you will need a doctor's prescription for purchasing both.
Please feel free to PM me about this...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have found ways to purchase oxyen in tanks to be refilled without perscription if anyone wants to know that.
One thing for sure, if the oxyen is administered in a hot sauna it will penetrate the skin. One cannot get too much oxyen. EWOT therapy is aother adjunctive approach. None of this may cure but it may help.
Posts: 803 | From USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Carmen...
The good news is that you don't need oxygen tanks with mild hyperbaric...you use an oxygen concentrator instead.
As far as hyperbaric is concerned, I have to disagree...one CAN get too much oxygen.
Because hyperbaric treatment produces free radicals (necessary for destruction of pathogens), our bodies must increase production of natural antioxidants to prevent damage to our cells (which the body does, as research shows).
If we upset that balance with too much oxygen, the body may not be able to keep up its antioxidant production to counteract the free radicals, and oxidative stress can occur.
Oxygen is considered a drug, and hyperbaric treatment is a VERY powerful treatment that is commonly misunderstood and underestimated...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Phoiph,
I PM-ed you. Now that I see your recent post, I have another question.
If oxygen produces free radicals, I wonder if this could be a problem for patients with methylation troubles?
The body may not be able to keep up with the production of natural antioxidants. (ie : like methyl donors for tissue repair)
I don't know very much about this, but I'm learning, so maybe it wouldn't be an issue if one has their specific defects covered and are taking plenty of antioxidants. ???
Maybe it would be safest to just use a chamber without the concentrator, at least at first.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess I would have to look into this more. Oxyen when delivered in though just the lungs as in normal breathing, there seems to be no upper limit for most people for measured periods of time
But when oxygen is artifically forced into the body as with pressure that may be different I guess.
When people us ozone therapy the ozone pushes up the capacity for detoxification. There is little hope for me to ever use this hyperbaric method anyway so I should probably not post on this thread.
Posts: 803 | From USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Hi TNT...
I answered your PM...
I am also very interested in methylation. I have not been tested, but suspect I have some form of the mutation...I may get tested to possibly shed some light on the hyperbaric/methylation relationship.
The thing about hyperbaric, is that it is hugely supportive of detoxification...which I suspect greatly assists those with methylation issues.
I am in contact with a 21 year old woman who has had Lyme most of her life. She also has a double methylation defect, and is working with a naturopath who specializes in this, and is treating her with supplementation/diet.
She recently started mild hyperbaric...and has had a remarkable shift...she went through an intense symptom flare, and is now seeing huge improvements. Of course, it is early in her treatment, and I suspect she will have many more ups and downs, but she is feeling very hopeful for the first time...
You could consider using the chamber without additional oxygen at first to get used to the pressure, then add oxygen in steps until you reach treatment level. In my opinion, you will ultimately need the additional oxygen to treat Lyme...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
It will be helpful to hear of your friends progress, Phoiph. I hope it continues to help her.
Maybe she would be able to post to lymenet herself, even.
Those of us who deal with methylation troubles need all the help we can get with these diseases! So, yes, let us know if you have some of the snps if you get tested.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Wow Lyme brain, I meant "about my progress"
Posts: 96 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Thanks can't wait to read it!
I have another question about ATA....my doc and I discussed the other day and he said I would need 1.8 ATA...I have also seen 1.5 ATA mentioned here by Phoiph. I don't think the home chambers can go up this high, does anyone know? I am researching this now.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
CD57, home chambers are not designed to go up to such pressures. I believe 1.3 ATA is the max... LymeMD (the doc who blogs) said that he had supplemental valves that bring it up to 1.5 ATA but I wouldn't alter my home chamber...it's not worth the risk to me.
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Hi spinning122,
I have just started doing mHBOT with a concentrator and would like to know more about your progress as well, as this may help me stay positive about it and would be helpful to see any symptom similarities.
thanks, TNT
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
TNT... PM'd you :-)
Posts: 96 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
CD-57...
You know from our conversations that I recovered using mild hyperbaric (home chamber) at 1.3 ATA (with supplemental oxygen via oxygen concentrator).
1.5 ATA and under is considered "mild" hyperbaric. This is the pressure that much research has been done on neurological issues, and found to be safer and more effective for many neurological and chronic conditions (See Dr. Harch's research/book/website: hbot.com ).
The neurologist that I am familiar with who runs a hyperbaric clinic says the difference between 1.5 ATA that is typically used in clinics, and 1.3 ATA reached by home chambers is negligible.
Can you enlighten me as to what your doctor's rationale is for saying you would need a higher level of 1.8 ATA? Maybe you have some sort of other condition that you haven't mentioned, as it is not a commonly recommended treatment level...(?)
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hi, No he just said "studies" when I asked him and did not elaborate. he believes that some of my chronic symptoms, possibly the depersonalization and ever increasing neuropathies and fasciculations and memory/cognitive issues, may be due to treatment / drug toxicity and not the infections, as I have gotten much worse in these areas since starting treatment. Some of the meds like Tindamax and Flagyl he suspects as neurotoxic in my case (although I personally thought Rifampin was the worst in that regard).
So in addition to infection, which is definitely still there, I am dealing with healing the CNS. I suspect that is what he meant by my needing higher pressure.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
CD57...
Sorry to diverge from the topic, but your case sounds very similar to mine. So I have a question. Do you have a lot of subcutaneous nodules-ones that would normally be considered Bartonella?
I have them in my muscles and along my bones, and are getting worse. I believe they are infection related, but sometimes wonder if connected with toxicity.
If you have these, did your earlier 40 dives make any difference with them?
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
CD57...
If your doctor believes that your chronic symptoms are more "due to treatment/drug toxicity and not the infections", then that is all the more reason to go "low and slow" (i.e., mild hyperbaric) and avoid the higher pressures.
Higher pressures can be toxic for some people, and can actually result in regression in some conditions. Research has shown that lower pressures are safer and more effective for many chronic neurological conditions, and more is not always better in these circumstances.
Please read this article by Dr. Paul Harch, which illustrates this point:
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hi TNT, no I do not have nodules. My symptoms are primarily CNS and heart related.
I felt great during my 40 dives, but as with most who post about this, the gains, if that is what they were, did not last. I know several folks who did 100 dives at 2.4 and it did not help them conquer the infection although it did seem to help with symptoms while they were doing the dives. I suspect that like Phoiph, people who are quite ill will need to do this for a long time to see any kind of turnaround, and then keep going past that point to hope that the gains hold.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Thanks CD57,
I hope you can successfully get at your Bartonella infection. Maybe long term mHBOT would be helpful for this? It sure gets depressing when the typical treatment for most people doesn't work with yourself. I feel for you.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I believe some were wondering if/how HBOT helps with detox...
From an interview with the President of the International Hyperbaric Medical Association (although it is not specific to Lyme treatment I still found it enlightening):
"Does hyperbaric have any therapeutic benefit in so far as helping with detoxification?
Well, it certainly seems to. By opening up the circulation into damaged tissues that alone helps with the detoxification process and certainly by normalizing various enzyme systems it helps with the detoxification process because a metabolically healthy cell will be able to participate in the required chemical steps to detoxify."
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Sorry to budge in on this topic.
Just a question for those of you with your own chamber at home...
Is the air compressor just as loud as any air compressor?
I'm asking because I live in an apartment and I'm pretty sure my neighbours would be bothered by a regular air compressor.
Thank you.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
It is a relatively small compressor, and if working properly, not as loud as the larger ones you may be used to hearing.
If necessary, you could place it in a room without walls that are shared with neighboring tenants, close doors, and/or place sound-dampeners (like pillows, blankets, etc. around the compressor (but definitely far enough away so they wouldn't impede air flow)...
The Oxygen concentrator also makes noise, but it is quieter than the compressor.
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I spoke to a rep at Oxyhealth concerning the altitude question. He said the only time anyone had a problem was someplace in Colorado at 9,500 feet. I live at 5,000 feet so I was concerned because I just bought a used Respiro with concentrator for my very ill daughter and son.
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Some years ago he was totally against my posts about glutathione IV and mild hbot. Sheesh.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Sounds like things have c hanged Oxygenbabe. Could you go to that thread and post your experience (what is it, by the way? Did you improve entirely with mHBOT like Phioph?)
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
They help me--I have a whole protocol. It's not a cure and I do it about twice a month. Although occasionally more often if something is bothering me (injury or muscle strain)
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
oxygenbabe,
Are you referring to the IV glutathione or hyperbaric sessions when you say twice a month?
If you are by chance referring to hyperbarics, have you done it regularly in the past for an extended period of time and found it not any more helpful than doing it twice monthly?
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
How much does it cost to treat every day for 60 days?
IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
TNT, both. I originally, six months into lyme did a month of deep dive. Unfortunately this was in a multichamber with hood without any protection to my eyes and I had irreversible eye changes because of the oxygen toxicity across the cornea at 2.4 ata. I advise anybody to consider this--some will be vulnerable, some won't. Consider closing eyes, using a mask, or using lower pressures than 2.4 ata which puts a lot of 02 into the system.
I did nothing more for 18 months and completely relapsed, so I did 2 more months at 2.4 ata but I did it with eyes closed, which seemed to make a big difference to the eyes.
After that I realized that deep dive was only temporary, and I found out about mild hbot and got one. At first I used it more often. Over time I created a self designed protocol by experimenting. It's far from perfect. But it makes a huge difference.
In an ideal world i'd do a deep dive chamber at 1.5-1.75 for 1-2 months with eyes closed followed by a mild chamber at home for maintenance. Or rather, had that all been available and I'd known about it then.
I think its a highly underutilized therapy, probably because it's expensive. It's adjunctive, though. It doesn't kill borrelia, just suppress. It also helps undo damage to endethlium, blood vessels, hypoxia, free radicals etc.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I should add, I don't see it as generally curative. It's more like a support. It allows one to function (my particular protocol is low dose and geared to me, including dietary and significant lifestyle changes). I have all the Buhner herbs, which I need to try.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Interesting that you say it is not curative, oxygenbabe. Why would you think it is not?
Did you have co-infections by chance Oxygenbabe? How did you do with those?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
I priced out 40 dives at an HBOT clinic.
They just do HBOT; the clinic is solely HBOT therapy.
$8500 for 40 dives.
Seems like an awful lot for only 40 dives.
It seems it would be more cost effective to buy a unit so one could dive as much as required for some relief.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Oxygenbabe...
I respectfully disagree completely.
Hyperbaric is extremely powerful, and is most definitely curative; my case in point.
It has to be used consistently, frequently, and for an extended period of time, and this is where I have observed treatment failures can occur...people give up too soon, or are not consistent in their treatment.
Please refer to this study on how reactive oxygen species (ROS), produced by hyperbaric treatment, affect Borrelia:
A quote at the end of the study reads, "...This indicated that Borrelia membranes can be damaged simply by exposure to physiologically relevant concentrations of dissolved oxygen..."
Hyperbaric is not just an "adjunctive", or "supportive" treatment, or "suppressive" by any means...on the contrary!!!
If you read this entire thread, you know that I had one of the most severe cases of neurolyme that LLMD's had seen...and was deemed an "antibiotic failure" and left for dead...but I have my life back completely...with NO adjunctive therapies (other than homeopathy prior to starting mHBOT), restrictions, or medications...I consider myself "cured" thanks to mHBOT...
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
yeah it really is inspiring Phoiph. Do you know anyone else who was as severe a case, multiply coinfected, who has stuck with mHBOT like you and is better?
I am determined to get a chamber, as I just read the 2013 ILADs notes today which say "bartonella is antibiotic resistant and immune evasive". Great, so if it is going to kill you, like it will me, I have nothing to lose by trying this!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for the link to that study, Phoiph...that was exactly what I was looking for.
Planning to print it out and bring it to my LLMD...and hopefully convince others that pharmaceutical drugs are not the only way to attack this disease.
Posts: 96 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Hi CD57...
Yes, I do...particularly the person who convinced me to continue with mHBOT after 40+ dives, when I thought it wasn't working. He not only saved his own life with HBOT, but I credit him with saving mine as well...
There are also a number of people who have started mHBOT more recently, and are experiencing promising changes thus far...
On the flip side, do you know of anyone who was as severe a case, multiply coinfected, and who has stuck with the protocols that you (and others) are discussing/practicing/promoting on this forum and have become completely well?
Just wondering where they all are...and why they're not on this forum coaching others?
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
yes, good point Phoiph....the answer to your question is "NO" !
How is the young woman doing that you have been in touch with?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
I spoke to the young woman's mother a few days ago...her daughter has recently enrolled in college (after being homebound for years)...
She still may have a rocky road ahead (2 steps forward, one back), as she hasn't been doing mHBOT for an extended period yet...but she finally feels hopeful that she is getting her life back...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
WOW! that is spectacular!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Agreed...I took a video of her before she started mHBOT, then another more recently...the change is beyond amazing...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
If this is ChelseaSmile, would she be able to post some more specifics on how she feels she is being hit by it (what symptoms became more problematic at first).
Are some symptoms flaring, some symptoms improving. How long has she been doing the dives to date? A few specifics on what has been par for the course.
I know that I get an episode almost every dive where I feel like I can't breathe and get a little lightheaded, even though I am breathing oxygen from a concentrator.
There are some other interesting things that would be worth mentioning, but I would really like to hear other's experience so I may compare notes, and not feel like this or that was mentioned because I mentioned it.
I guess I'm looking for these specifics at this point since I am analyzing my responses (good or bad) and hoping it will begin to take the shape of a turn around. Though, I'm not giving up - I'm sticking to it on a daily basis.
thanks for your replies
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Hi TNT...
As far as I know, she doesn't regularly follow this forum...but I will send her the link so she can respond if she chooses.
Just a comment on your post...I believe documenting your symptoms briefly on a daily basis when doing mHBOT is VERY important, but I discovered that trying to "analyze" what is changing on a daily basis is not a very accurate way to interpret progress. It is better to compare the changes that occur in, say, 2 month intervals. These are the more lasting patterns that show an overall "trajectory", rather than the day-to-day ups and downs...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
TNT, great! you are diving? what ATA? did you decide to go to clinic or purchase/rent?
Sorry if you posted this elsewhere, I took a quick look and couldnt find it. Yay!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Hi CD57,
I am using a home chamber (1.3 ATA). Some may consider what I am using contraband, but I have been doing hour sessions daily for 3+ weeks now, with a concentrator.
I am currently dealing with a "slide" that is related to increasing my daily dosage of Plaquenil. It seems every time I try treating protozoas more it backfires with increasing neuropathies, coordination troubles (especially with walking), joint deterioration, more nerviness, mind fog, twitching, vibration sensitivites, etc. It's just terrible!! My nervous system gets so flared up I cannot relax or barely sleep.
I don't know what is happening, but feel it is related to bart. or lyme coming to the surface. I don't think it is related to mHBOT given the circumstances with the meds. If anyone has a clue, or had a similar experience, please reply or PM me!
I plan on continuing the hbot as long as I am physically able to climb in and out. I just hope this is helpful for me.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
TNT, I had a similar (minus the walking and joint stuff) flare happen with Plaquenil. I had to quit. My doc told me later that he has found that Plaquenil is really hard for some people to take - ie; neurotoxic. I know that when I was on it, I had terrible dreams, crying, extreme nervous agitation. Come to think of it, I have had a similar exp on most if not all abx.
So my point is is may be the plaqueinil itself that is bothering your system, rather than a kill off etc. Maybe go back to the smaller dose rather than increasing? I assume your doc wrote for 400mg/day?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Also of course depending on what you are taking it with, it could be as Dr H book says, alkalinizing the intracellular compartment so your other meds can work better. I get the impression that is why he uses it, less so for a killing aspect.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find this a very interesting topic. I am also battling with "MSIDS" (lyme, babs, bart, etc.) and feel that antibiotics do not provide enough improvement. mHBOT seems like a promising add-on to my therapy.
Im very new at mHBOT, never used it before, so i am trying to figure out some of the details.
quote:Originally posted by Phoiph: The oxygen concentrator must be of a specific power to be used effectively with a hyperbaric chamber, but has the advantage of not needing refills of oxygen cylinders, etc.
So, how do you know that an oxygen concentrator will be powerful enough to be used with mHBOT? Do you need a certain amount of airflow to compensate for the additional air pressure?
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Phoiph, have you stopped all sessions for six months or more? If it's ongoing you're simply suppressing. There was a study in guinea pigs where they infected them with borrelia then built them mini hbot and did sessions at 2.4 ata. TOtal suppression, but after 3 months of no hbot, total recrudescence.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
In addition, 1.3 ata in a mild chamber with a mask at about 50-60% 02 (that's what you get with that type of plastic leaky mask and a flow of about 8 lpm because of pushback from the chamber on a 10 lpm concentrator, you won't get enough into deep tissues or ligaments to necessarily damage--only suppress, and you won't do bupkiss to cysts and "seeds" (that syphilis and borrelia throw off).
It's a very useful therapy, but I am think you will need it ongoing.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
well, I'll take suppression too, as long as with the co's it works also!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Amen to that!!
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Yes, nothing wrong with suppression that's quite right. And much more benevolent than longterm antibiotics.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Oxygenbabe...
You mentioned the guinea pig study before on another thread, and I asked you if you had a resource...but didn't get a reply. Do you have a link? I have been researching hyperbaric intensely for over 2 years and haven't come across it, but would love to read it...
In terms of "recrudescence" or "suppression"...consider the study done by Texas A&M on 91 subjects with CDC positive Lyme treated with HBOT. 84.8% showed "significant improvement", and after discontinuation of treatment, "many subjects continued to show improvement for up to 8 months. Follow up, from 6 years to 6 weeks, showed that the benefit was sustained in approximately 70% of patients..." (from the Textbook of Hyperbaric Medicine, K.K. Jain).
Remember also, that it's not just about killing spirochetes (which oxygen does...see "Fife" study, for example), of equal importance is that strengthens and normalizes the immune response, which is 100% necessary to become well and stay well...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
S13...
You need an oxygen concentrator that has enough PSI that can handle the backpressure from the chamber.
The unit that I prefer has 20 PSI (pounds per square inch), and 10 LPM (liters per minute) oxygen flow. The oxygen purity is +-93%.
20 PSI is a little higher PSI than you actually need for use with a home chamber (which is pressurized to 1.3 ATA, 4.2 PSI), but there will be less stress on the concentrator over time and it will last longer...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
A little bit on ATA. All of Oxyhealth current soft shell models are 1.3 ATA unless tampered with which would be a stupid thing to do. Oxyhealth does make a hard chamber that goes higher but $70K. I think they are coming out with a soft chamber that can go a little higher. The lyme doctor that can go higher uses a http://www.newtownehyperbarics.com/. Best bet in my mind is a used Oxyhealth with guidance from Phoiph who makes no money off helping people. I bought a used Vitareus with compressor for $7,000. It is a 2006 but is working find. I am about 20 dives in. Definately helps inflamation and muscle pain. I will keep this board updated but as I have said before I am not as sick as most of you. I am also doing photon treatment alongside. We will all know more in next few months. I have 5 family members including my children that have fought this awful disease on and off for 17 years. I don't really care so much if there is a cure or not, just an equilibrium of immune system and pathogens just like chicken pox. And of course I would like to have healthy grandchildren some day but no need to get into the sexual transmission issue as I have read all the different opinions.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree. If it requires ongoing therapy, but it is able to give you your life back, then it is worth every penny!
I wish all here good luck with this and hope there will be more success stories like Phoiph's.
I have been looking around for oxygen concentrators and was hoping to get away with one of the cheaper ones, but i guess because of the hbot backpressure that will not be possible. I see I can get something like an Airsep Intensity 10L here. I suppose this will do then? 10L, with 20psig outlet pressure.
Also what kind of headpiece do you all use? I see one could use a nose tube, or full oxygen mask. What would be more sufficient in terms of oxygen concentration?
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I use full mask made by Salter labs. Very inexpensive.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Hi S13...
I have a resource for the Airsep 20LPM 10PSI that is $1350 new, which is the best price I have found.
I also can get a discount on new/used chambers from the manufacturer...part of which I pass on to the buyer, the other part is kept on account toward chambers to be placed in the community for qualifying people that can't afford treatment (I take no personal "cut")...
Full masks deliver more oxygen than the nose prongs.
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
| IP: Logged |
Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Anyone want to address the Dr J.S. study on patients doing HBOT with babs and bart? Neff had brought that up on another thread.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic