Truthfinder
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posted
Okay, to those of you who may go a little too fast or suddenly experience the beginnings of nausea or diarrhea...... here is a `reminder post' made by someone over on the MDI Yahoo group that may be helpful:
quote:About an hour after taking the MMS, if you begin to experience pain at the bottom of your stomach - top of your gut, you might want to take the antidote. The antidote, to avoid more cramping and diarrhea, is to mix a teaspoon of baking soda (or an alka seltzer) into a glass of water and sip it down. If you chug it, you might throw up. If your dose is large you might want to throw up, so do so. Then take more baking soda and water and sip it slowly over the space of 30-60 minutes. Your symptoms should disappear mostly by then.
The other possibilbity is to take 1000 mg of vitamin C. Your choice. But not both. The baking soda worked fine for me last night and was quite pleasant to take. My friend took the C and barfed, then the soda. She did 15 drops [of MMS] on an empty stomach on her second dose. I find I handle MMS best about an hour after my evening meal.
(It sounds like the Vitamin C didn't work all that well for the one person.....)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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Hi, Arrow - welcome back.... or welcome again.... well, .... just welcome!
I appreciate what you and others are doing over at the HealthSalon site. I can't remember seeing references in the testimonials as to where the original posts came from, and I think that might lend more `credibility' to the post. People can then check out the original post for themselves if they have doubts about whether the comments are valid.
Uh-oh. No post from NatureLover yet tonight..... I hope he didn't end up praying to the Porcelain God.....
NatureLover, hope you are okay..... and regarding one of your posts, above..... you are going to get better. Believe me, I know your frustration, and I will even go so far as to admit that it is probably worse for a man than a woman. But with your determination, the glass really is half-full in this case.
D Bergy said: ***''My wife had to give it a rest. The MMS is just too powerful for her to take continuously.....She may go back on it in a day or two. I would like to know more about the warning below before proceeding. She feels much better today after she stopped.''***
***''There have been a couple of warnings surfacing about possible Thyroid damage from using MMS. I have not heard any people reporting of actual damage so I am assuming this is a theoretical risk. Since no one knows what side effects could surface I feel I should mention this.''***
I saw this warning, too. And I can't understand what was written the link you posted, either. But I've not heard of anyone actually experiencing this. One person taking the MMS had a thyroid test done and their levels came out normal. The only other thing I can offer is this, which was posted over on the MDI group:
quote:``.... chlorine dioxide is known to reduce T4 output. It appears to do that by oxidizing iodide in the gut into other iodine forms. The authors conclude:
``Currently, we hypothesize that some as-yet unknown iodinated molecule forming in trace quantities in the alimentary tract is responsible for the thyroid inhibition seen during C102 exposure. It is anticipated that such compounds form in vivo in very small amounts even at 100 ppm C102 concentration; therefore, they must possess extraordinary biological activity.''
I'll report any more that I read from the other groups.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
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posted
The single worst thing about this treatment that I am aware of is the crappy name. I almost ignored it altogether because of it.
I will be very interested in a chemists point of view.
Some one posted on another site that Chlorine Dioxide is used by vets quite a lot for treating animals. Usually livestock such as chickens. Not sure if that is the case or not. Can anyone confirm This?
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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D Bergy
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I thought this was a rather interesting revelation.
It is estimated that 85% of all modern pharmaceuticals include chlorine as a primary constituent, or depend on it in the production of the actual end product (Malkin & Fumento, 1997; Howlett, 1995). Many of the newer generation antibiotics are made of chlorinated compounds, which have been highly effective in stopping mutated pathogens.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Greatcod
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posted
This is from the article that D Bergy provided the link to. Read about chlorine toxicity. Has this product has never been evaluated for medical use-or side effects? An Internet website promoting the product says there are no side effects, so if its on the Internet, it has to be true.
Risk vs. Benefit Modern science defines risk as "possibility x consequences" (Chlorophiles, 1997). Responsible risk assessment methods call for hazard identification, dose-response assessment, exposure assessment, and risk characterization (NRC, 1993). In order to accurately evaluate each of the many thousands of chlorinated compounds, this process should be applied exhaustively for each of the specific compounds. The reality is that 50,000 to 70,000 people die each year from toxic exposure and related chronic disease (Landrigan, 1992).
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D Bergy
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I share the concern about the long term safety of MMS.
It also could result in a severe Herxheimer reaction in someone who has a high bacterial load of Lyme spirochetes.
Here is a study on Chlorine Dioxide used in human volunteers. Could not find any others.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Greatcod
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posted
MMS is not a medicine, and has not been studies as such. The clinical studies involve concentrations that are found is some drinking water supplies. The molecular form of chlorine and its concentrations are what no one knows about. Its your life, you can swallow anything you want and call it medicine..but it's an industrial chemical really.. I don't think that anyone has the right to tell anyone else that an industrial chemical is safe to use as a medicine when its never been studied. Very serious business.
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Greatcod
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The idea that you "studied" it as a medicine is absurd. It is not a medicine and has never been studied as such. Studying a medicine goes far beyond looking things up on the Internet. There are side effects for some people, even at drinking water concentrations. You might think about informing them of this.
Populations at Special Risk: Individuals with glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency may be more sensitive to chlorine dioxide or chlorite because of a reduced capacity for maintaining significant levels of glutathione, which can lead to destruction of red blood cells and hemolytic anemia
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D Bergy
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Sodium Chloride is used in some paper mills as a bleaching agent. The chemicals in many Pharmaceuticals also contain Chlorine which is even a more common industrial chemical. Fish oil is also a common industrial chemical. Water is the most common substance used in factories. Being used by industry does not in itself mean anything.
Since this is a discussion about an alternative treatments it is a given that it is not going to be considered a medicine by conventional standards, hence the name.
But whether it can be used to treat disease and whether it can be done safely is the issue that is being discussed. Since we have very little in the way of clinical studies, it makes sense to use whatever information we do have to try to come to some reasonable conclusion. People who are inclined to use alternative treatments are used to proceeding using less than perfect evidence. It is the nature of the beast.
I do not think this experimental treatment is for most people, and should only be used by those who know they are taking an unknown risk and could suffer as a result of that decision. If anyone is using MMS without understanding that risk I urge them to stop immediately.
For the rest of us, we need to keep digging and share whatever information we can find on using this as safely as possible.
Whether it is to be considered a medicine or not really an exercise in semantics. If it kills pathogens then it has a medicinal value. No one is going to officially call it a medicine for legal reasons. An Orange is not a medicine either, but it can cure Scurvy.
Best Regards
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
PLEASE see the new articles that came out today on the fraud/danger that is happening in the supplement world. And these are the ones they actually KNOW about!
Posts: 364 | From California | Registered: Sep 2005
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Truthfinder
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Here's the Abstract of the study that D Bergy linked to:
quote:To assess the relative safety of chronically administered chlorine water disinfectants in man, a controlled study was undertaken. The clinical evaluation was conducted in the three phases common to investigational drug studies.
Phase I, a rising dose tolerance investigation, examined the acute effects of progressively increasing single doses of chlorine disinfectants to normal healthy adult male volunteers. Phase II considered the impact on normal subjects of daily ingestion of the disinfectants at a concentration of 5 mg/l. for twelve consecutive weeks.
Persons with a low level of glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase may be expected to be especially susceptible to oxidative stress; therefore, in Phase III, chlorite at a concentration of 5 mg/l. was administered daily for twelve consecutive weeks to a small group of potentially at-risk glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase-deficient subjects.
Physiological impact was assessed by evaluation of a battery of qualitative and quantitative tests. The three phases of this controlled double-blind clinical evaluation of chlorine dioxide and its potential metabolites in human male volunteer subjects were completed uneventfully.
There were no obvious undesirable clinical sequellae noted by any of the participating subjects or by the observing medical team. In several cases, statistically significant trends in certain biochemical or physiological parameters were associated with treatment; however, none of these trends was judged to have physiological consequence.
One cannot rule out the possibility that, over a longer treatment period, these trends might indeed achieve proportions of clinical importance.
However, by the absence of detrimental physiological responses within the limits of the study, the relative safety of oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide and its metabolites, chlorite and chlorate, was demonstrated.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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Arrow, the product is Dioxychlor - I've used it and posted a little about in on page 3 here in this thread. In fact, I have an old unopened bottle of it and drug it out the other day..... don't know if it will still be good after a few years...... I can tell you that I never experienced anything while taking it like the MMS users have. But you are only supposed to take it a few days, then off a few days..... And it is way more expensive than MMS.
Since you mentioned severe homeopathic `herxes' (aggravations), PLEASE give the `Aggravation Zapper' a try. There is nothing to buy, it is really easy, and has worked for me, my ex-boyfriend, and of course, my homeopath! http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/fuller-aggravation-zapper.asp
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Greatcod
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posted
However, by the absence of detrimental physiological responses within the limits of the study, the relative safety of oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide and its metabolites, chlorite and chlorate, was demonstrated.
The question is about concentrations..sort of like bleach, you can water it down to where it has no impact whatsoever, or concentrated it can kill you. I consider it dangerous to play expert with people's health by describing this stuff as a medicine and declaring it not dangerous. I have no idea who Jim Humble is, or what he knows, or what evidence there is that this stuff works on anything, or is not dangerous in the concentrations used. Lymenet really ought to consider its legal position letting people play doctor with things like this..pathetic.
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Truthfinder
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Ah, free societies..... ya gotta love `em.
Safety is an unknown issue with MMS, especially using it past 3 months or so. I've seen no claims here to the contrary. We simply don't know enough. And as is evident in this thread, those genuinely interested in MMS bring these safety issues up themselves.
By all means, anyone aware of genuine evidence that MMS will harm us, please post about it.
Beyond that, bringing up the safety issues time and again with no new `evidence' is like beating a dead horse, at best. It becomes a speculative debate leading nowhere.
Even if there were hundreds of scientific, peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies done on MMS, I doubt that we would all agree on any final conclusions (if the ILADS / IDSA debate is any indication, and perhaps the debate over the `cause' of Global Warming is another).
I've read several explanations by ``experts'' about why Rife machines can't possibly work. But then there's that pesky evidence out there indicating just the opposite.
Recently, I posted a topic about a rather unprecedented debate on homeopathy taking place on October 25th at the University of Connecticut Medical School. Within that thread, several sources of studies on ``the scientific proofs of efficacy'' homeopathy were cited, and yet not one of the `critical thinkers' even bothered to comment. That was kind of surprising when homeopathy is an oft-maligned system of medicine on this board.
So, I don't know what to think.... were they the wrong kinds of studies? Were they done by the wrong people? (Or were the conclusions just not what the skeptics wanted to hear?) Did anybody bother to watch the debate?
``I buy you books and you eat the covers.'' I think maybe this old saying fits here.
We can only offer you what there is; if that isn't enough then you have the choice of avoiding that particular treatment system.
Mini, I'll repeat what I posted to you in another thread, and perhaps you will comment this time. Greatcod and others, feel free to comment, also.
Some of us have lost faith in science, in general, and peer-reviewed studies and research in particular. When Marcia Angell, a former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, is concerned about it then I tend to be, also.
And I read that a few years ago, the NEJM basically gave up trying to find truly independent doctors to write and review articles for the journal. Then there are the ``ghost writers'' who write articles for the esteemed doctors because the docs have no time to do it. The whole procedure isn't looking very `unbiased' at the moment.
I don't want to divert this thread, but perhaps a different thread would be in order in the near future - started by those of you who understand and trust the system - about why peer-review is so important, how we know when to trust the findings, the reviewers, etc. Just a thought. I know enough to know that I don't know enough about this.
There have been complaints lately about not enough discussions at LymeNet based on `science'. Well, convince me that `science' is where I should put my faith. (And please don't post a link to some study or article - most regular folks can't navigate those studies and understand them. We need a little more help than that.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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D Bergy, you said:
***''Some one posted on another site that Chlorine Dioxide is used by vets quite a lot for treating animals. Usually livestock such as chickens. Not sure if that is the case or not. Can anyone confirm This?''***
I've seen discussions about this over on the MDI Group. What I have seen lately was about research on this, not about any vets/ ranchers/ chicken farmers using it already.
But I think there was some reference in past discussions to ClO2 being used already on animals, but I wasn't paying attention to that topic. I would offer to go back and look for the discussions, but I found it very difficult to search those Yahoo group comments.
If I see anything new, I'll post about it.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Greatcod
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posted
Anyone with Lyme has lost some faith in medical science, no question. But what's the other side of the equation? So many lives lost because of pharmaceuticals, but how many lives saved?
What about all the operations that require drugs to complete successfully, say joint replacements or appendectomies?
Natural medicine provides no substitutes for the thousands and thousands of drugs that Big Pharma manufactures, nor any solutions to literally thousands of conditions that medical science treats with some success.
If you came down with bloodborne MRSA, would you rather be treated with Vancomycin or herbs?
Argueably also, because the true effectiveness of herbs on various conditions has never been studied, we simply don't know how well they work, nor what the long term consequences are. Traditional medicines were not set up to measure and report their effectiveness or side effects of their treatments.
If you want to believe that they are as effective as drugs, that's fine with me. But I have no idea how anyone could actually know that.
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Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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kelmo
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posted
Wouldn't it be better for Lymenet if you moved your Miracle cure to a Yahoo Group club?
This seems to be a cheerleading team of about five people. Most of whom have joined in the last 30 days, and of those, there is no mention of having Lyme.
This isn't productive....it's a promotion.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Just wanted to point out that some strains of MRSA are now resistant to vancomycin. So, I would have to know what kind of MRSA I had to be treated.
I do agree that people using MMS should exercise caution, but if they choose to use it, fine. I look forward to their future reports. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10195 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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D Bergy
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posted
I would think that if MMS does end up working well or badly for Lyme that some of the members of the Lymenet group would be interested in that information.
The other posters that are participating are experienced with MMS or other related treatments. I am sure they have better things to do than hang out here. They are seeking the same answers. If they can help along the way, all the better.
As far as the "cheerleading" goes, once again people who have no experience, expertise or interest in the subject being discussed are derailing the thread. Many complain about it, but it does not seem to change the situation.
I have never gone on a antibiotic thread and started badmouthing the treatment or the results or lack of them. Or the persons way of discussing it, or who discusses it, or what is discussed. I simply have the good sense to stick with what I know and let others do the same.
All I ask is to have one thread here that I could communicate with people who are interested in the same subject without being harassed at every turn. Why is that impossible here? It is not the subjects here that cause the problems. It is the lack of tolerance for anything outside of someones particular box and lack of common courtesy.
This really is about finding effective treatments that are relatively safe. At least that is what it should be about.
The problem seems to be that there is some kind of intolerance to new or novel treatments. If people are going to experiment with it why not get the benefit of their experience? I simply do not understand why those that do not agree with using it or prefer another method of treatment simply cannot ignore the thread that is clearly titled and about MMS.
If you actually look at the potential of a powerful bacterial killer that we know is capable of killing multiple strains of pathogens in other applications you can see why it makes sense to test it out. If it is possible to kill Lyme, coinfections, parasites all in one product think how much simpler and more effective that treatment would be. I have no idea if it can do this, but that is what we are trying to find out.
And since the participants are doing this of there own free will, even though the risks are unknown, it would be a waste not to share the results.
And as I have said several times, this is not for most people and if you are not prepared to suffer the possible consequences of using an unknown treatment than do not do it. And if something bad happens at least others will be discouraged from trying it, if they are aware of it.
Is there something wrong with pursuing a better treatment for Lyme?
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
NatureLover, DGB, Lover, truth and others - you have done a good job of responding to those who have concerns about the product.
Those of you whose purpose it is to bring up warnings about the possible safety issues of this product have done so. Thank you, no need to continue with the exact same warnings. Anyone reading this thread will get it.
If you have NEW information regarding your warnings, then by all means feel free to share it. Otherwise, please appreciate that some members of lymenet would like to hear experiences of those using this product and we have a right to hear those experiences. If you don't want to hear it, then don't continue reading. This forum is set up so that you don't have to read everything. You can avoid reading it by simply NOT opening the thread.
NatureLover, you have one of the more mature attitudes that I've seen on Lymenet. I completely agree. Those who are trying to discuss their experience don't need to feel that they must continue to respond to the same issues over and over.
I've often seen this type of discussion turn into an all out brawl which requires that the thread be deleted and people end up banned.
Good job everyone! This has been a fairly reasonable discussion. With respect, now it's time to move on unless you have something new to add.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
Arrow, thanks very much for posting about your constipation issues, and the lasting effects of the MMS. Constipation (acquired megacolon) is a HUGE issue for me, which is just one reason I was interested in D Bergy's experiences with the MMS. I am interested in all those who report improved GI conditions. Many, many members here suffer GI problems that appear to be directly related to Lyme Disease.
(You didn't comment on my ``Aggravation Zapper'' suggestion, so don't' know if you saw it or just not interested. So, I'll bring it up again here in case you missed it.)
GC, as usual, you state as fact what is clearly only your opinion. If you only knew how dead wrong you are about some things.....
Since there are people involved in this thread with Lyme that are taking MMS, I'll let the moderators decide if they think this discussion is good for LymeNet or not. Those truly interesting in hearing from others about their experiences treating Lyme won't be offended or embarrassed by this topic.
Thanks for the updates, NatureLover. BTW, I never did order any of the citric acid. I decided early on that I would use lemon juice for some of the reasons you stated.
You know, I was thinking today..... I can't say that I've read about anyone else that is taking both the MMS and abx. I don't think Joyce is (Healing in S.C.), and the 2 or 3 Lymies on the MDI group did not mention it so I am assuming they are not either. Have you run across other Lymies doing both?
Also, did you say that your girlfriend won't be starting the MMS for awhile?
BTW, my ex-boyfriend of 6 years ended up testing ultra-high positive for Lyme with the Q-RIBb test. His test was identical to mine. He has developed only a few neuro symptoms, like occasional twitches and tremors, which his doc attributes to the natural `aging process', and of course, offered him some drug to help that if it became `problematic'. Hmmmpf.
Hi, hiker! Thanks for popping in.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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sizzled
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posted
So, let me get this right. You'all are drinking BLEACH?
P.S.
Thank heavens, Greatcod has tried to put some reasoning into this thread!!!!!!!!!!
Welp, I'm outta here!
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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D Bergy
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posted
Thank you for the intelligent input.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Just trying to understand the chemistry here -- any chemistry majors to verify this info?
There is no chlorine (Cl2) in chlorine dioxide (ClO2). Although chlorine dioxide has the word chlorine in its name, the two chemicals have completely different chemical structures. The additional oxygen atom radically changes the molecule and creates completely different chemical behaviors and by-products.
Their differences are as profound as those between hydrogen, the explosive gas (H2), and hydrogen combined with oxygen, which creates dihydrogen oxide (H2O)--commonly called water.
Household bleach has a chemical formula of NaOCl - that is, one atom each of sodium, oxygen, and chlorine -- so different formula than chlorine dioxide.
The FDA has approved the use of Chlorine Dioxide in toothpaste, mouthwash & other dental applications at the appropriate strength. Anything you put in your mouth can get absorbed by the body so this is not sounding so dangerous.
Chlorine Dioxide removes pathogens from surfaces and is a great cleaning product. Vinegar removes pathogens from surfaces and is a great cleaning product. People also ingest vinegar without harm. So just because Chlorine Dioxide is used in disinfecting doesn't prove it's dangerous to ingest.
I am not using this product but I am interested in the experiment here and trying to understand the facts about ClO2.
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Greatcod
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posted
The concentrations are part of the dangerousness problem..how many ppm. Also, it may kill your gut bacteria.
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Thanks, GC. So if anyone does try this it sounds like it would be wise to supplement with probiotics as we do when taking antibiotics.
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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map1131
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Member # 2022
posted
i would love to kill some gut bacteria. The bad bacteria that just seems to be so resistant to abx, rife, etc. In fact this bad bacteria isn't just resistant, is lives and multiplies itself.
I put billions of good bacteria in my gut trying to out number the bad guys and the bad guy always seem to win in the end. This along with the other thousand or so dollars I've spent on something to help my gut down to my colon. The really bad part is I can't identify this bad guy......so I really am at a loss on how to kill it???? No wonder my rife machine hasn't gotten rid of it yet.
This unknown bad bacteria is making my GI a mess. So like D. Bergy and his wife I'm really wanting to find a way to beat it. (The bad bacteria)
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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D Bergy
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I did not find the need to take probiotics during use. I deliberately avoided taking them to see if I would suffer any ill effects.
Once my initial loose stool and D was done with I could take it without any detectable effect.
But it may be different for different people and I do not have Lyme, so taking a probiotic would be a good idea.
Personally, I would not go over 15 drops for anything and start at one always. There is bound to be someone who is chemically sensitive of has a reaction to this like anything else. If you can imagine someone with a peanut sensitivety eating a mitt full of peanuts you get the idea.
A person with Lyme is going to likely react to very low dosages. My wife could not go over three drops and she quit taking it when symptoms became to much for her to be comfortable. You really need to go slow for many reasons. Over doing it seems to be the thing that has caused the most problems particularly with Cancer patients. I do not have the details but Cancer is very touchy using MMS one doctor reports.
He has not heard of any Lyme patients having problems, but these are just incidents that he has heard of and he is not actively investigating MMS use.
Please be careful.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
I've been wondering about MMS as a possible `preventative' immediately after a known tick bite (or other suspect creatures).
I have my own homeopathic `after tick bite, spider bite, and snake bite' remedies, but not everyone will want to use homeopathy.
Many people have reported their horror stories about trying to talk their local duck into prescribing antibiotics after the patient knows they have been bitten. No rash = no treatment, right?
Well perhaps we would all be wise to get a little MMS to keep as a ``tick bite'' remedy. Why not get a jump start on killing pathogens the minute they enter the body?
According to Jim Humble, besides wiping out disease organisms, chlorine dioxide tends to neutralize poisons. So there could be other uses for MMS, as well.
This is from Book One by Jim Humble.......
quote:Almost all substances that are poisonous to the body are to some extent acetic in nature or below the neutrality of the body. The Chlorine dioxide will neutralize many of these poisons. We believe that can be the only explanation why a malaria patient often goes from totally sick to totally well in less than four hours). The poisons that malaria generates are neutralized by the chlorine dioxide at the same time the parasites are killed.
I dosed a dog that was bitten by a rattlesnake I gave him a drink of the solution every 2 hours. The dog seemed to know it would help him and he drank it right down each time I gave it to him. He was okay in a few hours which would indicate that the poison was probably neutralized by the chlorine dioxide.
Granted, most dogs don't die from a rattlesnake bite; nor do most humans, for that matter. But the resulting symptoms and effects of a snake bite can be considered very unpleasant at best, and can be life-threatening.
Likewise, the bite of a Black Widow Spider probably won't kill you, but you will have such awful abdominal cramps for the next couple of days, you might wish you were dead.
And what about Brown Recluse Spiders? I do have a friend who had to have considerable tissue removed from the bite of one of these nasty creatures.
I'm not aware of any studies done on this, so this is pure speculation. We can't know what `poisons' MMS might neutralize. But the implications look promising.
Edit note: Deleted responses no longer applicable.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Greatcod
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posted
That link to heathiertalk apparently has been deleted...wonder why.
posted
Well, I'm not a troll....but think this arguing is useless.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Tutu, I did not mean that *you* were a troll. I believe this is your first post in this thread.
Tutu, it is surprising that you concluded that there was no benefit here when so many of us have outright said that we want to hear about this product. Please read the thread before you recommend that it be deleted. The nastiness is coming from a few people as is plain to see.
Everyone, if the best way to deal with arguing is to delete a thread, there will be very little left in the archives at Lymenet and a small group of people will be allowed to control the content by starting an argument in any topic that they don't want to see discussed. Is that what we want?
The best way for the arguing to stop is for the people who have nothing NEW to add to SOB.
We have heard and addressed your (the people who have voiced concerns about the product) concerns to the best of our ability. We get that you don't approve. Now please let us discuss this in peace.
posted
Sorry....I'll just not read this one. That way the arguing won't bother me.
Pretend I wasn't here!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
All of the comments keep the thread at the top. Never have any trouble finding it.
I do not have too much to report since we are moving and my wife does not want to start back up until we are done. She will probably start again the middle of next week.
One interesting effect she had is that all of her nerves including her spine were affected by the MMS.
After she quit, it took a few days for the nerve pain to go away. It reminded me of the same effect often experienced by MS patient taking Low Dose Naltrexone. At first they have increased nerve pain as the nerves heal, the then later it lessens and usually goes away. Many parallels between Lyme and MS. No wonder diagnosis of one or the other is so difficult. Could even be different forms of the same disease. Yet they are just different enough to keep everyone guessing.
My Crohn's is not giving me any trouble yet. I am surprised that the effect is lasting this long. But I will take what I can get.
Hope every one is doing well and getting well.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Thanks, D Bergy. I must say, I am impressed that your Crohn's has been quiet this long....
NatureLover, I'm so glad you said that this thread was important to you.... I was afraid you were fed up with the negativity and might not even be back.
It's important to me, too.
Thanks for your detailed updates - it all helps to get a real 'feel' for your experience.
As to the taste, didn't Jim Humble say in his book that he adds like 3 spoonfuls of fructose (it might have been sucrose)into his mix to mask the taste? That might be an option to try before switching to the lemon or lime.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
The vinegar method does not taste too good either, but it is tolerable.
I am not sure what an emotional herx is. Maybe this is what you are describing.
My wife had some strange episodes when we first started treating with Cumanda and Samento. She would go off on some minor problem like it was a huge deal and start crying and kind of go off the deep end. This was not in character at all for her and I was glad Klutso warned me about this behavior. I would have thought she was losing her mind otherwise. Luckily for both of us these episodes are a thing of the past.
While my Crohn's is not giving me a problem yet, the MMS did not clear up my psoriasis. I swear it is the most difficult thing to get rid of. It is better than it was originally but will not go away altogether. It actually has some indication of possible blood poisoning. Scratching it raw probably did not help it out any. I will have to have my father look at it. He has had blood poisoning many times, and knows what it looks like.
Can't win them all I guess.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with MMS with us. It's sad that the disruptors here who obviously have no respect for honest debate about a product may have railroaded you off this thread. Don't worry though as this only makes people more curious to learn.
I pray you have success with your treatment for lyme and can reclaim the energy of your youth soon. As you know, the majority of people posting here were interested in your journey with MMS -- you were very generous to discuss it with us and lymenet is diminished by your departure.
If you decide to journal your experiences anywhere else I would like to read about them and I know others would too. Take care.
D Bergy, I am looking forward to your continued posts on this subject. The information coming from someone who has actually taken the product is enlightening and more valuable than a lot of conjecture.
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Why was Nature Lover banned and all her comments on MMS removed. I found them to be very informative. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10195 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Hiker and Looking,
I'm trying to find out what happened here.
At this point, it doesn't make any sense.
I've finally managed to connect with both parties (Arrow and NatureLover), so will see if there's some reason for what has happened.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
i don't understand what happened here. why was naturelover banned? s/he was respectful in all his/her posts here, unlike SOME people on this board who for some unknown reason are allowed to keep posting cruel remarks over and over and over again.
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Ali, I understand your concern. But please bear in mind that in the alternative realm, we simply cannot avoid capitalism. Personally, if I discovered a product that really helped me with my Lyme Disease, Crohn's Disease, or any disorder, heck yes I would be tempted to sell it!!! Just ask Lymetoo - she knows what I'm talking about. And frankly, I would welcome hearing about a product from someone who knows a lot about it - and that might be someone who sells it.
Does that mean a person - a seller - should be banned from LymeNet or from certain discussions? Or that the product can't be discussed or trusted because it may be sold by just regular folks?
LymeNet is concerned about members making money from other people on this forum - either directly or indirectly - and rightfully so. I wholeheartedly support that premise.
And this may be why one member recently got banned from LymeNet. I do not know.
I was going to post Jenifer's recent post about solicitation here at LymeNet, but rather than take up space here, please see Jenifer's thread posted 11/2/07 in Off Topic. She talks about what is allowed and what isn't.
There are some comments and suggestions on that thread, which may be of interest. I just posted there and I encourage others to do the same. Perhaps we can come up with some kind of solution that the Moderators/ Administrators would entertain. Let's put our heads together and see if there isn't some kind of workable resolution.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Apparently a couple of people were banned and their comments deleted. I do not know for what reason, but I did not see anything on this thread that would justify this response.
The politics of this are obviously getting in the way of what should be a simple discussion on a possible new treatment. I think the detracters can proudly say "mission accomplished".
I will keep posting on our results using MMS as long as I am able, whenever we have something to report. If I am banned for some reason, I will not come back. I do not go where I am not welcome. It is not my site, and the owners are free to do as they see fit.
Regarding the selling of MMS. Why is it that the only product that has the unique distinction of having to be given away is MMS? The profit margin is far less than any patentable treatment. The fact that someone is selling it means you can buy it. It does not get much simpler than that. And if lots of people sell it, the price automatically goes down even further from all of the competition. There seems to be a lack of understanding of how a free market works in reality.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Thanks Tracy. If I found something that helped me, I would post the info here to share. I may find things that will help & I will post them as I do, but they're promissing "cures".
Knowing what I know about these creepy little spirochetes, I'd want serious autopsy evidence that those little are truly gone before I'd accept the term "cure" from anyone. That's a very hefty claim and it makes me nervous.
I'm having a heck of a job sorting through what's going on here, as I had previously SOBd.
I decided to look because it seems to have garnered so much attention & apparently something about this thread is causing people to be banned.
Another concern I had seen raised earlier was about claims on the website of having cured AIDS in 3 days? Claims on the website to cure a myriad of different illnesses in very short time frames?
I poked around on the site a little bit & came across some updates on use for cancer & things to do (buy from people) if it's not working.
I also read the FDA's warning on internet scams and frankly, I see so many reasons for concern here I think it's likely not something I would personally try.
Someone had mentioned SeaMinerals. My DH got the check in the mail from the SeaMinerals too.
I'm wondering how the FDA controls the selling of a book. I don't think they can. The people promoting the health claims on the site seem to me to be only selling a book.
There are links to people who are selling the actual MMS, but they seem to avoid direct connection. Perhaps the book's author has a connection to those "seperately" marketing the supplement & that is how the book is given away free for the asking, from the goodness of his heart, with so little profit?
I'm sorry to those of you who are genuinely interested in this supplement. I know we'd all like to find the easy cure to help save each other from this awful disease, but somehow I personally don't think this will be the answer we're hoping/praying for.
This is just my take on this and I would really like to hope that this will work for those of you who are trying it, but it really seems too fishy for me.
As for some thoughts on people being banned here. I haven't a clue what went on, so I'm just throwing out a thought here.
Controversial threads like this one actually draw trolls. They like to get involved with stirring the pot.
I'm thinking that maybe the moderators are weeding through and sorting them out. They seem to be much better at recognizing them than I am. They can mintor activity & IP addresses and determine what was merely presented for the purpose of self-entertainment.
Again, I wasn't watching so I don't know if the banned posters fit the bill.
Those of you who are trying this, I wish you good results. I really do. I just think I'll avoid this one until it gains more recognition, too many red flags for me.
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Ali, you are the type of `skeptic' (for lack of a better term) I appreciate and like to see make posts on threads like this. You are tentative, but search for answers anyway. And when you find something that concerns you, you bring it to everyone's attention in a courteous manner. This is how we find answers; this is how we have decent discussions and dialog.
Every one of your concerns is valid, in my opinion.
Yes, there are claims on the website of diseases like Malaria and AIDS being eradicated in very short time periods. But nowhere will you find that claim about Lyme, not on the website or in Jim Humble's books.
Lyme is a tougher nut to crack, and Humble makes suggestions in his book(s) about this. So, there is nothing `easy' about treating Lyme with MMS, nor should it be expected to be a `quick fix'. But it may be quicker than orthodox methods. That's what we are trying to find out here: if it works, if it is tolerable, how long it takes, the side effects, any dangers if used properly, etc.
Bear in mind, too, that I know of another `alternative cure' going on in Africa for AIDS. In that case, the maker of the `cure' has found that his treatment for AIDS in Africa DOES NOT WORK AS WELL on AIDS in the U.S. or other developed countries. He speculates that this is because those people in Africa who have actually survived to adulthood can do so only because they have such strong immune systems, and because they do not have our modern toxins and contaminants to deal with. Sadly, the mortality rate for children in Africa is horrible.
So, what works on Africans may not work nearly as well on us.
Yes, the website only sells the book, and I believe the proceeds go to the effort in Africa. I can't remember now about that.
Jim Humble can't possibly have connections to all the sellers; literally, I could make it up and sell it if I wanted to.
This is certainly not a treatment for everyone, and particularly not at this time, when so little is really known.
And you are certainly right about trolls being attracted to threads like this.
I've written to Jenifer about what occurred here with folks being banned, since even those who got banned do not know why it happened. I hope that this will be clarified for us in the near future. If nothing else, we need to understand the reasons for the banning so that we don't inadvertently do something to get banned ourselves!
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
UNbelievable!!!!!!!!!!
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
I started backtracking to see if I could figure out who Pam's "UNbelieveable was directed at. I didn't figure it out yet.
I did come across this:
quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder:
Arrow, the product is Dioxychlor - I've used it and posted a little about in on page 3 here in this thread. In fact, I have an old unopened bottle of it and drug it out the other day..... don't know if it will still be good after a few years...... I can tell you that I never experienced anything while taking it like the MMS users have. But you are only supposed to take it a few days, then off a few days..... And it is way more expensive than MMS.
I couldn't find what "arrow" said.
I believe reading on the MMS site that they compared it to Dioxychlor, stating that it was the same thing but stronger??
I followed some links & ended up at an FDA site showing an approval for the use of Chlorine Dioxide, incorporated into packaging for fruits & vegetables. The info in the approval showed that it would not be directly consumed.
I also came across a warning on a Canadian site stating that people were using it for IV?! I know that's not what's being suggested here, thank goodness.
I am a little concerned for your safety with the dosages being ingested.
If the Dioxychlor is approved for marketing, I would think that they have found the dosages & recommendations for use stated on it to be safe.
If you are ingesting higher dosages without breaks would that be OK?
Is it the same as taking the Dioxychlor but in higher dosage for longer time periods without breaks?
Pam, if the UNbelievable was for me, I'm just trying to be helpful but don't have the mental stamina to make it through this thread from start to finish.
I've been caught up in my own perils and am merely trying to look out for those who struggle along with me. Please be patient with my efforts to understand what's going on.
If it was for something else that didn't concern me, then just ignore me please, because I didn't get it. Thanks.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
I'm wondering why, if this kind of benefit is possible with Dioxychlor, THEY haven't marketed it as such.
Sure MMS may be cheaper & stronger than the Dioxychlor, but I can't believe that if these "miracle" 3 less than 1 week cures were possible, the MFG of Dioxychlor wouldn't have been all over it.
I know someone who has been battling AIDS for 18 years and I think that's a pretty tough nut to crack (IMO). I'd rank that right up there with Lyme except it has more attention.
I think that someone out there would be conducting the scientific research necessary to get this stuff to market, just think of all the $$$ they could make on AIDS alone with the right approvals.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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are truly gone before I'd accept the term "cure" from anyone. That's a very hefty claim and it makes me nervous.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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I just think I'll avoid this one until it gains more recognition, too many red flags for me. ![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
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I know that's not what's being suggested here, thank goodness.![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
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