Topic: Vitamin C/Salt Who is doing it and What do you know.?
DebAz
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posted
Who is doing the protocol right now>> Would like to know how you started and if you started out slow or just jumped it? With or without ABX. > ??
Lymeorsomething
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posted
I'm about to try this too as it is really easy to pull off, but I too am curious to know if it really helped anyone...
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seekhelp
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I have hypertension. I wouldn't touch that protocol with a 10 ft pole.
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DebAz
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posted
I actually started today.. And it is an interesting feeling already how you feel when you drink the salt. It feels as if it is needed and it is changing the chemistry inside of me.. So we will see how it goes.. It can not hurt as far as I know... I am doing it
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Lymeorsomething
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seek, i hear ya. my pressure has been low normal with lyme and pulse somewhat low so i feel i may be able to pull it off with moderate doses...
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glm1111
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I have been on salt/c for a little over 2 yrs and it has helped me tremendously. I have gotten rid of 80-90 % of my infections.
Very powerful because it puts the parasites into osmotic shock. Salt is a natural bacteriocide.
I use sea salt not the tablets. I think the key for me was to start this slowly and not race. I ALSO DRINK A LOT OF WATER.
Both vitc and sea salt are water soluble. I am very careful when I start a new protocol.
You can always increase doses of anything when appropriate.
The people on LYMESTRATEGIES are the people with Lyme who are doing the salt/ c along with other modalities such as antibiotics and other alternatives.
Their motto is PACE NOT RACE.
Some people are salt sensitive and can have b/p issues. Always check with your doctor.
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DebAz
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posted
Hi When you say start slow.. how low of dosages did you start. As well from what i read you are not supposed to use sea salt or things that have any impurities or additives,,,, below is example of what I read. is this something you knew and just felt it worked ok.?? I am glad to hear someone who has success.
Sea salt, as well as ordinary table salt , also contains other compounds and we think it is the sodium chloride itself which does the trick. Our fear is that some salts contain multiple elements and these additions may compromise the treatment. The added elements could aid the parasites in their survival.
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DebAz
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Thanks for the referance to LymeStragies on Yahoo. Thats a neat group and I think i can learn from them.. THANKS
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disturbedme
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posted
I am curious about this as well.
I have hypotension (very low blood pressure), so I think it could be good in that respect too.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
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glm1111
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posted
Our Bodys need salt(sea) with the minerals, not the harmful table salt.
Vitamin C and Salt are great support for the adrenals.
Deb, your body probably needs the vitc and minerals.
Just remember to go SLOW and not go too fast so your body can assimilate what it needs. (DRINK PLENTY OF WATER)
Good Luck,
Gael
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bejoy
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posted
I used a modified salt C. I was on about 2/3 th salt dose recommended by the protocol. More was too much for me. It helped.
At least one person on this board has posted that she did herself some serious lasting damage from this protocol. Please be very, very careful. To much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
Those with hypotension and low cortisol do need salt. Also, salt helps treatment cross cellular walls. And yes, sea salt or make sure to add minerals if using the plain stuff.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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glm1111
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Deb,
I believe (the parasitologist) who developed the protocol was referring to the minerals in the sea salt as possibly aiding the parasites in their survival.
I just think they can't survive the sodium chloride in the sea salt.
We desperately need the minerals. Taking the pure sodium chloride made me uncomfortable.
A lot of people on lymestrategies are taking the sea salt and they also do other protocols like antibiotics and herbs etc.
I might consider taking antparasitic herbs again, but so far I have die off every day with the sea salt. Eating potassium rich foods is also a good idea.
Everyone has to listen to their bodies and what is going on. Our own intuition is the most valuable tool we have.
Gael
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glm1111
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Deb,
Forgot to add that I started with 1/4 tsp salt and 1/4 tsp of vit c.
You are supposed to always do equal amounts of salt and equal amounts of C.
I started to increase the dose 1/4 tsp at a time.
I don't remember exactly, but i think it was a week or 2 after I started the first dose that i increased it.
You will know what you can tolerate by the herx. Diarrhea is a sign of die off.
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DebAz
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posted
Thanks for all the ideas and support. I will take it slow. I read not to take more than 18grams in a 24 hour time and 15 is normal. I am starting at 8 this first week and then will see.. Then maybe will do 12. Does it matter much if I just did it two times a day or should I make sure to space it out.. I assume I better space it and and do smaller amounts but at the 4 x a day instead of 2 x a day at a little more..?? I will listen to my body and keep an eye on how I react. I did get a note that someone has died on this protocol but i am curious to see more details as to why and if it was exactly related to the C and salt and or other reasons? Anyone else heard of something this dramatic related to this treatment?
posted
Thanks it looks like we are posting at the exact same time. How long were you on this protocol and are you still on it??
I was thiniking long term may not be so great but I do not mind trying for while and aI have read that these buggers cycle and you have to keep going to catch the cycles but i did not see how long those cycles are exactly. I guess I got to keep reading.
1/4 sounds about like what I am starting at... 4x a day... Which is about 8 total a 24 hour period or so
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DebAz
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posted
Ps.. What about using the EmergenC packets for the C and they have minerals and other things in it that will supply what your saying I should make sure I have too.. Thats what I started with.. Lots of nice flavors too..
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glm1111
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I just pmd you. 8 gms IS WAY TOO MUCH TO START WITH.!!!
I only started with 1/4tsp or 1 gm. 1 tsp is 5 gms. Slow Deb, Slow
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DebAz
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posted
Hi.. Oh oh. Ok.. Well if you were taking 1/4 tsp 4 x a day that should be I guess more like 4 grams total .. I will take your advice. If it helps I have started at two times a day and not 4 for the first few days. So that means I am right at that 4grams...But I am going to space it out and do 4 x a day. I was not wanting to to 4 x right away..
I will say I felt last night my kidneys hurt a little. And I have not had that affect since after I had a huge herx on Mepron.
Wanting to be careful for sure.. No worries. I will.I promise.
been reading some past posts and hearing things like
My LLMD did not recommend this for women over 30 b/c of the effect the salt has bone deterioration . And also risks of Kidney Damage and Heart issue and high Blood Pressure. So far that is what I have read and am trying to educate as much as I can..
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glm1111
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Just want to be clear,
I started with 1/4 tsp A DAY (24 hr period)
Not 4x a day) for the 1st week and increased another 1/4 tsp A DAY the second week.
,So I took 1/2 tsp A DAY for the second week and stayed on that for a while.
I AM NOT A DOCTOR> THIS IS WHAT I TOOK. I AM NOT ADVISING ANYONE TO DO ANY OF THIS. JUST SHARING WHAT WORKED FOR ME!!
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DebAz
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posted
Oh. Wow no wonder you freaked. But that is a tiny amount compared to all my reading. And everything I have read says our body will get rid of any extra you do not uses and it says to take it four times a day. I have not really found anywhere it says to work up even which is a logical thing to do .. So I agree.. I will keep reading and of course I will be careful. ...
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glm1111
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The people on Lymestrategies will tell you DEFINITELY to start slow. Their motto is PACE NOT RACE.
I do 4x a day now, but I started at 1x a day for quite a while. Yes salt is water soluble, but you have to drink lots of water.
PLEASE TELL ME YOU"RE DRINKING PLENTY OF WATER. Where did you read to START 4x a day?
Maybe I am wrong, but i am very conservative and I would rather err on the side of caution.
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DebAz
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posted
On this site and a couple other places too... thats why.
From experimenting with the treatment of salt and vitamin C, we settled on a dosage of 3 grams of salt and 3,000 mg of vitamin C, each dose taken 4 times per day.Depending upon one's weight this would approximate one gram for each ten pounds of body weight. We think total daily dosage should not exceed 18 grams of salt or Vitamin C per day, and 15 grams would be the average adult's dosage for a full 24 hour period.
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DebAz
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posted
I will keep in touch on how it goes..
THANKs for all the info and comments and I will be very careful. It seems there are only a select few here that know the details or have done this protocol and I did not realize that it was not more widespread or just an easy going option to try..
I am realizing it is much more complicated and there are many more considerations that one would think
THANKS for alerting me and for pointing me in the right direction. HEAL and BE WELL and Happy Thanksgiving if I am not back here tomorrrow but I think I will be.
glm1111
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posted
Thanks for posting the lymephotos site Deb. Yes I remember reading that now.
I guess I am just very conservative and I have learned to listen to my own intuition.
I just think going slow in the beginning is the wise thing to do. HAPPY THANSGIVING TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE,
Gael
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posted
it has been my savior. on it for 6.5 months and outside of the herxes seeing marked improvement. buy the ebook, worth it. read the old posts, most of the people that have gotten well with salt c are at the beginning of the blog and have moved on with their lives.
i have been reading all the old posts and emailing people to see if they are still well today and beleive it or not, most are doing great. this protocol works.
good luck
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oxygenbabe
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It's dangerous. Do a thorough search on this site and read all the threads in the last few years before you embark on such a risky and unproven therapy.
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Keebler
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posted
-
You said: " . . .It can not hurt as far as I know.." end quote.
Well, actually, it can. Excessive salt can be fatal, in some cases. It can trigger heart attack.
My concern is the possibly for kidney damage. A little boy recently died from salt overdose. He was not a lyme patient, however.
Be sure to read EVERYTHING about this that you can - and not just from the direct sites, either. Read about what the safe dose of salt is for normal - and also for diseased kidneys.
Remember that lyme can attack kidneys. Adrenal/endocrine & cardiac function is altered with lyme and that can affect how our body processes salt.
Don't just "jump into" anything - ever! I see you have done some study - but this requires a lot. Take your time.
You might ask your doctor to run kidney function tests first to be sure you are A-okay in that department.
posted
Hello Everyone.. Wow.. Thank you for the idea and support and concern and warnings. I am listening and reading and researching much more now after reading all this and all you are saying. I is ending up to be much more controversial than I thought that is for sure... HAPPY HOLIDAYS And GOOD HEALTH TO ALL
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Keebler
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posted
-
I'd wait until after the holidays to begin anything different. One "normal" holiday meal can put a strain on anyone's system - especially their heart.
posted
I agree to have my kidney and liver and other functions checked and consult with my doctor. I have had pains in my kidneys and heart / lung area and as well have MVP and Murmur. I am also having urinary symptoms lately that are worsening and after all the feedback and more reading am going to consult with my doctor.
posted
If people are all getting so well on this protocol and they are no longer on the forum wouldnt they come back and let us all know and share the succcess and idea? I did read back some of the earlier posts and did learn new things. If I got better on a treatment or there were numbers of people all getting better,, as in 98 percent as some claim. I would assume they would want to come back to share it all and help others ??? I do not see many posts like that and only since the start of this one some success comments and positive experiences... Deb
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glm1111
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I think the people with success stories are posting at Lymestrategies.
Sammy said he has kept in touch with them to see if they are still well.
I don't think they would want to post here because of all the negative feedback they receive.
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Angelica
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I noticed tonight in another thread you posted you are having kidney pain. Salt can be very hard on the kidneys and I would strongly advise you not to do this protocol if you are having any kidney pain.
Also do you know your blood type? People with type A blood do not do very well on anything but very low doses of Vitamin C in general because it is hard on their sensitive stomachs. Just two more things to take into consideration.
I agree with Oxygenbabe. Salt and C can be very very dangerous. I know at least one LLMD who is dead set against his patients doing Salt and C and he is very open minded about many alternative treatments.
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Hoosiers51
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I have type A blood and I do really well on vitamin C.....who knows, maybe my need for it overrides that issue.
But yes, if you are having kidney pain, i would stop takign the salt/C for now. I would reconsider.....or if you do restart later, start much much much slower. I have heard of one LLMD that believes people still benefit somewhat from 3 or 4 grams of salt/C daily......sort of like a modification of the protocol. I'm sure even that could be dangerous to some though, so please exercise caution!
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Angelica
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posted
Hoosiers51 when I was young I could get away with taking more C then now in my old age. Check out the book Eat Right for your Type. He recommends very little C for anyone with type A blood.
You may be able to get away with taking a lot of C when you are young but that does not mean your body likes it. Has anyone muscle or pulse tested your body for vitamin C?
I use to be able to drink large amounts of orange juice as well. Oranges are on the list of foods for type A blood people to avoid and sure enough if I drink more then a tiny glass of OJ now my stomach will start to hurt.
I am not someone who can drink lemon water for a herx either.
I believe strongly in eating for your blood type. Sure I sometimes eat things I should avoid but on the whole I try to follow the guidelines in the book.
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DebAz
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Hello. I sure appreciate you all paying such close attention to me and even other posts. Yes.. I have decided to stop and get my doctor to check me out ecs due to the kidney pain even though this pain has been there since my mepron treatment. My doc thought the mepron was doing its thing but it is still there and did get worse starting the salt. I have heard all your cautions and jumping in may not have been so easy and simple and that is why I put the post up so it sure worked. I wanted to hear from you all. THANK YOU so much.. As well I am a Type A. How ironic huh... Yes always have had a sensitive stomach and stomach issues but have learned to work around it etc. The modified version of this protocol may be best to try out and as well I will talk to my doc about the kidney issue and the protocol as well. So much appreciation to everyone and this post has gotten much more attention that I thought it would. But it has been a huge learning curve since I posted just two days ago..
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From experimenting with the treatment of salt and vitamin C, we settled on a dosage of 3 grams of salt and 3,000 mg of vitamin C, each dose taken 4 times per day. Depending upon one's weight this would approximate one gram for each ten pounds of body weight. We think total daily dosage should not exceed 18 grams of salt or Vitamin C per day, and 15 grams would be the average adult's dosage for a full 24 hour period."
The dose used in the above statement was the goal to reach after starting very slowly and very gradually ramping up.
I used to be a member on the Lymestrategies site and downloaded the e-book on the protocol.
The e-book and multitudes of postings by Marc use a maximum goal of 12 grams a day as sufficiently effective for most cases.
This ramping up was advised to be done according to the feedback from each individual's body.
Everyone is different. Some people take months or longer to reach that goal, and some had strong enough responses that they can't get higher than a few divided grams a day.
Our daughter had great improvement with just 1 gram a day for a few months. Then she quit.
Some of those on the protocol are using it under the supervision of their practioners, from NDs to LLMDs. That is always advisable.
posted
i had some kidney pain too in the beginning, it was a herx. it passed within a few days and i haven't had it since. good idea to stop the protocol and check with md.
i am 6 months into this protocol and really seeing marked improvements so try and stick with it, if the md advises you too.
my md is amazed at my progress and all my labs etc have been fine.
also, when i was having kidney/ lbp i ran to my md and he checked all my values and everything was normal. in fact, my sodium blood values were below normal, if you can beleive that.
the lymestrategies site is great, read the posts from the WAY beginning. marc gives a lot og great advice and he is amazing. i owe him my life.
i did 11 months of abx and never felt as good as i do now. although everyone is different, and however you chose to get well, i wish you the best.
pm me if you need more advice.
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
Is anyone creating their own salt capsules? If so, is this harder on the body or the same as drinking salt water? The taste of salt water can be a bit tough. I was thinking capsules may be easier to manage as long as you chased them with plenty of water....
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posted
I think its good advice to research things before you jump into them......but that being said....
I dont see the Vit C/ Salt protocol being any more dangerous than taking antibiotics for several months to several years.....And I am not trying to sound glib with that comment.....
Personally......I think that desperate times call for desperate measures.......whether we are talking Ab's or other protocols......Some of us are so sick that there is no down side to risky treatments.....I am not trying to be dramatic, but I am 41 years old and I cant take another 10 years of what I have been thru.......When you have no quality of life, you have nothing....I realize I am only speaking for myself, but others probably feel the same......I dont fear death, I only fear living with this fatigue and pain the rest of my life......I know it sounds morbid, but that is my reality......
The Vit C/ Salt protocol makes sense to me.....Linus Pauling spoke alot about the importance of high doses of Vit C for health and to treat disease......I have always felt he was correct in his hypothesis......The use of salt makes sense too......The high dosage of salt should drastically change the living conditions in your body......This could kill alot of parasites and bacteria/spirochetes in my opinion......Sure, you need to monitor organ function and blood pressure, but it makes sense......at least to me.....We used to pore salt on slugs and worms when I was a kid, and it definitely killed them......just a thought....
Some people say we took in up to 20 grams of salt per day back when we cured our meat without refrigeration......Maybe the lower salt diet promoted since the late 70's has helped to allow things survive in our bodies.....Deer and other animals love "salt licks", my parents use them on the farm.....We get deer from all over that lick that salt for hours......That tells me that it might be natures way of healing or preventing illness.....possibly???? I always look to nature for answers.....
I heard of the boy who supposedly died from overdose of salt.....not sure if he didnt have something else going on....but you can definitely die from salt overdose......Just as you can die from Water overdose......My thought is that if you can kill yourself from too much salt, then you can DEFINITELY kill these dang spirochetes with it......go slow and steady....listen to your body.......
As a sidenote.....I have constantly craved salty foods since my illness......maybe that is my body telling me what I need....Anyone else have salt cravings too???? In fact, when we made home made ice cream as kids, I would eat the rock salt more than the ice cream.....The other kids would make fun of me.....Definitely makes you think.......????
And just to be clear......I am not a proponent of any single treatment......I think everyone is different and will respond in their own way.....I try to be open minded since there is no single cure for everyone.....as with most diseases.....Peace
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
I agree and at 38 in somewhat of the same boat fatigue wise at least. I don't get salt cravings as much a generalized voracious hunger. I don't have diabetes and my thyroid is well-maintained so not sure what the mechanism is. I suspect maybe babs or perhaps a parasite of some kind.
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lymielauren28
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posted
Yes to the salt cravings!! I crave salt constantly and eat it in abundance since becoming ill...I look at it the same way - it's obviously something my body needs.
Lauren
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glm1111
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posted
I totally agree with King. Couldn't have said it better.
I do want to add that one of the first things they do when you go to an E.R. is give you saline.
Hmmmm....I am not so sure that these "Injury and one death case(s) are related to the salt/c protocol if they were done properly.
Could be other things they were taking, other problems they were having that went undetected.
Maybe they didn't drink enough water. Maybe they ingested too much salt. I can only tell you this protocol has saved my life.
I do think people should take sea salt instead of sodium chloride tablets. I think this is a much safer route to take.
I went slow and drank plenty of water. However I also had some kidney pain in the beginning because there was infection there and the salt/c was going after bacteria. (herx)
It's amazing to me with all the side effects and sometimes "Dire" warnings on medicines, whether antibiotics or something else that no one gets upset about that.
Antibiotics have saved my life more than once,
but also really screwed up my immune system and opened me up for more parasites.
If I would have had proper tx and diagnoses I probably wouldn't have needed them.
Does anyone have the details on the boy who suppossedly died from too much salt?
Scaring people away from this protocol is taking away an opportunity for them to possibly get well.
I am not stuck on any one protocol either. I am for whatever works. People should use their own intuition and do the research.
Gael
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Angelica
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posted
I personally after talking to my LLMD think this protocol is dangerous. I would rather have Lyme then die from a dangerous protocol. I may be desperate to get well but not desperate enough to do a protocol that is so dangerous that might kill me.
The canlyme.com forum forbids talking about the salt c protocol for good reason. I am all for alternative treatments just not dangerous ones known to be dangerous.
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posted
Some of us do not process salt properly and actually lose it through our kidneys so naturally we crave it. Low blood pressure can be a sign that someone would benefit from increasing salt intake.
I do not think increased salt is safe for everyone, it depends upon your body chemistry and whether or not your kidneys are impaired.
Even too much water can kill you by upsetting the electrolyte balance in the body. Most any treatment has had adverse reactions in some people, so this is always a consideration.
I think caution in indicated if you try this. I have not done this protocol, but being the low blood pressure type, I do crave salt and at times need it to counteract that "lightheaded" feeling.
Adrenal insufficiency is also a contributing factor.
Glad to know you will be checked by your doctor.
"Salt-eating And Oxidation Types:
Slow and fast oxidizers are determined by the ratios of calcium to potassium and sodium to magnesium. A rule of thumb is those slow oxidizers, who tend toward low blood pressure; can usually safely eat sea salt.
Fast oxidizers who normally have excessively high sodium levels, especially those with a tendency to high blood pressure, should reduce salt and foods high in salt content. from: Common Misconceptions Associated With Salt By Dr. Paul C. Eck and Dr. Larry Wilson"
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glm1111
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posted
Okay, I just found the article about the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the death of the 15 mos. old boy who died of a salt overdose.
Unfortunately his depressed mother MURDERED HIM by giving him more than 3tsps of table salt AT ONE TIME!!
Equal to between 15-20gms of salt. Approx. 5 gms p/tsp.
For a 15 mos old that would probably be equal to double or triple that because of his low body weight.
PLUS the fact that he was born with serious medical problems because he was a preemie.
Now I know why you didn't post this information.
This isn't even in the ballpark of what we are talking about with the salt(sea)/C protocol.
I just don't get your motivation about putting this protocol down that has helped so many.
When done properly, many people are getting well from this not sicker.
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Lets see one good reason to avoid this protocol is my LLMD told me it killed someone and to avoid it because it is dangerous. He was not speaking of this boy you are posting about. That is enough reason for me. Also my kidney does not like salt even though I have low blood pressure often and my stomach hates C.
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Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
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