posted
Phoiph, Will you please send me the instructions too? My daughter starts mHbot next week and FIR Sauna to help detox. Thank you.
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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Toni...
I just PM'd you...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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kgg
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Even though I am not using it at present, I would appreciate a copy of your instructions. I have someone who may be start using out chamber.
Thanks in advance
Posts: 1770 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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kgg
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Even though I am not using it at present, I would appreciate a copy of your instructions. I have someone who may be start using our chamber.
Thanks in advance
Posts: 1770 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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kgg
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Even though I am not using it at present, I would appreciate a copy of your instructions. I have someone who may start using our chamber.
Thanks in advance
Posts: 1770 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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kgg...
I just PM'd you...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
My chamber arrived today! I will start tonight, slowly for 30mins. Im very excited!
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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They use SPECT imaging to show improvements with mHBOT after 10 treatements at 1.3ATA.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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CD57
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yay S13! keep us posted.
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Phoiph
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Phoiph, great site. I will enjoy reading it. I saw My LLMD yesterday. She is not convinced in its effectiveness. She thinks hard shell and benefits are temporary.
I said so are the benefits of antibiotics for alot of people. When I can afford it, I am getting a chamber. I don't care if I have to do it every day. If it gets rid of my symptoms, it is a small price to pay.
Maybe it requires long term maintenance but if you can have two to three weeks before symptoms start back, that is enough time for a vaction etc.
Last year I maxed out both my in-network and out of network expenses to the tune of $10,000 that is what my insurance covered. Most of that money was spent on symptom relief and a hospital stay after an ER visit.
I had an additional, $1600 out of pocket for IV rocephin that did nothing for me which my insurance did not cover.
I haven't added up my other nonreimbursable expenses for supplements, medicines etc. that I paid. I have a pile of papers in a folder.
I am sick of spending money and not seeing any benefit.
My PCP thinks my infection is now gone and that most of what is left is damage to my system.
I have a new mhbot clinic 30 minutes from my house. They charge $100 dollars a treatment.
After I save some money, I am going to set up some treatments. If I experience symptom relief, then I have my answer. Not too much else is working.
All who are doing mHBOT, please keep us posted on your progress. Even in stops and starts, if progress is made, it is helpful to know.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Phoiph
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Soccermomma...
In my opinion benefits are often only temporary as your doctor said...but this is often because people quit treating too soon with mHBOT, or don't treat consistently enough.
I may sound like a broken record, but this is not a sprint, it is a marathon. I treated daily for one whole year without taking a day off...and then it was a short vacation, and I resumed immediately when I returned.
I thought I was well at that point (I was actually traveling again, etc., after not having left the house for 5 years), but now that I have been using my chamber for 2-1/2 years, I realize how much further I have come since then. Healing takes time.
If I had quit treatments after the usual 40-day protocol (which I almost did, as I didn't notice benefit yet at that point), I am 100% positive I would have not become well.
So, although I'm very happy when I hear that people are considering mHBOT, my concern is that they will buy 40-60 treatments a clinic, and spend thousands, and regardless of whether or not they receive benefit in this short time, it is most likely not going to be enough time for the treatment to "stick"...and they are left with no ongoing treatment.
This is why I encourage people to consider a home chamber...which is an investment that can always be re-sold...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I share your opinion. My plan is to get a chamber for home. What I was trying to say is that last year alone I spent the money that could have been used on a chamber and did not see any improvement.
I am not going to make that mistake this year. However, I will try some sessions at this clinic so that I will now what to do etc.
mHBOT works for alot of things. I think it will truly help with my remaining symptoms at the very least. If it provides a "cure, then I am blessed all the more.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Phoiph
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Soccermama...
Great. I know I keep belaboring that point...but I just want to be clear and don't want to mislead anyone!
I agree about the money...I try not to think about how much I spent over 8 years trying to get well...I could have bought a fleet of chambers...:)
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Hi all, I've had my own chamber for a few months now. It's a used chamber and came with a 10L oxygen generator is that adequate. Thanks
Posts: 5 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Jan 2014
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posted
If you mean 10 liters per minute, it should be. What is the maker? Has it helped?
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Make sure the oxygen concentrator provides enough pressure to compensate for the mhbot chamber. Otherwise you will have no flow.
If your concentrator has an airflow indicator you can verify this easily.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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Yes, as S13 said...
There are 2 main things to consider when buying an oxygen concentrator to be used with a mHBOT chamber...
1. The PSI (pounds per square inch) must be high enough to compensate for the backpressure of the chamber. If it is too low, it will not only produce less 02 flow, but will damage the concentrator. The oxygen concentrator that I recommend is 20 PSI (well above the 4.2 PSI backpressure of the chamber).
2. The LPM (liters per minute) must be adequate. This is important, because when breathing 02 through a mask, the flow must be high enough to push the exhaled carbon dioxide out of the mask vents. The oxygen concentrator I recommend is 10 LPM.
A respiratory therapist I have spoken to recommends using a mask that covers both your nose and mouth, as both the nasal cannula and nose mask deliver less oxygen...
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oxygenbabe
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Please remember, Phoiph's experience is rather unique. Many have done far more than 40 treatments, and not gotten seemingly completely well. Just because hbot both hardchamber and mild is a very helpful adjunct treatment, please don't take an N of 1 and Phoiph's "opinion" which can be stated in such a way it seems to be fact, that buying a chamber and using it daily will get you well over time. It is helpful, but it is extremely rare that on its own, it brings people to full functionality.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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I appreciate Oxygenbabe's point.
Again, I believe my success (and what makes me a "N of 1") was/is due to the length of time I have done mHBOT daily consistently (along with the diet and increasing activity).
As I have said, I have not found any mHBOT users yet who have also used mHBOT in this same way, as many have given up after 40 or so treatments (as I almost did), or have used it longer but only inconsistently over time.
All I can do is post my observation and "N of 1" experience, which I believe I am obligated to do.
In my opinion, what would be really helpful information for all, would be for someone who already has a chamber and is very knowledgeable (i.e., Oxygenbabe) to commit to a consistent, 1 hour daily protocol for at least 6 months, and give us a progress report at that time...
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oxygenbabe
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You're incorrect. I personally know someone who has done it daily for about 10 years. Is helpful--but hasn't stopped all kinds of health problems, surgeries, etc, due to lyme sequalae as well as other problems.
"I believe" is belief. I think you are very lucky--and more power to you--and most people are not going to have your response just doing mild hbot. It's a great adjunctive therapy, as I always say.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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oxygenbabe
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As to me, Phoiph, I got sicker and could not function when I tried to do it even 3-4 times a week. I cannot do a lot. I have a feeling it starts stimulating yeast, but I can't say that for sure. But it felt like yeast symptoms, including low grade fevers, itchy, foggy, etc. Very yeasty. No, not like a lyme herx which I know very well from doing deep dive. Deep dive was highly effective but it's prohibitively expensive and I do not think it's healthy to do longterm even though I know a few who have.
Whatever the reason, I was able to tolerate about twice a week mhbot without losing function--and that twice a week was very helpful. I had to find the happy medium. Then eventually I went to twice a month. I would never do it every day, I'd end up losing all my gains.
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oxygenbabe
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Oh, and I should add, unlike you--I had an immediate (same day) response to both deep dive and mild hbot. Different--deep dive killed off a lot, caused herxes, and gave much more energy, and started healing some other problems (but after stopping slowly lost most of those gains tho I always credit deep dive for saving my life initially).
Mild...when I finally got to do it after 18 months of no doing any hbot, one hour, and my buzzing toxicity was gone. I felt much better. So I always had an immediate response. I'm very sensitive, though.
As I said, it's a nice and powerful adjunctive therapy. And it's good that chambers are fairly reaosnable now--with leasing programs, and craigslist--BUT it's very YMMV (your mileage may vary). So dont hold out too much hope for that single-approach magic cure, folks. Mostly, chronic tbd is not that way.
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Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe...
Thanks for sharing your information; it is really valuable. I believe the more we post details about our experience with mHBOT, the more realistic and accurate picture we can get about how it works across personal conditions, protocols, etc.
So, to recap:
-You felt better (less toxic "buzzy" feeling) with your first mHBOT dive after an 18 month break from HBOT, and felt benefit by doing dives twice a week, but couldn't tolerate more frequent sessions, or you would feel more ill.
-In my case, I felt no positive effect for over 50 daily mHBOT dives, but then with continual daily dives, experienced a gradual 2 step forward, one step back pattern that resulted in return of wellness over time.
-Variations in our experience/background include the fact that you had previously done HBOT but stopped 18 months before starting mHBOT, and I had previously done antibiotics, but stopped 5 years before starting mHBOT. Another variable, of course, is the different protocol we used (daily vs.twice/week).
-You also mention knowing someone who has done daily dives for 10 years, for whom it has been "helpful", but they still experience health issues.
-I am currently in contact with several people who have recently started regular mHBOT, and, although their early responses are up and down, they are reporting some very positive changes.
The truth is, nobody knows how many people will reach the level of wellness that I have with mHBOT, and I appreciate that you don't want people to believe that everyone will have the same results, or that this is a "magic cure" for everyone. I have never claimed that, or wanted to raise false hopes, either.
That said, I also don't believe I was just "very lucky", nor do I believe I am completely unique. I believe there is potential here for other people to get well also, and that potential needs to be explored.
We simply don't have enough data to draw conclusions, and unfortunately, with oxygen being un-patentable, we can't hold our collective breath waiting for more research from "Big Pharma". So, like everything else with Lyme, we're left to figure it out ourselves.
I trust that with more people committing to regular mHBOT treatments and reporting their results, a clearer picture will begin to emerge over time...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I would add that another strategy of HBOT first then MBOT immediately after has not been fully vented, at least know one has mentioned that. I know that Phoiph advocates slow and steady for detox, building immune system etc. My wife is in the process of HBOT for 20-40 treatments and then will immediately switch to MBOT. She is seeing both improvements (joint pain especially) and rough days of what is assumed to be a herxheimer. I will continue to post. It has been my reading experience that HBOT was a very hot topic after the Fife study and lots of people started doing it. I have talked to at least 4 chamber operators in the last few days and some have claimed great results and even said lasting remission. I am a little suspicious of this because HBOT seemed to wane a little attention in the the last 10 years but seems to be popping back up again.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Here is another interesting piece of information. Byron White of Byron White formulas that are well recognized on this site wrote an article many years ago on MBOT. I contacted his office with the following responses:
1. Am not at liberty to speak for Byron's personal life and what he used but know he advocates for mild hyperbaric.
2. Yes our formulas can be utilized at the same time as using hyperbaric. In fact some people take the formulas 30 min prior to using their MBOT.
Seems that some people use these two in combination. Lots of unanswered questions that only time and further experiences will tell.
I am not a doctor so none of my posts should be taken as any kind of medical advice.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, I am really glad you're better but I take issue with your stating beliefs in a persuasive way, when they really are not based on good evidence. "That said, I also don't believe I was just "very lucky", nor do I believe I am completely unique. I believe there is potential here for other people to get well also, and that potential needs to be explored."
That's why I keep pushing back, while keeping in mind I think it's an underutilized and valuable therapy so in that way, it's good you're highlighting it.
JCarl, yes, doing deep dive followed by mhbot, that would have been ideal had both been available to me way back then.
Oh, I forgot to add that I was having debilitating migraines, and mhbot helped. I have had to do a lot of things, though, to handle the lyme induced migraines. I've had to give up beans, drink lots of fermented beverages, get lots of fresh air, avoid too much sugar, and the mhbot--and all those things together have helped the crushing SLYME migraines.
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Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe...
This is a "forum".
Beliefs, theories, opinions, observations, and experiences are encouraged here, even those that may be contrary.
My "beliefs" are based on my experience/observations, just like yours are based on your experience/observations. They just happen to be different. This doesn't make either of our positions less valid or less worthy of expression.
The truth is, neither of our positions are "based on good evidence"...because there is really not enough data at this point to draw conclusions...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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CD57
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Phoiph is right on there being no data. I have spent hours scouring and looking for data; there is none. WE are the data. I for one am so glad that she has posted her experiences and offered to spent much of her own time offering information offline. Thank you Phoiph!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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oxygenbabe
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But Phoiph, what are your beliefs based on?
There are people such as James Johnson a long time ago who did 150 deep dives in a row, and went into remission for quite a while.
Wild Condor on these forums, only believes in monochamber deep dive, and did hundreds of them along with many antibiotis, to recover.
It's not like you're the only one. WHen I did deep dive in Great Barrington for 2 months, there was another gal who did it for probably five or six months, without antibiotics.
But those were all deep dive.
I know of one other person when I first posted about a chamber, noodly doo, bought an mhbot, who got a very good response. I don't think he was nearly as sick as you. This was about ten years ago now. If he stopped for a few weeks, he'd stat to relapse.
Your belief isn't reflected in the experiences out there, where in your case, there is no response for months, and then steady improvement JUST doing a home chamber for these complex tickborne diseases.
YMMV, folks, but I doubt you'll get any reports back as extraordinary as yours--and unusual in that there was no response for so long, and then a response. The issue is, people are spending many thousands of dollars based on hope they'll have a similar response to yours. That's why I'm leavening it with all I've seen heard and experienced myself. HBOT and mHBOT are not new treatments. OTOH, will people be helped? I think so.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I don't think people are blind or being manipulated. Of course, we are all looking for something that will take us across the finish line.
I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and owe many, many thousands of dollars still on various treatments. I am now having to think outside the box.
No one knows for sure, what is working because so little research is being done. However, one FACT is known based on the placebo and nocebo effect and that is a person's belief in a treatment is crucial to its success.
Therefore, when someone continually posts a dissenting opinion it can undermine a treatment that may be beneficial.
I think we have the point that mhbot may not cure and that we should not base our opinion on one testimonial. Enough said already.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I second soccermama in supporting Phoipfs posts.
Hyperbaric and its son MBOT is a mainstream, widely used modality with many conditions that are reimbursable.
As someone new to the site, it is helpful for me personally to read what has really worked for some patients, especially if the treatments are mainstream and relatively safe.
Chipster
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oxygenbabe
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Cautionary opinions from me who has long experience with both forms and knows numerous people who used hbot and mhbot short and longterm is useful when $10,000 or more is at stake.
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Phoiph
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The expense is certainly an issue for most people, so I often help them find alternative ways of accessing a chamber...including:
-Finding quality used equipment that is usually 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost of new equipment
-Passing on a portion of the discount (on new and used equipment) granted to me by the manufacturer (no, I am not a sales rep, nor do I take a cut...the other portion goes into a fund held by the manufacturer to purchase chambers to be used by the community on a donation basis)
-Finding cooperative partners in their vicinity to share costs/use
-Passing on information about creative financing possibilities, through benefactors, the manufacturer, and lenders that provide loans for medical equipment
Also, it must be kept in mind that a quality chamber is an investment that can be resold...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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oxygenbabe
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Why has the manufacturer granted you, a patient, a discount on purchase of all chambers? You mean that you buy the chamber and sell it to a patient, apparently at the same discount? Who can even verify the numbers, then? Even stranger yet, you've obviously talked to them at length, and created this unusual agreement--but you're doing this all anonymously on lymenet?
In fact, I think you would have to have set yourself up as a distributor--though I'm not sure what the legalities are? I can see why they'd benefit (the discount doesn't mean they aren't profiting. If you're selling chambers for them, they're happy).
Can you tell us where the fund is? Who at oxyhealth can verify this, and how do they decide to whom to donate chambers? What is the discount on a new solaris, a new respiro, and a new vitaeris? How large is the fund now, and are they donating it for lyme patients?
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oxygenbabe
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Cooperative partners rarely works out. Someone has to keep the chamber at their place--while others visit--I've not seen that work out very well.
Even used, chambers are expensive.
Selling them is not simple--though it can be done.
I'm trying to sell my oxygen concentrator now and though it has a 3 year warranty, and is very well priced, I've had absolutely no interest in it at all so far, nationwide.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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The manufacturer has granted me a discount because I have developed a rapport with one of the reps that I coordinate with, and I asked for the discount (to be passed on to the buyer) based on how many people I had referred to them. The rep knows that I became well with one of their chambers, and of my mission to spread the word on mHBOT. It is a win-win for both sides.
I do not buy chambers from them and re-sell to buyers. The transaction is done through the rep, and I handle/receive no money whatsoever. The accounting/fund is also held by the manufacturer through the rep.
The donation of the first chamber will likely be to a clinic that can provide space and supervision; these details have not been completely worked out yet.
I have set up many cooperative partner situations that are working out surprisingly well. The most challenging part is proximity...but when you are working with a Lyme support group, for example, there are usually enough people in need that live close enough to each other.
I have helped a number of people find chambers to buy/sell (no fee); finding a quality used chamber can be more of a challenge than selling one, in my experience.
I know of several people that may be interested in your concentrator, depending on the model, price, etc. Why don't you PM me, with the details?
Also, since I don't post people's personal information, if you PM me, I can give you the rep's contact information that I am coordinating with if you would like to verify my story...
Posts: 1984 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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oxygenbabe
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I am going to leave off posting about oxygen on lymenet for a while.
My final comment is: an anonymous poster, an anonymous rep, a fund nobody on the outside is monitoring, I suggest you get your chamber directly from oxyhealth, or via craigslist. But I don't really care what Phoiph and her rep are doing, or what the money situation is. I can just say, that nobody else has come on here yet to say they are getting *well* too just by mhbot. Some have some improvements. As to be expected, it's often a useful intervention along with all the other stuff people can and must do.
My concentrator is an Integra Sequal analog (little ball goes up and down), reconditioned with a 3 year warranty. Sequal has been bought out by AirSep, but this used to be the preferred one for OxyHealth. I don't want to do this secretly--you can have anybody interested post here or PM me. I only want my costs back, which was $550 to recondition, plus $75 ground shipping anywhere. Thanks. (Why do I have the sneaking suspicion Phoiph won't be forwarding people to me to PM directly? Just a hunch.)
[ 01-29-2014, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]
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CD57
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Phoiph has recently worked with me to find an affordable chamber, it was very creative, I am greatly indebted to her.
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oxygenbabe
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Who knows, CD57, what the real financial arrangements are. We never will. Let's see if *anybody* else who uses Phoiph's protocol reports remission.
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oxygenbabe
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Oh, and those who don't, should post. Nobody should be shy about mixed or negative results. We should know who has bought an mhbot since Phoiph has posted, what their protocol is, and their results. There should be a thread where people can assess. No?
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Phoiph
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We haven't heard from TNT in a while. I wonder how the mHBOT treatments are going. Are you out there TNT?
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Is it normal to have an irregular heartbeat during and after decompression? Ive never experienced a symptom like this before. I do have a pounding heart which comes and goes for the last 6 months now.
But just today i noticed the irregularity on decompression. My heart seems to stall for a second or so, and it feels a bit funny inside my chest (hard to explain). After this it continues normally.
It kept repeating a few times, and now 15mins after decompression i dont notice it any more. Any thoughts?
Note; in the last few days ive started to focus more on a possible systemic candida. Perhaps that could be related? Oil of Oregano, gluten free diet, lowered carb intake.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Strange, just now it happened again a few times. Seems to be triggered when im moving. While im sitting still my heart is ok. So perhaps it is not related to the mhbot decompression?
So could it be the candida then? Oh yeah, also started taking SF722 3 days a go.
Another sidenote; in the last days ive also experienced more joint crackling/pain and dizziness.
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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I did take a sauna earlier today, about 2 hours before the mHBOT session. Could that together with the altered diet result in shortage of electrolytes?
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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Hi S13...
I'm not sure if it is the same in the Netherlands where you live, but here a doctors prescription is required to buy a new or used chamber/oxygen concentrator from a vendor...so I'm assuming you were medically cleared for mHBOT...
That said, I doubt it is related to hyperbaric itself. I think it is more likely related to the sauna...as it can definitely deplete minerals and electrolytes.
I also don't recommend doing both the chamber and sauna therapies concurrently, especially when just starting treatment. It is a lot for the body to handle, even for a person who is well.
At the very least, consider lengthening the intervals between the 2 treatments as much as possible (without cutting back on your daily mHBOT ...
no, we dont need a doctors prescription for mhbot here. There is no regulation for it because it is not used that much. But then again, i should be medically fine, since all doctors in the last year couldnt find anything wrong with me. So medically speaking im "healty".
Yeah i also doubt it was the mHBOT. I have read that candida can mess with your heart, which may be why i have had a pounding heart for almost 6 months now.
What is your opinion on mHBOT and candida? Some say the oxygen can cause candida to thrive?
Posts: 381 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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