oxygenbabe
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posted
S13 I felt the deep dive was fairly suppressive to candida which rebounded badly when I stopped; while the mhbot promoted the candida if I did it daily. Just fyi.
Also--you really should ask a doctor to check the heart and do a holter monitor. Asking someone online in another country if they think the mhbot is responsible for heart issues, isn't the best idea--not for you or for the person answering. They have no idea.
Best of luck.
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Phoiph
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S13...
I agree that if you haven't been checked out or cleared for mHBOT, you should be...
My experience with candida was like all the other opportunistic infections I harbored; it faded over time as my immune system strengthened, and eventually became a non issue...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
So what kind of checks would they need to do? What is the criteria your doc uses to grant mhbot prescriptions?
Im in a difficult part of my treatment i guess. Treating for bartonella is clearly showing improvement in neurological functions, so i wish very much to continue with the rifampin. But that also means yeast is allowed to endure...
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
For regular HBOT the doctor required a chest X-ray, don't know if necessary for MBOT or not.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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oxygenbabe
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There are absolute contraindications and relative contraindications. The chest x-ray is to be sure you don't have pneumothorax I'm pretty sure--you can't pressurize the lungs then. You shouldn't do either one when you have a bad cold or sinus infection as you won't be able to equalize the ears. If you already have cataracts they can ripen faster with hbot, so that would be a relative contraindication (patient and doctor would decide). It would be wise to be seeing a doc knowledgeable in hbot to at least consult with over this, although mhbot is a relatively safe "treatment".
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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oxygenbabe
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Oh, and you shouldn't do it right after a tooth filling, you're supposed to wait at least some days, I can't remember how many (that would be deep dive. Not sure if it matters with mhbot). The filling has to settle properly I think.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Ok i should be good to go then. No probs with lungs, and my eyes are examined each 6 months.
Today i didnt notice the heart irregularity, but i also didnt took the sauna. So it could be electrolyte shortage due to the sauna / candida diet and an already stressed heart from the infections.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
S13 and lemongirl, I wonder if you could tell us details about your journey so far with mhbot? How long you've been doing it? How you have felt while doing it? Hers reactions. And how you are now? Has it helped? Thank you for elaborating
Posts: 79 | From Maine | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
Im only up to 25 dives, so i have just started. While i generally feel im moving in the right direction, ive also started to attack candida with some natural supplements a little over 10 days back. That is giving me a worsening of symptoms now.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Catgirl
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I used to have horrible vertigo--would HBOT bring that back?
Do people do HBOT while still on meds, or do you have to be off of meds first?
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I believe that HBOT is more effective when done with antibiotics if you have decided to be on antibiotics. Just an opinion.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Yeah im still on antibiotics for Bartonella. Mino and Rifampin. I know that doesnt help the candida at all, but im making progress. Some bartonella symptoms are close to resolving, and my Giemsa bloodstain show less and less bacteria adhering to my RBC's. So im going to continue with bart treatment for at least 3 more months, and then see if i can quit abx all together.
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Phoiph
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I had to quit all antibiotics (pulled my pic line) and formal treatment (except homeopathy) 5 years prior to starting mHBOT due to increasing toxicity, chemical/environmental sensitivity, gut issues, etc. (in essence, I became too ill to continue treatments).
In my case, even though I didn't have a choice, I believe doing mHBOT without antibiotics ended up working to my advantage, as I wasn't continually taking in more substances that required detox.
posted
S13, how long have you been on mino and rifampin? I believe I also have bartonella, I'm taking septra and zithro currently, I was unable to tolerate rifampin. Also what supplements are you taking for yeast? Think I have issues with it also..
Posts: 79 | From Maine | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
Im doing rifampin for 3 months now. The Septra and zithro never worked that great for my Bart (but at that time i also had babs). Rifampin and Levo were the only ones to touch it.
My yeast protocol now consists of: - Diet (Phoiph has also been very helpful with this and provided some good tips and recipes!) - Lots of coconut oil - SF722, 15 caps/day divided in 3 doses - Lufenuron - Phellostatin (berberine containing supp) - Tinospora cordifolia (berberine containing supp) - Probiotics, VSL3 and Theralac - Kefir - Oregano oil - Now Candida Support
In a few days i will start fluconazole. I will then stop with the berberine herbs, and possibly start with a pure form of berberine. (perhaps the tinospora will be left in, because it has liver regenerative properties, which will be very helpful with the fluconazole and rifampin) The lufenuron was a bit of a gamble, but did point me in the right direction of candida. I dont think it can cure a systemic candida infection however.
I think when i started doing mHBOT i already had small increase in candida symptoms. Perhaps it is able to deteriorate the candida biofilm? I dont think mHBOT kills the candida though.
[ 02-04-2014, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: S13 ]
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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oxygenbabe
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I doubt mhbot "deteriorates" biofilms... Can you tell me how you did with the lufeneron? I've heard very few reports from actual users. Thanks a lot.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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I did get more fatigue and a bit of an emotional/depression kind of herx. After the first dose my leg muscles which normally feel "toxic" fatigued, all of a sudden felt calm and relaxed. I hadnt had that feeling for a long time. But after the 2nd dose (and especially now that im throwing everything i can at it) the toxic/fatigued feeling became worse than ever before.
I find vitamin C to help a lot with the emotional/depression part.
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oxygenbabe
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Hmmm. I had read it stays in your system for weeks, though. Well at least you didn't have a weeks long horrible reaction. I'd try it but am afraid of the length of time it sticks around.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Yes it is supposed to stay in your system for a few weeks. But even Sarah Vaughter states: "More serious semi-systemic Candidiases may need multiple treatments and are at least temporarily improved"
Temporary improvement is not a cure. But in my opinion it is always good to attack from different angles at the same time.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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S13...you asked, "...What is your opinion on mHBOT and candida? Some say the oxygen can cause candida to thrive?..."
Here's a quote from "The Textbook of Hyperbaric Medicine"; K.K.Jain regarding Candida Albicans and HBO:
"...Effect of HBO treatment and antifungal agents on Candida albicans has been examined in vitro. There was no response to increased atmospheric pressure alone, but addition of 100% oxygen under pressure led to growth inhibition of p02 of 900mmHG and killing of organisms at a pO2 value of 1800 mmHg. Clinical use of HBO for this infection and a study of the interaction of HBO with antifungal agents has been suggested by but not tested clinically..."
So...even though the oxygen saturation levels shown to inhibit or kill candida in this study are higher than those reached by use of ordinary mHBOT or HBOT therapy in vivo, the study at least suggests that candida is not promoted by these therapies either...
The text also mentions that HBO improves the immune mechanism of the body, including phagocytosis (which is necessary for the body to manage candida and other infections)...
It also assists in detoxing the byproducts...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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So to get to 1800mmHg killing levels, you need at least 2.5ATA. For 900mmHg inhibition levels you need 1.375ATA. That is actually not that far from 1.3ATA mHBOT. I would assume that even if it is not inhibiting candida at 1.3ATA, it would at least slow down the growth.
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Phoiph
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Actually, there are a couple of other factors that affect amount of 02 that ultimately dissolves into the tissues...
To use a quote from the Austin study:
"...if the patient were placed in a hyperbaric chamber and the pressure increased to 2.36 atmospheres, absolute (ata), the total barometric pressure would be 1794 mm Hg. If the patient were then to breathe pure oxygen the inspired partial pressure of oxygen would be 1794 mm Hg. Inspired oxygen is diluted by carbon dioxide and water vapor in the alveoli, so that the arterial blood would be exposed to an oxygen partial pressure of approximately 1700-mm Hg, and the tissue oxygen would be between 200 and 300 mm Hg...
Also, with mHBOT using a 10LPM 20PSI 02 concentrator, you will be breathing approximately +60% oxygen, rather than 100% as in the above reference...
That said, at least it wouldn't be likely increase growth, and the increased efficiency of the immune system would have a positive effect...
As I mentioned, in my case, candida became a non-issue as I became well with mHBOT...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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I have not done any other research but the Lyme MD posted this on July 22, 2013. He was talking about biofilms and hyperbaric.
"Hyperbaric therapy, in addition to producing reactive oxygen species, also produces reactive nitrogen species. One of these products is nitric oxide.
The effects of this compound are complex and protean with literature that goes on forever. But one demonstrated effect is the dispersal of biofilms. This may be of additional benefit."
So, maybe it has an effect on biofilms. If it truly does, then hbot may dissolve the biofilm and allow the medicine to get to it. Wouldn't that be awesome.
Another thought is that mhbot works on many, many levels. Maybe its mechanism isn't killing like antibiotics or antimicrobials.
Maybe, its mechanism is supporting and healing the body. Keeping the detox pathways open etc.
As a result, the body does not have to work on repairing etc. and has the resources to actually attack.
Just a thought.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Phoiph
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Agreed, Soccermama!
Although mHBOT is also antimicrobial, healing is about so much more than just "killing bugs"...
In my opinion/experience, doing consistent mHBOT over time is what allows these multi-level healing/repair processes to take place...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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oxygenbabe
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It may promote candida simply the way antibiotics do, by killing off competitors. In this case, all the anaerobes, and possibly at higher pressures in clinics, some of the microaerophilic ones.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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The difference being that antibiotics and hypoxia suppress the immune system, whereas HBO improves it, and good immune function is necessary to keep opportunistic organisms in check.
Probiotic supplements and a diet that includes probiotic-rich fermented foods are also important...
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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, after I finished doing two months of deep dive I had a terrible candida flare, with frequent diarrhea on eating any carbs. It was very unpleasant.
During the deep dive, I didn't have it.
I found that if I tried to do mild hbot daily, I got what felt like yeast symptoms--chills, itchy, fluey and did not feel good. Can't prove it was yeast though because I quickly dropped it to twice a week. Wasn't going to continue with whatever flare it was causing, which did not feel like lyme herxes at all.
That's my experience, and I always did probiotics. If people are experiencing candida flares during hbot, then that's what they are experiencing. There are always side effects to every treatment.
My point was not that they are one and the same (antibiotics). My point was that you are doing something artificial, especially with deep dive (which is what you cited from hyperbaric medicine in regards to candida growth) that will alter your flora. Deep dive definitely kills off anaerobes. Mild, maybe, who knows.
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oxygenbabe
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Hyperbaric is very useful. It is a great adjunctive therapy. It is not for everybody. It is not a panacea. It is not an unalloyed good. It is not without side effects.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
This has been a very informative thread--and am watching the "Calling all Mild Hyperbaric users" thread as well.
Am considering this treatment. (Phoiph, if you are around, I just sent you a PM.)
Posts: 688 | From Florida | Registered: Aug 2001
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Phoiph
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quote:Originally posted by soccermama: I have not done any other research but the Lyme MD posted this on July 22, 2013. He was talking about biofilms and hyperbaric.
"Hyperbaric therapy, in addition to producing reactive oxygen species, also produces reactive nitrogen species. One of these products is nitric oxide.
The effects of this compound are complex and protean with literature that goes on forever. But one demonstrated effect is the dispersal of biofilms. This may be of additional benefit."
So, maybe it has an effect on biofilms. If it truly does, then hbot may dissolve the biofilm and allow the medicine to get to it. Wouldn't that be awesome.
Another thought is that mhbot works on many, many levels. Maybe its mechanism isn't killing like antibiotics or antimicrobials.
Maybe, its mechanism is supporting and healing the body. Keeping the detox pathways open etc.
As a result, the body does not have to work on repairing etc. and has the resources to actually attack.
Just a thought.
Soccermama...
Will W. (the cytologist who has recently started posting) shared a technical article with me on how LOW oxygen keeps antibiotics (and possibly the immune system) from penetrating biofilms:
posted
Great link. I had to read it several times but I think it validates what Lyme MD has said.
That is great because biofilms are a huge problem.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Marnie
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I wonder if HBOT primarily hits the CWD form of Bb which maybe actually the hardest form to rid.
I also suspect barometric *pressure changes* (the aches and pains many of us old folks experience when a storm is approaching) may also impact some pathogens...setting up a "herx"/ inflammatory response as a *result of* the die-off.
It might not be a good idea to go scuba diving if you have lyme.
Persons who live at higher altitudes (less oxygen) sometimes have a tougher time if they have lyme, others do not.
Then there is a "flip side" i.e., healing warm mineral springs.
One of the best in the world is near me, but is closed because the city and county both own it and they can't agree on what to do with it. For shame on them!!!
It is called Warm Mineral Springs in Venice, Florida. It is on YouTube (videos when it was open a year ago).
All I can say is after a few hours floating in that mineral rich sink hole = feel FANTASTIC and you don't want to wash off your skin, it feels like a baby's skin.
Our guests (all ages) LOVED to go there!
Back to HBOT! Sorry...I have a tendency to go off track ;-)
HBOT is normally only "approved" (insurance covered) for treating "the bends" (scuba divers coming up too fast) and for gas gangrene (skin dying).
HBOT is also a treatment for clostridial myositis.
Clostridia ***lack superoxide dismutase***, making them incapable of surviving in the oxygen-rich environment created within a hyperbaric chamber. This inhibits clostridial growth, exotoxin production, and exotoxin binding to host tissues.
In horses, that infection can follow *IM injections* of...Ivermectin ( antiparasitic) and it is fatal.
That same drug is "Heartguard" for our dogs to prevent heartworms.
Which makes me wonder...is HBOT clearing some of Bb's foot soldiers...compatriots? Making it easier to rid #1?
Bottom line: HBOT maybe working on multiple levels from different aspects than we are currently aware of.
Posts: 9439 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Did/does anyone use a cyst buster like Flagyl or Tindamax while doing any form of oxygen treatment. Any thoughts on this?
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Ouch, again having problems with my heart. It skips and i get that butterfly feeling in my stomach for just a second or so.
Last time i got it after i had taken a sauna and was doing mHBOT decompression. But this time it had nothing to do with that at all! I havent taken a sauna since, i make sure i stay hydrated, and my electrolytes should be fine too. I still need to do mhbot in a few hours.
3 days a go I started diflucan which gave me a worsening of some symptoms (especially today i feel like cr*p). So having this heart problem now also, makes me think it is caused by a candida (die-off) toxin.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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quote:Originally posted by JCarlhelp: Did/does anyone use a cyst buster like Flagyl or Tindamax while doing any form of oxygen treatment. Any thoughts on this?
I'm currently using Tindamax with mHBOT. I'd love to try out Will's protocol with mHBOT though I don't know how I'll be able to convince my doc to prescribe so many antibiotics at once.
Posts: 96 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2013
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posted
Here is a testimonial from Sara's Garden near Toledo, Ohio. The clinic is non-profit. I am not sure how much treatments cost but the mission is to provide HBOT affordably.
Anyone in the northern Ohio area should check out this clinic.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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oxygenbabe
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I sold my Integra Sequal (to a guy who needs it for his Cpap). I am hearing that they are out of business, and that the quality of the build of the Sequal is way better than the AirSep Intensity 10, which is what is available now. I was told by one guy that you should set it at 8, not 10, as it can't handle the chamber pressure. I was told by another guy that if you set it less than 10 you won't get a therapeutic session. Phoiph and others what do you hear. They arent making Sequal anymore, because AirSep bought them out and does not want to make two. I was also told the way the Sequal was built is too expensive for this day and age, not enough profit.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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I am aware that Sequal was bought out by Air Sep, and the Sequal Integra 10 has been discontinued.
I have both an Air Sep 10 New Life Intensity and a Sequal 10 Integra.
I greatly prefer the the Air Sep New Life Intensity to the Sequal Integra, because although they both offer 10 LPM air flow (liters per minute), the Air Sep has a PSI (pounds per square inch) of 20, whereas the Sequal has a PSI of 7.5.
I was advised that the Sequal should be set at 10 LPM oxygen flow prior to inflating the chamber, and then left at this setting even if the LPM drops due to the backpressure of the chamber as it fills. If the oxygen flow is set too high on this unit when using it with a hyperbaric chamber, it has to work too hard to compensate for the backflow, and the oxygen purity will decrease as a result.
An Airsep should be set no higher than 8.5 LPM when using a chamber, otherwise the backpressure will cause it to go into an oxygen "on demand" mode.
I recently had a Sequal serviced, and asked the opinion of a respiratory therapist there who owns the shop...he agreed that the Air Sep is a superior unit.
I have a source for the Airsep 10 New Life Intensity ...$1350 new, free shipping...this is the best price I have come across.
oxygenbabe
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Vitality Medical offers the AirSep Intensity 10 with digital oxygen monitor for $1335 plus $15 shipping in USA. They are in Utah. No need to be secretive about the source, Phoiph.
I heard just the opposite. Sequal is better built and doesn't heat up nearly as much. But it's too expensive to do those quality builds these days.
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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, you had "a" Sequal serviced, or "your" Sequal serviced. Are you stocking up on used concentrator to sell with your discount package?
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe,
FYI, I had "a" Sequal (not mine) serviced as a favor for someone who was too ill to lift and transport it themselves...
Your ongoing accusations are unfounded. As I have explained to you, I do not sell chambers, concentrators, or "packages". I OFFERED YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO VERIFY THIS, BUT YOU REFUSED...
These negative exchanges are inappropriate and not helpful for anyone on the forum...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Agree, I believe a moderator stated earlier that their is no indication that anyone is attempting to profit from this thread. I am more interested in getting my family better and we need data from users attempting MBOT as enough time is given.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I have a friend from many years ago that recovered from lyme with a home hyperbaric unit. At that time the idea of paying well over 10,000.00 just to see if I could replicate his results seemed unrealistic.
I should say I participated in one of Fife's studies at TAMU and felt an oxygen buzz for a few hours after each treatment and my bloodwork came back better. It was a CFS study and not a lyme study as I was misdiagnosed at the time. So the whole idea of having access to a more affordable used unit to use every day has my interest.
With that being said it's geting very tiring to see Oxy constantly attacking Phoiph at every twist and turn. I was glad you made your point Oxy at first that your results were not the same as Phoiph as we need to hear both sides of the story. At this point you have taken it way beyond that.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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oxygenbabe
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Maybe I'll turn out to be right. At this point, I guess I'll have to go investigate, which is not hard for me to do. I've let sleeping dogs lie until now. Engaging with Phoiph directly will prove nothing to me (she wanted me to contact her by PM because she said some folks might buy my concentrator, and I said she could have them contact me directly, not surprising that nobody did.)
My original point here is that the Sequal is a better machine, it's sad that it isn't being made anymore.
I also have given everybody, rather than saying "I have a source" which requires them to contact me privately!! for the best price (which makes me wonder, and this should not be an attack, but it makes me wonder about comissions from this source, or otherwise, just list the source!) the best price in USA, and any of you can just buy it directly from Vitality Medical. I have no problem being transparent, rather than an unnamed "source". I also know where you can get reconditioned Sequal for $650 and a two year warranty with free shipping both ways if it needs repairs (according to a doctor friend of mine). If anybody is interested, I'll post the source HERE, openly.
How is that not helpful, and open, and transparent? Why claim a source, but you have to contact me by PM!?!?!
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I can honestly say I talked with a seller yesterday and he said go with Air Sep over Sequal. So it's okay if you prefer Sequal there is no need for anyone to be "right" or "wrong".
As far as Phoiph asking to pm you over a business transaction, I would have done the same thing. I don't want to read all the details of someone selling something on lymenet nor do most. I would have been grateful if someone offered to help me out and would have happily used pm to discuss things nobody is interested in reading on a public board.
I inquired with Phoip about a used chamber and the only thing she has access to at the moment are small chambers so she offered to help me look at the private market such as craigslist if I was too sick to research it on my own. I as well as most of the other posters on this thread don't consider her to be the shady person you imply she is.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
My understanding, from having communicated with Phoiph, is that she is not selling anything. Everyone knows that rule here and needs to abide by it on this site.
Posts: 13155 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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CD57
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posted
Yikes, O2 babe! what is the deal with your posts re Phoiph??
Forgive me, but you sound a bit paranoid. Phoiph has freely provided her time and guidance to any of us who are interested. We have said this several times on this thread. You act as though she is hawking suspicious snake oil, when in fact she is not hawking anything....as I understand it, she was very ill and wants to share her story in the spirit of paying it forward. Oy!
Don't mean to attack *you* but I am getting tired of this....some of us need to gather all the info we can when we are ill, to make our own treatment decisions. The LLMDs just dont have all the answers. This is the frontier of mHBOT home use chambers, there really isn't data out there about anyone else having done it ... consistently and for a long time.
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