posted
jarjar, would you mind telling us what has gotten better since adding mhbot? Thanks Posts: 79 | From Maine | Registered: Sep 2011
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Haley
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posted
Wow CD57, I'm so happy to hear that you are doing this. I have a good feeling about it.
I may experiment soon, but I'm doing other things right now. Hoping my ear problem will get better and then i will try it at a local place that has a chamber.
Please keep up posted.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
CD57 the usual lyme and co-infections..bart, babs and mycoplasma. With my MOPA I was hitting several other infections also.
I should add my symptoms are better but I'm only a little over 34 dives or so. I still have a ways to go. I'm more interested in where I will be in 2 or 3 months from now. Then I will be interested when I have 6 months invested in the treatment.
CD57
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posted
Glad to hear it jarjar. I have fear about growing the bartonella that Phoiph has been helping talk me out of. I'm glad to see others w this infection posting and doing mHBOT.
The bartonella specialist I used to see had a chamber in his office and thought that the physiology of Bart was such that it would be "resistant" to hbot, probably since it is aerobic. But he did not say that it would make it grow. So I am holding on to this and going for it.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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Phoiph
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posted
At the risk of sounding like a broken record...
Bartonella and Babesia are usually not an issue for people who have intact immune systems.
With mHBOT, although it has antimicrobial properties, it is more about strengthening the immune system so it can do its job, rather than just "chasing bugs". It also has the advantage of treating multiple issues in the body simultaneously.
These are just a few of the reasons why mHBOT is effective for so many different conditions...
Posts: 1982 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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CD57
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posted
Phoiph never will you sound like a broken record.....
any idea what mHBOT does against viruses, do we know? My viral titers came back extremely high and LLMD wants to address...
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oxygenbabe
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posted
I think it's unwarranted to say most people with intact immune systems don't have a problem with bartonella or babesia. The latter can cause serious problems in healthy people all on its own, including needing hospitalization. The former has a lot of veterinary research indicating it's a significant pathogen, and under-recognized for its morbidity.
I do think worrying about mild hbot stimulating babesia or bartonella is probably unwarranted though. It's not enough oxygen to do more than change the terrain in most cases.
With more significant treatment (deeper dives, and/or a clinic chamber with 100% oxygen at a high flow rate) you may indeed upset the balance of organisms and get a rebound effect when you stop, because you will have allowed the growth of organisms not vulnerable to oxygen.
[ 04-27-2014, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
My daughter completed her 43rd dive and so far no changes that she notices. She still has insomnia, headaches, brain fog, fatigue and a host of other symptoms.
We're in it for the the long haul so we'll see what the future brings.
She is currently diving 5 days on and 2 days off. After May 8th when she moves back home she will be in the chamber every day.
Someone from Oxyhealth said she should go in the chamber 2 times a day with a minimum of 4 hours in between. He was not specifically speaking about Lyme just in general. Has anyone done that?
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
Here are some quotes from a few research articles that support my statement that "Bartonella and Babesia are usually not an issue for people with intact immune systems."
Regarding Babesia:
"...The babesias are one of the most ubiquitous and widespread blood parasites in the world based on numbers and distribution of species in animals..."
"...Most cases of B. microti infection are mild and usually resolve on their own, without treatment..."
"...The most severe infections occur predominantly in the elderly and in splenectomized or immunocompromised hosts..."
"...Additional factors determining the severity of babesiosis are asplenia and coinfection with other infectious agents..."
"...Coinfection with other tick-transmitted infectious agents can result in more severe manifestations (108). This could be due to an overall immunosuppressive effect that facilitates establishment of infection, or perhaps there is a more specific synergy between organisms that occupy the same transmission cycle..."
"...the Bartonella genus, one of the most common types of bacteria in the world..."
"...infections are usually self-limiting..."
"...The nature and severity of the clinical presentation correlates well with the status of the hosts' immune system. Individuals with impaired immune function, including HIV infection, progress to systemic infections more often. The reduced ability of the hosts immune response to control bacterial infection apparently results in a bacteremia of longer duration..."
Phoiph
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posted
CD-57...
I also had high viral titers, including HHV6, Epstein-Barr, and more (which can become re-activated when the immune system is compromised).
These resolved with mHBOT (I never took anti-virals).
HBOT is also showing promise with HIV by penetrating the lipid coating of the virus...
Posts: 1982 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
ToniL...
I'm glad you are in it for the "long haul"...because, as you know, I didn't have any overt improvement after 43 dives...
I am not in favor of diving 2x per day...it is my opinion that it may upset the balance of free radical production (which is necessary to harm the pathogens), and antioxidant production by the body (that is necessary to protect our own cells from the free radicals).
As Dr. Harch states..."More is better is just an illusion..."
posted
I am glad you reposted this article. I posted here some weeks back. I had mold exposure in past and apparently have the "gene" that does not detox well.
Spent $4500 from HSA for medical and $4600 out of pocket this year. This does not include bills that I have not paid. With the exception of the surgery I had, it was money wasted.
Trying to convince my husband that we could all benefit from a home chamber and that the cost would be worth it.
Really tired of throwing money away and not seeing any benefit.
Phoiph, please pm me what you think the monthly cost of everything for a small decent chamber.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Phoiph, I'm not going to do a battle of citations with you.
Here's a thread on page one of lymenet here, where the doctor himself talks about babesia being immunosuppressive and hard to shake:
One patient was treated for five years and couldn't shake it, finally crytopleptis and Byron White formulas made him feel better.
It's simply careless to make the assumption that bartonella and babesia don't have significant morbidity in some people.
Bartonella is truly under-estimated in human illness. As are ricketssia, if you do a literature review, and look at chronic rickettsial infections worldwide. There's no reason to assume they don't exist here, too.
Veternarians will treat rickettsias for 3-6 months...while humans are treated for a few weeks. Etc.
OTOH, mhbot imho shouldn't cause a significant increase in babesia or bartonella, but what do I know. I know in me, daily was a problem.
Something was stimulated (a bug, I thought yeast. Who knows). OTOH deep dive, did not have that same effect (stimulating a bug).
[ 04-27-2014, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Also, nobody should accept at face value what another patient says, in terms of a therapy.
Take it all with a lot of grains of salt and skepticism.
And be under the care of a good LLMD who isn't overly fond of antibiotics or your money. Be followed while on any treatment, mainstream or alternative.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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posted
Oxygenbabe...
Lyme, Babesia and Bartonella almost killed me. I am not disputing that they are "immunosuppressive and hard to shake". If you read carefully, I never made a "careless assumption" by saying they "don't have significant morbidity in some people". Of course they do.
I was pointing out that in MOST people with healthy immune systems, the infections (Babesia and Bartonella) can be mild and even asymptomatic. (For example, I have read that people can be carriers of Babesia and not be aware of it, and this is one of the ways it gets into the donor blood supply.)
I was not referring to people who likely have immune dysfunction, including those with Lyme or other pre-existing conditions or cofactors, nor do I doubt your statement that these infections may be underreported.
The point of my original post was to suggest the possibility that if/when the immune system becomes healthy and balanced again (in my case with mHBOT), then the immune system may be capable of dealing with these coinfections.
You called my statement "unwarranted", and I provided references.
posted
Hi im writing an update on my daughter. It has been 7 months since we bought the chamber.
The first month was brutal. The pain increased and it was hard. She wanted to tough it out so she kept going.
The changes over time have been very positive. When shes in the chamber her pain is usually gone and her energy increases. She gets out in a good mood due to feeling better.
In the beginning of the treatments her pain has become extreme at times requiring morphine.Now her pain is 70 percent better. It has been two steps forwarded 1-4 back but now her recovery has started to look better.
Her memory is still somewhat impaired and she has fatigue but is much better overall. We can laugh together and have long conversations. We all have hope. ♡
CD57
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posted
That is wonderful Jane! Please keep Us updated.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Phoiph, lyme can also be asymptomatic. Many test positive to borrelia all over the world and feel well.
It's simply not the case that lyme is the bad infection and the rest of them are usually not problematic.
Often the others, particularly babesia, are extremely problematic. There are people who don't get well until they aggressively treat babesia--and people who treat it and relapse--or who need to be on constant treatment.
There are people I know who have been able to get rid of all their other tickborne infections but are still treating babesia.
And though hyperbaric oxygen is a potent adjunctive treatment, emphasis on it as potentially curative is, in my opinion, mostly overselling it.
Helpful yes. A monotherapy, especially when at mild pressures (1.25 ata), that treats all the tbi?
I don't know *what* you had. Without documentation, they are simply anonymous anecdotes--ones that should be followed up on with one's doctor and independent research.
** edited to remove argumentative comments towards another board member **
[ 04-28-2014, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Please, everyone, remember to break up your posts into a couple lines so everyone can read them - I just broke up lots of posts here.
Also, seems to me that everyone here can testify about treatments and discuss them. Best to bring the best info forward and let people do with it as they wish.
I don't think it's necessary for a big argument between Phoiph and Oxygenbabe here - point is, you can present info here for people to evaluate, but please stop the personal attacks. Terms and Conditions for use of the board ask for no harassment of one another.
If anyone has questions or concerns about this, you can report a post to the mods who evaluate postings according to Lymenet rules.
[ 04-28-2014, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posts: 13155 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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CD57
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posted
Thanks Robin for posting this.
Phoiph, don't leave ok? You've started such a groundswell here. Such hard work! We need you!
posted
Jane, thanks so much for posting your update. So glad that your daughter is continuing to improve with mHBOT! I can relate to the rocky beginning.
We're in a holding pattern right now due to some other medication related issues with my son's pain meds, but are still committed to continuing and will update when there is news.
Posts: 688 | From Florida | Registered: Aug 2001
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Marnie
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posted
How does HBOT help out?
"Second, the research showed the way that adding in extra oxygen helped.
This discovery had to do with the normal brain molecule, glutamate, mentioned earlier.
In stroke, this molecule is released in excess in the body's attempt to keep the brain working.
The problem is that extra glutamate acts like a poison to nerve cells and causes damage.
Adding more oxygen helps to convert the excess glutamate into much needed energy for the cells.
A special protective factor called "GOT" (glutamate oxaloacetate transaminase)
***facilitates the conversion of glutamate into fuel for the brain.***
GOT makes the system work even under conditions of lower oxygen so the brain doesn't release too much toxic glutamate and damage the nerve cells."
posted
I have read through this thread and it looks interesting + promising.
Is mhbot approved for children under 3 years of age? I am thinking it might speed up the healing process for my son.
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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CD57
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posted
hopefully Phoiph will stop by to weigh in on this. I do know that the man who helped me with my chamber was having young folks use it, including his very young son.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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oxygenbabe
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posted
A qualified doctor should weigh in on a toddler using mhbot...and the toddler should be under that doctor's care and be followed and monitored closely. Especially since the neurological system is still developing at that age, and nobody has studied what repeated exposure to oxygen even at mild pressures, might do, on a longer term basis.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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posted
Hi yanivnaced...
My neurologist friend routinely treats young children and babies with mild hyperbaric, as does her colleague, Dr. Paul Harch (see "The Oxygen Revolution").
mHBOT has been successfully used with children with birth injuries, Cerebral Palsy, Autism, etc., and there are many research articles available.
There is a great network/website for parents, called "MUMS" (Mothers Unified in Moral Support) that discusses how mHBOT has helped their children with different conditions:
If you'd like to share what your son is recovering from and the area of the country you're in (PM is fine), I can ask my neuro friend if it is something potentially treatable with mHBOT, and if she recommends someone in your area for an evaluation for your son...
Posts: 1982 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
pho - thanks for the PM. I tried to reply but your box is full.
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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springshowers
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posted
Phoiph. I tried to reply to your pm about cold laser and your mailbox was full. Are you looking into cold laser ?
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Phoiph
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posted
Sorry...please try again!
springshowers...someone had asked me about cold laser, and I was going to point them to your thread, but it was gone...
Posts: 1982 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Up. How is it going with those who are diving? Please continue to post updates. I am still watching.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Looking into and seriously considering getting a mhbot machine and concentrator into my home.
Nervous about my most severe symptom which is extremely severe brain swelling. It is mainly the reason I am purchasing. If it can help and even if I have to do it every day for the rest of my life it'll be worth it. I am currently on abx, both IV and oral with no real change in this symptom.
Hoping someone will weigh in on if it initially made it worse or had any effect at all.
Thank you all so much for this thread.
Posts: 219 | From pacific nw | Registered: Jun 2009
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Phoiph
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posted
Hi joahsark...
I had brain inflammation/encephalopathy to the point that I was non-functional, and didn't think I would ever make it back, mentally or physically...
Here's a link where you can download a PDF (see icon at bottom of page) which illustrates before and after mHBOT SPECT scans of people with various brain conditions:
posted
Just a quick update for you guys and gals here. I continue to make progress, and I'm now back in the gym working out!
I'm gaining my weight back 'In A Good Way", gaining around 10lbs of quality muscle! Those who have known me for years say both my skin color and complexion look back to normal " I Would Have To Agree"(-:
I continue to dive without supplemental oxygen.....just utilizing the chamber and that's it. i do various breathing exercises while in the chamber and also watch movies on my Kindle Fire HD.
I'm still following for the most part a roughly 80% Paleo based diet. I drink 1 to 2 42.5 FL OZ of mineral water daily which I purchase at the $1.00 store.
I wake up much earlier these days and feel like I have both the energy and stamina to get things done like a "Normal Person" should.
With the aforementioned being said I still believe I can improve even more! This is most certainly a "Two Steps Forward One Step Backwards" process with the healing coming in "Waves".
I have found it beneficial to decompress in the chamber SLOWLY (IE) around 10 minutes....however I think this is the norm?
I feel like my mind is "Really Clear", and now would be a fantastic time to take the "Cognitive Tests", I had previously taken only months ago.
The amazing thing is I had completed only "Nine Dives", before taking the Cognitive tests yet still performed really well in certain categories. Without the "Nine Dives", I'm 100% positive the scores would have been radically different.
If any of you have any questions please feel free to PM me or just post on this forum. I encourage each and every one of you to "Keep Up The Hope", and pray you all find the answers you deserve!
Posts: 50 | From San Diego | Registered: Jan 2014
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posted
I would be very careful about mineral water as some indication depletes bone calcium. Wife drank for years the has very serious osteoporosis.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
@Jcarl I was told to drink mineral water, however maybe I won't drink so much....sorry to hear about your wife.
On a sidenote I increased my training volume today in the gym by 50% and felt like I could have continued training! I trained for roughly one hour and did both allot of stretching, and self myofacial release in between sets.
My reasoning behind the self myofacial release is twofold. The first part consisting of me breaking up scar tissue which grew worse over the years the more sedintatary I became.
Last but not least the second benefit of self myofacial release is it help stimulate the GREAT lymphatic system.
Between the healing benefits associated with the chamber, and my continued use of "The Stick", which I use when doing self myofacial release I feel my recovery ability is greatly enhanced.
Posts: 50 | From San Diego | Registered: Jan 2014
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CD57
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posted
Hope, what happens when you use the supplemental oxygen? Are you still getting herxes without it, or just improvement?
Your testimonial is interesting because not only does it go to show that mHBOT is effective but also that the supplemental oxygen may not even be necessary for some....just the pressure....
Your case really must be unusual. But congrats!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Hey CD, I still herx if I overdo it (IE) I still can't tolerate 50 minutes everyday. So I do 50 minuts one day then 30 minutes the following day. I'm still not using O2...just relying on the chamber.
I really seem to get different results every time I dive! Sometimes it gives me allot of energy while other times it tires me out.
Posts: 50 | From San Diego | Registered: Jan 2014
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CD57
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posted
I have had to break it down a bit, ie have not been able to jump right in with diving with supplemental oxygen for an hour. I have had some pretty intense flares of psych symptoms that were not tolerable. So weird! So I am doing just the o2 concentrator or just pressure in the chamber but not the combo.
posted
With ambient air temps increasing the chamber becomes unbearably hot and my daughter can't stay in it. Any suggestions?
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
Toni L...
1. Make sure the oxygen concentrator and the compressor are separated by at least several feet; each generate heat, and that heat is sucked up by each machine and sent into the chamber.
2. Have a fan blowing near the oxygen concentrator and compressor to circulate the warm air away from them.
3. Take a block of "blue ice" inside a zip lock bag and wrapped in a thin towel inside the chamber and lay it on your chest.
4. Coolers are available for the chamber...they consist of a modified water cooler filled with ice, inside which the tubing that runs from the compressor to the chamber is coiled. As the air passes through the tubing (which is immersed in ice), it is cooled before entering the chamber.
These coolers are expensive for what they consist of, but you can also buy the parts and make your own...
posted
We have purchased a window a.c. unit to supplement cooling, and hope to get it in today or tomorrow. We're in Florida, and the room with the chamber was added on to the house and doesn't get sufficient a.c.
Hoping that by cooling the room down substantially before sessions, that will do the trick.
Update--my son has been having some new health problems that have slowed down his mHBOT usage--gallbladder issues and possible infection. So, we're still in the early stages of figuring out what is going to work and getting up to speed.
Will let you all know how it goes.
Posts: 688 | From Florida | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I could immerse the coiled tubing in an ice bath to cool the air going into the chamber. Anyone see a problem with that?
Posts: 20 | From Longmont, CO | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Toni, maybe sealed ice packs would be better then water baths around electrical equipment?
Posts: 372 | From british columbia | Registered: Feb 2012
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Phoiph
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posted
Toni L...
The issue with submersing the coiled tubing in ice water is that it will collect condensation inside the tubing...
The commercial coolers have a condensation trap to collect moisture, but even so, the cooler and tubing has to be dried out between uses, or mold could potentially form.
The tubing can be dried by blowing air though it with the compressor while it is not attached to the chamber. You could do this also, but it wouldn't prevent moisture from condensation gathering and being blown into the chamber during use, since you wouldn't have the condensation trap to catch it.
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