Topic: Vitamin C/Salt Who is doing it and What do you know.?
DebAz
Unregistered
posted
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SAME SALT HERE>
SO I AM POSTING THIS!!
It seems maybe people are comparing apples to oranges.
When researching salt you have to make sure you take into consideration that fact that Table Salt is not the same as the salt we are using in the protocol of Rich Organic Unrefined Sea Salts.
Just a research note and a very important one that may explain the differences in research results..
Natural Sea Salt such as "Himalayan Crystal Salt" , "Celtic" and other natural alternatives contain no toxins and all 84 minerals and elements necessary for optimal health.
Unrefined salt (sea salt) is 84% sodium chloride and 16% other minerals.
Watch out as much Sea Salt for cooking you buy in grocery stores and Kosher Salts are REFINDED> --Not Unrefined.. See below.
REFINED- TABLE SALT and some Sea Salts for cooking and Kosher Salts are indeed refined.
Most common table salt is made up of chemicals that pollute your body and wreak havoc on your health.
Refined and Table salt is actually 97.5% sodium chloride and 2.5% chemicals such as moisture absorbents, and iodine. Dried at over 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit, the excessive heat alters the natural chemical structure of the salt causing the potential for a myriad of health problems in your body.
Another fact and note
Salt VS Sodium
Although the words salt and sodium are often used interchangeably when it comes to nutrition, they are not the same. Salt is sodium chloride (NaCl) and Sodium (Na) is, well, just sodium -- a soft metal occurring in isolation only on the periodic table of elements or in a lab.
posted
When going to buy your salt.. Remember this as well.
UNREFINED SEA SALT - DESCRIPTION
Unrefined salt is at heart sea salt, but can come from two sources: either freshly dried from the sea, as in Celtic Sea Salt, or mined from ancient inland ocean beds as in Himalayan Salt. In either case, the salt is a naturally occurring complex of sodium chloride, major minerals such as calcium and magnesium, and a complete complement of essential trace minerals. This is the form of salt the body recognizes and is designed to use.
Note: much of the salt labeled "sea salt" is actually refined table salt unless the package is clearly labeled "unrefined." (This is also true for Kosher salt!)
posted
SALT SENSITIVE PEOPLE - INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT!
When we are talking about those who have trouble with this protocol. In all my reading I have read over and over again there is a small population of people who are what are called salt sensitive and are born that way.
This is only 10 percent of the population. So do not worry too much but please read.
Those people need to figure out who they are and those people may be the ones who end up with having trouble here.
I will post what I read and maybe it will help you figure out if you are one of those people. And if so then I would definately take caution as others who have had the same problem were not able to handle this protocol.
READ HERE about how Salt is used and filtered through the body.
Salts important function in the organism is regulating hydration.
Humans excrete salt through their kidneys. But there is only so much salt that can be urinated away, and salt-sensitive individuals excrete less sodium than normal.
If the body can't reduce the salt, the next best way to hit the right level is to increase the amount of water
If you're not drinking enough water, the body finds the extra water it needs by robbing its own cells
Some individuals can't get rid of all salt eaten daily, especially those born with subtle kidney problems that may go undiagnosed. Part of the problem is the chemical attraction between sodium and water.
High levels of sodium in the diet combined with low water consumption leads to hypertension. Every grain of salt that is retained in the body carries with it 20 times its weight in water which increases the amount of fluid in circulation
DRINK LOTS OF WATER is so important like it has been repeated here over and over.. That is true true true.
posted
MORE INFO ON SALT SENSITIVITY AND HOW TO REDUCE IT
From the data I have reviewed and the previous posts it seems there are two populations.
One who is salt sensitive and those need to take much more caution and consideration and this I believe is the group that Oxygen keeps talking about.
SO how do we know if we are one of them? THis is an important thing to know and find out.
WHAT TO DO IF ONE IS SALT-SENSITIVE to HELP REDUCE IT
Everyone should avoid table salt as much as possible. Many salt sensitive people can tolerate some unrefined sea salt. Restaurants can be a problem, as salt is hidden in many dishes. One can ask in some restaurants for low sodium or sodium-free meals.
Eat only natural and unrefined grains and no white sugar. This way one will obtain significantly more magnesium from food, which may help reduce salt sensitivity.
Consider supplementing with magnesium. Quality magnesium supplements include chelates, citrates, glycinates, aspartates and orotates. The latter two contain less magnesium per tablet, though they are well-absorbed.
Taking a magnesium supplement may well reduce salt sensitivity. Magnesium is very safe. Excessive amounts will cause diarrhea. Some physicians give magnesium to bowel tolerance, though I believe this is excessive.
Finally, salt sensitivity may indicate excessive levels of toxic metals or a fast oxidation rate. This can be assessed with a hair mineral analysis. Most people have some toxic metals, regardless of whether they are revealed on tests or not. A nutritional balancing program and infrared sauna therapy are most helpful to remove toxic metals and chemicals that can affect the kidneys, adrenals and pituitary, and contribute to salt sensitivity.
After reading these items I am positive your doctor can tell you if you are one of these populations..
10 percent of the population have this issue.
TESTS
Blood Pressure Monitoring Test
For example, there are some hypertensive patients who are salt sensitive. Salt sensitivity is defined as an increase in blood pressure due to a high sodium intake. Not all hypertensive patients exhibit salt sensitivity. The only way to tell if an individual with hypertension will respond (via lowered blood pressure) to a low-salt diet is to institute a low-salt diet. The research shows that older individuals with hypertension will have a modest response. A review of 56 trials showed that a low-salt diet had minimal effect on blood pressure in the vast majority of people studied.
Kidneys ability to excrete salt test
Another special concern related to those with kidney problems. Salt is excreted in the kidneys and individuals with renal failure will have a decreased ability to clear salt from their diets. These individuals must watch their salt intake carefully. If you have renal failure, I suggest you speak with your doctor before instituting any dietary change, including a change in salt intake.
For the great majority of people a low-salt diet does not work. Patients do not feel well when sodium levels are lowered. Their energy level drops and they develop hormonal and immune system imbalances. It is refined salt that needs to be avoided - it is a toxic, dangerous substance that fails to provide the body with any benefit. Unrefined salt should be the salt of choice.
Looks as if you may be able to have hair tests or tissue tests done as well as a test .. ask your doctor
If you are Salt Sensitive.. The following is true.
Serum sodium usually remains in a narrow range, even when significant pathology is present. The same is not true of tissue mineral analysis. Most people's hair analyses reveal very low levels of sodium. We find this is not related to salt intake, but to the adequacy of the adrenal glands. Aldosterone secreted by the adrenals causes sodium retention.
The mineral pattern characterized by low tissue sodium and potassium is called slow oxidation. These individuals often crave salt and salty foods. Many have a low blood pressure in part due to low sodium, which is related to low blood volume. It is also due to underactivity of the adrenal glands. Adrenal hormones cause constriction of the arteries, which raises blood pressure.
Consuming salt may help raise the sodium level slightly in slow oxidizers, as these individuals are excreting excessive sodium. Consuming sea salt is strongly recommended for these people unless they are salt-sensitive due to other pathology. However, to permanently and significantly raise their tissue sodium, they must improve their adrenal glandular activity.
Slow oxidizers who are eating a magnesium-rich diet may have up to 200 mg of sodium daily with no adverse effects. Some do well on more. This is not a lot compared to that found in a diet of salt-laden refined foods. However, it is certainly not an avoidance of salt.[/i]
Tissue sodium levels may also be extremely elevated. This metabolic pattern is called fast oxidation. It is seen most commonly in children. It is more normal in children. In adults, it is more likely a secondary stress pattern associated with excessive levels of toxic metals affecting the adrenals, kidney or pituitary gland. Excessive sympathetic nervous system activity may also affect the adrenal glands.
The presence of toxic metals, especially cadmium, mercury, lead, arsenic, copper, manganese, iron or aluminum will raise the hair sodium level. This is due to a toxic effect on the kidneys or other organs. The sodium level will drop when these metals are eliminated from the body.
If the tissue sodium level is elevated on a tissue mineral test, one may become salt sensitive. This is not a problem with salt, but a pathology caused usually by toxic metals or toxic chemicals in the kidneys pituitary or adrenal glands.
A hormone-secreting adrenal tumor may also cause excessive sodium retention causing one to become salt-sensitive. Other conditions of salt sensitivity include Cushings disease.
posted
Percent of population that is salt Sensitive.
The fact is that only about 10 percent of thepopulation is considered ``salt sensitive.'' It is thisrelatively small group that has to watch their saltintake for a variety of reasons, including itsimpact on blood pressure.
You will find higher numbers posted in some places but that is those who are salt sensitive to Table salt. (Table salt is actually sodium chloride) 40 percent sodium and 60 percent chloride.
For that population considering sensitivity to Salt I read:
Researchers estimate that 10 to 25 percent of the population may be salt-sensitive. Among those with diagnosed hypertension, the number rises to 60 percent.
As well
It appears that people who get older are more sensitive, and those who are obese and the African-American community tends to be more salt-sensitive
Please read all posts that are giving you information that is to educate you one the main items that are misunderstood and cause confusion regarding this protocol.
THE main issue that comes up is around SALT>!
ONE : THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF SALTS / ONE IN PROTOCOL
First in the protocol you are to use Pure Natural and UNREFINED Sea Salt that is Celtic or Himalayan which are just two ways it is harvested. One is freshly dried and one is harvested. Both are appropriate for this protocol.
The issue around this is that when there are negative issues or data posted it is typically information that is related to the REFINED salt which is much different than the UNREFINED salt.
This must be kept separate and if you research this and compare them you will see they are not considered the same as far as health considerations.
UNREFINED is essential and needed for proper good health REFINED is bad and can actually be toxic and poison and this is where most of the negative information on the protocol can come from..
Not intentionally but from just uneducated people who do not realize that there is a big difference like there exists.
TWO : SALT SENSITIVE PEOPLE ARE ONES TO TAKE CAUTION
Second is the fact that there are salt sensitive people and I posted all about this in the thread on the past page prior to this.
As well again confusion too on salt sensitive to WHICH salt. The reports that are negative typically come from the group of salt sensitive people whom are sensitive to REFINED Salts or those who already have high blood pressure.
Only 10 percent are salt sensitive to UNREFINED Sea Salt.
It is though important to read all I posted and make sure you are not part of that 10 percent.
I HOPE THIS HELPS CLARIFY A LOT OF THE ISSUES AND WHY PEOPLE WERE NOT ABLE TO SEE EYE TO EYE>
NOW that this is clarified there can be more information presented that pertains to the PROTOCOL SALT
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Sorry, Deb, but much celtic sea salt is taken from waters that are heavily polluted (industrial pollution) and probably in some cases contain high levels of heavy metals. That's what I found out when I researched after my experiment, as I wanted to see if the grey celtic salt I'd used had any possible problems.
It's one thing to sprinkle some nice Celtic salt on your food and be sure you don't get excess sodium in your diet in prepared foods--from bread to pasta sauce--it's another to take a large amount of it daily. You cannot be sure what is in your unrefined salt unless you have it tested. That goes for Himalayan salt, too--you don't know really where it's from and what's in it and whether it is contaminated with metals or other contaminants in earth and groundwater.
The rest of your stuff I skimmed so cannot even comment on it and did not look at the sources.
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
I just cleared up a bunch of confusion and why your are stating all these dangers and issues when it is only related to REFINED SALTS and as well to ONLY The SALT SENSITIVE 10 percent POPULATION>
Unless the people used REFINED SALT IN which that could be more like 50 or 60 percent of the people.
THis is huge information that has not be taken into consideration or show to be included in your data and negative reports.
Yet you are going to move on to picking apart CELTIC SALTS> And if Indeed the CELTIC SALTS Need to be as pure as possible then we all should try to make sure it is..
But that is not comparative to the concern over REFINED SALT ANd how the data out there represents REFINED SALT when it comes to most of the sites and resources regarding all the list of problems you keep listing and quoting..
So I hope people will consider all these variables and not just take your information and run scared when they can be helped and should know ALL The date and information and not just the skinny narrow version.
As you said an I agree.. Everyone needs to know as much as possible that is accurate to be able to make informative choices.
Your presentation has not bee accurate nor inclusive of the variables in the Protocol.
Not the types of ingredients. Not the dosages.. Not the how.. not the when.. not any of the REAL variables.
SO lets be fair here to all people..
And you might want to realize that those who did have trouble had trouble for a reason that is in my variables list.
The are salt senstive.. genetically. They used the wrong kinds of ingredients. They used the wrong amounts. They may have not followed the protocol in other ways .. Maybe other things...... Variables... They may have not drank enough water...
You do not present your cases with real data to see what really happened to those few you list who had trouble. YOu listed the few and it is out of thousands on the protocol.
I feel bad for those who can not take it due to genetic factors..
ANd the ones who did not do the protocol as it was intended I can be sympathetic to because the information is a bit scattered and it takes some time and work to sort through it and understand it and learn about it...
THose who herxed and just felt is was too much to deal with or were afraid can also quit and it can be understandable too if you have new symptoms or weird things like seeing parasites to maybe feel you should stop and research or consult others etc.
I have been contacted by many how have started and stopped to regroup and learn more and who feel they rushed into it etc.
And well there are other things I am sure..
SO lets me fair and spell IT ALL out like it really is..
IF we ant to research Celtic Salts and find out if some are poluted or are not the best for you.. Then we can do that and find the best ones to take that are out there and sold to the general public. That could be helpful as people go out to buy the ingredients for the protocol.
WE have not even started on which C is best.. : ) That can be done too ..
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
This was your absolutist all caps statement:
UNREFINED NATURAL SEA SALT ONLY!!
I point out that there is good information out there that some sea salts come from heavily polluted areas. Caveat emptor, especially if taking large doses daily.
BTW, the yahoo group Lymestrategies evolved to the point where most of the posts were "off topic" "non salt/c". Do you wonder why?
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hi..
The sites you sent me are from advertisers for Himalayan Salts and I read a few of those who say it is better than Celtic..
But upon reading more neutral sites i read that the real salts are all from various places and harvested in different ways. And there has been some concerns depending on where it is harvested and how as to any pollutant concerns.. But I did not find any real data besides on sites wanting to sell their salt.
Some on the protocol like the Himalayan salt and feel it is more pure based on where it is and how it is harvested.
Fine tuning now.. To say the least>. I will keep looking and maybe even certain brands from certain areas might be proven to be more pure of the real salts. That makes some sense but I would not be sure how large of a difference it would be or not.
As well be careful as to some brands use names to look as if they are real or pure but they are trying to get the sale. Read the package etc.
The real thing looks moist. Magnesium in real sea salts helps it retain moisture so real sea salt has a moistness to it and doesn't flow freely like Table Salt.
Himalayan Salt is a fossil marine salt containing 94 elements including calcium, magnesium, potassium, copper and iron; it is higher in sodium than chloride and is mined from the pristine mountains of Himalaya. It mirrors our body with trace minerals.
Course Grey Salt contains a little more minerals than Finely Ground Grey Salt because in order to grind it finely it has been heated and dried over a natural stone. Celtic Sea Salt is the trademarked name for French Grey Sea Salt harvested from the pristine coast of Brittany, France so they are one and the same.
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kelmo
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Member # 8797
posted
If you are seeing Dr. F, he has probably mentioned to you to refrain from too much magnesium.
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Working on it... There are salts that have no magnesium. THANKS
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I have done Himalayan Salt, Celtic salt and now I use Real Salt.
Didn't seem to matter for me which salt, because I am healing and the infections are dying bigtime.
Keeping it simple and staying focused on the basis of the protocol has worked for me. Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Let me clarify....The salt Real Salt is the name of the brand that is mined in Utah which I have seen GiGi recommend.
Yes Deb, people have pmd me too that are afraid to use the protocol because they felt fear tactics were being used and it confused them.
They don't want to post here either because they don't want to be attacked for stating they know people who have had positive results and are healing because they used the salt/c protocol.,
It's a darn shame,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Gael.. Nice And actually there are a few other names of types of salt that is UNREFINED. That is the most important thing,. Then where it is harvested and how will determine what kind you have.. and so.. at that point it is more personal and not right or wrong..
But you might want to make sure it is harvested in the least polluted area of the world. Oxygen says that could be an issue and so I am going to take the Hymalian salt from now on..
Thank you
Stay Well. God Bless PEACE LOVE Light HUGS SMILE HEAL HEALTH HAPPINESS HOPE HAPPY HOLIDAYS D
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
I think the reasons to not take magnesium may not outweigh these reasons that lyme patients need Magnesium very much so.'
Magnesium: Both Lyme and Bartonella significantly deplete the body�s supply of magnesium. Magnesium is one of the most important mineral nutrients necessary for good health, and also one of the minerals that Americans in general are most commonly deficient in.
The recommended daily intake of magnesium for healthy people is 400 mg per day, but the sad reality is that the average American gets about half that amount per day.
The best nutritional sources include green foods, especially collards and chard (magnesium is to chlorophyll what iron is to hemoglobin), orange-colored foods, nuts, chocolate, figs, apricots, coconut, bran, oats, beans, and legumes.
Most widely known for its ability to support the health of the bones, heart, skeletal muscles, and teeth, magnesium also plays essential roles in the maintenance and repair of all body cells, energy production, hormone regulation, nerve transmission, and the metabolism of proteins and nucleic acids.
It also helps to reverse muscular tension and is involved in the functioning of literally hundreds of the body�s enzymatic reactions. A lack of magnesium can also contribute to immune system dysfunction, depression, fatigue, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, gastrointestinal problems, irregular heartbeat, memory problems, mood swings, muscle spasms and twitching, and motor skill problems.
Many chronic symptoms of Lyme/TBDs are related to magnesium deficiency, and the correction of that deficiency can be very effective in relieving those symptoms.
For that reason, I routinely test nearly all patients with chronic Lyme symptoms for magnesium deficiency. The problem with blood testing is that the magnesium blood test should be done on the red bloods cells and not the serum.
This is because magnesium exists primarily inside of cells (intracellular, as in red blood cells), and deficiency will not be detected in fluid outside of the cells (extracellular, as in serum or plasma) until a very profound deficiency exists. If you can afford it, the best, and also most expensive, test is the blood �ionized� magnesium (performed by most large commercial labs).
If blood testing shows low levels of magnesium and if kidney function is good, supplementation is highly recommended, in a dosage range of 400�1,000 mg per day. Take in divided doses because taking large amounts of magnesium may result in loose stools.
There are many good products on the market, the best of which contain primarily magnesium chloride or �chelated� magnesium (such as taurate, citrate, aspartate, glycinate, and others.)
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
And yes, Gale, people have PM'ed me that there is nothing I can do to help people who just want to believe no matter what, and other people have PM'ed me thanking for trying to help people understand the risks. So maybe it's not so sad after all.
You could happily discuss it all on lymestrategies since they routinely banned anyone who talked about risks/dangers/side effects in any other terms than herx and cowboy up. Kurt was banned, I was banned, and Ann (Hiker) was banned among others.
You can join, or you can just bookmark it since it's a public list (if you want to lurk). You will find people to help you there and no "naysayers".
I'm glad you're feeling better, Gale. But the problem for me was when you suggested the stories I told were not credible, that I was using fear tactics, and finally suggested I suffer from severe neurolyme/OCD. In other words, my legitimate citing of the risks, which can be substantial for some people (all intended to help people as I wish I'd been helped two years ago so I could have made a more informed decision myself, since the risks were whitewashed off lymestrategies site and I had to do a bit of research after my experience to really learn and find out about others who'd had equally bad experiences--), you kept trying to invalidate. That is not right.
Enough said because I'm sure there are lurkers who will be cautious now and maybe there are even a few who will be saved some bad side effects that they misinterpeted as herx. Again, I'm glad you feel better.
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
I do not understand why you would be banned from the site just for having a bad experience and if that is true ...
I agree that is wrong. I have looked around some on that site and read a few pots. I am going to look further and though if you are right I would not like it if no one who has had tough times with it were allowed there.
I had not noticed really right off the bad and also did not look to see about the fact that the negatives were not allowed to be there.> That is disturbing to know and maybe that group is handling themselves in a wrong way.? I would am going to spend more time there and see what I can about that and maybe that should be changed as well..?
You are right that information from the problems as well as the successes are important for new people to evaluate as well as keep in their minds if they proceed.
It has helped me to hear it all. Very much so...
I agree that this protocol should proboably be written up or presented in a better manner with more details and the pros and cons and both sides of the coin and how and why some have had trouble. As I wrote in a lot of the posts there are variables such as genetics and as well as how and what is taken and of course your medical conditions you may already have to start with may not be healthy enough to start.
I suggest that people do research and read and read and read and keep and open mind and make a nice long document of your own (until there becomes a better one out there ) of all the data you find and details about the protocol the products used, the method, peoples experiences, and dig down into the reasons for the failures and then if you choose to proceed your armed with all the information to save you from any problems you may have not know about to start with.
i have concern when I hear that some are told to Stick with it.. in a herx reaction and push through it and hang in there etc. And sometimes that can be harmful.. Listen to your body and learn from others and doctors what herx feels like and what is normal and when something does not add up or feel right stop the therapy and get some medical attention and do what your body needs. Even in normal herxing I do not agree with this and think your body needs breaks and you should not push yourself or your organs to do more and more and with risk of damage.
Take those times to give your body time to cleanse and regroup and get rid of the purge of toxins or infections it is trying to rid of. In essence you are doing the same thing as hanging in there but even better. Your helping preserve your organs and body along the way.
From my research there are is about 10 perecent of the people who just can not handle the salt aspect of the therapythis due to genetic reasons .. predisposed for salt sensitivites and unable to be able to get rid of extra salts and that can be damaging.
Then there are others who might have medical issues already standing. Then there are some who are not given all the correct information on the how to do the protoocol and what ingredients to use etc.. And more variables as I wrote in some of the other posts... To add
I had to do a lot of work and digging to get all the facts and all the information and group it together to come up with what I felt was correct.
That is a bit scary and can add to the issue of people not doing well with it..
So - I agree.> Read and reasearch.. Learn and get informed.
Maybe this thread helped people see that it is not really so simple and there is a lot to learn and know.
posted
I have been on this treatment only 2 weeks and I have had maybe one herx for 3days that may or may not be related to the therapy.
Prior to that upon first starting I had felt better and a clearing type feeling. It was nice and I was not sure if it was the Salt C but it happened in that first week I started it.
I am still waiting for time to make my determinations ,but as well after that bad weekend I had. Again I have felt better than usual and again more clear.
The fatigue is not near as heavy. My pain is feeling a lessoning as well. Those usually go hand in hand for me.. Pain and Fatigue.
And then I have other things that are improving.. Sleep is an amazing thing..again it may be too soon to tell why... But It is weird.. Ok I have not ever felt this way... as this week.. I actually get sleepy at night and fall asleep in that normal way. I am getting flashbacks of when i was healthy and wow it is amazing.
I have not idea why this is happening and how.. but I am happy about it.. I actually was falling asleep at my computer last night. THAT is rare and ok I can Never think of other times that has happened at all in the past 8 years. This has been happening all week and even the first week I had noticed changes towards this affect but waited to see if it continued. So far it is..
What a feeling to drift to sleep.. I am so happy ..I hope this one is to stay..
So well again. Not sure what is going on for sure. i can say there has been obvious good things going on.
I am prepared for herxes to come and though in my past when I herx from something it is usually one huge long herx and the only way to get through it is for me to pulse the therapy or to take breaks etc.
This feeling is new to me.. I do admit I like it and I am excited to see if this will build and grow or not...
Other improvements I already see are some of the other symptoms such as blurry vision and concentration and some other things on my long list of issues related to the disease.
Pain and fatigue have always been my number one items but we all know and can related to all the other bothersome things that we have to deal with day to day..
I will give more updates on the other Posting for Updates and in time we can put it together to see the trend and or to see what evolves.
I have tried a lot of therapies in my years.. Many many of all kinds.. And I admit so far i have not had an experience like this.
Honestly i will say I am suprised as to how well i feel and how this is affecting me so far.
I also have worked very hard on detox this year.. Ia m thinking this might be that push and maybe I will not herx as bad as some others do because of that?
I am a bit suprised that I am not herxing ongoing and as a lot of therpies I try to make me herx badly. Hence the detox work I have to work hard at and that has always been an issue for me. Either it is paying off of this may be a temporary feeling of wellness and improvement and all the horrible herxing is still to come>>?
posted
GEEZ, it sounds like everyone here has said their peace.
By the text in the posts all the "digs and insults" STARTED from the people who can not take the salt C. And people such as Gael and Deb have been left to defend themselves.
All information, positive and negative is good but the need to demean and control others is not.
Like with everything else in life there is positive and negative. They've all been discussed here and we are now all more informed. Thank you for that.
I guess like lyme disease, OCD must be a pain to live with too.
It's time to heal.
[ 11. December 2008, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: FancyRatFan ]
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Deb, the amount you are doing is probably helping your adrenals. Check out the work of James Wilson and his book on adrenal fatigue. For those with adrenal exhaustion a relatively small extra amount of salt daily can be helpful. He also has other supplements that might interest you, and his book explains the symptoms of adrenal fatigue.
Also, Deb, just so you understand, it's likely true that some salts are healthier than others, but there is no "right" or "wrong" kind of salt for this "protocol". Lymephotos took salt pills, which does have the advantage of knowing exactly how much you're taking. At some point when people were having bad side effects it was suggested by Marc and others on lymestrategies that the *type* of salt was the cause. There were "right" salts and "wrong" salts. Think about this and you will understand this cannot be the case.
It was also suggested that people weren't following the "ramp up" correctly. Yet even those who did, sometimes had very adverse effects. So that wasn't the cause many times either. The problem was, how was one to know during ramp up when the "toxic" level might have been reached, and in addition, how was one to distinguish toxicity/harmful side effects from herxheimers? This is one reason it is wise to be under the care of a good doctor, let them know you are doing this, and be monitored, I would say at least every month or two esp for kidney function. And by the way, BUN and creatinine are measures of kidney function once it is really impaired. Better measures are microalbumin in the urine and there are some others that are very good early measures (used in diabetics).
Also monitor blood pressure frequently.
Oddly enough, somebody from Las Vegas who has had lyme since 2003 called me today. She has been on doxycycline for 3 years but though it helped a good deal it did not cure her and now she has such yeast problems she will have to stop it. She also does bee venom (Gigi has talked about this therapy) which gives her a lot of energy she says, and various other holistic therapies. She wanted to know firsthand about the hyperbaric chamber. Anyway, in the course of describing my ups and downs I mentioned that salt/c had really done a number on me and set me back and she said, "Me too. It really caused me a setback."
So...lots of people don't post about such things, they just move on. I get a little tired of posting here what was posted two years ago, but if it helps some people be more cautious, then all to the good.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Deb- I can totally understand where you are coming from. When i first started salt c, i felt soooo great for the first 3 days. i actually thought to myself, wow, i don't think i am going to herx, i'm just going to feel better and better...
i look back and laugh, the reprieve you feel is the calm before the storm. i had that. then, oh my god, the 4 week herx hit and it was hard.
deb, really hard. every inch of my body hurt, fatigue, swollen glands, headaches. the herx was far more severe than any abx herx i have ever had. so be prepared. but, it sooo worth it. because on the other side of the herx is so much healing.
i have just passed the 7 month mark and am overjoyed at the clarity in my thinking. i don't have brain fog. i know it may wax and wane again with the upcoming herxes but, today it is not there.
my experience with salt c is things get worse, better then worse again...take your time
i spoke to gael about something that happened to mt privately this week and i will share it with you as well. i had what looked like a worm in my stool this week. i about passed out i was so grossed out. it was 2 inches long and had a picner appendage and i am still in TOTAL shock.
what the heck, right? gross. gross. well, i am happy it is out not in.
i have passed a few things on that lymephotos site. again, in the beginning, i thought i will never see those things in the toilet, and now here i am 7 months later, soooo grossed out.
i don't tell you this to scare you. just to keep you informed.
i am soooo encouraged with salt c. i am amazed. thank god we have this protocol. i owe marc my life. so good luck and remember take your time. sammy
Posts: 82 | From philadelphia | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Deb- I can totally understand where you are coming from. When i first started salt c, i felt soooo great for the first 3 days. i actually thought to myself, wow, i don't think i am going to herx, i'm just going to feel better and better...
i look back and laugh, the reprieve you feel is the calm before the storm. i had that. then, oh my god, the 4 week herx hit and it was hard.
deb, really hard. every inch of my body hurt, fatigue, swollen glands, headaches. the herx was far more severe than any abx herx i have ever had. so be prepared. but, it sooo worth it. because on the other side of the herx is so much healing.
i have just passed the 7 month mark and am overjoyed at the clarity in my thinking. i don't have brain fog. i know it may wax and wane again with the upcoming herxes but, today it is not there.
my experience with salt c is things get worse, better then worse again...take your time
i spoke to gael about something that happened to mt privately this week and i will share it with you as well. i had what looked like a worm in my stool this week. i about passed out i was so grossed out. it was 2 inches long and had a picner appendage and i am still in TOTAL shock.
what the heck, right? gross. gross. well, i am happy it is out not in.
i have passed a few things on that lymephotos site. again, in the beginning, i thought i will never see those things in the toilet, and now here i am 7 months later, soooo grossed out.
i don't tell you this to scare you. just to keep you informed.
i am soooo encouraged with salt c. i am amazed. thank god we have this protocol. i owe marc my life. so good luck and remember take your time. sammy
Posts: 82 | From philadelphia | Registered: Aug 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Hi Sammy,
So glad you are doing so well. Thanks for sharing with us the fact that you found that parasitic worm.
It's unbelievable what is going on inside our bodys. It makes sense tho when you think about the symptoms.
Especially when people report the stinging, biting, crawling they experience. It's no wonder we are so sick. It just makes sense.
This protocol is saving me life as well. That's why I feel it's so important that people know about it.
It at least gives them a fighting chance,
Hope you are having a good evening,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Oh yikes. Even after 7 months you have having those things coming out??? So did you have them coming out right away too>?? And how often>> ever since>>?? Just curious.
Glad you are doing well. Its so nice to hear.
DANG.. You had to burst my little bubble. I guess i better enjoy it while I can.. So it was week 4 for you. And maybe I can have 3 weeks like this>> I Will take anything I can get .. honestly. after the years of sickness.. I cheerish very minute
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Ummm Deb,
I still have smaller ones still coming out after 2 yrs. Actually I realized it's 2 1/2 yrs. Started salt/c May 2006.
You have to realize it's like peeling an onion. The salt is waking up the ones that were hibernating.
Also don't forget these things can lay about 200,000 eggs a day. It's just know wonder this is such a brutal disease.
Yes, what Sammy says is true, so enjoy while you can,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Here is the link to the article you sent to me.
Called:
Salt Deficiency: the cause of many serious diseases
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Thanks for posting that Deb. I really think it could be a serious problem with a lot of people.
We are 75% saline and it's close to a sea salt composition.
Thanks Again, Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Below some parts and just a few items mentioned . but the point I am writing mostly about is the List of Things to treat and the order.. I found this interesting
The co-infections are bacterial, viral, fungal and parasitic
A list of significant co-infections is limited: roundworms, tapeworms, threadworms, toxoplasmosis, giardia and amoebas, clostridia, the herpes virus family, parvovirus B 19, active measles (in the small intestine), leptospirosis, chronic strep infections and their mutations, Babesia, Brucella, Ehrlichiosis, Bartonella, mycoplasma, Rickettsia, Bartonella and a few others. Molds and fungi are always part of the picture.
There is an inherent order in which the microbes should be treated. If the order is correct, gentle methods work
1. Start with deworming our clients. We often use a simple yet agressive seasalt/Vit C protocol which has an independent effect aginst the spirochetes also. The high salt conmcentration kills large parasites by osmotically induced dehydration (osmotic shock). High salt levels also increase the enzyme elastase which has a strong antimicrobial/anti-spirochete effect
2. Next step is the treatment of giardia, entamoeba histolytica and trichomonas Protocol: organic freeze dried garlic treats all of the above astoundingly successfully sometimes Tinidazole
3. Next the chronic strep infections, which often coexist with the herpes viruses. No other treatment has been as successful as Pleo Not (penicillum notatum) from Pleomorphic-Sanum followed by a 6 month course of Pleo Sancom. cryotherapy of tonsils may be necessary
4. The next step is the treatment of Babesia. There are now at least 17 subtypes of this intracellular Malaria-like organism. Eye, brain and dental symptoms are most often caused by this mean microbe.Artemisinin always with grapefruit juice. Riamet or Mepron.
5. Next step is to start the client on a systemic antiviral treatment.ayurvedic herb cocktail - Indian Gooseberry, Chebulic and Beleric myrobalan. The insomnia of Lyme disease is often herpes viral in nature (EBV, VZ or HSV 1, HSV II). As a diagnostic trial I often use 1000 mg of the medical antiviral drug Valtrex at bedtime. If there is a dramatic improvement, herbal antiviral treatment has to be considered for a long time.
6. Simultaneously the fungal/yeast component which is most often present, especially if clients had prior antibiotic treatment. Fungi and viruses seem to support each other in yet unknown ways.amphotericin B (250 mg bid) or the combination of organic freeze dried garlic and oil of oregano.
8. Mycoplasma responds well to enzymes, when it is treated in sequence with the other microbes
9. The spirochetes and their close relatives ( Bartonella, Rickettsia, Ehrlichiosis, Brucella abortis) are best treated last - with antimicrobial herbs or antibiotics.,
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glm1111
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Deb,
Thanks For posting this info. Very concise and to the point.
I had mentioned much earlier on this thread that Dr. K. treats all his Lyme patients for worms with salt/C .
He is considered the best LLMD in the country by many. Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hey Gael
I am thinking that a lot of people do not realize that BABESIA is a PARASITE..
Would I be going out on a limb to say that..> I do not want to insult anyone.
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DebAz
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posted
This was found on a technical website under the treatment options section.. and is A description of Salt therapy for lyme disease.
TREATMENT OPTION FOR LYME DISEASE
Oral Salt Therapy is the process of taking high quantities of salt internally. High amounts of sodium stimulate the white blood cells to release elastase, an enzyme that begins a cascade of events that leads to boring a hole in the spirochete or other infectious organism, and hence killing it.
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glm1111
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I am not sure how most people think of babesia.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
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posted
Well each of the "infections" have a a different basis and I think when someone says parasite they may not associate it with Babesia and Bartonella
glm1111
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posted
Deb,
Nothing to be sorry about. I just wasn't sure how other people perceive some of these infections.
Example: Some people have poo-pooed the pictures from lymephotos as being fake. I can tell you I have seen these parasites first hand and they are the real deal.
I guess it is pretty horrifying and it's understandable how people go into denial.
I once saw a thread a long time ago, where one person said"I'd rather stay in denial". Thanks for posting that link,
Hope your okay today,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hey there.. Can I ask you a graphic question. What color are the ones you see and I know you said they match the site pictures
But are any of them just white?
As well.> Why do they not have Bartonella up there no the Parasite page. I had thought it would be inclusive in that group? Facultative intracellular parasites
posted
Another question..When they come out of you are they always dead or are they moving at all and alive still???
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DebAz
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posted
And what ones do you see most of and second to the most and how many total species do you think you have seen?
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glm1111
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posted
They are ALWAYS dead. They have been shocked osmotically by the salt. They are blue, pink/red/black exactly as seen on the site.
I have seen a lot of white ones as well. I think those are thread worms. Some of them look exactly like earth worms.
We can have more parasites than pictured in the photos.(tapeworms, roundworms, ascaris etc) As explained, each Lyme patient has other parasites not pictured.
We each have accumulated different ones depending on what we have ingested over the years.
In general the ones pictured seem to be most prevelant. I don't know about the Bartonella.
It is a good question though.Have to give it some thought.
Hope this answers your questions,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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My sister sent me the lymephotos site. When I read that these things came out of you I freaked a bit.
However I couldn't get that picture out of my mind. The thought they were in my body was worse than the thought of seeing them come out.
Now Im used to the idea and awaiting to see these things come out.
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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glm1111
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posted
Hi Fancy,
You have a very smart sister. When they come out you will understand why you have been so sick.
Deb and Sammy are both seeing stuff. You know now what you are mainly dealing with, so you can take charge and go after them.
Given the symptoms Lyme sufferers have, it just makes sense that spirochetes are not the only enemy.
The salt also kills the other infections as well. It is a powerful bacteriocide.
I refer to and read the lymephotos site a lot. I always see info I didn't see before.
Take Care,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
okay, i took gael's advice and referred back to the lymephotos site. oh god. ugh. i now have seen many of these buggers in the toilet.
gael, remember when i told you i had what looked like a worm on my tp the other day? well, i am convinced that what i saw on the tp was the "cocoon" from the lymephotos site.
ugh. gross. it looked just like that. long and gelatinous. oh god.
also, with most of my BM's i have been seeing red threadlike things. i thought they were remnants of my tomatoes. wrong. stopped eating tomatoes for a week as an experiment and they are still in the toilet.
ugh. gross. i can't believe i have worms in me.
i am shocked. i am 7 months in and just noticing these things. well, they may have been exiting all along, i just started to look.
gael, do you still experince diarrhea? i do. a lot. i guess that is a good sign that my body is trying to get rid of it all.
anyhow, wow. i am amazed that all of this junk is inside me. makes me sad. no wonder i have felt so sick for so long.
talk soon sammy
Posts: 82 | From philadelphia | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
This thread is a waste of time. Those of you looking for truly effective protocols - switch to a different one. Others enjoy Gael & Deb bla bla show.
-------------------- ~From Russia with Lyme~ Posts: 34 | From Rostov-on-Don, Russia | Registered: Dec 2007
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glm1111
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posted
Evgen,
FYI, there are a lot of people watching this thread. They are sending Deb and I pms for support while doing the salt/c and making great progress.
These are highly intelligent individuals who understand how powerful and effective this protocol is and they will get well.
People don't like posting here because of unkind messages such as yours.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
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Member # 15067
posted
Evgen,
I'm not on the protocol, but why on earth would you make a comment like that? 33 posts and that's all you have to say on Lymenet..hmmm..
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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