It's great to hear about the progress you seem to be making; one thing however: Nematodes, worms, and any other form of parasites do not produce bacteria, they harbor them in their GI tracts just as we do. If the nematodes in your body are hatched there, and their Gi tracts are sterile at birth like ours are, then they get their gi bugs from us...
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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Last nite I found something odd in the toilet. It was kinda white and perfectly round.
I took it out and found it had boyance (really don't know how to spell that word) It reminded me of a sea weed kelp bulb except alot smaller and different color.
So I opened it up and it had like jelly sticky stuff inside.
I looked on lymephotos and it looked like one of the cocoon pictures only white instead of red.
Interesting.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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glm1111
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Wow Fancy,
That's great! Sounds like things are getting stirred up and starting the process of moving out. Way to go!! Keep us posted. Looking forward to your next report,
Gael
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glm1111
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posted
Doc Luddite,
You're right, they don't produce them.
But from what I read they carry an intracellular wolbachia endobacteria species that belongs to the family of Rickettsiaceae found in all life cycle stages of nematodes.
These are not originally from our g.i.track I have the abstract info on this, but I am having a problem putting the link here.
If you're interested you can google wolbachia bacteria for more info.
Thanks for your support. How are you doing? What protocol(s) are you using to get rid of Lyme Complex?
Hope you are doing well,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I have a daily routine of healthy diet, consisting of fresh food, high fiber, no processed food or milk, no HFCS, no flour products made from unbleached flour. Recently I have abstained from coffee. I take a naturally derived vitamin D from a fish source at a dose ranging from 1-2000 IU/day depending on my sun exposure, or tanning booth activity which is 3 minutes once or twice a week. I take niacin to raise my HDL, chlorella to bind heavy metals, especially mercury, a metal I know I have difficulty with, and folic acid to enhance hepatic detoxification. I take 2000mg of fish oil every day, and N-acetyl-cysteine as a glutathione precursor, as that also helps with detox. I take 4 capsules/day of dried sea kelp to ensure that I am getting iodine in plentiful amounts. I take red yeast rice for cholesterol and licorice as a tonic. I just started vitamin E. As long as I follow my protocol, I am able to live the life I desire to live. I do all this not because I believe I have Lyme, but because I am 50, and I do believe that for most, aging slows the process of homeostasis down and that is aggravated by environmental toxicity and micronutrient deficiency. I have started the sea salt vitamin C protocol out of interest generated by the debate on these threads. While I don't deny the existence of acute lyme and post lyme syndromes, philosophically I believe that our immune system is where the buck stops, and I focus my energies on maintaining that system. I have noticed that I don't seem to be the tick magnet I used to be since starting the kelp, despite the fact that my cats bring them indoors all spring, summer and fall. That is merely observation, but I know there are people who seem to attract mosquitoes and those that don't, and there must be a reason, so who knows if ticks don't behave similarly...
I will try to check out that bacteria/nematode connection you mentioned, but if the nematode has an egg form that resides in the saliva of the tick, and that is how you get the nematode, then it still should have a sterile GI tract when it hatches in your system. If not, then somehow the nematode is ingested live with the bacteria already on board.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Thanks Gael. Good Information from you and DoctorLuddite.
DoctorLuddite, Can you tell us at what pace you are taking the Salt/C? How much in tsp a day and how you are dividing it. Just curious.
I think I have mentioned this weird sensation on the top of my head. Well last nite it started again. This time it didn't go away so I took a look in the mirror.
There was a bright red mark surrounding a white bumb. I think it's a bumb. It's kinda hard to see.
It was alot like I saw on my thumb that one day. This morning I have started to feel those weird sensations a couple of other places on my head. But they are places I can't see.
The bump thing is still there this morning but no more sensations in the one spot.
I'm going to go up on the salt/C after Christmas probably 1/4 tsp and mabe start on some Black walnut/wormwood/clove anti parasite herbs.
Hope everyone is doing good today.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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DebAz
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posted
Fancy.. Well wow. I read your post on the white cocoon looking blobs? Those were the first things I noticed and well I have not seem then again after the first week or two. I saw exactly and inspected them exactly like you...
And then there were the white worm things and reddish stringy very thin worms and .. more recently the dark bugs that have an outershell that is dark and inside they are white and like a eggish thing comes out.. And of course the things coming out my nose.. And these all seem to match what others are saying..
I am upping my amount soon too and since I started the capsules I noticed that they are not more potent or less potent in feeling... so I have been pretty stable on them and do not feel like I am taking too much.. at all...
So I am still on 1/2 total a day. And will be going up tomorrow a 1/4 for the week. I am not afraid of it but as well I know and have learned if It feels like too much I can stop for even a day or two and I can regroup fast..
Just like I do with abx..
So. well. Just checking in.. Glad it sounds like people are doing well and sounds like Fancy you are getting some sensations and symptoms of those bugs trying to and getting out.!
Keep me up to date.> It helps so much hearing from you and then when I hear the same description etc it really helps me understand what is going on as well help me identify or know that I am also having the same things as someone else..
It just really helps.
THANK you so much all for the ongoing support. on this forum.
posted
Fancy.. Let me know how you intend to up the 1/4 tsp and how your splitting things etc/
I think we should post a new little chart like My last one with the dates we upped the amounts and how we are taking it etc.
I wish other would as well give us that info if they are doing it but I think that are lots who choose not to post and I guess I do not blame then either..
It leaves you open for what has happened here..
THANKS to the comments of hanging in there no matter what others say.. It sure helps. I have felt pretty low on some days and I am just human. I can not say that nothing affects me.. And when you are sick it is even harder to endure those things.
glm1111
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posted
Hi Fancy,
The bumps on my scalp started pushing thru when I was on some strong herbs for Lyme & co. When I started the salt/c all h#ll broke loose.
The parasites started pouring out of me in the toilet and the bumps on my head started to break thru the skin.
They are/were the small parasitic worms that are discussed on lymephotos(pushing thru the scalp)
I also had the long thready (like sewing thread)ones come out of my head in eggshell blue and pink.
I would just find them on my desk. I know this sounds bizarre, but that's what happened. This certainly would explain some of my brain fog
Just go with it and know you are getting this crap out of you so you can get well.
Doc, I enjoyed reading your protocol, but would you mind breaking it up to make it easier for us neurolymies to read? Thanks
Have you been tested for Lyme & co? Would be interested on your progress as you are doing the salt/c. Looking forward to your posts. Are you using sea salt?
Hope everyone has a great day?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Did you say I may start seeing cuts on my body? I found one on my lip last nite after I had the sensations.
I have one on my finger too. I have no idea where they came from. They are small but a clean cut like from a razor knife.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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glm1111
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posted
Hi Deb & Fancy,
I just thought I would chime in here as far as dosing goes. What I usually do is treat it like any other meds I have taken.
When I was up to 3/4 tsp,
I just divided the dose 3x a day.
In other words I took
1/4tsp each Am
1/4tsp each...NOON
1/4tsp.....PM.
I am now taking 20 gms p/day so I take it in divided doses of 1 tsp each 4x a day. Hope this is clear......
.Gael
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glm1111
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posted
Fancy,
We must have been posting at the same time. In reference to the cuts, I have had these on my hands/fingers and some on my lips. They usually end up in scabs.
It's the parasitic worms coming out. They are trying to escape the salt.
It's not as creepy as it sounds, but just know you are on your way to getting rid of them.
My hands are clear now. I only had a few on my lips. If you need any more info or support let me know,
Gael
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DebAz
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posted
Hey Gael.
I think about the dosing the thing is that if we go up by 1/4 then there will be times we have to not be divided equally in the day.
glm1111
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posted
Hi Deb,
I start the protocol with 1/4 tsp at a time. Never have done it in 1/8.(not enough to make a difference)
This is how I keep it simple. Increments of 1/4 tsp thru the day until you reach 1tsp.
.If you are doing 3/4tsp you would do it 3x a day in increments of 1/4 and so on.
When you reach 1tsp which would be 4x a day it would be broken up into 1/4tsp doses.
Then when you want to increase again you would take 1tsp and then later in the day 1/4tsp.( Ramp up slowly)
When you are ready to ramp up again do it in 1/4 tsp increments thru the day and so on.
This is the way I do it and what has worked for me. I am not sure what Marc has in his e-book as far as dosing, but Sammy could probably tell you because she has the book.
I hope I didn't confuse you. I think whatever you're comfortable with. Let me know,
Gael
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glm1111
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Deb,
forgot to address the scratches on your breasts. Okay, think of it this way.
The worm/parasites are on the run from the salt. They are trying to push their way out. The skin has to open. Think of this.
When you have an infected finger and stick it in salt water the skin opens so the pus can come out.
I have them in my breasts as well, but I didn't get cuts there. Mine appeared on my shoulders and upper and lower back.
Then they formed scabs and if I flicked the scabs the parasites come out.
(I know YUK) But this is what we are dealing with and why we are so sick. Just try and focus on "the enemy is on the run" and I am getting them out of my body.
I wish there was an easier way, but I haven't found one. Hope this helps,
Gael
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Thanks Gael
I think i will be as well taking some Sodium chloride baths and see how I feel with that too.
PS> I have had issues ongoing with fungal toenail infections. Not horrible. Just not ever going completely away
they are all of a sudden now going away. and drying out and I hwas working on them and using tea tree oil for years to just keep them from getting worse. .Just never could get them healed up completley .. I know the abx make that worse.. too..
But lately.. they have been getting better..
Thats a good sign
THANKS for all the info and support.
I have not heard about how your doing lately You said nothing new??
Do you think your close to being able to stop the therapy?? or would you ever cut back on amount?? or??
Where do you feel you are now at this point??
And I know you said you still see the bugs .. ..
on one thread I saw you write that you feel you are almost done with this mess..
I sure hope you are close.. and you have been through enough and so long and too much suffering and pain..
I hope for all your further healing... and continued success with the Salt and C therapy.
It so good to hear a real change or corner turned when nothing else was working
glm1111
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posted
Wow Deb,
That's great about your toenails healing from the fungus. I did read on the lymephotos site that the salt will help clear the candida/fungus issues.
The only new symptom I had to report was that huge bullseye rash on my chest and under my breats. It is almost completely gone.
It's a very light pink right now.I can't say the infection is in remission because I still feel some movement in my back. It is less and less every day.
I am almost finished could mean another 6 mos. I don't know. I don't trust these suckers. I will NEVER completely go off the salt/c protocol.
These worms have layed an enormous amount of eggs. All you need is one to start the cycle again.
I just read somewhere that the person from lymephotos is still on salt/c after 6yrs.
I don't know what dose I will keep, but I will stay at 20gms for quite a while.
Talk Soon,
Gael
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DebAz
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Just an update on new amount for this week. Things feel pretty even and stable and ready to work up. I think I left last week out.. So. well. here is the update.. Debbie.. Hope everyone is well..
DATE STATED SALT C : 12-2-08 KIND OF SALT : Sodium chloride - Plain Pills 452 mg KIND OF C : Bluebonnet Buffered C Crystals PILLS OR LIQUID : Liquid drink combining Salt/C ABX ON or OFF : On ABX KIND DOSAGE: Ketek 400mg M W F weekly
INCREMENT TIMING AND AMOUNTS
12-2-08 1/4 tsp total 1 gram 1/8 am and 1/8 pm each of Salt and C
12-9-08 1/2 tsp total 2 grams 1/4 am and 1/4 pm each of Salt and C
12-16-08 1 tsp total or about 4 grams = 8 tablets per day 1/2 am and 1/2 pm each of Salt and C
12-22-08 1 1/2 tsp a day or about 6 grams a day 3 grams am and 3 grams pm of Salt and C
What brand of the Real Salt did you say you were using?? I am still researching and trying to find out what is best and I think I still have not found what I want ... to take for sure. moving forward Deb
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glm1111
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Deb,
Real Salt is the brand name. I just e-mailed you the info. I also order ester-c from Vita Cost
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Thanks for the info on the cuts. The one on my lip is almost gone now.
I'm glad to hear your chest is getting better. Did and does it hurt or itch?
I'll up the Salt/C on the 26th. That will be about 3 1/2 grams than.
I am going slow since it takes about 3 to4 days for my Blood Pressure to level out when I up the dose.
Just being cautious since I have family history of my Dad's Blood pressure. I don't want to shock my system by going to fast.
you guys have a great day!!!
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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DebAz
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posted
Hi Fancy Sounds like your doing pretty well.. Can I ask how high your blood pressure gets and what it is when it calms down?
I got a blood pressure monitor to be on the safe side myself so if it starts doing anything funky I can adjust to talk to my doc etc.. or just watch it.. overall.
As well as taking my temp too...
I will be up to 6 grams a day and will take 1/2 tsp 3 x a day starting today.
I went up kinda fast but at one point i was using some new measuring spoons and I used the smallest one and I had thought it was 1/4 ts but later saw it was 1/2 and so I had jumped up at that point and already was doing that for a week. So... That is my mistake and it boosted me a bit faster than I would have planned on and now i kinda and leveling out but also wanted to continue moving ... not sure if that make senese??
I am pretty tired right now and hurting.. Woke up with an auweful back ache.. I can not even stand up straight and have always had back problems.
Did you see the thread on back problems and relation to Lyme? as well on some other sites lots of talk about it. Every time I have gotten physical Therapy on my back.. even very small movements or treatments including just gentle ultra sound ... my back hurts really back and i feel sick like a herx.
So i know there is some relationship there...Gael has mentioned it as well.
Anyway. Talk to you later.
Have a great day yourself. I will probably be back on tonight sometime
glm1111
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posted
Hi Everyone,
I have been very tired and sleeping a lot. In the past couple days my gland on my right side has been swollen.
I am pretty sure it is from the salt trying to draw the infection out. Also having some head pain from the lesions.(getting much smaller) as the infection dies.
Hope everyone is making progress and doing well,
Gael
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DebAz
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posted
Hi There.
I am doing well so far and still I noticed my sleep being so much improved. I swear it has been years since I felt sleepy. >My eyes were droopy!! Yeah! How nice it feels.
I fell asleep and had dreams and woke up feeling like I had actually had some sleep.
This has affected my adreanals or something. >Something is shifting for sure.
I feel some Herx type reactions but nothing horrible.. And when I feel the herx build up to staying in bed bad. I take a day or two and half my dose.. And it works!
all I can say is WOW and it feels good to see and feel something change for the better.
glm1111
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posted
Yikes, This rash is coming out again. I am almost positive this is a herx.
It almost looks like pictures of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.
Raised red bumps that are itchy. I am putting aloe vera on it and it seems to help. It gets worse when I drink the salt/c.
I think the infection is just on the run. Hope everyone had a nice holiday,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
gael- i will try to print out the ebook for you and mail you a copy. i am just so crazy with the holidays.
still feeling herxy. i have added a few drops of MMS to my routine and that is really kicking my behind. i must have some viruses and fungii that the MMS is attacking. still holding at 20 grams of salt c.
just spoke to another person over emial today who credits his recovery to salt c, FIR saunas and coffee enemas...just shows how important detoxing is... sammy
Posts: 82 | From philadelphia | Registered: Aug 2007
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glm1111
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Hi Sammy,
Sent you a pm. Steelbone sent me a copy so please don't fret. Just focus on healing. Good to hear someone else recovered from salt/c.
Take It Easy,
Gael
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DebAz
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posted
Hmmm hey guys.. Anyway. someone can forward that to me too??
seekhelp
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posted
I spoke more to my chiropractor today about sea salt. He said it was good for you, but no miracle cure for anything. He said it's best for people with low blood pressure mainly. I guess everyone has different viewpoints.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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glm1111
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posted
Deb,
Had every intention of doing that for you, as soon as I figure out how to open it.
I originally had asked for it for someone that asked if I could get copy.
I have to have someone walk me thru opening the file since I can't figure it out.
Just sit tight and will forward as soon as I can. You didn't really think I would forget about you, did you silly?
Gael
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
LOL Gael I know I know..
Silly Goose..
Hey> i am good at files.. If you want to let me try to help
glm1111
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posted
Where is everybody?
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Yeah.??
Hey Gael Did you get my email?? I am not sure where I found that information I read. But its gone.. ANd I checked on the site too? Its weird.
Hi Deb, thanks for asking about me. Holidays and stuff have kept me a bit occupied. FYI your PM box is full. I tried to send a message to you but it wouldn't go through and it said your box was full.
I'm doing fine. with Salt C. Today I will add to the dosage.
Salt C 3/4 tsp a day
Divided 3 times a day.
I wish everyone Happy Holidays!!!
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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glm1111
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Hey Fancy,
Good to see you back. I was wondering about you too. Hope you had a nice Holiday.
Are you herxing at all?
Talk Soon,
Gael
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posted
So what about me getting my hand on the e-booK? Is that possible?
Hi Gael, hows your rash? Do you think it may be the Mountain Rocky? I hope not. Unless the salt is getting rid of it. How are you today?
I'm doing good. I just started getting body aches after my second dose of salt today. I don't usually take dose until at nite.
I have been concerned about my blood pressure. It was up a little higher than I would like it to be on an average.
So I started walking 20 min at least 3to 4 times a week. Taking potassium supplement and eating as much potassium rich foods as possible and got it down to 96/72.
I'm pretty happy about that.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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seekhelp
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96/72...OMG would I be surprised if I ever saw that reading. Amazing. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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glm1111
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posted
Fancy, I sent you a pm
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glm1111
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Well Seek, Ya never know. Maybe a little salt eh? I saw what you posted about your chiro. I am confused.
First she said to take 1/2 to 1 tsp salt and it would lower your pressure. Then you went back and she said it's only good for people with low b/p.
And then she said it's no miracle cure. I would love to show her the parasites that have come out of me.
You should show her the www.lymephotos.com and see what she thinks. To me getting those things out is a miracle.
Not trying to be combative at all. Just trying to understand. Anyway, have you been successful with any protocol you have come across?
I hope so. For me I don't care if bird seed from timbucktoo works as long as it does. BTW wheres my $35?
Gael
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Yes, I was surprised too. I haven't seen it that low in years. I did some looking on the internet after my brother-in-law who is a register nurse told me to make sure I was eating enough potassium rich foods.
I went online and found that Potassium has been known to lower blood pressure. But like anything else you can't take too much of it.
So I don't know if which one is doing it the exercise or the potassuim. Mabe both together, But it's really helping.
Fancy
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Okay in my 2nd week of salt & Stuff, Here's my list: Himalayan Miracle Salt - 2 in the AM & 1 at night (increases each week) Apple Polyphenols 500 mg 2 in the AM & 1 at PM (also increases each week) Supplements = Cal-Mag 1000 mg 1/day Potassium = 10 MEQ 1/day Multivitamin 1/day Levothroid 125 1/day
So here's my question: I'm in a bad way emotionally. Actually tried to take something last night. Don't know why I did it, I just did. This isn't likeme to be so severely depressed. Is it this protocol and is this really just a herx? I'm hoping so that might help me make it through the next few weeks. Plus the pain is there daily - really it actually seems worse, if that was even possible.
What do all of you think? Can this protocol mess with your head?
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seekhelp
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posted
I was wondering what on earth happened to Gael? All this talk about Salt/C and she just disappeared. Strange. is she OK?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I restate my position on this being in the Snake Oil category.
Salt & C is dangerous It was invented by a guy in his kitchen No MD, or Natural Dr would recommend this People who sell this is ebooks are wrong. It offers false hope- How does it effect cystic, or extra cellular Lyme
Hi, Salt/C has helped many people. My advice to you is don't waste your time posting on lymenet regarding salt/C.
Some are against it without even trying it. Some were not able to take it because of salt sensitivity. Like me.
I found out when I got up to 5 grams I am salt sensitive. I was sad but that's the way it is. So, I just take one gram now because it makes me feel good and doesn't effect my BP. I'll be looking for other means of treatment.
There are precautions to take and things to look out for just like with ABX.
It will probably be more helpful.
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glm1111
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posted
Hi Seek,
I am here. I have been sleeping a lot. I am making big strides every day as far as dieoff. How are you doing? Are you still taking salt/c? Sorry if I disappeared but after Deb left there wasn't much anything new for me to post.
I have been on the salt/c for 2 1/2 yrs and counting. Also there were a lot of complaints from people that this was looking like a salt/c board.
hcconn,
making blanket statements that salt/c is dangerous is not helpful for those people that it has worked wonders for including myself. The pros and cons of the protocol have been stated on this thread. It has completely and safely saved my life.
1 tickedlady,
Yes as with any protocol it can cause emotional herxes as well as neurological herxes. Remember the pathogens in the brain are dying as well. How much Himalayan salt are you taking? You said 2 in the am and 1 at night. Do you mean gms...tsps or what exactly?
Also I don't see any vitamin C on your list. The protocol is equal amnts of sea salt with equal amnts of vit c. Ramping up slowly is important as well as drinking a lot of water. If you need mor clarity, let me know., Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
P.S
Salt/c does kill the cyst form as is shown on www.lymephotos.com I have seen the cyst form as shown here. Salt is a broad spectrum natural bacteriocide and goes deep into the tissues working on a cellular level.
Think of it like peeling an onion. When you cut yourself and you get an infection, soaking your finger in salt water draws out the infection. Same principal, only it is pulling these infections out of your body not just your finger,
Gael
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
PREPARATION to consider for the Salt / Vitamin C Protocol - the First Step:
As with preparation for any protocol, you'd first want to consult your doctor and get some blood work.
It's important to read from a variety of sources and get various authors' original and updated literature.
Be very careful about following dosage amount from a post as each person can be different, typos do occur, etc., so you'd want to be sure to double check with the official author's statement to make sure dosage suggestions match up.
It's also a good idea to take a look at the sites of the American Kidney Foundation and the American Heart Association for the safety levels of sodium. In general, learning more about how the kidneys and heart works is helpful, too.
It's good to learn more about sea salt, too. If you decide not to do the salt/vit C protocol, avoiding normal table salt and using sea salt for daily use is a good idea, within a range suggested by your doctor for your body.
Before beginning this - or any protocol, really: share your intentions with your doctor.
Have your doctor run labs on your kidney function and electrolytes - and also check your blood pressure and heart rhythm. Excess salt can be dangerous for someone with decreased kidney function or certain heart conditions. And, yes, it can be fatal, under certain circumstances.
If you are diabetic, this protocol is not advised, so be sure to have glucose testing first, as some people are not aware if they have diabetes. Overweight people also have increased kidney pressure so this could pose risks.
It is also important to let your doctor know if you have any edema (puffiness or swelling of face, hands, feet, etc.). Edema can be sign that the kidneys or heart are stressed regarding circulation or elimination.
Here is one good article from someone who has done this - to consider as part of preparation/study:
12. IF a person has ANY reason to suspect that they have heart or kidney weaknesses, or that they may have the ACE mutation (most people with CFS may have this), or if they know that they have any other the risk factors, they should not be on salt/c without careful monitoring of their progress, and if possible medical supervision.
- Full post at link above.
====
Note: this protocol is not suggested by any LLMD but any doctor would still be able to offer you the preliminary tests required.
This protocol is not to be confused with the practice of modest increases in sodium intake for patients with various kinds of low blood pressure (POTS, NMH, etc.)
That is something quite different and does not involve the same levels. Patients are also under a doctor's supervision for that.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Read what happened to Sara.
I need to speak up every now and again and remind people that Salt/C is not for everyone.
I did it for a few months a couple of years ago, and ended up in the ER with all the symptoms of full-blown diastolic heart failure.
The symptoms took a few months to subside once I went off of it. It was a hard six months before I was even back to where I was before that misadventure.
I'm not saying don't do it. I am saying that salt and vitamin C sound as harmless as a kitten -- but since every person with Lyme disease seems to be sick in his or her own special way, it's not safe for everyone.
Please tread carefully -- and stop the minute something goes sideways.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
That is interesting about the diastolic heart failure. A friend of mine who was taking antibiotics for several months had the same exact thing happen to him.
His LLMD didn't think it was from the antibiotics but from the Lyme disease itself. His doctor also said it could be age related among other things. So it is not necessarily caused by the antibiotics or the salt.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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I do not claim to have talked to every LLMD there is regarding this protocol.
But..... I have talked to one who in fact has suggested this protocol because she does have some patients who have seen much improvement.
At the same time she has had patients who didn't notice a difference.
Posts: 258 | From San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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glm1111
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posted
Hi Fancy,
How are you doing? Sorry to hear you are still salt sensitive. Glad to hear that you are taking some salt to keep the critters at bay. Have you been able to tolerate herbs at all?
Sent you pm yesterday, don't know if you got it. Have you tried antibiotics? Hope you find the right combo for yourself.
Gael
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Really excellent info on salt and C. Thanks for posting. How long have you been on the salt/c? A lot of good reading.
Thanks again,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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I tried Salt/C for a couple of months years ago and gave up as it made no difference to my symtoms. As with any protocol abx etc there are dangers and risks involved but I never considered it espechially dangerous. Just not universally effective!!!
its unfortunate that people advocating it are selling e books as that gives the protocol not the right image!
That said I do think drinking enough pure water is important. How much is enough? I kinda agree with Dr Robert O young when he says you should aim for 1 litre of water for every 30lbs of body weight. Thats my personal innovation!
However since then I have had cavational surgery on my jaw and got my teeth sorted out and I have just restared the salt/C protocol and this time I do feel a difference!!
I am on 20 g of celtic salt and also take 4g of effeversent Vit C. I know that is a low amout of vit C but its my preference. I take a little clay and charcoal for mopping up the toxins.
posted
One criteria for chronic lymies:cfs is it affordable and it meets that test!!!
One has to be able to afford abx for years on end etc!!!!
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Hi Wallace,
I am on the salt/c protocol since May 2006. It has saved my life along with antiparasitic herbs. I am also on 20 gms of Real Salt and 20 gms Ester C powder in divided doses. Glad you tried it again and it is working for you.
For anyone wanting to try this, it is VERY important that you ramp up slowly and drink plenty of water. Lots of info on lymenet about salt/c by going to the search bar and typing in salt/c.
You can visit lymestrategies to join the group that is doing salt/c and other therapy. You don't have to buy the e-book on it.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Every once in a while you get someone on here who says Salt/C can cause this problem or that problem.
What a riot!
Yet there are people who take multiple antibiotics in high doses for ungodly periods of time and that's supposed to be the accepted thing to do, right?
Just take a look at one such antibiotic in the arsenal against bartonella, Levaquin, which is a fluoroquinolone. Have you ever googled fluoroquinolones and Levaquin?
Let's not even deal with the hundreds of petty side effects like DNA damage and popping tendons that Levaquin can cause. Let's get right down to how many people who have been reported to have freakin' DIED as a direct result of taking the stuff:
The following is from Wikipedia:
quote:Associated fatalities: A significant number of fatalities have been associated with this class. Trovan (Trovafloxacin), Raxar (Grepafloxacin), Omniflox (Temafloxacin), and most recently Tequin (Gatifloxacin) have all been removed from clinical use due to such fatalities. Within the latest ADR summaries for Levaquin, Floxin, Cipro, Avelox, and Factive obtained under the freedom of information act from the FDA (December 2008) [183] there are 2,661 total death outcomes by case:
1038 to be found within the Ciprofloxacin (Cipro) summary,[184] 944 to be found within the Levofloxacin (Levaquin) summary,[185] 337 to be found within the Moxifloxacin (Avelox) summary,[186] 335 to be found within the Floxin (Ofloxacin) summary,[187] 7 to be found within the Gemifloxacin (Factive) summary.[188]
944 deaths!! from Levaquin, second only to Cipro, which I believe some docs prescribe for Lyme patients as well.
Yet some doctors, and abx advocates on this board have a conniption when you mention Salt/C, citing rare cases when someone with a preexisting condition had a blood pressure problem with it, or a heart problem, whatever.
And rx drugs have the advantage of a doctor prescribing them which means they can ensure that the patient follows all the rules of an established protocol.
Salt/C is like the wild, wild west, in that when a person starts to undergo the therapy, they're on their own. They don't have anyone monitoring them to make sure that they are not taking too much or the wrong proportions of the stuff or not drinking enough water, or perhaps taking drugs with contraindications. But even with these disadvantages, Salt/C is still a million times safer than pharmaceuticals.
Give me a break. If the medical profession would embrace Salt/C and perform clinical trials to determine exactly who is at risk and what the real risks are, I'm sure it would prove that Salt/C is a million times safer than any pharmaceutical drug out there.
But of course they won't do that because drug companies can not patent salt, or vitamin C. Furthermore, it's cheap and readily available in infinite supply, so they can't find a way to make huge profits on it.
This is where our government should step in and pay for such trials. But they won't do that. Thanks to the corruption caused by the drug lobby, the govt. is in bed with the big pharma and they do everything they can to protect their windfall profit making, rather than do what we pay them to do: protect the public.
The way I see it, any time someone comes on here and tries to say that Salt/C should be avoided because it's not safe, that person's name should be inked right in to everyone's "no credibility" list.
I'm sure there are plenty of trolls out there from the medical community who try to scare people away from inexpensive non-drug treatments like Salt/C. I'm not going to pay them any mind.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
chaps,
Thanks for researching and taking the time to post such informative material. Just a reminder that we can't be like sheep led to slaughter and sometimes using common sense and taking the reins of control over our own health and doing our own research can lead us out of this nightmare.
Sea salt is the closest to our own body saline. The first thing we are given in the ER is saline.
Doing this protocol slowly and drinkiing plenty of water can be VERY effective against these bugs.
Gael
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posted
Anyone here using the San Francisco Salt Company?
I went to their website. They sell the Himilayan Salt at better prices than I could find anywhere else.
I haven't started Salt/C yet, but I would like to at some point. I just had my amalgam fillings out and also had a root canal tooth removed (YAY!)
I'd like to get my body excreting mercury and get some of that out of my system before embarking on Salt/C because if I'm not mistaken, if Salt/C kills a lot of borrelia in the brain that is sequestering mercuy, this might free up a lot of mercury to float around and I want to be sure I can get rid of it rather than let more of it settle in the body.
I just removed a source of exposure to mercury, I don't want to counteract that by freeing up more of it.
I don't know if my theory is correct, but that's where I'm at right now.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
chaps,
I use Real Salt (sea salt) and really like it. I buy it at vitacost for approx $7 for 26oz bag. Have you tried any antiparasitic herbs?
Both salt/c and these herbs have been lethal to Lyme, bart, babs and erlichia. It takes a while, but persistence is key, and staying on these protocols have been KEY for me.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Hello, Im a friend of Wallace, and I would like to know if salt/vit c protocol is safe. As salt is said to increase breast cancer and to be contraindicated for breasts. Very important question for me. Thanks a lot . Is there any research you can cite?
And how much water should you drink without putting too much strain on your kidneys? Laura
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
The best place to go for answers to your questions is lymestrategies. These are the people that do the salt/c protocol.
Marc Fett the owner of the web site should be able to give you more insight on this.
I never heard of salt being contraindicated for breast cancer. There is a big difference in the use of TABLE SALT and SEA SALT however.
I can only tell you that since using the sea salt and herbs, I have had infection come out of my breasts as well as under my breasts due to Lyme.
If you do the salt/c protocol it is VERY important to start slowly. I started with 1/4 tsp each of salt and 1/4 tsp of C in a large glass of water and drank extra water throughout the day.
I found the use of antiparasitic herbs equally important. Hulda Clark has a book called "The Cure For All Cancers" Of course this is not medical advice and you should check with your doctor.
Gael
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posted
I always thought salt/c was similar to having infusions of Quinton plasma which still goes on in France and elsewhere.
The following extract is a translation of the official listing for Quinton Marine Plasma in the 1975 edition of the French VIDAL. The VIDAL is the European equivalent of the American Physicians Desk Reference (PDR), which lists the accepted medicines, how they are to be applied and their side effects.
Subject: DICTIONNAIRE VIDAL 1975 - Historical Use Only.
FRENCH VIDAL MEDICAL DICTIONARY 1975
QUINTON MARINE PLASMA
Natural unheated seawater extracted from specific ocean coordinates.
Ampoules for injectable, drinkable and external use.
QUINTON MARINE PLASMA is available in three concentrations: 1. Isotonic: PLASMA DE QUINTON 2. Hypertonic: HYPERTONIC DE QUINTON and DUPLASE DE QUINTON
Composition
A sterile, apyrogenic dilution (pH 7.2) of seawater, prepared under aseptic conditionsby special processes without rise in temperature or exposure to electric potential or field in order to preserve its molecular balance and its character of an "alive medium".
Contains the 92 elements of the periodic table (all primary and trace minerals).
The seawater is extracted from a 10-meter depth (zone of solar penetration) under special conditions and locations, which ensure safety as for its purity.
The clear ampoules are pyrogen-free to insure that subcutaneous or intravenous injection of QUINTON MARINE PLASMA is painless and absorbed quickly.
Properties
Rene QUINTON showed, in 1904, that QUINTON MARINE PLASMA is identical physically, chemically, and physiologically to our interior milieu (extracellular fluid) and provides the optimum conditions for red blood corpuscles and leucocytes and other blood fractions.It is possible to replace the entire blood volume of an animal with QUINTON MARINE PLASMA without any disorders for the organism.
Mode of action
1. Regeneration of the internal milieu (extracellular fluid)
2. Remineralization of the body with a bioavailable, crystaloid form of the primary minerals
3. Recharging of the body with a bioavailable, synergistic form of the trace minerals (oligo-elements)
4. Some of the low concentration constituents provide a homeopathic mechanism for restoring homeostasis.
The first injections may cause a light reaction with excitation or mild fever, without any further symptoms.
Use and dosage guidelines for QUINTON MARINE PLASMA
1. As a subcutaneous or intravenous injectable.
2. Oral consumption.
3. For external usage (spray, compress, localised cleaning).
General rules of treatment
Ongoing dosages are variable following the treated affliction but it is essential to continue to maintain sufficient amounts known to obtain the "traditional" results of QUINTON MARINE PLASMA.
To start, except in severe toxicity and diarrhoea, use small amounts (2 injections of 10 ml, 2 of 20 ml), and increase gradually (30, 50, 80, 100 ml.). Finally, perform ten injections to the highest amount compatible with good intestinal functioning.
Too strong amounts for a given subject can bring a tendency to constipation.
Infants and young children: Subcutaneous injections under the scapula.
Adults: Subcutaneous injections in the buttock (ambulatory processing) or intravenous injection.
PARENTERAL APPLICATIONS
Acute Toxicity, Poisoning:
200 ml. morning and evening during one week then 200 ml per day the following week. Food could be taken again gradually an hour after the first injection. (In the event of vomiting, replace milk with PLASMA OF QUINTON, diluted 2:1 in pure spring water, until the milk is well tolerated).
Diarrhoea, Malnutrition:
6 injections of 10 ml, every other day. Continue with 6 injections of 30 ml to 50 ml. maximum. The treatment usually requires fifteen days to several months. Resume normal feeding as in the beginning of the treatment but divided into smaller more frequent meals.
Prenatal Care:
1. For the mother: Prevent morning sickness. 2. For the infant: Disappearance of physiological stress. Start at the beginning of the pregnancy and continue as long as practical using three to four injections of 20 ml per week. Increase the dose every 10 days up to 200 ml maximum, then continue with DUPLASE DE QUINTON.
Adult Enteritis, Constipation:
To return gradually to a normal feeding use 4 injections of 30 ml every 3 days, then 10 injections of 50ml to 200 ml, at the maximum, every three days.
DERMATOLOGICAL APPLICATIONS
Eczema, Hives, Allergies:
Preferably injecting small amounts more frequently according to the reaction of the patient.
Adults:6 injections of 20 to 50 ml, every three days then continue every two days.
Infants: 6 injections of 5 to 30 ml, every three days then continue every two days. Localised spraying.
Psoriasis:
Begin with small amounts and increase dose quickly to 100 to 200 ml or more, then continue with DUPLASE DE QUINTON. Localised spraying and washing with DUPLASE DE QUINTON will hasten the healing.
External Tuberculosis:
3 injections of 30 ml. every three days. Continue with 4 injections of 50 ml, then 10 injections of 100 ml. Apply bandages soaked with PLASMA DE QUINTON.
Solvent for Antibiotics:
Assures painless injections. Its light alkalinity makes it particularly effective for Streptomycin.
ORAL APPLICATIONS
Infants:
Digestive disorders, Malnutrition: 1 ampoule of 10 ml, 1/4 hour before feeding-bottles, 3 times per day.
Vomiting:
Alternate a feeding-bottle of milk and a feeding-bottle of PLASMA DE QUINTON diluted 2:1 in pure spring water, until the milk is well tolerated.
Anorexia:
1 ampoule of 5 to 10 ml, 1/4 hour before feeding-bottles, 3 or 4 times per day.
Adults General Use:
Digestive problems Anorexia. Rebalancing bioterrain. Finalising an injectable treatment. Typical doses: 1 ampoule of 20 ml, 1/4 hour before each meal. PLASMA DE QUINTON should be held in the mouth a short time before being swallowed.
EXTERNAL APPLICATION
Eczema:
Localised spraying on affected area.
Psoriasis, Burns, Sunburns, Sunstroke:
Spraying and prolonged localised washing will hasten the healing. Apply bandages or compresses soaked with DUPLASE DE QUINTON or repeated spraying as often as possible.
Rhinitis, Sinusitis:
1 ampoule of 5 ml in each nostril 3 or 4 times per day.
Aerosol Medication:
PLASMA DE QUINTON or DUPLASE DE QUINTON.
Climatic A�rosol:
DUPLASE DE QUINTON.
Packaging
Ampoules for injectable, drinkable and external use.
Reimbursed by Social Security.
Collectively, A.M.G.
Approved by the A.P.
Visa : NL 5.735.
LABORATOIRES QUINTON
20, Av. Andr�-Danglade-PESSAC, pr�s Bordeaux.
Direction Comerciale:
4, rue Barrault- PARIS (XIIIeme).
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posted
glm 20g of salt/c??? I thought I read you shouldn't go over 12...that's a LOT of salt/c!
I have been doing the salt/c for 6 or so months. I did go off for about 2 weeks somewhere in there but am back on. I worked my way up to 6g salt/c and that was as high as I got. I was also on abx and the herxing was horrid. I just felt like the bottom of a trash can ALL. THE. TIME.
Now, I am on 4g of salt/c and I feel good. I will possibly try to up that...or not, we'll see. I am definitely experiencing results...my skin crawls, I am constantly looking for the *source* as SURELY there is something crawling on me...
Another happy side effect of the salt...it helps your adrenals. I know that along with thyroid issues many of us have adrenal fatigue and REAL salt has been shown to help. One more reason I think that most people eventually feel better on it Posts: 206 | From In the shadow of a mountain | Registered: Feb 2011
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I think the parasite angle is important, we need to tackle that with herbs(which ones?) or charcoal etc. Crawling sensations indicate a problem that salt/c isnt resolving!!!
I am going to take charcoal twice a day from now on. W
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I thought I read you shouldn't go over 12...that's a LOT of salt/c!![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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