posted
Whats the deal can adults get this because its spreading like a wildfire. Anyone getting the vaccine?
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
No way.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
No way too the vaccine or no way to adults getting it?
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
You can go look at studies of measles outbreaks in the past. People that were vaccinated still contracted the measles. My immune system is already going nuts, I'm not going to let anyone inject me with anything else. Just my opinion. You know what they say about those.
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
I had the vaccine as a kid, hopefully still works. The outbreak at Disney really highlights what a great asset to public health vaccination has been.
I feel bad for the parents who have been scared into not giving their children measles, pertussis or mumps vaccines.
My cousin lives in Cali and won't let unvaccinated children or adults into her home as her child is too young to be vaccinated.
I guess not vaccinating your kids is that entrenched where she lives, and it has nothing to do with immune compromised individuals. I opt out of the flu shot because of my lyme issues, but I did get a DTAP booster cause I stepped on a rusty nail.
I think a lot of those parents believe MMR causes autism, despite the doctor of that study being exposed as a total fraud.
A small percentage of Vaccinated individuals can get measles, esp if they never developed a lasting immune response. I'm not sure what your point is, sacred.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355
posted
I have the impression that people with lyme have wonky immune systems and vaccinations may not take.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
I am glad my Gamunex has - supposedly!!!! - measles antibodies in it.
Are there different strains of measles?
(Gamunex = IVIG/SCIG)
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
When you give consent to a vaccine, you are implying that you have done your homework and are aware of the manufacturers cautions.
The medical profession thus has no responsibility for any adverse reactions. If you have a serious reaction you must take it to the vaccine court.
According to the CDC, vaccines are usually safe and that is what you will hear on the news. But they need to go further and tell the whole story like they have to on the CDC site.
This is all from the CDC's own website:
This is the list of all ingredients in the various vaccines that you would want to check to make sure you or your children are not allergic to the ingredients.
To help prevent vaccine injuries and deaths, it is important to identify vaccine reaction symptoms because re-vaccination could result in a more severe reaction.
High fever (over 103F°) Skin (hives, rashes, swelling) High pitched screaming Collapse/shock (unresponsiveness) Excessive sleepiness Convulsions (seizures) Loss of muscle control Paralysis Joint pain Brain inflammation (encephalitis) Encephalopathy (brain damage) Physical, mental regression Sudden death
The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act established a federal vaccine injury compensation program. Claims must be filed within two years of a death and three years of an injury following vaccination.
Can u explain further.??
Posts: 82 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2012
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gigimac
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posted
Lymetoo, are u saying lyme patients don't usually catch contagious bugs or don't usually die from them?
Posts: 1535 | From Greensboro NC | Registered: Aug 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Maia,
You write: " . . . think a lot of those parents believe MMR causes autism, despite the doctor of that study being exposed as a total fraud. . . . " (end quote)
Actually, that is not true at all. Well, some "experts" said they were discounting, discrediting the work and in headlines they did -- but NOT with merit. They were wrong to discount so much good information on that topic and used any little bit of fluff to cover up the truth.
The most impressive connections by those pointing out vaccine additive dangers were simply not allowed . . . they were blocked because our society just could not handle the truth & our corporations would not allow it.
It only got a brief bit of daylight.
The "final word" that won had nothing to do with science or what really happened to thousands of children who did suffer from the additives in vaccines. The real fraud is the cover up as to the ingredients in the vaccines.
It may be hard to find now but be sure to find the absolutely excellent work that Ted Kennedy, Jr. did on this. Sadly his work alongside top researchers has all but been deleted from the web.
It was excellent work and the pharmaceutical companies just pounding him and the media, being puppets of the pharmaceutical industry, just followed suit.
And no one ever really listened in that the idea of vaccines, if they could be solo agents - for a select few devastating diseases - can be important but the additives are where the danger lies.
By the way, many of those who developed measles after Disneyland did have measles vaccines. The media does not bother to report that. -
[ 01-31-2015, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: -
By the way, many of those who developed measles after Disneyland did have measles vaccines. The media does not bother to report that. -
Wow! It's disgusting that fact is being hidden.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
For those parents that would like clean vaccines, you can use this company: http://soundchoice.org
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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MannaMe
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posted
When I was in 4th grade there was a measles outbreak at school. A lot of my classmates got the measles. I had them too and several of my younger siblings.
We all came through with no adverse effects. I don't recall any fuss and worry about 'surviving' the measles.
Posts: 2602 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I am ashamed of the media for not doing their jobs here of really exploring this. They have jumped on the bully & fear brigade. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Abxnomore
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posted
So what else is new? Is there any subject that they don't do that with? Maybe just one--Chronic Lyme.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
LOL for sure Abxnomore. =) There have been zero deaths from the measles n the U.S. in the last ten years, but there have been one hundred and eight deaths from the measles vaccine.
If they do get serious about Lyme, and develop a vaccine, I'll be last in line. lol I'll let other folks take the plunge first. =)
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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quote:Originally posted by gigimac: Lymetoo, are u saying lyme patients don't usually catch contagious bugs or don't usually die from them?
-
HAHAHA... made me chuckle! Succumb can mean "give in to" so .. I just meant that most Lyme patients do not get the viruses or other contagious things going around, whatever it may be.
Our immune systems are wired differently.
I didn't mean that we would or would not be more likely to "die" from such bugs.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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There have been zero deaths from the measles n the U.S. in the last ten years, but there have been one hundred and eight deaths from the measles vaccine.
- Too bad they haven't learned how to make vaccines that aren't lethal.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
The media is hyping the measles outbreak on behalf of the vaccine makers in conjunction with our government.
The media under our government's guidance in cooperation with the vaccine makers are all attempting to make the public angry at those who decline vaccines for the purpose of creating peer pressure so that everyone will get all vaccines.
It's the kind of foul propaganda, Hitttler used to make people hate my fellow Jewish brothers and sisters.
As someone said the vaccine is far more dangerous than the disease itself.
Posts: 107 | From new jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:As someone said the vaccine is far more dangerous than the disease itself. [/QB]
That is 100% ridiculous. Far more humans have died from the diseases than have ever died from the vaccines. Obviously every vaccine has risks and injuries have occurred, but far less than disease itself. The data shows this.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one to three of them die despite treatment and you can suffer permanent brain damage.
Rubella can cause miscarriage or the baby can be born with severe heart disorders, blindness, and deafness.
Smallpox was often a fatal infectious disease. Polio is also a crippling and potentially fatal infectious disease
Whopping cough can cause death in those under 6 months of age. Diphtheria caused death in children frequently, and the toxin permanently damaged organs in the body (heart, muscle, kidneys, and liver)
I am moving towards the idea that children should not be allowed into public school or certain public facilities without receiving a measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, or pertussis vaccine.
The only exceptions should be immune-compromised individuals. If you are that adamant, then home school your children and reduce the threat they cause to public health.
Take measles, the rate of infection in the US tripled in past years. Its always traced back to someone who had not been vaccinated traveling overseas then spreading it back at home due to low vaccination rates in their communities.
It's mind boggling. But perhaps, young children need to start dying again from preventable diseases for us to understand the tremendous benefits of vaccination, benefits that far outweigh the costs.
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - You write: " . . . think a lot of those parents believe MMR causes autism, despite the doctor of that study being exposed as a total fraud. . . . " (end quote)
Actually, that is not true at all. Well, some "experts" said they were discounting, discrediting the work and in headlines they did -- but NOT with merit. They were wrong to discount so much good information on that topic and used any little bit of fluff to cover up the truth.
Dr Wakefield was found to be a fraud, there is no "covering up the truth" going on. No one could reproduce his work (only 12 'subjects', BTW), and he was found to be paid for and stood to make money on an alternative to the MMR vaccine. The real conspiracy in this case is, when you dig a bit deeper into who he was, and fine out how unethical he was. Since thimersol has been out of MMR for 15 years, and autism rates have gone up and not down, it shouldn't be so hard to see that the autism link has no merit (along with numerous studies).
quote:The most impressive connections by those pointing out vaccine additive dangers were simply not allowed . . . they were blocked because our society just could not handle the truth & our corporations would not allow it.
I am not personally concerned about *most* vaccine additives. But I agree that we should be studying them more. Making vaccines safer should be important.
I'm more worried about my mercury exposure from seafood. Formaldehyde naturally occurs in our own bodies as a part of our normal metabolism and you receive far more exposure environmentally.
If you are worried about alum (Ive seen speculation of it linked to MS), I think it's only in DTP vaccine and Hep A and B. So for me, vaccine additives are more of a case by case basis.
quote:It may be hard to find now but be sure to find the absolutely excellent work that Ted Kennedy, Jr. did on this. Sadly his work alongside top researchers has all but been deleted from the web.
You can find Kennedy's work online. He accuses scientists of fraud over thimersol, yet that link has been discounted so many times, the dead horse simply cannot be beaten anymore. I expected better from him, as I loved his work with the NRDC. He has done a lot of harm to the autism community (I am a part of it as autism has stuck my family).
quote:By the way, many of those who developed measles after Disneyland did have measles vaccines. The media does not bother to report that.
That's easy to explain though. Vaccines aren't 100% effective for each person since we all have unique immune systems. Two doses of MMR are 97 percent effective against infection, so yes, a vaccinated person could be at risk if they are the unlucky 3%.
That's the point though, if vaccination levels remain upwards of 90%, then the small minority who did not mount a sufficient immune response or those who can't be vaccinated for health reasons, are protected. Measles was eradicated from the US in 2000, but we are still at risk from international travelers.
quote:Originally posted by SacredHeart: LOL for sure Abxnomore. =) There have been zero deaths from the measles n the U.S. in the last ten years, but there have been one hundred and eight deaths from the measles vaccine.
If you search the WHO data, In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally. Which is probably why woman in developing countries walk miles and line up to receive vaccines. They still see death. I think the plan is eradication by 2020.
In the US, measles deaths declined probably due to improvements in health care and nutrition. But I think there were still ~450 measles-related deaths yearly before vaccination. The bigger concern was serious complications that were frequent and costly, making vaccination worthwhile. I know a woman who is deaf from measles. There were a lot of hospitalizations due to pneumonia from the measles.
VAERS data reports death after vaccines, regardless if the vaccine was determined to cause the death. It's a passive surveillance system. So you need to look specifically if the 108 deaths were linked conclusively to the vaccine. A lot of people don't understand this. You also would have to compare X amount of confirmed/suspected deaths to X amount of total vaccinated, which is beyond the scope of the data.
It's pretty interesting, and you can see clearly where they state cause of death and whether or not they think it was related to the vaccine. Oftentimes it has no relation. I think encephalitis is the main cause of relation. Some patients had epilepsy or diabetes and a lot going on as well.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
I really don't want to add fuel one way or another to the vaccine debate, but I think about how widespread lyme and other stealth infections are and the fact that most people are unaware they and especially their little ones are infected. How many of these are our vaccine injuries?
I am awash with relief that we didn't suffer with any obvious detrimental vaccine reactions due to vaxing with a lyme compromised immune system. Knowing what I know now, we're all probably done with getting vaccinations of any sort.
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
my son got rotovisrus vacine and it screwed up his GI track.
my daughter got MMR vaccine around 1.5 yrs old or whatever age that is, and stopped talking and now has dyselxia and other LDs.
my son had chicken pox vacine and got chicken pox later WITH shingles at same time. ER dr confirmed it was from the vaccine.
....
i did not vaccine all my kids on schedule. there is no need to give a new born baby all that poison in its first year of life!!!
and I know people that went through measels too. gave them better immune system afterward., not saying lyme peopl should vaccinate! just saying that everyone is differrnt. but I would be picky.
polio for example, I htink we all need. and maybe tetinus, depending on your lifestyle, but other than that, most are not needed. it is all hype.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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LisaK
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Member # 41384
posted
and if kids have underlying conditions - like undiagnosed lyme- they will be worse off form that vaccine anyway!
maybe that is why my kids has such reactions. who knows.
you might as well play russian roulette. to me it's the same.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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I am moving towards the idea that children should not be allowed into public school or certain public facilities without receiving a measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, or pertussis vaccine.
[/QB]
If you choose to vaccinate your children that is your choice. They should not be in danger of contracting the infections, so why would you require mine to be vaccinated as well? Doesn't the vaccine produce proper immunity and thus safeguard your children?
Our daughter was damaged by the MMR at 15 months. Within 24 hrs she developed a high fever and then gradually lost much of the speech and gross motor development she had gained up to that point. It took 5 years of speech therapy/OT to bring her back. The doctor said it was a coincidence. I think not.
She was diagnosed at age 10 with congenital lyme/bart. How was I to know her immune system was compromised when I allowed the vaccination? I had no way of knowing.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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LisaK
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Member # 41384
posted
drs know. they are just hiding it. either tucked under theier brains or right up front, but they know.
I had 3 kids all go through all kinds of testing for LDs for years. all the drs of psychology will ask you- and neuro psychs doing exams, they all asked if I ever saw changes after a vaccine.
and it is a fact that at least 15-20 yrs ago there was a huge study done in another country that showed a certain percent of kids with autism had live measels living in their GI system. once they were treated they started to show improvement.
US didnt' give credit for the study though because for some dub reason or another, I cannot remember what. but it was B.S.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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quote:Originally posted by Maia_Azure: It's pretty interesting, and you can see clearly where they state cause of death and whether or not they think it was related to the vaccine. Oftentimes it has no relation. I think encephalitis is the main cause of relation. Some patients had epilepsy or diabetes and a lot going on as well. [/QB]
Encephalitis - like the lyme/bartonella/babesia- induced encephalitis that my daughter suffered from since the day she was born. Light sensitivity, sound sensitivity, touch sensitivities. Later this included headaches and neck stiffness. Congenital infections. The mainstream doesn't even believe they exist.
Diabetes = autoimmunity in young children. Just like JA.
Lyme/co = autoimmunity, and immune dysfunction.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Dr. Wakefield and his co-author Dr. Walker-Smith have NOT been proven frauds. In fact, the British appeal court threw out all charges in this case.
Mr Justice Mitting called for changes in the way General Medical Council fitness to practise panel hearings are conducted in the future saying: "It would be a misfortune if this were to happen again."
Justice John Mitting ruled on the appeal by Walker-Smith, saying that the GMC "panel"s determination cannot stand. I therefore quash it."
He said that its conclusions were based on "inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a wrong conclusion."
The verdict restores Walker-Smith's name to the medical register and his reputation to the medical community.
This conclusion is not surprising, as the GMC trial had no actual complainants, no harm came to the children who were studied, and parents supported Walker-Smith and Wakefield through the trial, reporting that their children had medically benefited from the treatment they received at the Royal Free Hospital. -----------------------------------
However, the reporter, Brian Deer who is connected to GlaxoSmithKline spends all his time trying to perpetuate this misinformation.
Dr Wakefield recently stated:
“Now this question has been answered not by me, but by the courts, by the vaccine courts in Italy and in the United States of America where it appears that many children over the last thirty years have been awarded millions of dollars for the fact that they have been brain-damaged by MMR vaccine and other vaccines and that brain damage has led to autism. That is a fact.” --------------
And by the way, I don't believe that the pharma companies would pay vaccine damage money if they had the proof that their product was not responsible for damaging people.
Dr. Stephen J. Walker has published a new article,
Identification of unique gene expression in children with regressive autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and ileocolitis.
Dr. Wakefield's enemies love to say his research could not be replicated; well it has, several times now. Here's just the latest.
Here's the complete citation Citation: Walker SJ, Fortunato J, Gonzalez LG, Krigsman A (2013) Identification of Unique Gene Expression Profile in Children with Regressive Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and Ileocolitis. PLoS ONE 8(3): e58058. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0058058 ------------------------
Regardless of this issue, Pharmaceutical companies will always try to downplay the damage they have done and they do employ people to push their denials -- the best defense is offense!
-----------------
"Finnish scientists ID link between GSK's swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy"
December 17, 2014 | By Amirah Al Idrus
Of the more than 30 million people in almost 50 countries who have received GlaxoSmithKline's Pandemrix, close to 800 have developed narcolepsy. And now, for the first time, a team from Finland thinks it knows why.
Comparing Pandemrix with Arepanrix, a vaccine used in Canada with the same adjuvant, the researchers found that Pandemrix had more of one structurally altered viral nucleoprotein--a disparity lead researcher Outi Vaarala attributed to the way the vaccines were prepared. --------------
Vaccines can have side effects but pharma wants to push the herd mentality that we all must jump on the vaccine bandwagon.
Always do your own credible research and realize there is an agenda here. Make your own informed decisions because you have to live with the results.
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
All I know is today there saying the measles vaccine I got as a kid is no longer going to protect me.
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Stan, obviously your immunity has worn off, like so many others who have gotten the vaccine.
To the moms who are posting here: Don't waste your breath. I had a back and forth dialogue re vaccines with this Maia person which has since apparently been deleted. I really wonder why some people are here. #agendas
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Measles shots actually have a higher failure rate than you would expect, so no guarantee you will be protected.
And the flu shot often fails too when it is not a good match for the present year's flu.
This year's flu shot has been woefully ineffective, so why bother: ------------------
Flu vaccine offered Canadians little or no protection from virus this year: study
"Lead author Dr. Danuta Skowronski says the problem this year is that nearly all flu infections so far in Canada have been caused by H3N2 flu viruses, and virtually all the viruses spotted in Canada are different from the one in the vaccine.
In the United States, H3N2 is also the main strain causing illness, but about one-third of the viruses there were a match for the H3N2 component of the vaccine.
The Canadian study suggests that people who didn’t get a flu shot last year got more protection from this year’s vaccine than those who were vaccinated both years running.
The study is in Eurosurveillance, an online journal published by the European Centre for Disease Control."
This is from the US CDC site as to the effectiveness of the flu shot:
How well the flu vaccine works (or its ability to prevent flu illness) can range widely from season to season. The vaccine's effectiveness also can vary depending on who is being vaccinated.
At least two factors play an important role in determining the likelihood that flu vaccine will protect a person from flu illness:
1) characteristics of the person being vaccinated (such as their age and health), and
2) the similarity or "match" between the flu viruses the flu vaccine is designed to protect against and the flu viruses spreading in the community.
During years when the flu vaccine is not well matched to circulating viruses, it's possible that no benefit from flu vaccination may be observed. ----------------
So it's all a gamble or maybe "an educated guess". Meanwhile you are subjecting your body to a shot containing harmful ingredients possibly for nothing. Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
We all had the measles when I was a kid. No big deal. Wonder what they'll want to inject us with next. I've known too many people who got a flu vaccination and, shortly after, got the flu.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
My hospital job told me I needed a measles mumps and rubella booster when I started working there.
I ended up getting ITP shortly thereafter and horrible lyme symptoms but I didn't figure out it was lyme for a long time.
ITP is just an name for an unknown cause for low chronically low platelets. They think it's autoimmune.
The MMR vaccine can cause it though. It's shown to cause itp with statistical significance in babies.
And they're the only major population treated with the MMR vaccine so I'm sure it's not just restricted to the baby population.
But it's obnoxious that they randomly made me get that stupid vaccine. I was relatively healthy at the time so I was unaware of all the potential dangers and just agreed to it.
Posts: 154 | From Boston | Registered: May 2014
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posted
& I know lyme and coinfections can cause low platelets too but so can that vaccine and I really didn't need to get it.
Posts: 154 | From Boston | Registered: May 2014
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They should not be in danger of contracting the infections, so why would you require mine to be vaccinated as well? Doesn't the vaccine produce proper immunity and thus safeguard your children?
No, vaccines are not 100% effective. Say 1,000 people get MMR, 3% will not achieve proper immunity, so that is ~30 people. If vaccination rates dip below 90%, then you have a 13% rate not protected. Most adults do not check titers or often miss boosters, dropping the rate of protection more. Vaccination works at the group level, not always the individual level.
There ARE individuals who do have strong and permanently debilitating reactions to vaccinations (mitochondrial/metabolic). These conditions are rare. It is between you and your physician whether or not your illness falls under this category. Lyme might be one of these illnesses, but obviously we are decades behind in research.
I do not believe a healthy person should be 'forced' to get a vaccine. But I am not against vaccine requirements set up at by individual day care institutions, public or private schools, camps, etc. I could not travel to Ecuador without a yellow fever vaccine. So yes, institutions and governments CAN set up laws in regards to public health.
Parents have a right to know that their children are safe from the un-vaccinated (those without medical exemptions) just as parents have the "right" to opt out.
quote:She was diagnosed at age 10 with congenital lyme/bart. How was I to know her immune system was compromised when I allowed the vaccination? I had no way of knowing.
So, what you are saying is, you have no way of knowing the cause. It could have been coincidence, it could have been the congenital Lyme unrelated to vaccination, it could have been the antigen exposure from the vaccine, exacerbating the preexisting condition.
I don't have the answer, but what you need to watch out for is confirmation bias. Seeking out evidence to confirm the idea, often leading to rationalizations that may or may not be true. IE autism regression happens around the same developmental time as the MMR vaccine is given
As a Lyme sufferer, I am careful about exposure. I am now allergic to all furred animals, molds, pollens, etc. So I opt out of flu shots and others. But I WOULD still get MMR, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis if I needed it.
quote:Originally posted by beaches: I really wonder why some people are here. #agendas
Right beaches, because you are the only one allowed to have an opinion. Everyone who suffers from Lyme must conform to YOUR viewpoint. Way to be rude. #whatsyouragenda?
For the record, my agenda is science literacy. And creating arguments based on scientific evidence, not some mommy wellness blog pulling conspiracy theories off the world wide web.
As Lyme sufferers, most of us have had encounters with medical professionals that cause some level of mistrust for doctors and scientists. So I see the parallels to the anti-vaccination movement.
But that movement itself is anti-establishment driven. Anti vaxxers think there is a mysterious medical conspiracy to push vaccines and that they're part of the small group who really "sees" the truth.
So there is no way to have a rational discussion with people who feel that way. I don't believe for a second that my pediatrician was part of some conspiracy pushing dangerous vaccines on me for Big Pharma's bottom line.
Why? Because vaccines overwhelmingly work and absolutely reduced and eradicated many childhood diseases that caused a lot of harm. That doesn't mean there are not risks. But I don't believe doctors are nefarious and would willingly inject poisons into children. Their data shows that it's safe. Until it's proved otherwise, they will promote them.
I believe in alternative therapy wholeheartedly, but not the underlining assumption that getting sick is your fault and you can prevent it in ALL cases.
I find that many people eschew vaccines are highly educated and wealthy. They honestly don't think their children will be exposed, or if so, it will be a big deal. They may believe that their kombucha, and probiotics, colonic cleanses and weekly adjustments at the chiropractors will keep their immune systems so healthy that they will just fight off measles and whopping cough.
And it may be, that we need to see a return of these diseases before people get it. Which is unfortunate because, we COULD eradicate many more like smallpox.
That being said, I do think there are many unnecessary vaccines. I think the flu shot is B.S. and it doesn't work well. But Whopping cough? My best friend got it as an adult, broke 1 rib and has had asthma ever since. Just because a disease doesn't kill you doesn't mean it's healthy to get.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote: Originally posted by Looking: Dr. Wakefield and his co-author Dr. Walker-Smith have NOT been proven frauds.
Dr. Wakefield's paper has been retracted. The court charges were not on the validity of their scientific findings, but on whether or not Walker-Smith thought he was doing research or actually treating autistic children using clinically appropriate interventions.
Justice John Mitting acknowledged that what Walker-Smith did *could* be reasonably viewed as research, but exonerated him because it could also be viewed as therapeutic.
Therefore, he is restored to the medical register, but the paper itself is still retracted. Wakefield never appealed. I wonder what his chances of appeal were considering:
*failure to disclose financial compensation from a lawyer representing families claiming MMR cause their children’s autism, *failure to disclose financial interests in patents for MMR alternatives *failure to include data which contradicted his conclusions *use of contaminated samples to support his conclusions.
Reminds me of the ISDA Lyme guidelines conflicts.
Even if we ignore all of that, a big part of science is replicating data. His data was never replicated. But there have been case controlled studies on the lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children.
quote: However, the reporter, Brian Deer who is connected to GlaxoSmithKline
In what way? He was also involved in the withdrawal of the painkiller Vioxx, and the removal of Bactrim/septrim from the UK market (brand name Septra under GlaxoSmithKline). I'd hardly call him a big pharma hack.
quote:I don't believe that the pharma companies would pay vaccine damage money if they had the proof that their product was not responsible for damaging people.
Well obviously not, given that no two immune systems are the same. Seat belts and airbags can cause chest and abdominal injuries. Like vaccines, most injuries are minor, but in certain circumstances severe and fatal injuries have resulted. Overall they have significantly reduce mortality in car accidents. Same with vaccines.
quote: Dr. Wakefield's enemies love to say his research could not be replicated; well it has, several times now. Here's just the latest.
Dr. Wakefiled has several papers that are peer-reviewed and still valid. I am not sure what the paper you posted has to do with vaccines or MMR. Autistic children do have GI issues and Wakefield did study that. The other research you posted on flu shots and narcolepsy, has nothing to do with MMR and autism either (which is the whole reason people are not vaccinating, flu shots are entirely different subject).
quote:Regardless of this issue, Pharmaceutical companies will always try to downplay the damage they have done
You'd have to specific on "damage." Which vaccine, which injury, etc.
If over 1,000 people died from polio before vaccination and 25-30% got post polio syndrome, then to zero deaths after, then as long as the injury from the vaccine was low, then its still positive.
I think everyone can agree vaccines have risks. Some more than others. If the risk outweighs the benefit, they should be pulled. I do agree that big pharma will be reluctant to do so. But I haven't seen evidence the MMR or Tdap are particularly dangerous.
I would be interested in data on that, definitely.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
Confirmation bias works in both directions.
I have experienced the negative impacts of vaccination on our daughter, which our doctor put down to "coincidence". Running a high fever within 24 hours and significant loss of function immediately thereafter and continuing for months was not coincidence.
I continued vaccinating on schedule, and she is now fully vaccinated for everything except HPV. I am not an "anti-vaxxer", but am starting to realize that there are significant implications to the now over-blown vaccine schedule that are not being considered by most physicians.
Infection with wild-type measles produces long-term immunity to the infection. Vaccination produces only short term, which is why boosters are needed. If the last booster is given at 8 years of age, how many antibodies will be left by the time the female gives birth to offspring. None. The baby is left defenceless. Adults, in which infection is more problematic, are left defenceless as well.
If the infections are allowed to circulate naturally, there will be periodic re-exposure which boosts circulating immunity in the adult population. This helps decrease re-emergence as shingles, the incidence of which is increasing as well.
Present day science/medicine likes to believe that it is all knowing. But is it really? At every point in history, the prevailing beliefs have been held as "truths", but during the evolution of understanding have been proven incorrect or incomplete. Gaining knowledge is an evolution of theory. It is not an absolute "right" or "wrong" at any one point in time.
Truth is only a widely held set of beliefs. At one point "the world is flat" was a truth, "illness is caused by evil spirits" was a truth. Naysayers were ridiculed and persecuted.
If you believe science has reached a pinnacle of understanding that is your belief only. "Science is a process of inquiry that constantly questions itself, refines itself, and reaches new understanding. Science is never fixed and unilateral. Something unquestionable and that cannot be challenged is called dogma, not "science."
Open your mind just a little. Chronic lyme and vaccine damage are not widely accepted. This doesn't mean they don't exist, only that they are not recognized by mainstream medicine or reported by the media. People will not consider the possibility of an alternative paradigm until they are forced to, by way of infection or adverse reaction. You, at least recognize lyme.
Although they like to contend that research is unbiased, it seems unlikely that the pharmaceutical companies will support studies that prove vaccination to be ineffective or even harmful. There is no incentive to generate studies that produce no funding, so if you require solid research to back up an alternative paradigm, you won't likely find it.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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quote:Originally posted by rowingmom: there are significant implications to the now over-blown vaccine schedule that are not being considered by most physicians.
That is exactly why VAERS reporting happens, its passive so any negative reaction to vaccination is reported, even if the doctor thinks it's coincidence or determined non-related. And they do continuously study this data.
I'm not opposed to the idea that our vaccine schedule is a bit intense. But a lot of these vaccines are well studied, in animals and in case controlled studies. It's possible some of the right questions haven't been asked yet, but it would be a very low percentage of the population that would be a concern. With proper vaccination, you can eradicate the disease and remove the vaccine from the schedule (like polio and smallpox).
quote:Infection with wild-type measles produces long-term immunity to the infection. Vaccination produces only short term, which is why boosters are needed.
I'd rather get a booster later in life, then get the measles. My great aunt is deaf from the measles. My mother got it and her mother made her sit in a dark room for days so she "wouldn't go blind." Measles isn't the common cold. It has serious complications even in the developed world. Certain vaccinations do produce lifelong immunity, Rubella is one of those.
Also, there is no such thing as 'natural immunity." Its called, getting the disease.
quote:The baby is left defenseless. Adults, in which infection is more problematic, are left defenseless as well.
Which is a moot point if we have eradicated the disease. The baby is only defenseless if people allow the measles to come back into the country. Adults are only defenseless if vaccination levels drop below 90%.
What you are saying is, a child should get measles, so 30 years down the road, their child could receive temporary maternal antibodies and cross fingers that they don't get exposed till they are a bit older and risk complications? Really??
quote:If the infections are allowed to circulate naturally, there will be periodic re-exposure which boosts circulating immunity in the adult population.
Why would we want polio, smallpox, measles, mumps and whopping cough to circulate naturally? Is this the plan? UGH. SERIOUSLY???I can't think of a reason why ANYONE would want this. The WHO has a goal of eradicating measles by 2020. Polio is almost gone, only in Afghanistan, Nigeria, and Pakistan and the horn of Africa.
quote:This helps decrease re-emergence as shingles, the incidence of which is increasing as well.
I got shingles BECAUSE I had chicken pox. Not because of a vaccine wearing off (didn't exist when i was kid). The vaccine is preferable to me than the nerve pain I received from shingles. Immunity to chicken pox lasts at least 20 years and is expected to be lifelong at this point, so it's up to a parent if they want their child exposed or not, but booster shots would be likely unnecessary.Which is why that fear is not rational.
quote: Open your mind just a little. Chronic lyme and vaccine damage are not widely accepted.
So, are you inferring that the MMR vaccine cases damage? The only reason people think that is Dr Wakefield fraudulent study (and they reinforce that belief by believing he is 'persecuted.").
I believe vaccines come with risks. Just in the same way that wearing a seat belt or driving a car with an airbag does. 99% of the time, it saves your life. I am supportive of eradicating debilitating childhood illness that has the potential to cause death or complications.
posted
Since this post is about measles, do a lot of people here honestly believe in the Autism/MMR link?
If someone here is so supportive of Dr Wakefield, where are the peer-reviewed studies that confirms his hypothesis? Why are there so many studies that disprove the link? Why is everyone silent when they are asked to come up with evidence? Calling me a troll is a pretty lame cop-out.
Autism rates have gone up since they MMR vaccines has changed, not down. Even if vaccines caused problems in <0.1% of children, I am more concerned with toxins and chemicals.
1 in 5 children has a neurodevelopmental disability these days like speech delays, autism, ADHD. Pregnant woman and children are exposed to neurotoxants such as pesticides, PBDEs, PCBs, PFOAs, PAH, phalates, even food additives.
Instead of fingering the most obvious culprit, we are distracted by the LEAST likely culprit. I think that any vaccine 'damage' PALES in comparison to our environmental exposures. And you can test for this chemicals in our bodies and read numerous lab animal studies showing damage.
You have mothers absolutely in a conniption over 'toxins in the vaccines.' Well, take Formaldehyde, you get 10-20mg of formaldehyde from things like apples. A child likely has over 500μg of formaldehyde circulating in their blood naturally, whereas something like HepB vaccine has 7.5ug/dose and DtaP only 1007ug/dose.
There seems to be a cultural disconnect going on. Maybe its easier to blame vaccines for EVERYTHING then change our behaviors and how we treat our environment.I suggest these articles:
quote: Truth is only a widely held set of beliefs. At one point "the world is flat" was a truth, "illness is caused by evil spirits" was a truth. Naysayers were ridiculed and persecuted.
Chemicals in our vaccines, how about the great threat of chemicals in the environment? The "world is flat" was not based on science, neither was illness being caused by evil spirits. Those topics have more in common with "vaccines caused my child's autism" but I have nothing that proves this, than what you are suggesting.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
The FACT of the matter is that these diseases were in significant decline before vaccines were introduced en mass.
Notice Andrew Weil's statement at the bottom.
The LYMErix vaccine is a good analogy of why vaccinations are developed and strongly pushed. And of what can and does happen as a result. It seems like the main push for the development and introduction of LYMErix was for profits. And, it was admittedly pulled for that reason.
I will agree that perhaps in some cases there is immunological protection from diseases (such as rabies and tetanus). The current measles outbreak would suggest otherwise since it is those who have been vaccinated that are catching it.
But the overarching motive and design for vaccines is profit. And that always trumps what should be the ultimate concern....the good & safety of patients. And, unfortunately, it tends to cover up the real inherent dangers and risks of vaccines and their ingredients.
As for environmental toxins, nobody is mandating that people have to eat chemically-laced foods. Everyone has a choice to eat organic if they so desire. And the foods and dermatological toxins encounter the immune and elimination systems before getting introduced into the blood stream.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
http://www.cogforlife.org/autism/ This is a good site that has some research on vaccines, aborted fetal cells, and autism for those interested.
There is also a link to Dr. THERESA DEISHER. She is developing clean vaccines for those parents that are interested. “Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute, (SCPI) is the only non-profit biomedical institute I can think of that does not use embryonic cell lines, fetal tissue, or any other illicit materials in their research,” noted Fr. Tad Pacholczyk of the National Catholic Bioethics Center.
Founded by world renowned adult stem cell scientist Dr. Theresa Deisher, the organization’s mission is “dedicated to providing scientific research, education and resources to encourage safe, moral, pro-life medicines and therapeutics”. The organization is also investigating the health consequences of aborted human DNA and cellular contaminants in medicines.
And that includes the “hot button” issue of childhood vaccines. According to their website, www.soundchoice.org, 90% of children vaccinated in the last 10 years were most likely injected with aborted fetal DNA components. More ominously, these fetal DNA contaminants could lead to serious health consequences and may be contributing to the rise in childhood leukemia, autism and other autoimmune disorders.
“SCPI has done the research to show it”, stated Dr Deisher. “We measured the level of fetal DNA in vaccines and are now researching the consequences. Even the FDA has acknowledged the dangers of having fetal DNA contaminants present in our vaccines. Just how dangerous remains to be seen, but it’s unconscionable not to do the research and find out.”
“The equipment and research material needed is very costly,” says Vinnedge. “But not nearly as costly as it would be to society and to families affected by autism if they can’t continue their research due to lack of funds”.
Judie Brown, President of American Life League, a group that exposes the morally objectionable research done by some of the nation’s largest medical research charities, agrees. “We frequently get inquiries from pro-life donors about this or that medical research organization, including some of the largest and most popular charities in the country. Donors become disillusioned as they learn that aborted fetal or embryonic cell lines are used by their favorite charity for medical research. But not anymore thanks to SCPI.”
Brown sums it up this way: “If you support Sound Choice Pharmaceutical Institute, you will be supporting a charity worthy of your donations. They are doing fantastic work.”
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: The FACT of the matter is that these diseases were in significant decline before vaccines were introduced en mass.
There is no doubt medicine was improving. More importantly, supportive care was improving. I could spend days on the intellectual dishonesty of what you are linking in those graphs, but suffice it to say, the best way to look at it is to study disease incidence, not deaths:
The trick in the source you are using is to show abridged graphs selected to begin at one of the cyclical low points of incidence of a disease to attempt to demonstrate that the disease was on the way out before vaccination.
quote:I will agree that perhaps in some cases there is immunological protection from diseases (such as rabies and tetanus).
Is there a reason you are only including those two? Should we catch whopping cough, mumps, rubella? Are you only including death in your metrics, as in, you don't care about complications? What about vaccines for HIV/Aids, malaria, etc.
quote:The current measles outbreak would suggest otherwise since it is those who have been vaccinated that are catching it.
Have you read the news? The outbreak occurred from an unvaccinated international traveler. A woman in her 20s took two plane trips and spread it to Seattle. An unvaccinated man from Colorado picked up measles there and spread it. 3% of the vaccinated don't develop immunity, so yes, vaccinated individuals can pick it up.
Claiming it is being spread by vaccinated individuals is a straight out fabrication. What is your source on that?
quote:But the overarching motive and design for vaccines is profit.
That's a bit a a reach. Are you saying that a company that spends money on R&D to create a product, should give it away for free?
Vaccines in general have a lower net profit than other pharmaceuticals. You know whats more profitable? Letting people get sick and charging for supplies, drugs, treatments for secondary infections and hospitalizations.
quote:it tends to cover up the real inherent dangers and risks of vaccines and their ingredients.
What risks? Examples? Which specific vaccines are you referring to? What ingredients? This is a very vague statement.
quote:As for environmental toxins, nobody is mandating that people have to eat chemically-laced foods. Everyone has a choice to eat organic
WOW. Just WOW. You do know that pesticides and industrial chemicals are ubiquitous? That our furniture contains it? Our rugs? Our water?
Also, poor people barely have access to fresh vegetables, let alone organic ones. Google "food desert" to see what I mean.
quote:foods and dermatological toxins encounter the immune and elimination systems before getting introduced into the blood stream.
What on Earth are you talking about?
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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