quote:Originally posted by mati: Here is what Cutler says
"Chlorella--Andy: "While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask around. Chlorella is simply another "sulfur food." It is very harmful to people who are high in sulfur."
"Dr. Klinghardt, is the one that popularized DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, the first and second most dangerous mercury treatment protocols. Now he is on to chlorella, which is also very dangerous. I know several people who took it per his protocol and suffered permanent neurological damage as a result."
Well, there's a good quote is a good example of why I don't trust Cutler. He's: a)making an extreme claim about several relatively well-known, standard treatments (DMPS and DMSA are well studied by the conventional medical community as well as the alt-med folks like Klinghardt) and all he uses to back up his claim is 'it's obvious- just ask around'. No studies, no clinical observations, nothing other than hearsay. b)As Brussels says above, everything in mercury treatment is not standardizable. Some people respond differently to different treatments than others do. c)chelation is somewhat risky. I'm guessing that every way you could possibly do it is going to give you some small percentage of people who are injured by the process. Metals toxicity is thought to interact with a lot of other health conditions, such as immune issues, detoxification pathways, and infections, so it's no surprise that the outcome is not always a sure-fire thing. Many people still take the risk. I'm not surprised that a small percentage of Klinghardt's patients, who are usually extraordinarily ill people with very complex conditions, end up with problems that seem to stem from chelation.
While I'm not a major Klinghardt fan, I do think he spends a lot of time researching what he's doing, sees thousands of patients (unlike, oh, say, Cutler and Rosner) and bases his recommendations on observation of the outcomes.
There's a bit of detail to what Cutler is saying that you're missing. Any doctor doing chelation by using large one time doses of DMSA and DMPS is putting their patient at risk. Both are standard drugs and Cutler recommends them. However he recommends using them safely by frequent dosing. Taking a large dose at once and then nothing subsequently leads to a large amount of mercury being knocked loose and redistributed. Cutler is a PhD in chemical engineering so he has the background for this more so than most doctors, since most MD's take a couple chemistry courses in premed and absolutely none in medical school. Some even get away with taking no chemistry whatsoever. Cutler's book explains everything in more detail.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Klinghardt never prescribes a small or large dose of DMPS or DMSA, whichever tests best, without following any of these mobilizing agents (that is all they are -- nothing else) without following them with agents in an effort to prevent redistribution.
Whoever is spreading these "facts" ought to make certain they spread all the facts, so that people get the complete protocol involving heavy metal detoxification. Never have I ever seen him or heard him recommend. over a period of 12 years, these Cutler items as a protocol without fallout coverage.
It is better to know nothing about this, than just fractions of it. You, whoever, is putting this stuff out on the web is doing no one a favor. People become more confused that ever. No doubt about it, it is a very difficile subject that can really damage people if done wrong or incomplete.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I started using Metal Free recently. It was recommended to me by a naturopath. It contains:
per bottleIngredients
Microactivated algae, lactobacillus and bifidus extracts
Peptidylgluconase
Glycine
Ionic sea minerals
Hydrated colloidal silica
Glutathione
Vitamin C
Hyaluronic Acid
Fulvic, Ferulic and Lipoic Acids
Chlorella*
N-acetylcysteine (NAC)
It's pretty expensive, $110/bottle (240 sprays) and all I can tell you so far is that it makes me herx after taking it.
According to him, autism has a heavy metal component, and he's used it to treat autistic children successfully.
Posts: 975 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
I used Metal Free as well for about a year fairly soon after I had my amalgams out in 2000, but didn't do more than one follow-up test, so I have no idea how effective it was.
posted
Brussels. . inspired by your 100 chlorella pills at once, I took 15 this am and have felt better than I have in awhile. I walked the dog after teaching a great yoga class and doing some library work. Usually I can do one of those things, never all three.
Thanks for the inspiration. I might double it tomorrow and see what happens!
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Hey Hey!!! Lucky you, Peacemama, that you are not one of the people that are intolerant to chlorella for real!!
That's what I say when I took chlorella and binders to make my day look normal. Without these binders, I would go down with fatigue, brain fog and total lack of wish to do anything.
With right binders taken in different times of the day, people didn't know I was sick (except for the AMOUNT of pills/ herbs I ingested every hour /every 2 hours...).
Try taking it in different times of the day and see what happens.
I KNOW chlorella works for me (not to all cases, but in many many instances!), no matter what people say. Whatever people publish about chlorella (good or bad), I'm the one that adopted it as food for years now.
As for the subject of metal detox, there will always be controversy. People feel crap and get REAL damage while mobilizing metals in no matter what protocol they do.
Dr. K. uses energetic testing to help people out. There's no fixed protocol per dr. K.
He's got thousands of positive results, even though EVERYONE is learning, including him. He tests every single thing he promotes on himself and as far as I know, he makes his family take all the substances he believes (when they test for them).
We poisoned the planet with all these toxins, nature has not idea how to clean them out. Our bodies are part of nature, we get stuck. Some brains are trying to work it out.
I'm very thankful for whatever research come out of this subject.
Whatever you choose, I would NEVER take anything stronger than chlorella all by myself, as a newbie in metal detox. And certainly, not without energetic tests.
I do it now, but after many years doing chelation. But I still consult with a doctor from times to times (now it's on one year basis...).
I also think that what Gigi is saying is right, about the allergy to heavy metals. I'm on my own treatment for these allergies, and heavy metals keep pouring out (6 times dose of chlorella/ day, microsilica every 2 days, bear garlic, and some other energy treatments to help me have my day looking normal).
If anyone is interested, send me a PM. The treatment is total free of cost (do-it-by yourself), but you do on your own risk. As I say, metals keep pouring out, so you need to bind them with something.
As for the 100 chlorella pills, I took it for about 2-3 days, then went to normal lower doses. If my memory is good, I did that every 1-2 months to get a sort of flush of metals out. But not continuously. Now my average is about 6-8 pills a day (and so is my daughter's average), before our allergy treatment.
We don't have lyme anymore and are both doing that on a preventative basis. During lyme, our daily amount of chlorella was much higher. In times of despair, MSM in powder was even more powerful and fast, even though the taste is bad. ---
As for research on chlorella or any plant WHATSOEVER, no research can be complete and final.
There are several HUNDREDS to several THOUSANDS of different chemical components in a SINGLE plant.
A plant with 1,000 different components can literally combine these in MILLIONS of different ways.
Anyone who thinks s/he is smart enough to understand EACH single plant component AND the interaction between these components in 2, 3, 4, 5, or dozens or hundreds of its components is playing God with us.
Saying that chlorella is simply like sulphur is more than over-simplification.
People think they understand chemisty but I wonder who has ever looked into what are the other thousands of components a plant brings. Of course they ignore them all because they come in minimal amounts. They probably know nothing about homeopathy either, I mean, chemists.
In homeopathy, things that are present in ppm, ppb, parts-per-trilion or even less play a role in healing. In a plant, hundreds to thousands of such components are present in such minute amounts. It's easier to ignore them all and say they work for nothing.
What we need here is humility, nor more people proclaiming to have found THE secret of metal detox and discarding other views. As with lyme, the subject is much too complex for us to have a single answer valid for all the people.
pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
Question--- these chlorella pills--- what's the dose in each pill?
I have powder. How many milligrams per pill?
thanks merci
___Polly Polygonum ---or Nilufar Knotweed
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Wait a minute...Brian might of been a realtor turned lyme book writer? But let's look at some facts....
He's a PERSON, might have been a realtor, that become ill with Lyme & co. He didn't lay down and die. He set out to find answers and research to find answers for himself, as well as thousands of others.
He wrote a book on lyme. He experienced, researched, worked his butt off to write a book about Lyme & Rife. All his & his experienced doc friends, came to certain conclusions about certain therapies. They are entitled to their opinion of their research.
I'm not saying they know better than anyone else including Dr K. But to just post he's just a REALTOR and JUST AN AUTHOR OF SOME LYME BOOKS...
is sad untrue posting on some of yours part.
There I feel better.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I'm a HUGE Andy Cutler fan. I joined the yahoogroup he posts on, autism-mercury, when my son was diagnosed with Asperger's. I followed his chelation protocol even though it was a huge pain -- you have to dose every three hours including during the night. And my son recovered. All the way recovered, no autistic features or symptoms at all.
He makes some money on his books and doing some consulting, but the man spends quite a lot of time answering endless questions on yahoogroups for nothing. He details his chelation protocol for free, none of this needing to buy the book to get the information.
Over years with that group, I found him to be extremely forthcoming with any information he thought could help our kids. He's especially concerned about unsafe chelation protocols that stir up metals and let them settle in the brain.
You could go to other groups using different chelation protocols, and see a rather high percentage were reacting badly and doing worse. On Andy's protocol, a lot of kids recovered or improved dramatically. And the ones who didn't, did not get worse.
Yes, he has a big personality and can talk in exaggeration and extremes. He says in his experience, that's how he gets people to hear him.
As for anyone's qualifications to write or have opinions on health matters -- at this point, I would rather a person have a scientific degree in something other than medicine, like Andy does, because in my experience, the field of medicine has been so poisoned by politics, money, and reactionary policies that there are not many doctors who are able to think critically or even use the scientific method anymore.
My son would have been better off going to a realtor for his health care when he was a baby. A realtor couldn't have done a worse job than his pediatrician did, what with the vaccines and the endless antibiotics and fluoride supplements and telling me he was faking stomach aches for attention.
Posts: 5 | From Charlottesville, VA | Registered: Nov 2008
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
My acupuncturist was of the opinion that DMSA, while effective in chelating heavy metals from teh body, also exposes the body to them in a potentially risky way.
He said that the following product is much safer, it boosts liver glutathione levels while binding with the metals slowly and safely, thus protecting the body from re-exposure to metals during their removal:
It's by Metagenics and the product is called Metallo-Clear. You can buy it at discount at www.iherb.com or www.vitacost.com
CAUTION! I would never suggest anybody does a heavy metal cleanse who has:
posted
Gigi (or anyone else who feels they are informed on the topic)...
Allergie-Immune, if I'm looking at the correct website seems to offer what appears to be personalized homeopathy and speaks of "energetic issues" in your body's reaction to substances, excreting metals or whatnot.
Is there any way corroborated by scientifically tested methodology to test these hypotheses, that there are actually "energetic problems in the DNA" or whatnot? I see a 90 Euro diagnostic and 450 Euro treatment protocol and nothing to really prove they're doing anything but sending you some vitamin C in a vial. They even have an extensive legal disclaimer that shields them if their treatment isn't effective. I though Germany had better laws regarding the validity of "alternative" medicine and thus are held to the same standard as other practitioners.
For instance, have there been documented occasions where someone with the kind of allergic reaction that causes anaphalaxis gets treated with their protocol and then can eat shellfish or peanuts again since their "DNA's energy is fixed"? After all, if they can fix these insidious "hard to find" allergies then the big glaring ones should be easy, right?
If its all people with chronic illnesses that may or may not feel a little better after the the expensive treatment, it calls into question the validity of the therapy and relegates it to placebo effect. Heck, has anyone ever come back negative after the diagnostic?
I'm not saying this simply to cast doubt because if the supposition that people who can't excrete toxins and metals are simply because of a fixable dysfunction, that's great and deserves to be proven and applied frequently to those with such issues.
Posts: 691 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
Would be interesting to hear if anyone has used the AI for the anaphalxis type allergy. By the way, I have heard that NAET has been successful with that. I don't know anyone personally, this is just what the NAET practitioner I was using some time ago told me.
Like so many things, the proof is in the results. For me, it certainly has helped, that is clear. But I don't have any specific evidence to offer, like a broken DNA strand and a fixed one. Perhaps AI has something, who knows.
I don't believe much in "the big studies", with law of large numbers and all this, you can prove a variety of things. There are always too many variables that draw conclusions into doubt. The only real studies I believe in are case studies--this person had this situation, they did this, and then that happened.
If I can interject one more point of confusion regarding the chlorella, for your amusement canefan, if you will ... I know, as of about 5 years ago, most chlorella on the market was highly contaminated with mercury. I was a first-hand witness to many tests of a variety of food substances, regarding how much mercury was in them. I have seen that almost all foods have some mercury in them, but that some substances--such as chlorella--have extremely high levels.
What this tells me is that it confirms chlorella's ability to chelate heavy metals from its environment--at least where it grows. Again, this is not necessarily the same as doing it inside a live person, as foggyfroggy points out.
I wish I had access to that testing now. I've been taking modest amounts of the BioPure chlorella (roughly 5 tablets per day), and would love to see how that brand does. (While I use energy testing to decide dosage, I am still curious how much mercury I am consuming.) I did not test the BioPure brand back then, but several popular brands very commonly available in health food stores.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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