heiwalove
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posted
i may be wrong, but i'm pretty sure the 'UNbelieveable' was directed at the few UNBELIEVEABLY rude detractors in this post, and the fact that naturelover and arrow have been banned & had their posts deleted for no apparent reason. i don't think it was directed at you, ali.
map1131
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Member # 2022
posted
No Ali, it wasn't directed to you at all. I was too angry at that moment to post anything else. So I decided I'd better calm down and use my energy to try to help someone.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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AliG
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posted
Thanks heiwalove.
I think maybe that's part of what's making it tough to follow the conversation here. There's apparently a lot that's been pulled out and it makes it a little confusing.
I started to think maybe I should just drop it and move on but I guess I'm getting a little OCD over figuring this all out.
If noone could really be hurt by it then I really could just butt out & check back later for results, but the Dioxychlor reference on the site & Tracy's post about how that was supposed to be taken have me a little concerned.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
Pardon me for changing the subject, but has anyone noticed that this thread keeps getting smaller....?
.... I think minitails2 has disappeared from here, also.
Oh, drat. I think I heard the plumber pulling up outside.... gotta run.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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AliG
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Thanks Pam.
I get a little nervous lately when I try to be helpful on a controversial thread. I'm always expecting someone to come out of somewhere and yell at me because something didn't come out right and I accidentally offended them.
I do try really hard not to be offensive and to show my genuine concern, so I'm not really sure why I feel that way. I think the board battles are making me a bit paranoid, it feels like walking on eggshells.
I try to re-read my posts before I send them, to see if they can be misinterpreted, though I don't always get to. It can be really stressful getting involved, that's why I've been SOBing a lot.
That's a really good tactic - to avoid posting when you're feeling angry, let yourself diffuse & then come back. Maybe if more people tried that, less feelings would be hurt.
Ali
[ 19. November 2007, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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map1131
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Oh, drat. I think I heard the plumber pulling up outside....gotta run.
Truth, was that a intended pun? Oh, that was run, not runs? Makes sense now. There's nothing like taking two steps forward and three back. (Especially in this day and age)
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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TerryK
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posted
Alig, Thank you for your posts and the concerns you have brought up. I too really appreciate the way that you've brought them up and discussed them in a reasonable and helpful way.
Thanks so much!
A number of posts have been deleted. That's why the conversation is so hard to follow.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
Well, Pam - the pun didn't even apply as it turned out to be the Schwan's guy and not the plumber. So, today, I play the waiting game again..... hoping the plumber will get here. Sheesh. Glad doctors don't function like this.
Actually, Ali, I'm more interested in the IV use of MMS than the oral stuff. I think it may be way more effective. Obviously, you can't do an IV thing at home, though.
I don't know how to answer your questions regarding comparison with Dioxychlor. The people experimenting are going with the dosages that Jim Humble has suggested, and it is certainly far beyond what the Dioxychlor people would recommend. And they can't compete with the cheap prices of MMS out there. I don't remember how long a bottle of Dioxychlor lasted, but it wasn't over about 2 or 3 months, at most, and that was because you took breaks from it. Cost years ago was about $30-$35. A small bottle of MMS will last at least a year at a cost of about $20.
Another `dissolved oxygen' product is Cell Food. I got a 1 ounce bottle but haven't tried it yet. Cost was $26 for a month's supply (but it has added stuff like amino acids).
I don't mean to imply that AIDS is not a tough, serious disease. But the mechanisms of action are a lot different than what most of us are dealing with. Volumes have been written about the complexity of the Lyme bugs, and their ability to evade eradication. Not to mention that awful toxin they produce. That's a tough nut, too. Or maybe we should say it's just a whole different kind of nut!
A note about NatureLover....
As of yesterday, he was feeling pretty good and feels like he is making progress! I really hope he is allowed to return and finish what he started - logging his experiences. Especially since he's the only person I know of doing both abx and the MMS.
We shall see. I hope anyone interested in finding out what happened will write to Jenifer. I won't post a thread about it unless I have to. Those types of threads just draw nasty comments, and we've had our fill of those.
Depending on what happens, we may have to `clean up' this thread so it will make sense. Meaning, that we could edit content from our posts that no longer have any bearing on the discussion. And I can repost NatureLover's experiences if I have to. Ugh. But it can be done.
Well, better go get dressed in case the plumber actually shows up this time.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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AliG
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posted
Terry,
The way I see things right now, I have only begun to fight these little buggers. I had used herbal/nutriceuticals for many, many years prior to my Dx.
I self-Txd symptoms using a combo of "Alternative Medicine - the Definitive Guide", "Prescription for Neutritional Healing", "Complete Guide to Vitamins, Minerals & Supplements", "The New Guide to Remedies", internet research and two different Health Food Store "Gurus" (for lack of a better word).
I have adapted & fought back against chemical sensitivities and found different means for cleaning things around my home. I have been through zillions of products for personal care. I found "Haley's Hints" & "Haley's Cleaning Hints" to be helpful resources there.
Essential oils of Lavender, Citrus and Eucalyptus are pretty much the only scents that do not seem to make me feel the need to vomit.
I went to my LLMD armed with a large suitcase containing my stockpile of survival tools, just in case he tried to tell me I couldn't possibly have had Lyme as long as I think "because I don't LOOK sick enough, I'd look much sicker". (I took that one from the ID after I spent 5 hours trying to make myself presentable for my appt.)
I am on ABX right now & have been for over a year. I realize that many people have come to a point where the ABX, for one reason or another, just aren't cutting it anymore. There, but for the Grace of God, go I.
I'm being very lazy right now and only really doing ABX, Probiotics and minimal supplements. I am so freaking tired. I just needed desperately to take a break for a while & let the LLMD worry about me. It's so nice to have a shoulder to lean on.
As I am presently on IV ABX, my conservative LLMD's absolute last ABX resort, I may need to regroup & get back in the alternative game at any time. I really don't know where I am headed.
I REALLY, TRULY appreciate those who are trying other avenues sharing their information with me. I look at each potential new treatment being considered by someone here as something I may want/need to consider someday myself.
I try to give the same consideration I would give if I were thinking about doing it myself because I don't know what my future holds.
I see those who share their thoughts and experience in trying alternatives as people who are taking risks so I won't have to take the risk myself someday. As such, I'd like them to have the benefit of whatever research I might do to try to protect myself.
I think we all have a more vested interest in "first doing no harm", so to speak. Most of us have already been dealt enough harm either physically or emotionally. Especially those who have done as much ABX as they could handle and are still needing alternative support.
I certainly understand the hypersensitivity to criticism. I go there often myself. I don't appreciate when it gets sent my way when I'm trying to be helpful, but I think I've really only had that happen once and it still hurts. That doesn't mean that I'm going to take out my pain and frustration on everyone else, especially those who have done nothing to hurt me.
We all have our own level of desperation in trying to find what works for us with whatever strength & resources we have. I believe that if we work together and support each other, we can help keep as few of us as possible from being hurt on the road to finding those answers.
If I get to the point that I have to start trailblazing, I hope that others will give me the same support and give me the benefit of their questions and answers in trying to help keep me from hurting myself. I'm still leaning on everyone else right now. (so thanks for the use of your shoulders )
The information that I gain from researching the considerations of others also gives me a better base of knowledge to draw on for my own personal use.
While I like to sometimes rely on the knowledge of those I know, trust and respect, people who have been fighting this battle much longer than I have, I still like to learn and develop my own knowledge.
I say "thank you" to those who are trailblazing and trying new things. I also say PLEASE be careful. I don't want to see any of us hurt any further and I certainly don't want to see anyone taken advantage of. That would break my heart.
If I ever looked at this thread somewhere down the road and saw something posted like "this stuff destroyed my insides" or "it gave me permanent brain damage" and I hadn't managed to find some time to do a little reasearch and offer any cautions I could find, I'd never forgive myself.
I want to good results posted & I pray someone finds an easy answer. I also pray that no one gets hurt, because that is MY biggest fear, being hurt.
The more damage we do to ourselves through trying things we're told will work, alternative OR ABX, the less we are able to mount a good fight.
My personal strengths & weaknesses of body and mind will be different from many here, based on my own level of infection & the duration of my illness.
If I offer information from my own perspective, it is information that I would feel is valuable. It may not be as valuable to someone else whose in a different state of health/illness.
I value greatly the input and perspective of others. It helps me feel better about the choices I make. So I thank all of you who share with me.
Ali
PS- I'm sorry for rambling in this post. I'm very nervous right now about a glitch in my Tx and I tend to ramble when I am nervous about things.
I am trying to research the sulfoxime & dioxychlor and, with the MMS being a stronger version of dioxychlor, any info posted on dioxychlor I would think should apply here as well.
I'm not going to post a link to this thread over there because this thread's been way too confusing for me & I STILL haven't read the whole thing yet.
Who knows - if I wait long enough, I may not have much left to read after all. (Thanks Lou, for weed patrol )
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
Truthfinder,
I hope you'll pass along any relevent info to NatureLover. I hope he continues to feel better.
Your reference to Cellfood made me remember that I have some in my cabinet. I have the Cellfood DNA RNA cell regeneration formula. It's a 1oz spray and cost $40. I think I got it for the ATP?
It has other things in it too - mostly B vitamins, DNA & RNA bases, ATP, Cellfood, Glycine, TMG (?have to look that one up), L-Glutamine, L-Serine, L-Lysine, L-Proline(?), L-Aspartic Acid, -listed as "other ingredients": deionized H2O, potassium sorbate, grapefruit seed extract, glycerine & natural flavoring.
I think I took it once & I don't remember what happened. I know I had taken a few new things at once & it wasn't pretty ( stupid, stupid, stupid!). I never went back & tried it again.
Maybe I will once I look those two things up.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
TMG (trimethylglycine), also known as anhydrous betaine, is found in a variety of plant and animal sources and is used in the conversion of homocysteine to methionine.
Maintaining normal homocysteine levels is important for the health of the cardiovascular system.
TMG has been shown to help protect the liver and raise S-adenosylmethionine (SAM-e) levels, in animal studies.
L-Proline is an amino acid that is essential for the synthesis of collagen, the most abundant protein in mammals.
Collagen is the main structural protein that constitutes all human connective tissues, including skin, tendons, ligaments, joints, bone and vasculature (veins and arteries).
L-Proline therefore provides building blocks that help to stabilize and strengthen the structural components of the body.
Apparently my distractibility is up too. Sorry for the sidetrack.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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D Bergy
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Member # 9984
posted
Here is a portion of a comment from Jim Humble concerning Dioxychlor(TM) which apparently is the same chemical as MMS but somewhat weaker.
If Dioxychlor is safe enough for infusions, and is the same chemical as MMS, I do not see a whole lot of safety concerns regarding oral use of MMS as long as it is used as directed. That is my opinion.
D Bergy
I want to mention just one of those papers as it is my favorite research paper. Here is several excerpts from it. I wish I could show you the entire paper, but it is copyrighted, however, you can buy the paper from the Bradford Research Institute. The paper is called "War against Microbes." It tells about Dioxychlor(TM) a trade marked commercial chemical consisting of the exact same chemical as MMS. It has been in use for more than 15 years. These are the excerpts:
"The following is a description of the characterization and mechanism of action of Dioxychlor(TM), researched and developed by American Biologies(TM), as relates to its antiviral, antibacterial, antimycoplasmal and antifungal activities. Dioxychlor(TM) has been in clinical use for over fifteen years with tens of thousands of infusions at the Amerian Biologies(TM) Intergrative Hospital and Medical Center as well as other clinics and hospitals throughout the world.
To understand fully the action of Dioxychlor on target organisms, it is necessary to describe in detail the chemical structure of this oxidant as well as the biochemical structure of substances found in these target organisms with which Dioxychlor(TM) interacts. These targets include viruses (the nucleic acides, RNA, DNA), bacteria and fungi."
Dioxychlor(TM) is available on the Internet for sale and the entire scientific paper is available as well. The formula although somewhat weaker than MMS is the exact same chemical. (TM stands for Trade Mark). Go to Google and search Dioxychlor. Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
Well said, AliG.
And please believe that those of us interested in trying MMS want to know the TRUTH about it as much or more than anybody else. We just don't want to see the positive findings or the negative aspects sensationalized - either way is not helpful.
Hmmm..... your Cell Food has a lot more stuff in it than mine does....
Thanks for the info, D Bergy. I was going to post that this was used at the American Biologies Integrative Hospital, but you beat me to it.
And now a treat for all of you..... an update from NatureLover! I'll put that in a separate post.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
(I'm going to leave this post blank - I may need the space to re-create NatureLover's earlier updates.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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UPDATE From NATURELOVER 11-20-07:
If you'd like, you can let AliG know that there's no need for anyone to "pass on the relevant information" to me because I can still see the thread. In any case, I do appreciate AliG's concern but I can't think of anything that anybody could say really at this point that would get me to stop taking it. I don't want to go back to the way I felt before, even if the way I feel now is representative of a clinically unhealthier state - which I don't see how it could be.
At this point I've been on the MMS 12 days and I just can't think of anything I could see in writing that would rival what I am feeling. I am just feeling so much better in nearly every category; more than 50% improved in my more annoying categories - like my feet and my anxiety/paranoia, and I haven't really run into any downswings in my "cycles" as I call them - the rollercoaster up and down that I was having before with my symptoms.
I definitely still have symptoms but they are all being lessened and except for one day when I didn't really take care of myself and didn't get much sleep I haven't lost any significant ground since I've been on the MMS. And I still have a lot of ramping up to do to get to the 2 or 3 15 drop doses a day that are recommended all over the place.
Currently I'm still taking 12 drops once a day. I should probably be breaking those up into at least 2 doses, but it just tastes so gross that it takes a lot of convincing myself to take even just one dose...then afterwards I always think "oh that wasn't so bad," but the smell has become familiar and has started to make me queasy before I drink it. Interesting since I've still never felt nauseas or queasy after taking the dose.
I still lose a little more hair in the shower than usual, but the drain is not clogged after one shower anymore. Last night I did wake up sweating mildly a few times, and I'm not sure if that is a result of Babs or Bart or perhaps I was just too hot - I did remove my heavier down comforter at one point and woke up a few hours later to put it back on again because I was chilly.
My feet are still somewhat red/discolored (as they have been since mid-August), but I was getting like these ulcers on the bottom of my feet and the bottoms of my toes felt like the entire part that touched the ground was a giant blister for a few weeks previous to my starting the MMS.
The ulcers are completely gone, but there is still a mark from one, a sore that my doctor called a sign of endocarditis a few weeks ago - but that sore does not hurt anymore, and I had another one in my mouth on my gumline which is totally gone now. A few spots on my feet are still occasionally sensitive but it is no thing compared to what felt like total rope-burn over the entirety of the bottom of my foot before.
I must say also that I am still taking 200mg of Doxy twice a day and have been for about a month and a half and I have about a month left of that treatment. I'm also on Malarone, one 250/100 pill a day that I've been on for as long as I've been on the Doxy and I have never thought that it has ever done much but I will keep taking it since I spent 400 bucks on a two months supply.
I am also taking herbs, right now primarily Hawthorn, Spirulina and Chlorella, as well as occasional Cat's Claw and the occasional whatever else. I'm becoming somewhat of an amateur herbalist, but what I mentioned by name are the only things I'm taking regularly.
Anyway, the Hawthorn could be at least partially responsible for the disappearance/ lessoning of my endocarditis symptoms, as it is supposed to be the best cardiac herb there is because it is (according to Stephen Buhner) the only herb or drug which slows the heart and makes the beats more powerful - in other words it makes the heart more efficient. All other cardiac herbs and drugs make the heart beat faster, more often; they're stimulants and therefore can wear your heart out over time. Apparently Hawthorn makes your heart stronger and stronger for the longer you take it and so I wouldn't be surprised if it is what's getting rid of my endocarditis symptoms.
The Spirulina and Chlorella are basically for immune fortification and the binding of endotoxins, as well as for keeping my system cleared out - they're great at taking out all the trash before anything can get clogged up - and even after stuff already has been clogged, like we saw with my lymph node problem about a week ago, which is now totally resolved as if it never happened.
Anyway, yes I am taking plenty of other stuff besides the MMS and I am trying to make sure that I eat right and get enough sleep. I'm a writer so I pretty much work from home on my computer and that's a great plus for me because it means I don't have to stress myself out over a 9-5 job; which would probably have killed me a long time ago.....
.....anyway, I just want to make sure everybody knows that it could be entirely a coincidence that all of this improvement has just happened to coincide with the last 12 days since taking the MMS since I am trying to do everything else right, and I am taking other things - but I would also point out that at this point it would be nearly impossible for anyone to convince me to stop taking the MMS for any reason. I plan to take it until I have been symptom free for two months, like many do with antibiotics. Then I'll keep a bottle around just in case.
Sorry this has been so long, I didn't realize I was going to be doing an update until I was halfway done haha. Oh well, I guess I get excited talking and thinking about my condition. Feel free to post any of this for those on LN if you'd like.
Take Care, Send all the LN'ers my best! NatureLover
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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AliG
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posted
I'm so glad that NatureLover is feeling better.
Since I haven't seen any of NatureLovers postings, may I ask how long he's been sick that he doesn't feel that any of his improvements may be attributed to the Doxy & Malarone?
I definitely felt major improvements when I took Zithro & Mepron initially for Babs, and I think it was around the same time frame in Tx.
I'm editing this to add a thought. I didn't want to get this whole thing started all over again, but I made an observation that I think we may learn a lesson from.
I think the reason this thread may have become so inflammatory could have had to do with the choice of Topic title. IMO "Is it Hooey" was asking for MMS to be discredited.
Perhaps "What does anyone think about MMS?" might have gotten more thoughtful input from both sides, siting reasons for opinions.
It might be helpful, in the future, to consider the kind of responses you want when you title the thread. If you genuinely want pros AND cons, try to ask for them.
Just posting to ask for negatives could prove to be hurtful or insulting to someone who has already taken an independant interest in something.
[ 23. November 2007, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
Ali, hopefully NL will answer your questions - I haven't heard from him for awhile. I don't remember exactly how long he has been sick, but not very long as I recall.
Like NL said, he didn't see much improvement until he started adding the MMS, but there's always the possibility that it could be some kind of coincidence......
One other comment - I agree with NL about the Hawthorn. This is an amazing `herb', although I hesitate to use that term because it is actually ONLY the Hawthorn berries that were used for treatment historically. In this country, however, if you buy Hawthorn, you usually get an extract/ tincture made from the berries, flowers and leaves. There are also different varieties, and the most beneficial appears to be Crataegus-oxycantha.
Hawthorn is a true heart `tonic' - it simply strengthens the heart action. It can lower high blood pressure, but if you don't have high blood pressure, it won't cause it to drop. That's not the way it works.
I've been using it off and on for several months - when my heart issues (palpitations, fainting spells) go away, I forget to take it! I tend to have low blood pressure, and if anything, my blood pressure is often more normal now than it ever was. My instructions (not those on the bottle) were to take 5 drops in a bit of water twice a day. Most people just don't need more than that, unless perhaps you have very watered-down product. Very economical, and very helpful to me.
In the update department......
As of about a week ago, the word is that Joyce (Healing in Santa Cruz) was not doing very well. Joyce has Lyme and was taking the MMS and improving.) Here's what NL reported:
``.....apparently they have been spraying Santa Cruz with some kind of pesticides or something and she has chemical sensitivities........ Also, the last I heard she was not taking the MMS anymore because she was suffering quite a bit from the spraying, but she was considering starting it up again anyway after talking with her doctor.''
I really hope this didn't set her back too far. She was pretty excited about her improvement. I think she is still without a computer, too, so hopefully she will get back online and update us herself one of these days.
There is now an MMS forum over at CureZone. On page 3 of the discussion, one of the posters has gathered together some of the `testimonials/ experiences' posted there and elsewhere..... scroll down the page..... I think the topic starts off with something about ``breast cancer''. Curezone is a bit strange to navigate, and you have a choice of 2 different views of the comments. Anyway, here is the link if anyone wants to check it out. (Note that with CureZone, a link will take you to the same page in the discussions every time, so you have to update your link or click on the next page when a new one is created. Odd, but that's what I've found.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
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I really hate the format of CureZone. But, I guess I will take a look. Thanks for the link.
I have started using MMS for four days. Ten drops as a maintenance dose. It also seems to have shortened a nasty strain of cold I caught.
I started getting a sore throat Saturday night after my first dose. Gone completely by Tuesday night with very slight symptoms in between. It appears to work on viruses as well.
My father and mother have had a cold for over a month. My mother caught pneumonia during the cold and is taking antibiotics. My coworkers have also had this, and it lasts for a couple of weeks at least.
I also used Citric Acid for the first time as an activator. I thought the vinegar mix tasted bad. This mix is barely tolerable. I may have to start mixing it with juice instead of water.
My wife has also started back up. She started at two drops and has increased back to three and is also using the Citric Acid activator.
Her herxes have lessened since the last time. She had to stop last time because it was so bad. I think she may be able to take four drops tonight.
I just hope this is not just making the Lyme dormant like the Samento and Cumanda did. I am trying to figure out if it is killing Cyst form or just Spirochete. Hard to know for sure.
The herx is different than any other she has had. It is almost all Joint and nerve based and worst in the spine. I hope it is because that is where the Cysts are.
I am going under the following Hypothesis to try to figure this out.
If she can ramp up to fifteen drops and stay there without any reaction for a three weeks, we will discontinue treatment and assume the Lyme is eliminated. If it does not come back after several months, I think we can say it killed the Cyst form. She has never gone longer than about a month without symptoms. Usually joint pain.
Even if it comes back after several months, I think we can assume it killed most of the Cysts, but not all of them. Then it is a matter of treating long enough, I hope.
If it comes back within a couple of months, I will have to believe it is because it is not killing the Cyst form.
We will find out more as we go.
Best Regards
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Several people on other forums who are using MMS have said that they herx but do not have nausea or diarrhea for several weeks and then whammo the diarrhea hits them. They are theorizing 2 things--one is that the MMS is killing the lyme and producing so many toxins that the diarrhea is eliminating and two that the MMS is killing some of the cysts or L form and allowing the spirochetes out and then they feel worse. These are just theories, but worth thinking about.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10195 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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D Bergy
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For me the diarrhea did not start until I took around seven or eight drops. Maybe it just takes a certain dose to kill any amount of intestinal bacteria. It would be helpful to know how much the others were taking at the time the diarrhea started.
After a while, it does not matter how much you take, it just does not produce this reaction anymore. That is with a person that does not have Lyme.
It could be different with this disease.
Thank you for the information. There is a lack of it concerning Chlorine Dioxide and Lyme disease.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
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D Bergy, I hate the CureZone format, too, but believe me, it beats the heck out of the Yahoo group stuff which I've been trying to follow for weeks now.
I suspect I would have a very similar reaction to your wife's pain - spine, joints, and nerves. Sounds awful, but I do need to know what to expect.
I've also heard the same comments about the taste of the citric acid..... people are using all kinds of things now to mask the taste - everything from fresh vegetable juices to prune juice, etc. I guess the prune juice masks the flavor pretty well (but it might contribute to the diarrhea aspect).
Hiker, I've rarely seen what you describe on the other forums where I've been lurking. What I do see, however, are people who think they can ramp up more quickly because they've not had any nausea up to that point, and then it hits them when they go a little faster. Maybe the Lyme factor makes a difference here, as you suggested.
Or, as someone posted this week, they were up to 15 drops once a day, and then decided it would be fine to do 15 drops TWICE a day. (!!!) Wrong! Sometimes it takes a couple of days but they become very ill. It seems that the rule of thumb is that if you decide to take this more than once a day, then divide the original single dose in half and maybe add 1 drop.
Also, lots of people are learning to use the `baking soda' antidote at the first sign that they might be close to the `vomit' threshold, and this has saved many from being sick. And of course backing down slightly on the dose for a couple of days is part of that process, too.
I've gathered up some notes from the MDI Yahoo group. I'm trying to figure out how to paraphrase them so that I don't step on any toes out there by telling someone's story without permission.
I know it is difficult for people reading this thread to go sort through posts on other sites, so I'll see what I can come up with that perhaps won't encroach on anyone's liberties. There are a lot of stories that are being cross-posted by 2nd parties in more than one forum, and since most of these are public forums, that is probably okay. I just don't want to offend anybody.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Excerpts from posts regarding MMS and Lyme Disease on the MDI Yahoo Group: (Note: Anyone can join this group and review these original posts themselves.)
[From someone with Lyme after 7 weeks of using MMS]:
quote:.... I had 3 tiny painful sores on my tongue for about two years now, nothing I nor my doctor did helped... very painful.... When I started MMS, I decided I would take a sip and hold it in my mouth for a minute or so before swallowing.. .. I no longer have any sores on my tongue, the pain is completely gone ... The only change in my treatment protocol was the addition of MMS....
....I was dealing with the worst fatigue and brain fog for the past 6 months. Seven weeks of MMS and now my fatigue and brain fog are much better ...... I've been spending some time working out in my yard, something I haven't done in the past 6 months...
I definitely feel there is a benefit for anyone with Lyme disease using MMS ... I am under the care of a few doctors at the Mayo Clinic and just yesterday I had a physical exam of my thyroid, all was normal... I will test for TSH, T4 and T3 at the end of the month.....
I am pleased so far with the results of MMS.... I am using salt/c, rife and MMS and feel each protocol is contributing collectively to my present positive results... I use more than one protocol as I feel the battle with Lyme disease is better served with a multi killing approach....
[a second-hand report of using MMS and Rife for Lyme]:
quote:I have been using MMS and Rife Treatment on a friend of mine with Lyme disease. On her first lyme test she scored the second highest levels that the lab had ever seen. Her last test shows her levels to be normal with only the co infections showing up. Those were at a low level also.
MMS and Rife treatments seem to be getting her lyme to die off! The results so far a promising!
[regarding Lyme, MMS, and Paradophilus]:
quote:I read a Q& A with Humble and he said he had success with Lyme but they needed to supplement with some new special formulation of probiotic invented by a person he gave the # but I did not write it down.....
...... "I have worked with a couple of ladies who have lyme disease and are now feeling better. They really didn't begin to feel better until they began taking a new product called Paradophillus. They feel that it allows the MMS to penetrate much deeper into the body. You might talk to the inventor. His name is Jeff Maehr and phone is 970 731-9724."
I'm going to start with the Paradophilus and use that for a few months first. From what I read and understand, the Paradophilus (which Jim [Humble] recommends using in conjunction with the MMS), is supposed to do a lot of what the MMS does, but with less nausea/diarrhea (though you still can get it)........ The stuff is expensive. I hope it does what everyone is raving about. A lot of other message boards on the net are raving about this stuff.
Paradophilus should be taken on an empty stomach, 15 minutes before meals or 2 hours after. It contains some probiotics of its own; so, I assume it is quite friendly to good bacteria.
[another reference to using the Paradophilus with MMS for treating Lyme]:
quote:....Jim Humble advises going very slowly with Lyme and perhaps using multiple small doses [obviously, starting with 1 drop or less]....... A few of us on www.planetthrive. com are also discussing our experiences of trying it for Lyme should you want to have a look......Jim H said that 2 women with Lyme began to show more improvement after adding the probiotic Paradophilus to their treatment plan, alongside the MMS......
I thought the above information might be of interest, especially since some people are using other treatments along with the MMS, and the fact that more and more people are talking about and starting to use the Paradophilus.
Since this is a Lyme website, I won't post actual excerpts from other stories. But I would like to comment that there are a few first-hand reports of ailments being greatly helped by MMS like life-long asthma, long-standing bronchitis, Fibromyalgia, Hepatitis C, and a few `ailments' of unknown origin. There was even a report of a very ill $7,000 stud dog constantly on abx, losing great patches of hair, had kidney stones, prostate problems, inability to mate, been seen by several vets, the owner was ready to put the dog down..... after 6 weeks of MMS, the dog has most of his hair back and is running around like a normal dog.
All I can say is that while it is still too early to draw any definite conclusions, the MMS does appear to warrant some attention. And when it comes to using it for animals, I think we can rule out the placebo effect.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy, I found an article posted by a vet on another MMS forum about feeding sodium CHLORATE to livestock to kill E. coli and salmonella. Granted, it isn't about sodium chlorite, so not sure how relevant it might be:
Also, I've seen two other posts from Lymies using MMS that also complained of spine pain, similar to what your wife experiences.
I've heard from NatureLover, so I'll post some updates soon (hopefully, today).
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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UPDATE FROM NATURELOVER 12/4/07
I am doing really well, actually! I stopped antibiotics almost 2 weeks ago and have just been doing MMS, acidophilus, hawthorn, spirulina and chlorella. I am doing really, really well.
I am really excited though, I am making a lot of progress, pretty rapidly. I did have a minor setback at first when I stopped the antibiotics but I was able to get that under control pretty quickly. My feet are in the best shape they've been in for a month or two!
I really have a lot of hope surrounding this MMS; it is the most effective thing I've taken. My endocarditis symptoms are still nonexistent. My feet are doing really well and I just feel better in general. I still do have symptoms but it seems like they are becoming more manageable and less incapacitating.
I am up to a 15-drop dose twice a day, which apparently most Lymies can't handle. I find that I do get nausea when I take a 15-drop dose on an empty stomach.
NatureLover
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D Bergy
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Thanks for the info Truthfinder.
The Chlorine Dioxide is becoming tolerable to my wife after a rough start. Her spine pain and other joint pain is receding even though she has increased to five drops. She will increase to six tonight.
I mixed some with Citric Acid and tap water. This does not appear to work as well for some reason. I am going to try it with distilled water. Possibly our city water is too alkaline and is neutralizing the Citric Acid. From all the info I have read, the Citric Acid should work better as an activator. We cannot confirm that at this time as our experience is the opposite.
I am not sure if the reduction in symptoms is because of Lyme dormancy, or reduction in all forms of Lyme. It will take a longer time to know the answer to this question.
I look forward to the report from NatureLover.
Thank you.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Addendum FROM NATURELOVER 12/5/07 [Info on Joyce and answering AliG's questions]
Joyce [Healing in Santa Cruz] is still without a computer, she had stopped taking the MMS for a bit when they did some spraying of something in the area where she lives. She has chemical sensitivity so that was really rough for her, but then within a week or two she was back up to 15 drops 2X a day again and she is doing better now. I think she had one adverse reaction and she stuck it out for 10 hours or so and then finally couldn't take it anymore and took Vitamin C, which Humble recommends in case one can't handle the MMS. She said she was fine after that.
[Regarding Ali's questions] I have been unignorably ill since mid-August when I found myself in the Emergency Room with disseminated rashes all over my body; a few of them bullseyes - and a left foot that looked so crazy my PCP thought I had renal failure or diabetes, and she refused to treat me because she wanted my foot looked at in the ER.
I had been on antibiotics from mid-August until about 2 weeks ago. I do remember getting a rash before then and I was sick though I didn't put the pieces together since before mid-August. I would say I was actually bitten anywhere from May to late July.
I did have a little set-back about a week after I stopped taking the antibiotics in which it looked like I was losing ground, but I didn't lose ground to where I had been before I started taking the MMS, and I think that I was more frightened than anything else. I have been taking the MMS all the way through and I am continuing to improve.
It is slow but finally my range of symptoms has stopped expanding - whenever I thought I was improving with the antibiotics (except during the initial 3 weeks) it always seemed like my individual symptoms were getting milder but that there were getting to be more of them. Now it seems like the symptoms I do have are getting milder or slowly disappearing one by one and I have not noticed any new symptoms.
I do not think that my improvement is totally separated from the pharmaceuticals I took; I think just the opposite. For several months I would have been unable to cope with life in the absence of antibiotics, and I think the antibiotics I was on did significantly reduce the rate at which I was degenerating. I am not saying they didn't help; they definitely did. I have no intention of saying that the MMS has done what it has done for me on its own. I can't even definitively say it was the MMS, of course, but to me the coincidences just seem unignorable.
I won't be writing anything in any peer-reviewed scientific journals (for among other reasons, I'm not a Dr. or a Scientist). The evidence I have that MMS has been beneficial to me is almost certainly not enough to convince anyone in the mainstream or any official sources; but the evidence is good enough for me, and good enough that I will tell people that MMS is PROBABLY beneficial for Lymies - at least in the short term.
I have seen somebody say "well, I would hate to see a post from you someday that said 'mms gave me permanent brain damage,' or 'mms liquefied my internal organs' or something like that. Well, I'd hate to see a post like that too. I don't know much about Cl02, but I do know that it's not natural and probably not the best thing to be consuming for long periods of time (or maybe at all).
But I would point out that 1) neither are antibiotics and 2) when I was making the decision to try this it was the LYME that was in the process of giving me permanent brain damage, and liquefying my internal organs. At least with MMS, if I see adverse effects I can stop taking it at any time and therefore stop it from doing more damage - with the Lyme I don't have that option; as long as the Lyme lives it will increasingly do more damage.
If I knew that MMS DID give people permanent brain damage and that it DID liquefy people's internal organs but that it would kill the Lyme for good - I would take it anyway until the Lyme was dead so that my real problem would be solved.
The problem with Lyme - as I see it - is not that the assaults my body endures on any given day are particularly devastating; my body has overcome some remarkable injuries that it has sustained from the Lyme. The problem for me is that the Lyme is alive and it keeps assaulting my body over and over again, and since that's the case and I can't seem to kill it with any of the conventional methods that I've tried, I have no problem trying something else that's cheap (free actually for a sample bottle - a several month supply - if you go to the source Humble recommends in book 1) and reportedly effective.
When coincidentally or not I start healing like I haven't healed since the first 3 weeks on antibiotics, I am excited to tell others who are still suffering about my experiences.
I will end this now but I am really excited, and hope everything is going really well for you!
NatureLover
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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[I asked NatureLover about the taste of the MMS when taking the 15 drops, and I also asked what his current `mixture' was.]
NATURELOVER'S RESPONSE 12/5/07
Agreed, 15 drops tastes pretty lousy. My current mixture is 15 drops of the MMS (distilled water and 28% sodium chlorite, according to the bottle), 75 drops of 10% citric acid solution (I made that myself by mixing citric acid crystals from the health food store with 9 times as much water). I then wait at least three minutes for the mixture to turn itself into Cl02 and then add as little juice as absolutely necessary for me to tolerate the taste.
I find I cannot take it without the juice, it's just too disgusting. I use any juice that doesn't have added vitamin C or High Fructose Corn Syrup. Right now I'm using Nature's Promise Pomegranate Juice and it is the best taste-masker I've had so far; Apple juice was not as good, but still far better than the MMS on its own. I think the slight sourness of the pomegranate juice helps distract from the taste of the MMS.
Also, I have noticed that for the higher doses of MMS, like 12-15 drops it is better for me to take the morning dose after I have eaten something. I can handle it on an empty stomach but it can definitely cause nausea. I can't handle it if I take a high dose on an empty stomach and THEN eat something.
I vomited on Thanksgiving from that, which was needless to say quite embarrassing. I have only had one episode of vomiting (the one on Thanksgiving) and one episode of diarrhea (which I will find my notes and send them your way).
Happy healings, NatureLover
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
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My wife is up to 9 drops and her reactions are now very slight to the treatment.
In the beginning she stopped taking it for a while at three drops because almost all her joints hurt so badly. She described her spinal pain as feeling as if her back was breaking.
Now she only has slight pain in her thumb joints. I am speculating that the MMS has done its job in the main part of the body either eliminating or greatly reducing the Lyme bacteria. Now it is getting to the peripheral areas.
She has not yet had the Diarrhea that almost always happens at some point. If she has it at the same point I did, it should be coming at about ten to eleven drops.
I can only hope that it is killing the cyst form and not driving the Lyme into dormancy. It will be a period of months before I will know the answer to that. But, so far so good. She has more energy than I do and feels well at this time.
I am no longer taking MMS myself as I am now on Low Dose Naltrexone for my Crohn's Disease.
That is all for now.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Cobweb
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"I am doing really well, actually! I stopped antibiotics almost 2 weeks ago and have just been doing MMS, acidophilus, hawthorn, spirulina and chlorella. I am doing really, really well. " NatureLover
I am doing really really well, too-and I don't take MMS. I am still on antibiotics-high doses-no herxing-just feeling better and better everyday.
I also get a new pillow every 6 months-seriously-we subject ourselves to untold amounts of mold and bacteria whenever we lay our heads down on the breeding ground of an old pillow-even if we do change the pillow case every week.
D Bergy
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I am glad you both are doing well. It is always nice to hear some positive news on Lyme treatments, whatever method used.
What antibiotics are you using Cobby?
D Bergy
[ 13. December 2007, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: D Bergy ]
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
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Cobby, that is really terrific news!
And as you said, "to each his own".....
You know, somewhere in my reading on MMS lately, someone stated that treatment for Lyme takes about a year.....
D Bergy, did you see that somewhere, too?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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D Bergy
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I have heard the year time frame also. I do not know where that figure comes from. I also do not know of anyone who has actually been using it that long either.
I think most any treatment time has to take into account the variables involved with the person who is sick.
If MMS works on all forms of Lyme bacteria, it should take less time than that if your are able to take a full dose. At least that is my guess.
If it does not, then who knows how long, but a year would be a good place to start.
I really do not want her on it for that long.
D Bergy
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UPDATE FROM NATURELOVER 1/26/08
I'm not doing that well at the moment actually. Not because of the MMS, but because I haven't been very good about taking it for probably the past 2 or 3 weeks and I think the Lyme is reminding me now that it isn't gone yet.
I know I was going to wait until I had been symptomless for 2 months before I stopped taking it but that didn't happen as it just tastes so gross and I felt so good that I made the dumb mistake of pretending I never had Lyme; I stopped taking the MMS strictly and had a few nights of drinking and so forth to ring in the new year.
I'm still doing a thousand times better than I had been before taking the MMS, but I am a little down that some of my milder symptoms which had all virtually disappeared are coming back to me now. I have been getting back into the MMS recently and I hope to begin adhering strictly to two doses of MMS a day again starting tomorrow. I have also restarted doxycycline in the past few days and I think that is contributing to my overall sense of less well-being.
I've also heard that the full moon has an exacerbating effect on Lyme (I'm not sure if I believe that or not) and I have noticed the past few nights that the moon has been pretty close to full. Again, I'm not really sold on that being a factor but I thought I would mention it so others can make up their own minds.
I don't know if the MMS actually kills the Lyme or just drives it into cyst form (probably a little of both I suspect, just like anything else, right?) But the one comforting thing is that as much as I have stopped and restarted the MMS, it has not lost its effectiveness; which is unlike any of the other medications I have used.
I'm so used to having to add things to the regimen when whatever I'm using begins losing its effectiveness. So far, nothing of the sort has happened with the MMS. It seems I follow patterns of wellness that match exactly (delayed one or two days) the patterns of how much MMS I have been taking, and it does seem that the MMS takes away symptoms faster than they return.
Hope you and everyone on Lymenet are healing well.
NatureLover
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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robi
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Just wanted to add: The ILADS docs I have had consults with are usually not opposed to alternative type treatments. Several even use alternatives themselves and in treating patients. ILADS has never professed, as far as I know, that ABX alone can get you well from Lyme.
I have personally heard (THE) Dr. B, talk about Heavy Metal Detox and he mentions it in his 2005 Guidelines.
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