posted
Hi Phoiph, I know you have had a lot of success with Parkinson's patients and mhbot. For them, would you still recommend the keto diet and 1 hour per day in chamber? Also, at what point do antioxidants start to interfere with mhbot's efficacy? My dad is on high dose thiamine for PD, and apparently it is a powerful antioxidant. Would be grateful for any advice! Thank you
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Phoiph
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Hi LadyT,
Although I am not qualified to recommend any specific medical treatment for Parkinson's; I have witnessed what has been recommended for (and helped) patients by my neurologist/hyperbaric specialist contact. She mainly recommends a home chamber for long term treatment, and monitors her patient's progress with brain scans. She also may have specific individual recommendations for each patient regarding diet, supplements, etc.
It is not clear at what point antioxidants start to interfere with mHBOT's efficacy, but it is my understanding that people with Parkinson's can be severly deficient in Thiamine, and supplementation can reduce (or even reverse) some neuro symptoms.
In which case, you are not just "supplementing", but treating a severe deficiency, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about combining the therapy with mHBOT.
Since everyone is different, I would also consult a knowledgeable nutritionist about the keto diet for your dad personally, as I know it can be very helpful for Parkinson's (and other neuro conditions) but is also difficult for some metabolisms to handle. Some may also benefit by a paleo-type diet which may be easier to adhere to.
Also, FYI, here is a video which explains the general relationship between antioxidants and hyperbaric:
Although I am not qualified to recommend any specific medical treatment for Parkinson's; I have witnessed what has been recommended for (and helped) patients by my neurologist/hyperbaric specialist contact. She mainly recommends a home chamber for long term treatment, and monitors her patient's progress with brain scans. She also may have specific individual recommendations for each patient regarding diet, supplements, etc.
It is not clear at what point antioxidants start to interfere with mHBOT's efficacy, but it is my understanding that people with Parkinson's can be severly deficient in Thiamine, and supplementation can reduce (or even reverse) some neuro symptoms.
In which case, you are not just "supplementing", but treating a severe deficiency, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about combining the therapy with mHBOT.
Since everyone is different, I would also consult a knowledgeable nutritionist about the keto diet for your dad personally, as I know it can be very helpful for Parkinson's (and other neuro conditions) but is also difficult for some metabolisms to handle. Some may also benefit by a paleo-type diet which may be easier to adhere to.
Also, FYI, here is a video which explains the general relationship between antioxidants and hyperbaric:
thank you for your reply! Would you feel comfortable in sharing the neurologist/hyperbaric specialist's name in a DM? I would be interested in contact her. I appreciate the information you gave. Thank you again!
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Phoiph
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Sure...I will PM you her info.
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posted
Hello, did/does anyone here have a dysautonomia diagnosis, and how did mhbot help? Thank you!
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kgg
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Hi, LadyT. What symptoms of dysautonomia are you dealing with? I believe there is research showing it helps with POTS.
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Phoiph
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Lady T,
Yes, there is evidence that hyperbaric improves parasympathetic tone, which is out of balance in dysautonomia.
I had POTS when I had Lyme, but no longer have it.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Ive been out of the loop for a while. I've been very sick. A sick building apartment for 8 years, new DX of mold illness, an HLA-DR 'mold' gene, labs confirming mold illness, and worsening MCAS/HI. I moved to my new apartment a year ago. My now Ex LLMD didn't want me doing Hbot until the last phase of treatment, so I rarely used my Hbot chamber.
Which brings me up to Now. I have a 13 year old Respiro (am I allowed to say names, companies, etc?). The past 8-9 years it hasn't been used much. Relying on meds, ABX. Now my chamber's overhead window is leaking!!! Financially I'm on SSDI and money is tight, but I'm frugal. So, calling on repair possibilities. A Diving company said they could repair the window for $800 but all 3 windows should be replaced, as the improved pressure will put leak stress on the remaining 2 windows' seams. That's a tough bill but I could eat it for a year of paying it off. 2nd option: I contacted the manufacturer. They say my best option is a new Hbot chamber bladder for $6,000. Which is WAY over my budget, but pragmatically I could pay it off in 30 months. They also said they can Try to repair my window (just 1??) for $2,100, but the newer chambers use a different material and what they use now for repairs may not meld well with a 13 year old chamber, and their repair cutoff is 11 year old chambers, but they can try if I want. Advice?
-------------------- Lyme: 1991 DXed: 2008
'Do not go where the path may lead; go where there is no path and leave a trail.' Emerson Posts: 47 | From Georgia | Registered: May 2012
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Phoiph
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Hi Beloved,
I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately, sitting idle is not great for chambers or concentrators. Also very frustrating to hear your ex-LLMD advised you against using it.
I can help you get a brand new setup with warranty for much less than they are quoting you for replacement of the bladder, especially if you can use your existing concentrator. I personally would not put the money into a 13 year old chamber.
There are also rent-to-own possibilities, and I know of a couple of newer, lightly used chambers for sale (I would not recommend buying an older used chamber in most cases).
Yes, I will PM you. The concentrator and condenser seem fine. I am eager to get back into it as soon as possible. I miss my mHbot Pod and dives!
-------------------- Lyme: 1991 DXed: 2008
'Do not go where the path may lead; go where there is no path and leave a trail.' Emerson Posts: 47 | From Georgia | Registered: May 2012
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Phoiph
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For anyone still thinking "more is better"...
Finally, research is catching up and reporting what we've practiced and known for years.
A comparison of the effects (and safety) of mild vs high pressures:
Hyperoxia: Effective Mechanism of Hyperbaric Treatment at Mild-Pressure
posted
Hello everyone! Hope you all had a great summer.
A quick update from my end. I have made good progress with my symptoms! I'll be selling my chamber.
If anyone is looking for a good deal on a lightly used premium OxyNova 8 chamber, feel free to contact me. Spacious, top quality, made in Canada chamber with a transferable lifetime warranty.
Thanks to everyone in this community for helping me get better! And especially for this thread on HBOT.
Admins: if this is an inappropriate post, sorry and feel free to remove. Thank you.
-------------------- Putting lyme, bart, bab into remission Posts: 9 | From Europe | Registered: May 2022
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Phoiph
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chillpill~
So happy to hear you're doing well!
Can you remind me how many sessions you've done, etc.?
You mentioned your chamber is "lightly used", so you probably already know I'm going to try to talk you into keeping your chamber :)
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I haven’t been on here in a few years due to concentrating on other health issues (SIBO). I am not 100% certain that my illness stems from a tick, but regardless was hoping to gain some insight. I’ve had neuropathy for many years, however the past 2 years I’ve barely had any symptoms. Then I took bactrim for a kidney infection and suddenly I had nonstop pretty severe burning pain. Has this happened to anyone else? I also notice extra burning when I go in the chamber, although am starting out back out extremely slow. I thought nothing could be worse than my stomach pain but now I know how very wrong I was and I am very very scared.
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Phoiph
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Hi Determined,
So sorry this happened. Peripheral neuropathy is a reported side effect of Bactrim (and other antimicrobials), especially in those who have had PN in the past.
Be VERY consistent with your chamber! Also crucial is a clean diet, quality sleep (if you can), frequent rest (reclining with legs up), and gentle movement/exercise to move lymph. Avoid all toxins, get sunshine, drink lots of water, and reduce stress as much as possible. Don't over-do.
I had 24/7 burning neuropathy for years without relief. It is a brutal symptom, but the chamber took care of it. PM me if you need to talk
This will get better!!!
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kgg
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Chillpill, first of all, I am thrilled to hear you are doing so much better! But like Phoiph, I caution about getting rid of the chamber.
I went about 3 years without diving, while being a cut flower farmer. In hindsight, that was the wrong move. If I had done it right, I would have been doing some sort of maintenance dives. After three years of no diving, I developed burning mouth syndrome from an autoimmune condition. Diving would have kept that in check.
Just a thought, fwiw.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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Agreed...and Determined's post above is another reminder that "stuff happens".
Especially with Covid et al. on the loose now, I wouldn't advise anyone to part with their chamber-superpower.
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Thank you for the reply. I feel so alone and scared. I had an amazing year last year and it feels like I’m being punished for some reason. Have you heard anyone having extra burning from being in the chamber?
At first u was hopeful that the Bactrim just stirred up some infections like Lyme but it’s been two months and it’s still here and possibly even worse. I was also taking candibatin protocol for SIBO. Do you think it’s safe to take that again while using the chamber? It helps a ton with the SIBO but now wondering if it make things worse. I’ve been off that as well for 1.5 weeks. Thank you for the help and being there for me.
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Phoiph
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Determined, I'm giving you a call now...
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Hehe hey Phoiph and Kgg. Good points and I see what you mean. There are other factors prompting me to sell this lovely chamber including freeing up some space! You guys are right though and the smart move for me would be to keep it but it's just not a great fit (no pun intended!) for this season of my life. Appreciate your guys' feedback as always. Thanks!
-------------------- Putting lyme, bart, bab into remission Posts: 9 | From Europe | Registered: May 2022
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It's been a long time and of course my story is convoluted. There are benefits from mHBOT that have lasted years and some that faded. Plus as I seem to be aging (and I thought I would get younger!), new Sx keep cropping up.
One of those is moderately severe, constant tinnitus due to a drug I took a couple of years ago.
I use my chamber just based on intuition these days. I had only been using it a couple of times a month until recently when I started back on daily, 1 hour dives with one new issue.
I am wondering if anyone else here has tinnitus and whether diving exacerbates the intensity. Each time I dive the sound is much louder for a few hours after and in general seems to be getting worse.
Please share anything related. Thanks!
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Phoiph
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Welcome back, Digby...great to hear from you!
I have also experienced a temporary increase in tinnitus on the rare occasion that I have fallen asleep and stayed in my chamber too long.
I have not experienced an overall worsening (and possibly an improvement) of (relatively mild) tinnitus over thousands of dives.
I do have a theory. Oxygen is a vasoconstrictor, and constriction of blood vessels is known to increase tinnitus symptoms (temporarily, in this case).
But, as we know, with the additional pressure of hyperbaric, there will actually be much more oxygen reaching the brain and ear, resulting multiple healing responses and improvement (as per most studies I've read on hyperbaric/tinnitus).
I understand the temporary exacerbation after a dive, but when you say "in general" the tinnitus seems to be getting worse, do you mean since you recently started mHBOT again consistently, or has it been generally getting worse over time?
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I definitely experience an increase in the tinnitus toward the end of the session and afterward for a few hours. As far as it generally getting worse, it clearly is, but I can't definitively correlate that to the dives as the intesity tends to cycle anyway.
I figure over time that I will be able to figure that out. My concern is if it is doing any damage. The volume increase is very significant.
Do you have access to any studies on hyperbaric/tinnitus? If so, I would love to read them.
Be Well my friend!
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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Thank you Phoiph! That eases my concerns and I learned a few new things about HBOT in the Science Direct article. Great stuff!
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Phoiph
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Keep us posted, Digby!
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I was wondering if anyone has/had SIBO and if you had any success with chamber and diet alone? I currently use the chamber everyday and do a carnivore/sometimes ketovore type diet. I am trying to avoid antibiotics (usually do Rifaximin and/or Candibactin) but may need to do them again. Thanks
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kgg
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Hi, Determinedtobeatthis. I love that name! There is research that shows diving, even in mild chambers helps to heal the gastrointestinal tract. It helps with Crohn's, IBS etc. It helps with healing the mucous membranes that line the gi tract. It helps with motility. It is just good for the gut. =)
I don't blame you for not wanting to take antibiotics. And I was going to suggest a carnivore/keto diet. But you are already doing that! Excellent!! I can hear Dr. Ken Berry in my brain right now. ..."NO! You don't need antibiotics! Just stick to carnivore and your gut will heal." He probably would have put the H word in there too. ;-)
I am skeptical that the testing for SIBO is accurate. And I am not convinced that the treatment does anything. It is something we tried for my son when he was really sick and they were searching for why. It did nothing except make our pocketbook lighter.
There is another Keto doc I saw the other day, scoffing at the SIBO diagnosis. Saying it is just inflammation. Go low carb/keto/carnivore and you decrease inflammation. Plus diving decreases inflammation!
You are on the right track. Keep on keeping on!
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Thank you for your reply. I agree that I need to keep with the carnivore diet. It’s been very difficult because the increased fat/protein makes me feel extra nauseous and gives me a lot of indigestion, possibly because of my slow motility. I have tried a lot of different motility agents but no help (I just have upper intestine dysmotility, not lower). I definitely think SIBO is over diagnosed but not nearly as much as IBS. Antibiotics have always worked for me as long as I switch up the type and I got a glorious 9 month remission once after rifaximin. The problem is it always comes back. So hopefully the chamber is able to help me conquer the motility issue causing the overgrowth. It’s just such a hard waiting game when I almost feel like I’m making myself worse.
Posts: 18 | From NJ | Registered: Nov 2021
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kgg
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I am similar to you, that I typically will respond to antibiotics but then relapse. Diving stopped that pattern. You are right it is a hard waiting game. But so worth it!
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That’s amazing!! How long did it take you to feel like diving helped to lessen the issues or prevent them from coming back? Did you take the antibiotics and then the issues didn’t come back or did you just do chamber alone? It’s so hard to know what will help and what will hurt.
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Phoiph
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Determinedtobeatthis,
If it helps at all, severe digestive/motility issues were some of my initial symptoms, and also some of the last to completely resolve.
Other symptoms followed the same pattern with mHBOT treatment (i.e. the first symptoms to appear were among the last to leave, and conversely, the latest to appear were among the first to resolve).
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That does help to think about it that way. Since the severe burning started most recent I would be ecstatic if that was the first to lessen.
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kgg
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Determinedtobeatthis, I wish I had kept better records. That way I could say more specifically. But I didn't. For the most part I just slowly kept getting better.
I do not think I was on a heavy antibiotic treatment when I was diving. I had some teeth issues that required antibiotics. But otherwise, I just got in the chamber.
It is hard to know sometime what is helping what and when. All I know was diving was my main treatment.
Many describe a two set forward, one step back pattern. I don't recall that. But it is a slow process. I tell people it is a marathon not a sprint. Take it one day at a time and you will get there!
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kgg
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Excellent article! Thank you for posting it. It is very encouraging for traumatic brain injuries and people with fibromyalgia (which in many cases is Lyme/bartonella).
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Phoiph
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It amazed me to see how relatively recent most of the references/study dates were.
It reminded me how few studies were available when many of us started mHBOT (2011 in my case), Most researchers/practitioners hadn't even heard of mHBOT at that time!
It is so gratifying to see that the theories and experiences that we have been sharing here for over a decade are being validated in the literature.
It is also becoming much easier for newcomers to have confidence in the therapy, whereas most of us had to take a leap of faith and rely solely on each other's experiences and support.
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I am curious about the comment on "tricking" the body with temporary hypoxia by removing the masks for 5 minutes. If anyone knows of a study to support this, please share. It really seems counterintuitive to me.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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Great video, Digby!
The "tricking" of the body with temporary hypoxia, I understand to be what they're now calling "The Normobaric Oxygen Paradox—Hyperoxic Hypoxic Paradox".
My understanding is that it is the same mechanism we are already experiencing when doing consistent mHBOT sessions (a.k.a."hormesis", as you have previously posted about).
In the video, they are removing the masks for 5 minutes, but it is unclear if they taking routine "air breaks" (which are common practice when using high pressures to prevent oxygen toxicity), or if they are attempting to enhance the hormetic/paradox effect. (I believe they are just taking air breaks in the video.)
I recall kgg commenting some time ago that some mHBOT users were reportedly trying to manipulate their mHBOT protocols in this way (possibly on the Facebook site). Hopefully she will comment.
That said, the study stated an optimum ratio/cycle of hypoxia to hyperoxia has not yet been determined.
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Phoiph
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Here is another article on the subject of "The Hyperoxic-Hypoxic Paradox":
kgg
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Yes. Taking your mask off while diving is one of the new techniques being discussed on one FB group that I am no longer associated with. Dr. Sonners has a video on it. I will try to find the video. I have not adopted this, mainly because what I did worked.
The other new technique they were discussing was diving twice a day. I kept trying to warn people that this possibly could not be tolerated. Trying to get them to understand "less is more". But I am not sure how many heeded the warning.
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kgg
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Phoiph
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Thanks fof the info, kgg.
The studies discuss "intermittent hypoxia" in general terms, (i.e., the relative change from normobaric to hyperbaric with additional 02, back to normobaric), and describes the many associated healing responses and effects (which are already established).
The video describes the routine practice of doing "air breaks" every 30 minutes when using higher pressure and 100% oxygen to avoid oxygen toxicity. This practice has now been theorized to provide a concomitant beneficial "hypoxic" effect each time the mask is removed within a session, which may promote responses.
In essence, daily, consistent mHBOT sessions could be described as "intermittent", and the study states: "...the dose-response curve related to the applied pressure, time, and number of HBOT exposures...is still not fully understood, and further studies are needed to find the optimal HBOT protocols....".
Whether removing the mask intermittently while doing mild pressures and less 02 than described in the studies would trigger greater or faster healing responses is yet to be seen.
Since the "hypoxic" benefit described is already realized at the end of each mHBOT session (by returning to "normobaric"), my concern is that the benefit of the 02 (which has many healing properties in itself) may be compromised by the frequent interruptions.
As kgg posted, we already know what works; I personally would not implement this method with mHBOT.
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posted
Phoiph and kgg...thanks for the education! I understand how it could work now, just not sure it matters much at lower pressures. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to remove the mask for a couple of minutes halfway through a dive.
I've always suspected that 2, 30 minute dives a day might work better but I can't imagine committing to that.
Thanks!
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Oh, and as a follow up on my previous concern about sharply increased tinnitus after a dive, now that I am back to daily dives it has eased off. Not sure what was going on there. It lasted for about 8 dives and was a bit scary. So glad it stopped.
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Phoiph
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Hi Digby~
So glad to hear your tinnitus has improved!
About the two 30 minute dives...
I do recall Dr. Harch saying that it takes at least 45 minutes to realize the full benefits of mHBOT. I don't know if that has been supported in the literature.
If accurate, I wonder how that would play into the air-break-intermittent-schedule theory.
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