tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
Thank you Metallic and Dan and Keebler for your posts. Very well said. I agree completely.
For those like 5dana8 who say that is has not helped them, it would be wonderful to hear how many times you tried it and for how many minutes and what frequencies you used and for how many months you used it.
It is my understanding that you might not see any improvements for at least a couple of months or more, just as with abx in some cases.
My husband has been on abx for 2.5 years and improved somewhat initially but still has a constant headache and insomnia and fatigue. We are ready incorporate rife to see if we can turn the corner.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote: The fact that it caused a Herx, means it was killing Lyme,
Oh really? You have proof of this do you? This is such a false statement that it makes me cringe! There are a number of explanations for a herx type reaction from rife....the most likely one is from EMF exposure. Just like a lot of Lymies get sick from using a computer, they are going to have an even bigger reaction from the much stronger EM fields that a rife machine generates.
And then of course the true believers in this unproven Tx question Dana5's negative experience and chalk it up to user technique.
Listen folks, just cuz you ain't seeing a ton of negative responses from actual users doesn't mean that there isn't a long list of them. One comes to mind right off the top of my head that said she almost died from giving up abx and trying rife. Her name is Trish, and she goes by the name of Health on this board.
Bergy said:
quote: When the original Rife machines were in some hospitals, the doctors hated them. The patients did not want to see the doctor, they wanted to sit under the machine, because it helped more often than not.
Do you have some documentation on this? Probably just heresay that has been passed along through the rumor mill.
Bergy said:
quote: he FDA actively hunts Rife machine manufacturers,
Rife machines can be sold legitamately here in the US as long as they don't make a claim that it is doing something that it has not been proven to do...the same is true with supplements. The FDA is actually looking out for us by doing this.
If rife worked, it would be so easy to prove. Heck, even a High School lab student could do a simple test with infected mice that would show that it doesn't work. There is no doubt in my mind that these tests have been done by quite a few people that would indeed benefit from proving that rife was legite....but yet there is silence except for the testimonials and hype that is passed along for the desperate, because they are the ones that will spend the money.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
David -- I liked your response a great deal and I too very much appreciate many of the responses others had made. My response was hypothetical, about a world where they decided ABX wasn't worth testing. In that world imagine how 1 through 5 would be answered. Unfortunately a great many very good therapies are stuck in the profit making machine that is medicine. So good therapies have to be based on observation and communication not on evidentiary based science and publication.
It has been my view because evidentiary based science won't be used on many therapies, the lyme community organize itself into evaluation of supplements and therapies. We do this informally just like this thread to say "yeah it helped" or "no it didn't". If we were really good we do a better job of passing statistics from within the community more formally. We could also work with our LLMDs or LLNDs or buddy who knows a lot to get data.
So, I think we should all take the lyme community to the next level!
Oh, just a sample from the coffee enema thread, I thought was interesting. "I've been doing coffee enemas for years, but they didn't seem to help until I started KPU". Imagine this thought on the same line -- I've been doing rife for years and they didn't seem to help until I started to add detoxification. There are a lot of inter-relating therapies that have to be done in combination. Hopefully further justifying why we need to organize our results.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: If rife worked, it would be so easy to prove. Heck, even a High School lab student could do a simple test with infected mice that would show that it doesn't work. There is no doubt in my mind that these tests have been done by quite a few people that would indeed benefit from proving that rife was legite....but yet there is silence except for the testimonials and hype that is passed along for the desperate, because they are the ones that will spend the money.
I note you said "doesn't" work instead of "does or doesn't." Clearly you've already drawn your own conclusions, which is just as much an assumption as ancedotal reports claiming it does.
Since it's so easy to prove, skeptics like yourself should do the research to confirm or disprove what other patients are experiencing or claiming. A number of patients have done research and demonstrated it worked using laboratory equipment, but they didn't "publish" papers for peer review. Why not give Doug Mclean a phone call, he did research on it as well as scientific evaluation for it. He gladly talks to physicians, researchers and patients who have questions. He doesn't sell anything, all his advice is free, and his tech specs for building the Doug Coil are open source and available to the public for free. Same with Dan Tracy. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to help you understand what tools and materials you'd need to evaluate your hypothesis.
Most of the people here apparently don't need proof since most of them are feeling better, but you and Dave and others do. Given that fact, you're the ones who would be most believable if your results did support it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
quote:Most of the people here apparently don't need proof since most of them are feeling better, but you and Dave and others do. Given that fact, you're the ones who would be most believable if your results did support it.
Apparently proof for you is a few positive testimonials from people on the internet that may or not even be real. But this testimonial proof that you deem so valuable doesn't hold any water when it is negative? For you, If a few claim that it is working, then it is working. But it is still working in your mind when others say that it didn't help them. A bit of a double standard I'd say.
I haven't even said that I never tried it, you just assumed that I haven't because I am speaking negatively about it. I have actually used rife. I did it for a couple of years with and without abx. I made the decision to buy a machine in the beginning of my treatment because I didn't want to use abx. I didn't mention my experience before because it shouldn't matter. After all, it's only a testimony. The evidence speaks for itself, or the lack of evidence I should say. I would not buy a machine if I had it to do all over again.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
My machine came with a huge sticker on it "For animal use only". They are only FDA approved on animals. So I use mine on the animal(s).
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
So Porsche you spent money for a treatment modality that wasn't successful. Do you feel you were duped into selecting a dead end?
I'm hoping you're not angry at others who you feel might have led you astray? I've done some things along the way that hindered my progress where I had hopes it would help. It does make you question others motives at times.
And if you have a huge list of folks who it hadn't helped could you compile one and post.
I agree with you, that it would be great to have proof one way or another registered in a medical journal or discussable by doctors. it's unlikely to ever happen. the same could be said for many herbals or homeopathy.
I've never used rife, however, that doesn't mean I don't think it has role in getting folks well. I've use many different items including MMS in getting well, which I believe is helpful. And yes I'm 100% well, I'm in the nat'l cap lyme support group. People know me there, my profession, and my transition in health as well as my motivations (specifically to help find a cheaper more expedient way for folks to get past this disease). I've learned to more totally trust alternatives over conventional. That's been my experience...
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I give both negative and positive reports based on actual experience. I have no reason to make up results.
I do not think others make up results either, good or bad. Of course any single person could fabricating a story, but most people will give an honest appraisal.
Four years of experience tell me that a herx is from spirochetes dying, whether from frequencies, antibiotics, herbs whatever. It is not really that difficult to tell the difference between and adverse reaction and a Herx.
I think it is kind of amusing that while frequency treatments are on one hand considered useless, and not powerful enough to do anything. Yet they are fully capable of causing only a negative effect at the same time.
I never experience a herx, since I do not have Lyme. I always test myself first, to separate an adverse reaction from a Herx.
If a treatment of any kind did not work for someone there obviously is a reason. If you do not find out the reason, then you are pretty much stuck. it seems logical to try find out the reason for failure of any treatment that works for others.
I have done the research, and anyone else can do it also. I am not interested in proving anything. You can use it, or not. It makes no difference to me. I just report the results obtained from the treatments, good or bad.
Dan
[ 12-30-2009, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: D Bergy ]
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Interesting and promising! This was the same doctor that was at one of the local lyme support meetings and was very impressive!
Posts: 499 | From Malta, NY | Registered: Dec 2008
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1) It sounds like promising research 2) I wish him the absolute best in his efforts. I'd love to see some sort of electromagnetic solution to some/many/most/all of the things that afflict us. 3) What he's finding pretty well confirms what we naysayers have been saying. Unless I don't understand how rife machines work; my understanding is that they work with a single frequency at a time. Holland says:
``I began to try different frequencies, and at first nothing happened. Then I tried putting more than one frequency into the organism simultaneously.'' Then a light bulb went on for Dr. Holland. ``If I added one additional frequency, in a special relationship to the first frequency, I'd be creating more power and have a better chance at landing on the frequency necessary to change the organism,'' Dr. Holland says. ``When I added the eleventh harmonic, I looked through the microscope and discovered that the microorganism had shattered. It reminded me of how a crystal glass shatters when a soprano hits just the right note.''
11! different frequencies at the same time with some odd harmonic doing the trick. That doesn't describe the sort of rife machines I've heard about.
4) It calls into question the whole medical industry would never ever let something like this come into existence attitude that seems common here. I understand that we're here pretty much because politics within the medical community has denied us the research and care we should be receiving, but we can't paint "them" all with the same broad brush.
In reality, if someone could cure cancer with electromagnetic therapy of some kind they'd win a Nobel.
Posts: 98 | From Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Two frequencies, one frequency and the eleventh harmonic of that frequency. He also is using a machine with about 200 Watts of power, more than most of the machines we are using.
Rife used one carrier frequency and one other specific frequency that either destroyed or disabled a pathogen.
Laboratory tests do not have the benefit of an active immune system which probably does much of the work.
Cancer is one of the more difficult diseases for this method. Some recover very quickly, others do not and die from the disease anyway.
If I had Cancer, I would use frequency treatments, but I would also use several other methods to attempt to cure it.
Pancreatic Cancer is almost 100% fatal, so even if it works ten percent of the time, it will be a big help.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
I believe rife works. I've used my GB-4000 twice, on Candida frequencies only. I have Candida in my guts,; it causes problems. I can hear it, and the problems are not subjective, they are objective.
Each time i used it, first my forehead fog cleared; , then it got very dense, much worse than usual; then the next day, my guts did not have the usual objective candida problems.
After the first time i used it, i waited 5 days, by which time the problems were back to the usual problematic condition. So i would have to rife more frequently to keep the candida down. (I also take everything i can think of, as candida remedies, but nothing works if i fail to keep a strict diet.)
Sorry to inject another testimonial,
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
In reading the article from Jefferson. It is exactly what royal rife did in the thirties. He got a very high powered microscope and observed and documented how his frequency generator affected organisms. He also discovered that certain frequencies blow up the organisms. Similar to the guote from the Jefferson's Phd "shattering like glass".
I've never used rife, but I did use an LED another form of EM therapy. I'm 100% well today. However, I really feel a combination of rife and LED would be more powerful. Even possibly adding a medical tuning fork in the mix.
My point is the great number of options in the realm of frequency generators. There should be greater research in all these areas and in combination.
And like homeopathy, I wouldn't get any hope of this getting any real serious research. It will get squashed by the orthodoxy.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote: I am using rife with no other supplements or alternative treatments and I am symptom free. And I know many others with similar experiences. Plus I've had 3 MDs tell me off the record that it works.
Now compare it to what she says here in a recent post:
quote:
Author Topic: uh oh, I overdid it catskillmamala LymeNet Contributor Member # 12536 posted 01-02-2010 09:55 AM01-02-2010 09:55 AM
Hmm. Hoping this isn't a relapse. I overdid it. In the last two weeks I:
1) ate sugar (cheesecake, reese's peanut butter cups, christmas cookies, chocolate bar, chocolate cake)
2) chewed sugarless gum (has bad sweeteners) three times
3) worked like a dog packing my house for a move for 2 days straight
4) painted my husband's office in the new house
5) let my daughter and son sleep in the bed with me so I had a really, really bad night of sleep
6) drank an alcoholic drink (straight vodka) on 2 nights
Now, I am having extreme fatigue, major arthritic joint pain in hands and wrists, and trouble moving my arms and legs. I feel like the connection between my brain and my limbs isn't working right. Major sound sensitivity and touch sensitivity and I can barely tolerate being around my family. UGGGGHHH.
I am not on abx, and haven't rifed since Monday. I will probably do so today.
The first post makes her look like the poster child for rife. But then after 4 days of no rife and doing a few things that are considered normal, she has just fallen in a heap! She goes on to say :
quote:
Your "observation" that people on rife are going down hill should be backed up by links.
Thanks for the advice, and for this example. I haven't bothered to do this in the past, but this is fresh in my mind right now, and you have given me the opportunity to back up my observations for those that haven't already made the mistake of purchasing a machine yet. At some point in the future, you will most likely be back on abx in order to get stable again, even if it's only for a month, or 2, or 3. I doubt though if you will be posting that info from now on.
It should also be noted that ``major arthritic joint pain in hands and wrists, and trouble moving my arms and legs. I feel like the connection between my brain and my limbs isn't working right. Major sound sensitivity and touch sensitivity and I can barely tolerate being around my family `` are symptoms of Bart, Lyme, and other active infections. These are not Sx's one gets from simply doing a normal amount of work, and eating a few holiday goodies. So if this is your proof that rife is working for you, then you've fallen short as far as I'm concerned.
60 minutes did a piece a few months ago about a man that was using a rife type machine to kill cancer. It may or may not be the same thing as the jeffereson article posted above. I didn't download the article to check it out. But in either case, the man with cancer did make a remarkable recovery for a while. He did relapse however, and ended up dying, even after repeating the exact procedure that he believed had cured him the first time. You may think that his initial success proves that rife does work, but it's more likely that it was a placebo effect. I say that because this guy BELIEVED that it was going to work...and so it finally did after a sh**t-load of attempts. But then the results could not be repeated when he relapsed shortly after his initial recovery. Why was that? I think that it was because he had some doubt in his mind the 2nd time.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
Porsche,
Catskill never claimed to be fully cured. It is my understanding that she is still in treatment. You should know by now that anyone with Lyme (no matter on what treatment protocol) can have relapses, particularly when they are not sleeping or eating well, so I don't really see the point you are making.
Believe what you want, but you have no credibility trashing something until you TRY IT YOURSELF! That's what this poster was looking for...actual experiences with it.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:tick battler LymeNet Contributor Member # 21113
Icon 1 posted 01-02-2010 06:00 PM Profile for tick battler Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Porsche,
Catskill never claimed to be fully cured. It is my understanding that she is still in treatment. You should know by now that anyone with Lyme (no matter on what treatment protocol) can have relapses, particularly when they are not sleeping or eating well, so I don't really see the point you are making.
Believe what you want, but you have no credibility trashing something until you TRY IT YOURSELF! That's what this poster was looking for...actual experiences with it.
tickbattler , scroll up a bit and read all of my posts because you missed something. You should also read my remarks on this thread:
tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
OK, you got me...I see buried at the bottom of your 4th post in this thread that you finally acknowledge trying rife.
Why not post that up front in your first post with a detailed description of how often you actually used it and whether you herxed or felt anything during the sessions, your treatment durations, and other relevant details? That information might actually be useful for us all.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
This debate has been like this for years here and it should so people hear both sides.
For Me:
I'll keep my machines and am interested in your machine Porsche if it is a GB4000 and still available (I am serious).
The truth is and I don't mean this in a bad or cold way - I really don't care if someone uses one or not it is totally up to that person. I make no money from anything associated with lyme disease and never will - that was one of them little promises I made in private when I couldn't get out of bed - I'm sure most people know what I mean: if I can just get better, I promise....
If you are around here long enough most people see that there are no guarantees that antibiotics,herbs or anything actually cure anyone - some are cured, all - no way.
Not everything works for everyone - for me and I made it back to 100% the last time and I'm pretty close now (after a new bite) my rife machines are a major tool in the battle.
All My Best
-------------------- BTW - I am NOT a medical professional - just speaking from MY own personal experience. Posts: 266 | From Philadelphia | Registered: May 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
The Kanzius frequency treatment does not operate on the same principle as Rife frequency treatments, and Kansius did not die of Cancer to begin with.
John Kanzius died from pneumonia on February 18, 2009, aged 64, at a hospital near Sanibel, Florida, where he had a winter home. The pneumonia developed as complication after two recent rounds of chemotherapy.
He died as a direct result of standard Chemotherapy, not because of his frequency treatment, and not of Cancer.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote: He died as a direct result of standard Chemotherapy, not because of his frequency treatment, and not of Cancer.
Yes, but he had his own high powered rife machine in his garage where he experimented on himself. He finally went into remission during this process. Then he relapsed and could not stop the cancer with rife, so had to try more chemo.....then he died.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
He had a frequency generator, but never ran any Rife type Cancer frequencies. He never used Rife treatments. That is just plain false by any measure. You find no mention of Rife concerning his treatment method. He may not even have been aware of Rife. If he was, he never mentioned him.
His treatment was with localized hyperthermia, using nano Gold particles which would be heated by the frequencies. More similar to radiation treatment, without the side effects.
There is no hyperthermic effect using Rife frequency treatments. The machines are not powerful enough to produce heat.
The Kanzius treatment is completely different experimental treatment still in the development stage.
I am not sure how this relates to Lyme and Rife type frequency treatments, as they are different treatments and different diseases.
As with all treatments, sometimes they work, and sometimes they do not. Especially true when dealing with Cancer.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I believe it's time to hit the ignore button. Don't waste your time with some people. They sure remind me of someone from our past????????????
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Heh heh....thanks for the laugh. If you want to split hairs, then yes, he used a frequency generator, which is what everyone else here is using. All those CAFL frequencies that people claim are helping them are not rife frequencies either, but rife is the word that has been used because the promoters of this scam have nothing else that's credible that they can use to sell their machines.
quote:His treatment was with localized hyperthermia, using nano Gold particles which would be heated by the frequencies. More similar to radiation treatment, without the side effects.
This is what he was devoloping with the help of others. He didn't use this procedure on himself because it might have jeopordized the project. It wouldn't have worked on his type of cancer anyways. But he did indeed use a frequency generator on himself using rife like frequencies.
You know where this very small rife following would be without the internet and all it's fake identities to keep it going? Absolutely no where. Rife's a zero, and zero times anything always equals zero. Rife X DNA (what a joke) freq = zero
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I'll report my progress with Rife as soon as possible. Whatever the end result, it'll be nice for me to finally get first hand experience. I don't have any obvious options left, so it only makes sense.
My specialist is encouraging and supportive. She told me patients that fail other therapies like I have sometimes surprisingly improve more effectively using Rife. Obviously they (Dr. H and his PA) said they've also seen plenty of people not improve using Rife.
MAP: I don't think any of us like to be patronized, so I understand. I can accept that behavior though. I accept it because I realize that people here are angry, frustrated and sick, especially when expensive therapies (proven or unproven) fail.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Porsche, I don't even use a rife machine, but I'm stumped why you are so much about this. Really, isn't there better more productive ways to spend time healing?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Ok, let me weigh in here for a second. I am feeling much better than yesterday. Lesson learned: don't overdo it.
Yes, I probably am still battling active infection. I have never claimed to be cured by rife. If I believed I was cured, why would I continue to rife? Indeed, if I was cured by Buhner herbs, or oral abx, or IV, why would I be treating at all?
What I believe is that sugar, alcohol and skipping sleep and working very hard lessened my immune response. When my immune response is reduced, I have a flare up of symptoms. I did before ever treating, when on abx, and it is the same on rife. But, no matter what you say, Porche, I am able to work full-time, drive, cook, and parent and I couldn't do that 18 months ago. There is no question of improvement, if it's placebo, I'll take it. Maybe the radical improvements on mepron and IV rocephin were placebo, too- at least in part, it's possible, no?
What I don't want to see and what I sense in your posts is INTIMIDATION. I will NOT stop posting my experience with rife and I will not stop posting about my personal experience, even if I suffer a setback. FYI- I did orals for 6 months, went off and relapsed hard. I did orals another 8 months and plateaued and then backslid before going to IV.
Please keep a civil tone. Actually, is it too much to ask for a kind tone? You don't have to believe in my treatment approach. I hope you find something proven and standard that works for you. Goodness knows I told myself I'd never do IV or rife.
But please speak with kind words, tone and intention. That is the best way to wellness for all of us. Porsche, I wish you good health in the new year.
[ 01-08-2010, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Oh, and one more thing I must add after reviewing the thread. I will also post if I go back on abx or herbs. I am not in the rife business so I have no reason "hide" if rife treatment eventually fails me.
My goal is to get some support and to offer some first-person experience that other people can use to make their own decisions.
Much of my progress through this disease can be attributed to having others post their unscientific personal experiences on lymenet. I am trying to add to the dataset in an honest and forthright manner.
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Hi mama. Oh please don't try to discredit my comments by trying to label me as an angry person that has an axe to grind because of rife...... that's not the case at all, and my tone on this thread has not been an angry one. You are mistaken about that to say the least.
I'm glad that you are feeling better. Yes, I know that you never claimed to be cured. But you did make this claim:
quote: and I am symptom free.
Which brings up another point that I would like to comment on. I only hit on the ``symptom free'' part of this statement last time, so let's look at this part now: ``I am using rife with no other supplements or alternative treatments''
But in the ``I overdid it thread'' you made this statement''
quote: Thanks, July. I am trying to relax. I did rife and I am drinking green tea and trying to detox as much as possible.
So are you under the impression that green tea is not a supplement, and that heavy detox is not an alternative therapy?
Just in case you are, let me point out that green tea is considered a pretty good defense against malaria all by itself, and that it has some very strong immune building properties, not to mention its synergistic properties with other herbs, abx, and supplements.
Honestly, I'm not going after you on some vendetta for the comments that you made; I'm just using the opportunity to back up what I said before. I don't think that you lied about these things on purpose, but I think that it's important for others to see how people think; that a lot of chronically sick people are either not aware, or just plain forget to mention all the things that they are doing that might make a difference in any particular alternative therapy's perceived success.
Here's my point: Talk is cheap on the internet. No one can be sure what any person is really doing as far as other therapies, herbs, detoxing, exercising, and so on unless you are actually living with that person and are able to verify it.
The internet is probably the greatest tool to date for learning as far as I'm concerned, but it is also the easiest way for crooks to con someone with false information and fake identities. Our society is still pretty trustworthy overall, and then when you add sickness and brain fog and desperation to boot, it really makes it hard not to believe what seems to be a sincere testimony.
Whether you believe it or not, there are many fake identities on every health board that have been there for years, and new ones are continually added.
That's why internet testimonies are worthless IMO, unless I actually know that person. I want to see real evidence that something works before I spend a lot of money on it, or waste a bunch of precious time that I don't have trying it. This is what abx and herbs have...tons of studies and research that show them working on animals and in people, even when used against placebo's...rife doesn't have this.
Now to you that believe that rife is working. I believe that it is not, that you would do just as well without it if you were to continue with your usual supplements / vitamins and herbs and leave out the rifing. All you need is to have the same faith that you are putting in a placebo Tx, and a faith coach that will give you the assurance that you will need along the bumpy road to follow; someone that will be there to continually remind you that what you are attempting is the right path; that all the bouts of fatigue and brain fog to come will pass if you only stick with your belief.
Metalicblue: I don't believe that anyone can effectively judge whether or not rife is working by trying it unless they were to quit everything else. The typical rifer usually has a significant list of supplements, herbs, and detox methods that would make it impossible to rightly divide any improvement. At least IMO.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
The first time in my life that I drank green tea was with this symptom flare over the holidays. My detox methods include drinking lots of water and eating blueberries and I don't believe any of these things change the fact that over the fall I was symptom free.
Over the holidays I ate sugar, aspertame, alcohol, worked hard and lost sleep causing a symptom flare. None of this means that rife doesn't work. Please don't use me as the poster child for it working or not working. But as to opinions about what is working for me, I think if people care about my current status, they should listen to the utmost authority on me and that would be me.
FYI I am taking no other vitamins, not even a multi at this point and had exactly two cups of green tea in my life, both yesterday.
I hope you find real evidence that something works, so far I have not found that for anything, especially after relapsing from abx.
I do not believe internet testimonies are worthless. I took MMS and it nearly killed me and I try to enter every MMS thread to let people know that for me it caused a severe drop in platelets- to the point that I was at risk for bleeding. In addition, I relied on testimonies to figure out what was making my PICC line insertion site breakout- like others I was allergic to adhesives. Testimonials are valuable in both cases.
Indeed, if testimonials are worthless, why are you here?
And by the way, your comment "I don't think you lied about these things on purpose" is exactly the kind of comment I was referring to in terms of tone. You ARE accusing me of lying- just not on purpose. In fact, your post implies that I am so "chronically ill" that I cannot remember what supplements and detox protocols I am on. Not true. And I would be more than happy to have a pm from anyone who wishes to have more information about my protocol, etc.
What treatment are you pursuing, Porsche? Or are you just here to evaluate others?
Posts: 524 | From Hudson Valley, NY | Registered: Jul 2007
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
Porsche-
Your tone and remarks on this thread are clearly angry and inappropriate. You call people foolish and ignorant and claim you don't have an angry tone? You can see by the responses of others on this thread the I am not alone with this opinion.
Your arguments are hollow and frankly don't make much sense. Why are you wasting your valuable time "that you don't have" here? And furthermore, if you don't believe in testimonials from strangers, than why are you even here? That's what this forum is - ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIALS!
Maps is right...time to ignore at this point.
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I agree.. Stop that back and forth and post your experience and opinion and move on.
No need to pick on or pick apart one person and keep on going and going...
You made your point.. So whats the deal..
If you do not believe rife works. All you have to do it post that.. and thats that..
If your hell bent on stopping people from trying it. You can not do that. We all get to choose our paths. Just like you do..
Live and let live..
You do not have the answers anymore than anyone more than anyone else does.. We are all just trying to help ourselves and we get to choose that route. That does not make anyone better than anyone else.
If you have proof of what does work.. Would love to see you post that.. for us all to see... and hey maybe you would grab my attention.
But there does not exist such a thing or we all would not be here.. now would we..
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: Metalicblue: I don't believe that anyone can effectively judge whether or not rife is working by trying it unless they were to quit everything else. The typical rifer usually has a significant list of supplements, herbs, and detox methods that would make it impossible to rightly divide any improvement. At least IMO.
I agree, and that's exactly what I'd like to do. Additionally, the reason I'll be attempting Rife is after having evaluated a friend of mine after his 2 years of therapy. In 2006 he bought a used EMEM23D for about 500 dollars, just like mine. He began keeping a diary. The diary was primitive and simply included the frequencies he used during each session, how long the sessions were and the time frame between treatments, his symptoms, and a percentage of what he felt his function was i.e. 50%, 60% etc. I told him I would purchase a machine of my own from someone he didn't know if the results he had in 2 years were significant. I made it clear I would do this even though the report would be subjective.
He had been on antibiotics of various combinations for 3 years (From the start of 2002 thru the end of 2004). Unfortunately he got stuck at about 40-50% (He waxed and waned there, just like I wax and wane between 35-45%). He stopped treatment for a year in order to prepare for treatment. He fell extremely ill inbetween since he wasn't on any medications or any other supplements except for eating a "regular" diet, and taking plant sterols (Cholestapure) which is what his LLMD recommended he use while on Rife. He did gradually start exercising after a year of therapy, such as walking.
I told him I didn't believe Rife was an appropriate therapy for me to do at that present time. He didn't try to persuade me before or during his own process.
Once he was ready, he did his thing. When he completed the 2 year protocol he told me he was very confident in recommending the treatment to me given our cases were similar. He recommended it only after I requested his opinion. I told him "You have no proof it works though. Just because you're feeling better doesn't mean anything" His retort was, I'm 95% functional Mike, I feel great. I have a job, and I'm in a long term relationship." That's all he had to say. This kid was down to earth and I knew him well enough to trust his judgment since he and I worked together on the Myspace Lyme group that he founded. He had built boats with his father and was an avid civil war and Revolutionary Gun builder/collector before he fell ill. He kept carving the guns during his healing process he told me.
This kid and I talked constantly prior to his starting treatment -- 2 years actually. Once he began treatment however I tried intentionally to not talk to him very much so as not to be affected. In-fact, the 2 years passed by extremely quickly as a result. We spoke perhaps 3-5 times in the two year period.
So that was how I came to consider Rife a viable option. I bought my machine used from a young guy who felt he'd bought the machine prematurely, given he hadn't used antibiotics or herbal therapies. He felt his load was excessively high and thus even minor treatments with the Rife caused debilitating herxheimer reactions. Whether he was actually experiencing herxheimer reactions is unknown to me, but I trusted his judgment and he didn't try to sell me on it. He simply answered my questions. I asked for pictures and that was the end of it.
As anyone who knows me can imagine, I was extremely skeptical, but over time (In 2008), I began researching the results of other patients who performed a similar treatment pattern with the same machine that my friend had used. The reports were overwhelming, especially when I began talking to other people who I trusted too. I didn't follow their cases for "years" but I knew that for me personally, I could tolerate and trust their judgment as honest and worthy of consideration. The "average" consensus of the patients I spoke with was simple. They all made it very clear that it probably would not cure me.
When I spoke to people, I focused exclusively on those who "didn't" use supplements and who went off antibiotics before starting therapy and who remained disabled before therapy began (I defined disabled as unable to work).
I did a variety of research on Rife and felt the evidence was thin, but frequencies were being used in a variety of settings that demonstrated that it was possible that the claims people made might be reproduced. I felt the controversy was absurd surrounding Rife, but all I had to do was compare it to the current controversy of Lyme and long term antibiotics (which also had no objective proof via studies). It was obvious to me that while there was no proof and that hundreds of thousands of physicians around the world denied Lyme was Chronic, that it obviously was, since I kept coming up positive inspite of long term antibiotics. I felt better using antibiotics but better didn't mean "well." It meant I was no longer dying from the disease and was stabilized at 35% on most days.
So, will it work? I really have no idea but I've spent thousands of dollars in my own money as well as a million plus dollars over 20-25 years of my insurance companies' money) and wasn't healthy. Earlier in the thread I spoke about what I knew. I don't know if regular Rife machines sold perform as I described earlier but I do know that frequencies do cause damage to various cells and organisms if enough energy is supplied.
600 dollars (For the EMEM23D) and a commitment of 2 years of therapy seems harmless to me to at least try since nothing else has worked. I see Dr. H in New York. His PA is the one I really like working with and so I asked her (as well as his) opinion on the therapy. They said the results were mixed and the felt antibiotic therapy should be the first line. If treatment failed they said a lot of patients turned to Rife. Most flared up directly from using the treatment and decided not to continue, but some got much much better." I decided to also investigate further by having patients intentionally ask their LLMD's directly (As a favor), if they felt Rife treatment was effective in cases where antibiotic failure was present. Since I maintain one of the major LLMD lists and collect patient reports after they've seen the doctor, it was easy and very logical to use them to accumulate knowledge for my personal use on their dime. The majority of LLMDs said they "DID" feel it helped people but they didn't know why -- they each also made it clear they couldn't recommend it for legal reasons but they could give the patient their opinion and information if specifically asked about their observations. Some very well known doctors in the Lyme community did recommend it, but they are so cutting edge that I felt uncomfortable personally putting much weight on it.
After all of this, here I am. Does it work exactly as reported and claimed? I have no idea. Are there side effects that might hurt me? I have no idea. I've been on so many toxic drugs and tried so many alternative treatments it seems self evident to take the risk.
The reason I'm telling everyone this is so they understand what has motivated me to consider this avenue.
One last note. My friend who got well has not returned to the Lyme group (even to moderate) since reporting his recovery to me. He told me privately when asked that "I see no reason to take part in the group now, it self functions fine by itself and I'm well now. I don't know if I'm cured and I don't care. I'll continue to maintain my health by doing Rife monthly or every couple months. If I get sick again then you'll know because I'll be back immediately to try something else."
It's coming up on two years now and I haven't heard from him since, though I do see he signs onto his own myspace page occasionally. I'm very happy to have not heard from him.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I wish you luck.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
If anyone deserves a break in their treatment, you do MB. Really hope rife works for you!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Thank you, both of you.
For anyone who wishes to see everything I've tried, I laid it out very systematically, including symptoms, history, and the who, what, when, where, why, and how regarding treatment.
lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Porsche...You really seem to enjoy stinking things up. I used to post regularly on the Lyme Friends website when I first began my Rife journey and I was torn apart by someone much in the same manner that you're tearing apart Catskill now.
I'm wondering if you're the same person? Of course if you are you won't speak up and say so, so I suppose that's neither here nor there.
Now, I know you're thinking, "But I tried Rife and it didn't work." Well, I don't believe you. I don't believe that you've ever been anywhere near a Rife machine. The good ole' "internet hearsay" thing is a two way street and judging by you're tone in this thread you just don't strike me as the "I'll try anything" type. You're point that anybody can get on the internet and say anything is well taken. I'll leave it at that.
For others that are still following this thread and are trying to get something constructive out of it I'll try my best to offer support and my personal experience with using Rife as my MAIN tool of treatment against Lyme and Babesia.
When I first began Rife I was tapering myself off of abx. It took me about 3 months after starting Rife to finally make the leap and stop abx all together. It helped greatly that my insurance cancelled me and 3 years of Lyme and Babs treatment had virtually wiped me out financially - I had no money left for abx and certainly not for my thousand dollar a month bottle of Mepron. Alas, I would have no choice but to rely solely on my machine to get well.
Let the journey begin. For the first month or so after stopping abx I felt GREAT. Very typical reaction. Because I was feeling so good I didn't use my machine. Right at the one month mark symptoms started creeping back in and I felt lousy. I used my machine, herxed my behind off and after about 3 days I felt much better. I repeated this cycle for many, many months until my symptoms lessened in severity and my flares grew further and further apart.
In the midst of all of this my Babs symptoms came back full force and I was pretty ill. I definitely had my doubts that my machine would have any impact on this infection, but once again, with no money and no health insurance, I had no choice other than to give it a go.
To my pleasant surprise minutes after using Babs frequencies on my Babs symptoms I was symptom free. In a matter of minutes I went from barely being able to walk b/c I was so ill to feeling fantastic. I was so ecstatic over this that I got on here and wrote a whole post about my experience. Nobody was more shocked than me that I had such a profound reaction. Placebo effect? I think not. You have to BELIEVE in something in order to reap positive benefits from it according to those that tout the placebo effect.
I used my machine against Babs for several months before finally getting rid of this infection. I got symptoms, I rifed, I felt better. I got symptoms, I rifed, I felt better, and on, and on, and on for months. I have not had any Babs symptoms since September and I have not used my machine for babs since then either.
As far as the argument, "Well how do you know it's you're machine when you're doing detox and taking multiple supplements and drinking green tea?" Of all the arguments against Rife this has to be the MOST ridiculous of them all. The same could be said of antibiotic users! I don't know of anyone on this board who takes abx and nothing else, be it vitamin C, probiotics, a multi-vitamin, some sort of B-complex, digestive enzymes or any other number of things.
So once again, this is a two way street. How do we REALLY know that they aren't seeing improvement from any of the above rather than their Cipro, Zithro, or Mino. Can their user reports be trusted?? Maybe they're all crazy! Heck, in light of all this perhaps all of us should just ditch whatever treatment we're on since we can't TRULY decipher what's helping and what's not. Of course I'm being sarcastic myself here...I just want to point out what a silly argument this is, and in my humble opinion it has absolutely no merit whatsoever.
At this point in my life, after a little over a year of using my machine I am 90%. I work full time, have the occasional drink and once again have a pretty full social life. Like Catskill, if I neglect myself and eat too much sugar, pull an all-nighter or drink too much alcohol I will get a flair in Lyme symptoms. So, I'm I cured? No. But I have a quality of life that I haven't experienced in years and never experienced on abx.
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
Thank you, Lymielauren!
So what frequencies did you use for Babesia??
570? and?
Maybe you could post it on the other rife thread going now?
Thanks!
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Polly - thanks and will do!
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I say..
Be Happy for ANYTHING
Be Happy for ANYONE
That helps or feels better from this horrible disease no matter what it is .. or how it is done!
Great story Lauren
So glad to hear
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Look, I don't want to argue with you or anyone else on this board. What really aggravates me is that you're lumping all Rifers together in one big heap.
I'm not against negative testimonies at all and I personally know of a person who bought a machine, used it for several months on many different known Lyme frequencies with ZERO results. I'm very curious and also puzzled as to why they had such a different experience from the one that I had. Why???
I wish I knew. I firmly believe that these testimonies should be heard right along with the positive ones so that the person buying the machine goes into it with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism.
That being said, I do think everyone that has chronic Lyme should spend the 400 bucks and at least try it. From what I can tell it helps more people than it doesn't, and the ones that are helped are usually helped drastically.
If they purchase a machine and it doesn't do diddly-squat for them then they can easily sell it and make their money back since most are on a waiting list for one anyways.
If you did use a machine and it didn't work - I'm truly sorry. I wish everyone could experience the profound results that I have and then there wouldn't be much need for this board at all. How awesome would that be?
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I just kind of skimmed through all of this. No medicine is 100%.
A big part of healing is based on belief. If you don't believe the treatment choice you are trying will work - chances are that it won't... This is true for many modalities, drugs, herbs, etc.
It's very individual. Even if there are studies & proof - it may not work for "you" in particular.
There are scientific studies from universities that frequencies can shatter pathogens. If you search for them, you will find them.
I haven't really seen any proof that the standard lab tests are 100% accurate, that the abx kill Lyme or co-infections, that herbs heal people 100% or that anything works 100% for everyone.
It's all very individual as to what will work & what doesn't. Most medicine is based on averages. There are always situations where people are outside of the norm - either for positive or negative.
Some things are frauds. We just have to give it thought & research to see if it's worthwhile. Alot of this dealing with Lyme & company is trial & error.
If the idea of Rife is not appealing - it's probably a good idea to try some other method. No reason to discredit it for everyone. Some people seem to be getting results with it.
I've seen alot more positive responses to Rife than negative ones.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
What is absolutely ludicrous about how to treat is the thought you buy something it's suppose to work as if there is some implied guarantee. Magnesium might help one person and not another. Vitamin C and salt helps one person not another.
Rife is a tool, nothing more, it may have its time in a treatment method, but it is one method only. It might be useless if there is potassium deficiency. Or it might be useless if your eating too much sugar and defeat the purpose.
To me testimonials are weighed, if it is 50 / 50 you have to determine how to get to 100 percent your self, what other supplements get you there. So far the testimonial are more then 50 / 50 for rife, and I really hope it doesn't hurt anyones feelings I said that. And I defy anyone to prove me wrong, but if you try show your statistics and how they were arrived if you dare.
By statistics, I would like to see at least 50 testimonials rife doesn't work, look them up on the internet. Have them post here. Also within the 50, the other things they were doing, the type of diet they were on. Whether they exercised, what kind of relationships they were in. To profile success versus failure isn't easy.
And by the way, Royal Rife proofed to the satisfaction of the AMA in the 30's that rifing kills pathogens. Rife has its place, we just have to learn better how to apply it.
I also agree with Sparkle about the power of believe. The use of meditation. There are sooo many avenues to consider in creating a successful result from any tool you engage into a protocol.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks Bob. It's hard because the treatments take so long & we really don't know if anything gives us a permanent cure. Dealing with all of this is a big, time-consuming nightmare.
If people do get better from using a Rife - they probably want to do something other than sitting in from of a computer writing up their experience on a blog or message board.
Sometimes, they may stop treatment or try something else. So, we don't have alot of long term statistics as to how this all works out. The same can probably be said for treating with drugs, herbs, or other things, too.
We are all just doing what we can to try to have a life after all of this illness. We have to keep believing something is going to work.
Rife type machines put the empowerment to get well in our own hands, With all of the bizarre things we deal with in this illness - it's kind of comforting to know we have a huge list of "stuff" we can look through to treat with a machine we own. Even if it's 6 months or 5 years later.
I don't have a Rife but I'm seriously considering getting one.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Rife did not help me at all. It seemed like quackery and potentially dangerous. I tried it repeatedly and it did not do anything. Some people feel Rife helps them. HBOT on the other hand has produced lasting excellent results.
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Thanks for your report WC. Do you recall which type of machine you used? I investigated HBOT, and it was definitely something I wanted to do. Sadly I couldn't afford the costs for enough treatments to make a significant impact.
Anyone who can afford HBOT as apart of their therapy -- including those who do alternative therapies, or even Rife, should.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
On the line that wild condor brought up, that it didn't work for her (and thanks for the comment). It would be great if you could try before you buy. Somehow if those using rife would allow folks to try there machines before they make a purchase. Not all therapies work for everyone.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
wildcondor,
Thanks for your comments. Can you tell us more about your experience? For example, when you were using your machine, did you feel anything? I have tried a friend's machine once for only 30 seconds and I felt a tightening in my head, so I know it was doing something. My husband felt this as well. Did you ever have any feelings like that during a session?
Thanks, tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: It would be great if you could try before you buy. Somehow if those using rife would allow folks to try there machines before they make a purchase. Not all therapies work for everyone.
There are manufacturers that allow a 60 day money back guarantee - that is the main reason I bought my machines from where I did. 60 days should be plenty of time to find out if it does anything for you.
The problem with letting people try your machine is that you open up a lot of potential conflicts - I would be cautious who I let use my machines and I definitely would not turn it on for them.
Just be careful is all I'm saying - I would open my door to anyone if it were possible but I/we should make sure it is not being considered a treatment. I know I am not authorized to treat anyone.
All My Best,
-------------------- BTW - I am NOT a medical professional - just speaking from MY own personal experience. Posts: 266 | From Philadelphia | Registered: May 2005
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