posted
First I will state that I don't expect anyone to condone this as it is outside medical care.
But. I couldn't find my bicillin RX through my pharmacy but I have raised horses and order veterinary suppies. Peniclllin and bicillin are available through the vet supply houses so I ordered it (very very very cheap vs. RX - maybe because it doesn't come in the TUBEX vials). It is in a larege vial and you have to get the needles and syringes seperately.
I got it took the insert and compared to the insert for the TUBEX and there are small differences and I googled the differing ingredients and don't see anything harmful.
Anyone else every used this? Enough for 50 injections is about $50 w/needles/syringes vs. $100 per shot TUBEX.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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stymielymie
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posted
don't know for sure. if it is the same company, which it is,\ since it is not generic yet??? the formulations would be different and the preservatives may also be different. but theoretically bicillin is bicillin i would ask your md prior to use before anything this extreme.
i have over the years many people drugs on my dogs, altering the dose per weight. yah know you may be safer with vet meds than generics. a brand name horse or human drug must meet the same standards. you wouldn't want to give crap bicillin to a $250,000 horse would you????
anybody you ask will probably say no, but don't hurt to ask, even the vet. ask him if he would use it on himself if needed. that should get you an honest response.
there is not a lot of control on generics and they are self regulated(haha) to control their product to standards.
luckily most generics come from 2-3 big sources and can't afford to screw up.
don't buy foreign generics or meds from 3rd world countries. there is no control over manufacturing in other countries beware
docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
My pharmacists couldn't even get the bicillin so after I order the cattle version (it is in all the beef we eat so it must be somewhat okay for people!) and I was picking up another RX - I asked about it - they said ask my VET??? So much for our medical system Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I was on it a year, bought it at the local feed store.100ml,,,11.95,and 10 cents for the swring,and 10 for the needles.
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Tell him to tell his wholesaler that it is for an emergency. (The manufacturer told me that Lyme is considered an emergency.) The wholesaler then just needs to call the mfr. (King Pharmaceuticals) and tell them this. They will ship.
I was on Bicillin L-A 1.2mu for a year and a half, and never had a problem getting it. Just be sure to request refills as soon as your insurance will allow to make sure you have it before running out. It can take up to a week to arrive once the wholesaler speaks with King.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I buy terramycin eye ointment at pet store. I get fevers and chills when I use it. My floaters decrease. If stop using it floaters increase.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
I was at a kids birthday party in the Santa CRuz mountains once and Lyme came up- and one of the Moms said, "Oh, my daughter had Lyme when she was 5-she had to be on abx for a whole year." I asked who treated her and she changed the subject oddly. Later she came up to me and said, "I treated her myself with animal meds- I'm a Vet and I couldn't get a doctor who would even examine the issue." SO that has always made me feel better about animal abx- that a Mom would use them on her own kid knowing their quality very well!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Dont the doctors warn you before writing a script for Bicillin that it might be impossible to fill because there is a National shortage?
Ticked, you are fortunate - I have read alot where people have been unsuccessful obtaining bicillin after being on it a while. That cant be good.
I guess while you figure out the safety issues it would be important to confirm that this is the same as the long acting bicillin LA and not the shorter acting CR.
Sounds like 8Man might be able to give you that information
Posts: 465 | From New York, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
What I found is the bicillin C-R (not the L-A)but is says 48 hours acting so it should be better than the penicillin G procaine. I note that there is a 30 withdrawal period on it before the cattle are slaughtered so it would still be in the system. Plus they instruct to inject under the skin vs IM since IM will require a longer withdrawal. So if I IM that should be better.
I have it in the fridge and am going to try it today. Will let you all know how it goes.
I got 500 ml - enough for 125 4 ml injections - about $50. 125 Tubex injections would be about $12,500 according to my pharmacist. I hate the drug companies right now.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
It is the Penicillin LA that is indicated for Lyme. Penicillin G Benzathine.
The CR contains Penicillin G and Penicillin G Procaine.
Are you sure of the "other ingredients" that are in there? Did it come with Labeling or a brand name. Cant be too cautious.
Posts: 465 | From New York, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
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groovy2
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posted
Hi All
75% of ABX made and consumed in the US are used on Live stock--
Cattle get Treated better than us --Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Isn't this thread a sad commentary on the state of our medical system!
Even sick horses and cows can have all the Bicillin, or at least Pen BP, that they need without having to send their firstborn to market to pay for the stuff.
Sick Lymies having to go to the barn and stand in line with the cows to get any medical attention is pretty sad.
Those needing Doxycycline or Tetracycline on the other hand will have to do a species jump and become chickens. While in the henhouse, please be wary of the rooster.
To get Minocycline though requires a species jump few may be willing to make. The only way I know of to get it now is to become a teenager with acne.
If you can get past that, the rest is easy. Just eat lots of chocolate and go to a dermatologist. With a properly presented case of 'pizza face', you will be fixed up with a lifetime Minocycline prescription.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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MariaA
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posted
regarding livestock:
It's a horrible travesty that we waste MOST of this country's antibiotics on livestock- in subclinical doses. The 'food' industry gives abx to beef and dairy cattle in prophylactic doses (meaning whether they're sick or not) because it speeds up rate of growth, and because our other farming practices affect cattle's immune systems.
The problem with subclinical doses of ANYTHING antibiotic is that it leads to antibiotic resistance. Some of these bugs jump the species barrier and infect humans.
And yet the IDSA folks claim that giving longterm antibiotics to humans with Lyme is a terrible idea because it causes antibiotic resistance.
Disgusting.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
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posted
Another disgusting thing about this topic is that it reminds me of several historical incidents I've read about whereby people who went to gay bars in the 1950's couldnt' get medical treatment when after being attacked by gay-bashers (ie either hospitals refusing to treat or police throwing the victim in jail on sodomy charges and refusing to treat the injuries, which resulted in death a number of times)- and sometimes the only treatment available (for bleeding, broken bones etc) was to haul the victim to a veterinarian- the vets were sometimes less likely to have this institutional bias that police/paramedics seemed to have at the time.
What with doctors being prosecuted for writing prescriptions, it looks like we're back to that degree of access to medical care, all over a frickin bug disease. disgusting.
posted
James H., the last four paragraphs of your post are funny enough to be reposted in the Lymenuts CD hits site(our Lyme hahas site). You could give them a cute title...
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Truthfinder
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This was all I could find as far as a partial list of ``veterinary antibiotic equivalents'':
o Amikacin (Amiglyde-V, Amikacin C Injection, Amiject D) o Aminopenicillins (Ampicillin, Amoxicillin) o Amoxicillin/Clavulanate (Clavamox�, Augmentin�) o Azithromycin (Zithromax�) o Cephalosporins (Cefadroxil, Cephalexin, Cefazolin) o Clindamycin (Antirobe�, Cleocin�) o Doxycycline (Vibramycin�) o Enrofloxacin (Baytril�) o Erythromycin o Extended-spectrum Penicillins (Carbenicillin: Geocillin, Pyopen, Geopen) o Gentamicin (Gentocin) o Kanamycin (Kantrim) o Lincomycin (Lincocin�) o Marbofloxacin (Zeniquin�) o Metronidazole (Flagyl�) o Novobiocin (Albaplex, Delta Albaplex) o Nystatin, Neomycin, Thiostrepton, Triamcinolone (Animax�, Panolog�) o Orbifloxacin (Orbax�) o Penicillin G (Procaine, Benzathine, or Aqueous Penicillin G) o Penicillinase-resistant penicillins (Cloxapen, Dycill, Bactocill) o Sulfadimethoxine (Albon�) o Sulfadimethoxine/Ormetoprim (Primor�) o Tetracycline (Panmycin) o Thiabendazole/Neomycin/Dexamethasone (Tresaderm�) o Trimethoprim/Sulfadiazine and Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole (Tribrissen) o Trimethoprim/Sulfa (Bactrim�, Septra, Tribrissen�) o Tylosin (Tylan�)
If you go to the link, there are articles associated with each abx listed, which tells what that particular abx is used for, etc. I'm sure how many of these might be available OTC.
Gee, I don't even see bicillin on here. Probably because these are common abx for pets, not necessarily for livestock.
Heck, maybe we should be getting our drugs at the feed store. And be nice to your vet. You may need him.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
My old vet used to give "Calf Scours Tablets with Teramycin" to his kids when they got sick.
I always have a couple bottles of these tablets stored in my basement in case of an emergency. I remember taking some many years ago - don't remember for what.
(BTW, the tablets are HUGE, but you can cut them up.)
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
ASIDE TO MariaA:
The first CPS organization was started in Great Britain because a repeatedly beaten and abused little girl fled to the RSPCA for help- (just like our SPCA but Royal!!). There was no org for humans then!!!!!!! Yup, Lymies get treated in barbaric ways by the medical profession- in the bad old days alkies got thrown into asylums- but now the med profession knows the physiological components of addiction much better-and hopefully one day all doctors will know the stuff our LLMDs know*)!*)! I hope so()_!(_!(_!(
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Well, I took my first injection of the vet penicillin about 2 hours ago. I am still alive to post this!
Actually, it wasn't too bad. I've been less worried about penicillin than about giving it to myself, but I have had experience injecting horses over the years with vaccines so I just decided if I could do it to them, I could do it to me. Wasn't that bad.
I'll be glad to post updates if anyone is interested.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Yeah, farmdog -- am interested in your reporting back. This vet med thread is interesting. Am wondering how far it can go, this crossing of vet med for humans. Do let us know if you start to neigh or bark...
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
STILL alive*)*!)!*????????????????????
Hope so*)*!)!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Perhaps Farmdog is out chewing his cud somewhere...
I just can't believe the price difference between the human drugs and the animals drugs. It seems unbelievable. Can we be getting screwed even worse than we thought on cost?
Calling Farmdog - here, boy - c'mon, boy - time to check in!
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Yes, we really take a beating in this country ! Big pharma socks it to the USA. It's not that the Vet drugs are any less quality...It's that they get away with jacking up the prices so much.
Just look at the difference in the Bicillin that you can buy in Mexico for about $3 a bottle. It's just as good as the ready made stuff from King Pharma. You don't even have to worry about keeping it cold. But even Big Pharma has been successfull in trying to shut down this avenue. There were so many people that were going down there on a regular basis that the Gov tightened up things tremendously. I understand that you have to have a passport to get back accross the border now. They are also checking the bags a lot more closely and requiring Rx's where they didn't give a hoot before.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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Truthfinder
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posted
Yeah, and look what the government did with the Medicare prescription drug program. All that did was make Canadian drugs about the same price as U.S. drugs to force Medicare patients to buy drugs HERE.
I hate this manipulation.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Its been 3 days inquiring minds want to know, Are you OK? Hows it going?
Posts: 465 | From New York, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
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caat
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posted
I treated myself with animal doxy for three years. I tolerated it much better than the generic doxy and I think it was a little stronger than the generic. If it wasn't for that I'd have had severe brain damage by now...
The dose of ivermectin to treat roundworms is somewhere around $300 if I remember right. I bought enough to put a human in a coma maybe three times over for $12. Of course, I had to mix it well and be very very careful about calculating & measuring out the right dose.
Here's to all the brave souls who can't afford decent care!
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Has anyone heard from this guy since he started this treatment? Just wondering how it was going and if he is OK.
Posts: 465 | From New York, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
This says a lot about big pharma and health care in the US .
I do not blame you one bit for taking this approach ! Twelve thousand dollars for a drug that is given to horses for almost nothing !!!!
No wonder our health insurance is unaffordable. I can not tell you how DISGUSTING this is becoming .
And who really cares ? Our legislators vote themselves raises in the dark of night , refuse to exert border control, try to prohibit a raise in the minimum wage, and do not CARE that health care is BANKRUPTING SO MANY FAMILIES .
I am paying a fortune for insurance that COVERS NOTHING and am about to join the ranks of the uninsured or the underinsured.
Where is this all going to end ? It is genuinely inhumane .
I applaud you for trying to find a plausible solution to your problem , just like the vet who gave the meds to her daughter.
As I have said before, this is a save yourself disease , that calls for a save yourself protocol .
Truthfinder
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Member # 8512
posted
Marsy, I've been wondering the same thing - what happened to Farmdog?
Jennifer, I agree with everything you said (well, except the minimum wage thing - there will be a big backlash from that and the cost of everything will go up, small businesses will suffer because the "across the board" raise is way to much in some states.)
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rianna
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posted
I buy Benzathine Penicillin from fresenius via South Africa and I only pay $140.00 for 100 vials of 1.2MU - If you want the details let me know. I am told by my LLMD it is an excellent Bicilllin Generic available.
CaliforniaLyme
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posted
BUMP!*)*!)!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by caat: I treated myself with animal doxy for three years.
Meds like Doxy that are intended for the animal market are often the actual product you would get from a pharmacy.
All US pharmaceuticals have identifying codes imprinted on the individual tablets or capsules. If you type that into google you will find out who made it and who (or what) it was intended for.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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david1097
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posted
THEY ARE THE SAME. Made in the same plant usng the same equipment.
There is no liability issues for animal meds, nor is ther a big sales and support overhead. For the vet drugs (at least the large animal ones) it is no more than bulk chemical sales.
It is like Methylcabolomine. In bulk form is costs about $100 for a 45 gallon barrel of powder (from china). For human use it is, when compounded something like $30/cc.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
The fact that we even need to have this discussion is a very SAD commentary on the state of our medical system.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
To all, I sincerely apologize for taking so long to report back. I am still alive and kicking!
Herx'd pretty bad after the 2nd shot in a few days - RX was for 2 shots a week. Eventually I just had to take a break. Know what? When I took a few weeks off to let my body rest, I started feeling a heck of a lot better than I have in a long time.
Started shots again, still herxing - but I am still not able to tolerate the RX amount - need to take breaks but am seeing a clear difference when I am off the shots (and thus not herxing).
This stuff works as far as I know by now.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
Did you need a script from a vet to get the ABX?
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posted
No, it can be ordered from veterinary supply catalogs.
I took the insert to my last appt with Dr - she read it, said she didn't see anything much different from "people" bicillin. Of course then she said she couldn't encourage that, but maybe I could call the FDA and ask about whether there are different standards (the vet stuff is FDA approved). Then she wrote me another RX for the people stuff I can't get .. and I'm still taking the vet stuff.
Posts: 19 | From texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I heard Capt Joyce Riley talk one night several years ago about the first Desert Storm Veterans.
She said that some of them were getting there Doxy from the feed stores.
I would consider doing the same thing. If I researched it and knew what it additional ingredients were in it. You said that you have. I would like for you to keep us posted.
travis
Posts: 29 | From south | Registered: Dec 2005
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Boomerang
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posted
What an interesting thread. I don't know much about this, but had an strange thing happen awhile back.
My dog caught kennel cough when playing with the neighbor's dog. Neighbor felt bad about it, and brought me two pills to give my dog. She had gotten them from another neighbor who worked at a vet's office.
I was hesitant, but they convinced me they would cure my dog of the nasty kennel cough. They assured me the pills were safe, and the same thing the vet would give.
Anyway, I gave my dog the pills, and she was cured in a day and a half. I couldn't believe it.
Would have cost me $100 easily at the vet's office. The pills were bacterial pills for fish tanks!!
Does make you wonder, huh?
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Another pharmacy that sells ABX without script ( Australia) is 4 Corners pharmacy . I know folks who have had good luck with their meds and they are reasonable and prompt .
They sell minocycline and doxycycline and several ABX .
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