SForsgren
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posted
By far, one of the best and likely the best product I have ever used is Progurt from Progurt.com. This is a human-strain probiotic that you make into a yogurt and use daily.
For me, it increased energy even further, helped with vision, eliminated fungal issues, and improved overall circulation.
I've been rather impressed. Expensive, but thus far, quite worth it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Scott, what's in it?! _________________________________
What are the strains of bacteria in Progurt?
The strains of bacteria in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract, according to a Proprietary Formulation with Patents pending.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Can you make an allergen free version of it? Can it be made with almond milk instead of cow's milk?
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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SForsgren
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All the details are on the site I posted. They don't share which strains due to patents, etc.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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Has to be made with cow's milk but they find that most people do fine once made into a yogurt with the bacteria.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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Do they say where they isolated the strains?
I'd REALLY like to know what strains they are.
I'm not crazy about ingesting things when I don't know what they are or where they came from.
It DOES sound interesting though.
I just went back & re-read your post. This helped your VISION? That's really great!!!! Do you know by what mechanism?
I wish I knew more about it so that I could do some research.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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Contact the vendor.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Can you make it with a different yogurt maker?
I already make my own, using a "Yogourmet" maker, organic whole milk and "GI Pro Health" starter. I leave it in the maker for 24h so that all the lactose is fermented away.
I would be loath to buy a whole new system but I would consider trying the Progurt starter next time I need to buy new starter.
SForsgren
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Don't know. I use theirs. Their system is 70 dollars. Ask them - hopefully will be fine.
It isn't starter though with theirs- you have to keep using the sachets. It is expensive, but worth it I think
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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Relax Scott, please don't feel the need to be defensive with me. That's not what I was trying to say. I'm in relapse again so I may not be communicating my thoughts accurately.
Thank you for sharing your experience and I'm GLAD to hear that you've been finding it helpful.
I haven't been on my computer for months & am totally out of the loop. This is the first I've heard "Progurt" mentioned.
I just did a quick "google" and see that there seems to be a lot of talk about it. Especially on the MS forums.
It sounds like it's got potential. I'm just hoping that I wouldn't eat it & then find out that they cultured it from intestines because that would really be gross! LOL
I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and, if it resolved the neuro-issues, I would think that the benefit should outweigh the ICK factor.
I just can't help but wonder, since they don't seem to want to say where it comes from, if that COULD be the source.
Perhaps it's just my lyme-paranioia and it's purely proprietary secrecy......
If you find my sharing of my thoughts upsetting, I'll refrain and just keep them to myself. I certainly am not looking to stir up trouble.
I find it very frustrating that I have come to feel like I have to walk on eggshells any time I have a curiousity about anything that might vary from the mainstream. I remember now, THAT was why I had been avoiding reading anything CAM that looked like it might be interesting.
I have felt like I have to avoid reading ANY complementary/alternative posts to avoid stress and possible confrontation and I am definitely NOT anti-complementary/alternative.
I don't know whether your post was intended to be construed as hostile, but that is definitely how I first interpreted it.
If it was, it worked. I've felt hurt, defensive and even somewhat hostile myself, in trying to compose a reply just to try to clarify that I wasn't trying to be hostile in my previous post.
What a colossal waste of my time and energy all because I shared a thought.
I don't know why I've gotten myself sucked into this outpouring of emotion, but I have. I guess it probably has to do with my relapse.
Am I just being hypersensitive myself? Maybe.
Perhaps you hadn't intended to come off as rude & abrupt and I just misinterpreted. If that's the case, I apologize for the tantrum.
Nonetheless, I'm sure this is likely MY problem not yours and I'm guessing that right now avoidance is likely the safest measure for me.
Wishing you wellness, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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I see you had already deleted the post that I found upsetting, so much of my post now makes no sense, but I'm too drained to try to edit right now.
Thank you for deleting it.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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It is cultured from intestines I suspect. So if that grosses anyone out and they would rather not benefit from the product, this product is likely not for you.
Most likely, the isolate the bacteria initially and then after that, they are grown in labs.
Do you know where they get half of the other probiotics on the market? Probably best not to look.
I was rather hoping that they were cultured from soil organisms or something.
They've been culturing yogurt for a very long time. I'd REALLY rather NOT believe that the practice may have originated with some form of waste product or avenue of it's excretion.
If that's the case, PALLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE DON'T TELL ME!!!!!! In some cases, perhaps ignorance is bliss. Maybe I don't really want to know where the Progurt cultures come from either.
Now I'm going to have to see if I can find out where yogurt cultures really come from.
I wish I'd never thought about this because I can't imagine what I'd do if I found out something I didn't really want to know.
Maybe I should try to walk away & hope that my lyme-memory issues will make me forget that I was ever wondering about this. It could be safer for me that way.
I hope the OCD doesn't win out & make me look it up.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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How could "human strain" bacteria come from soil? Don't assume it's just Progurt. Look at all your supps, probiotics, etc. You'll likely find lots of surprises.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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I caught the "human strain" verbage. That's what made me think that it was different than the others in that aspect.
Perhaps that would be the reason it might actually be more beneficial, but that is what inspired my heebie-jeebies. LOL
There's a chart in there that lists probiotics that were actually proven effective in studies.
There's something in there about deaths with intestinal delivery in people with pancreatitis. That was something I didn't know about.
Also I think one recorded death in a critically-ill patient. I have to go back & read that again. I didn't think (recall) that probiotic use had any risks, though they seem to be few.
I also read that, once the probiota has been COMPLETELY depleted, it can not be repopulated with probiotic supplements and consumption would need to be maintained without discontinuance.
I thought that was VERY interesting. I wonder if they've tried actual repopulation with "human-strain" yet.
I think it would be worth overcoming the ICK-factor, if it could. I'm sure the cultures must be long-removed from their original source by now.....don't you think?
Sometimes my mind works in very strange ways.
Funny thing, I just felt compelled to go get some yogurt out of the refrigerator.
I think I'll have to go back and read more about the Progurt.
It's expensive, you said? Can you keep cultivating it from the yogurt you've already made or would you have to keep buying more of it?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Thanks for sharing your experience of Progurt, and glad to hear you're getting a lot of benefit from it, it sounds interesting. Are you saying that it is likely the best pro-biotic yoghurt you have ever tried or were you talking about supplements in general?
Also I was just wondering what other probiotics have you tried? Have you ever tried kefir and if so does the progurt compare favourably to that too, in your experience?
Thanks a lot.
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AliG
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I think you may be having too much fun grossing me out. LOL
I think I'm over it now, though.
I'm still not going to read my probiotic bottles to see if I hadn't made a previous correlation to the term "human-strain"!!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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You cannot keep making from what you have made according to the company.
It is likely the best supplement in general that I have ever tried.
I've tried all of the major probiotics along the way. A long, long list. Done kefir also. No comparison.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I've tried at least 10-15 different brands through the years, and Progurt has so far been the strongest. Dare I say, a probiotic gave me a herx.
Also I think that the price of Progurt matches the philosophy: instead of merely being a complement to other supplements or a buffer to antibiotics, the high-dose human strain is intended to be a primary treatment in and of itself. Also, 1 trillion CFU for 20 bucks comes out to $0.02 per 1 billion CFU. That comes out to $1/50 billion CFU, which is slightly more than the cost of other probiotics.. except it is the only human-strain probiotic I am aware. The cost makes sense to me.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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So far, I am also testing allergy-free to the Progurt.. this despite being "allergic" to milk. The vendor told me all the casein becomes denatured & the all lactose is converted to lactase during the incubation process. I have had some digestive problems after taking it, but they've dwindled down now and seem to be a result of gut repair.
I add it to museli/cereal/blueberries/cranberries and it tastes great!! I also add this multiglycidic syrup that acts as a prebiotic... who knew something this sweet could be so helpful, candida be damned!
It's really weird taking a supplement and feeling slightly indulgent at the same time..
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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I believe the initial reaction i had was so severe because my biggest problem right now, says my doc, is fungus. The bombardment with probiotics during the first few days must've given the fungus a field day. Will see tomorrow if my doc finds a change w/r/t fungal infections
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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"You cannot keep making from what you have made according to the company."
Why would this be true?
Any other yogurt can be started using a sample, Kefir using the same grains. Why would "human GI bacteria" be any different?
What am I missing here?
I mean, suppose you only get half-a-trillion organisms per quart -- would that be the end of the world?
Or do none of the bugs make it through.
Has anyone tested this?
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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Call the company and ask. Just sharing my positive experience. I'll leave the rest to you all to do more research.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Rumigirl
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Scott,
This sounds wonderful! I trust your experience on this. How long have you been using it? How fast did you see results? And did you then reduce other supplements and remedies due to the good effects of the Progurt?
Lastly, if you had it all to do over again, would you go primarily with the Progurt, Bionic 880, and related modalities as opposed to abx? (I know this may be a difficult question, considering that it is hypothetical). Thank you, and sorry for so many questions!
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SForsgren
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I saw some results within the first few days. I have not cut down yet, in fact, recently added more detox support.
I can't comment yet on the last question. Maybe in the future I'll have more thoughts about it but I don't want to suggest that antibiotics are not needed in some cases.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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At the loading dose that I used, it ran about 600 for the first month and then tapers down to as low as 60 dollars a month.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Thanks Scott and Joey....
Wow, that IS pretty pricey....
I assume you got this by ordering directly from the Progurt website (in Australia)?
Also, I did note that you can use goat's milk or soy milk, according to the website. It specifies 'sterile' milks, so not sure if raw goat's or cow's milk would be a good idea or not. They might have to say 'sterile' for legal reasons....
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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It doesn't work as well with non-cow milk per the company when I spoke with them on the phone. They suggest organic cow's milk.
I called them and placed the order via phone.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Thank you Scott and Joey for sharing your experiences. I am following your blogs with interest!
I'm a firm believer in the gut-brain connection. I know when I accidentally eat something that doesn't agree with me (such as gluten), my neuro symptoms flare with a vengeance. It makes sense to me that a product like this might work.
I'm very intrigued by Progurt's claims but think I want to wait a bit before trying it myself. 600 USD per month is a bit rich for me right now...
quote:The Progurt Sachet is the world's most powerful probiotic available.
Each Sachet contains a formulation of multiple strains of probiotic bacteria of human origin to enhance and strengthen the immune system. With over 1 trillion CFU capability in each single Progurt Sachet, bacteria never looked so good.
Each sachet can be made into a powerful probiotic yogurt or can be consumed with water.
Progurt improves health and wellbeing. Progurt initiates balance of gut flora - improving digestion, nutrition and absorption, ultimately strengthening your immune system. Increase energy and nutritional support to every living cell in your body - feel and look better than ever before.
Progurt is guaranteed 100% natural with no artificial flavours, colours or preservatives.
I thought perhaps that might be a more cost effective alternative, rather than going the "whole package" route.
I wonder if it would be more cost effective to put the contents of the sachet into capsules and perhaps divide into doses.
I wonder why they don't sell it in capsule form.....
I don't see any pricing for the sachets. Did they give you pricing for just the sachets when you ordered or received the initial package, Scott?
****warning - I'm grossing myself out again don't read this if my thought process is annoying you****
I just came across this in the FAQs when I was trying to figure out where I read about swallowing the sachet contents with water:
quote:Can I make fresh Progurt, using already-made Progurt as the starter culture?
No. Fresh Progurt cannot be made using already-made Progurt as a starter culture. The strains of bacteria contained in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract and will not replicate.
I'm now wondering if that would mean that they can't cultivate it in a lab and must somehow harvest it from human instestines or fecal matter.
THEY CAN'T DO THAT RIGHT?!!!!(please tell me they can't do that!)
If they won't replicate, how could they repopulate? How could they culture the yogurt to begin with if they can't replicate?
If it's a growing bacterial culture, then shouldn't contamination of a fresh milk sample by bacteria from a previous batch result in the bacteria then growing in the contaminated milk?
If it's not growing in the first batch, what would be the point of putting it in there?
I'm having WAY too much trouble getting a handle on this.
Can anyone help me figure out how it's possible to not be able to make yogurt out of bacteria that won't replicate? There must be something about the yogurt-making process or bacterial growth that I don't understand.
I have to see if there's an e-mail contact there that I can ask for an explanation, unless someone else can help me understand this.
The whole idea of using strains that are naturally found in the human intestinal tract makes great sense to me.
Knowing how important the intestinal flora is to the immune system, I would think that being able to repopulate our beneficial bacteria with strains that belong there would be of immense benefit.
I think its great that they've found a way to actually re-establish intestinal probiota, once it's been completely depleted, besides feeding people human excrement.
I just can't seem to connect all the dots in my head as to how this works. Maybe I need to take a break and come back to this later. My head is swimming right now.
I'm sorry that I have this OCD need to try to fully understand every little thing. I realize that it sometimes annoys other people.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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when you put the satchets in the milk and finish incubating, the 100 billion CFU becomes 1 trillion. It is clearly not more cost-effective to just down the satchets
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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I personally would not take the sachets as the normal course of use. They are 20 dollars each and I think it is much better to take it after fermented.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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If you don't believe in energetic med please feel free to ignore the rest of my post.
When I first told my energetic doc about the price of the product, she thought it was quite outrageous too. Well, I brought in the progurt for her to test yesterday, and she said it tested very very strong for me. Also, she thought I'd be allergic to the milk used for fermenting and had told me to use almond milk, but upon testing said I wasn't allergic to the final product. I'm not sure if everyone would tolerate it, but I know I'm definitely allergic to dairy products so it seems the progurt nutritionist was right abuot the fermentation process completely denaturing the milk casein proteins and converting lactose 100% to lactase.
As for the therapeutic effect: last week, she said my fungal infections stood at 50% of what they were when I first saw her a year ago. I told her I think I experienced a yeast die-off from the progurt, so she tested me again and said it had dropped another 50% to 25%. Within 1 week. This prompted her to test my other major infections (Bb, babs, HHV-6, myco etc) and she said most of them had also dropped in percentage. Within 1 week. I think the only other thing I've tried that has worked to this extent is the bionic, but that didn't seem to work as universally and had a pronounced effect on mainly one infection at a time.
She is now interested in the product and thinks it may actually be worth the price. She thinks the product is stimulating GALT--gut associated lymphoid tissue, where 70% of the immune system is thought to reside.
I have found her muscle-testing to incredibly precise and consistent. At the least, I think this is a huge piece to the immune response puzzle.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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AliG
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Why then couldn't more be made from a starter batch?
Did anyone find out if ANY yogurt machine would suffice or if it could be made in the "old-fashioned" way, if someone was so inclined or if their incubator specifically needs to be purchased?
*********************** edited to add:
I just e-mailed them the following questions, I'll post their response when I hear back:
quote:Is there something that makes your incubator different or would one be able to use the sachets with another yogurt maker?
If "The strains of bacteria contained in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract and will not replicate", how is it possible to grow the culture from the sachets and to repopulate the gastrointestinal tract by ingestion?
I'd really love to believe that this can help me and to find a fairly cost-effective means to utilize it. I hope they can clear up my confusion on this.
I could really use some help right now with getting yeast back in check and I'd LOVE to have something capable of actual repopulation of my intestinal flora that wouldn't interfere with all of the other stuff I'm taking.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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alig... please contact the nutritionist. He is very open to answering any questions you may have about the product, and will likely answer it better than any of us here as he has been developing this product for gawd knows how long and has researched the effects of it for the last 5 years.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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AliG
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I guess I must have added what I had just e-mailed them, while you were posting your suggestion.
Do you know if that's who would answer the e-mail?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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I would go to the contact info, and skype him if you can. You'll get to him much faster that way
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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Just Skype or call. It's pretty easy either way.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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I'm Skype ignorant & too tired to look it up. What's Skype?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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AliG, if you are interested in the product, make the effort to find out more. I think people have shared enough here. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the product and that is fine.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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"AliG, if you are interested in the product, make the effort to find out more. I think people have shared enough here. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the product and that is fine."
People have shared enough??
What does that mean?
Maybe you feel you have shared enough, and that's fine. Stop sharing. But I'm with Ali; there are many questions about this stuff. It may be the best thing in the world, I have no idea about that. As far as I can see, the only thing that has been shared so far, other than the website, is that a few people have used it and loved and gotten great results.
That's great. But it really doesn't answer any of the questions asked, nor does it explain exactly how the product works, and whether or not there may be any risks to taking so huge a load of unknown bacteria at one time.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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If you have questions beyond what has been shared, please call the company. They have a phone number. People call them all the time. It's much easier and more expedient for you to call them and get the answers from them directly. People that are sharing their experiences here are using the product, not experts.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm glad you're doing so well on this. If it would help my gut that would be wonderful. But I am overly cautious at this point.
Are you at all worried that introducing 1/2 trillion unknown bacteria may be dangerous?
Is it real healing going on, or possibly some sort of palliation that may have consequences later on down the road?
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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Dangerous in what way? People take probiotics all the time. I suspect this is just lack of information.
Why are people so worried about probiotics? Don't you take them all the time? This is just a better one.
Do you know how many trillion bacteria are already in you?
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think the fact that this bombardment of good bacteria is actually causing such a drastic immune response is just evidence of how badly our gut has become damaged due to our lifestyle/diet. I thought I had a relatively healthy diet prior to getting sick, rarely eating fast food and no dairy products, but have you seen that youtube where due to preservatives, fast food looks the same a few months late as it did when it was first made? That stuff simply does not leave the body. Not only that, but eating meat, organic or not, that is necessarily putrefied due to transport times and--if not organic--injected with antibiotics means we've been slowly reversing the ratio of good to bad bacteria over the entire course of our lives. Our bodies/digestive enzymes simply have not adapted to the rapid industrialization of food that's occurred in the last century.
The 1 trillion CFU does sound worrisome and drastic, but maybe that's just the amount that some of us need to return our GALT and gut to normalcy.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Abxnomore
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I've been doing alternative nutrition and seeing alternative M.D.s since l986. It's news to me that any one can be taking too many probiotics of any kind.
It looks like a very good product. What's all the controversy about. If you are interested in it
call the company and learn about it. If you are not, move on. You would be hard pressed to find any one who has too much beneficial flora in their system especially folks like us who take tons of ABX and anti fungals.
How much longer do we need to drag this out. Use a search engine and do some research if you want to learn more about not only this product but how probiotics work and what they do. Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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SForsgren
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The particular strains, etc. in the product are proprietary. The company will not share that information and if that is a pre-requisite for using the product, then this is not the right product for you.
However, for those willing to unlearn and learn new things, this product might be worth a good look.
I just ordered my third month supply of the product because I feel like it is supporting my body in a way it has never before been supported. There is something about this product that is very special.
As for trying to make new batches from old batches, the company says this could be dangerous. This is a human strain probiotic which means that it is not used to replicating in a fluid that comes from a cow. Thus, it only replicates well in the human - where it originated from.
They also cautioned that other bacteria that you may not want could get into the milk and over time, you may ferment organisms that are not supportive of health as I understood.
As for using their device to make it, this is NOT yogurt. This is a special product and the temperature that they use is important to creating the most beneficial end product possible. So for the 70 dollars, I would not risk using another yogurt machine.
It is NOT a transient probiotic. Thus, it generally takes 9-13 months to fully balance the gut and then only small, occasional doses might be helpful to reinforce the soldiers already at work.
This product restores the body to the point that eventually, the body no longer needs it.
If I calculate the cost with this in mind, it seems like a bargain.
I'm excited to see that Joey is having good results with it and expect that we will both continue to see improvements.
This is a good one.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Sounds like an interesting product... I have a few considerations, though.
1. If it's from "human" sources, why grow it in cow's milk? Why couldn't you use almond milk, rick milk, goat's milk, coconut milk, etc.? Seems like you should use human breast milk...
2. I found no studies about their product on Pubmed. All of the info is from their own website. I didn't see any 3rd party studies on their website or while doing a quick search on google. Maybe I missed them?
3. Can there be dangers from their culture. Many years ago, growth hormone was taken from cadavers. People requiring growth hormone took this form of growth hormone & developed serious illnesses. So, the "ick factor" is relevant.
4. If a strain becomes contaminated somehow - what might it do to one's body?
5. I'm a bit concerned that it may be a bio-engineered organism. I'm not sure what this may mean. How long has it been tested for safety?
6. When you know the particular strain - you can look it up & research it. With this - we don't know what it is & if there have been adequate studies on it.
7. It's kind of expensive to take a risk & wing it... I'm a bit wary of this product for the above reasons.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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SForsgren
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posted
1 - I don't know the answer except that it has to be fermented to be optimally beneficial. You can call and ask.
2 - I doubt there will be many studies on many natural options. I am not surprised. If you feel that the solution to your illness is on Pubmed, I hope you find it there.
3 - Anything in life is a risk. Many yogurts have probiotics that originate from bovine sources. Where do you think those come from? Where do you think the gelatin in most capsules comes from?
4 - Don't know. Do you ask the same of your other probiotics?
5 - Don't know. Do you ask the same of your other probiotics?
6 - They will not share the strain. Period. If you need that information, SOB (scroll on by).
7 - Life is about risks. You can take them or not. No one is asking anyone to take a risk that they are not comfortable with.
Time will tell.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: For me, it increased energy even further, helped with vision, eliminated fungal issues, and improved overall circulation.
Can you elaborate on what specifically has improved with you vision?
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
Clarity. Also seeing things differently when reading. Instead of reading a word at a time, I was seeing a line at a time - which is probably more brain function than eye function but sharpness and clarity were vision related.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
less blurriness, seeing things w'better contrast & more colors on my end
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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'Kete-tracker
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Member # 17189
posted
Scott,
You sound a bit like salesman on the defensive. I trust you aren't profiting form referring people to this company? Thanks for the product tip, though. I intend to check it out.
Nomoremuscles, I would agree w/ you that any probiotic SHOULD be able to grow & grow, if put in an appropriate medium... like the organic cow's milk the Co. suggests.
I just think the line about- "It isn't starter though with theirs- you have to keep using the sachets. It is expensive, but worth it I think" indicates the co. is trying to protect future profits. But if it's a great product, why not support it?
That's the way I feel about Gary's yoghurt- Stonyfield. He was my sister's classmate & teamed up w/ a friend to introduce a Hi-Q multi-strain yoghurt. After many years, it "flourished". He has now, of course, gone international (w/ a bunch o' help from the French company that bought them out!)
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
This is not a bovine product and thus, it does not behave the same was as yogurt. It is not yogurt.
Most probiotics are derived from bovine sources - this is not.
This company will be a big success because their product works.
I'm not going to try and convince people further. Try it or not. Your call.
And to be clear, I have no financial association with this company.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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heiwalove
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posted
it sounds awesome, but the proprietary aspect worries me as well.
thanks for sharing the product info, though -- maybe more people will try it and in time we'll have an accurate idea of its benefits.
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
There are other companies that have proprietary probiotics. It's not a new field. It's ripe for exploitation by people coming up with "new" proprietary strains that cure everything & cost a lot more than a probiotic should.
I'm very skeptical... Especially with descriptions like this -
"Most people experience almost immediate benefits from eating Progurt�. For healthy people it is a sense of increased awareness and wellbeing. For those with health problems there are often dramatic improvements in their condition."
There any many unknowns here. No 3rd party studies that I could find anywhere on google (not just PubMed)...
I've never heard of probiotics making one's eyesight better. That sounds a bit odd to me. If someone could explain why this might happen, I might be more apt to believe it.
I'm sure the people who mentioned this are taking a few different things that might influence their eyesight besides Progurt.
I think I'll stick with kefir, regular yogurt, coconut milk yogurt & Good Belly...
I'd like to hear how people are doing on it in 3-6 months from now. Time will tell if it's worthwhile. $700 a month is a bit steep for a probiotic with no scientific literature to back it up.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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troutscout
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posted
This stuff comes from Australia...how can it still be viable when it arrives?
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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Truthfinder
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Member # 8512
posted
Thanks much for the additional info, Scott and joey. A couple of questions for both of you about your personal daily `intake'.....
I believe I read on the website that an average daily dose was somewhere around 1/2 cup a day, so at that rate, a sachet would yield about 8 daily servings...... (correct me here if I misinterpreted).
1. Where did you hear about Progurt?
2. So, when you determined how much to use per day, was this based on information from the Progurt people, or was it based on energetic testing, or what exactly?
3. Could you elaborate a bit on how much you took in the beginning and for how long, and how much you expect to take per day for the next few months?
4. Did either of you try the `colon reflorastation' (refloridization) kit - rectal insertion of probiotics? http://www.myrealhealth.com/
Thanks.
``Indigenous' gut flora is interesting stuff..... I've read some about Bowel Nosodes (homeopathic), and these nosodes should definitely be taken or prescribed with care and professional guidance.... Like most other microbes, even gut flora can become pathogenic, and it does make some sense to re-populate the gut with friendly, functional microbes, and roust out the troublemakers.....
I'm always a bit hesitant about `proprietary' blends and processes, too, where virtually no data is available even from the company..... so thanks for `pioneering' this effort and reporting about what you experience.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
"If you feel that the solution to your illness is on Pubmed, then I hope you find it there."
That is a quote from SForsgren to sparkle7 regarding a question sparkle7 asked about the progurt product. I do not understand the condescending and somewhat sarcastic attitude displayed in the above response. Isn't discussing new info and ideas about ways to help us in our fight against Lyme what this forum is all about? If we can't ask legitimate questions or raise concerns, then what's the point??
-------------------- My comments on this site are not intended to be taken as medical advice as I'm not a physician. Posts: 206 | From Georgia | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
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posted
Truthfinder, to your specific questions:
1) I learned about Progurt from a practitioner that I was doing some emotional conflict work with. He and his wife were both using the product and he felt it was producing some remarkable results for them in a short time period.
2) I started with 1 liter a day and now do about .5 liter a day. After another month or so, I may go down to about .25 liters and probably stay at that for a year. Some go down to .1 liter. All depends. For those of us that have done antibiotics for so long like I did, I think it is important to repopulate the flora.
3) My dosage was based primarily on what the Progurt people suggested. And their product does energetically test amazingly well. I shared that with the company and they said they get that feedback often.
4) I did not try the specific implant kit that you mention but I have done others in the past.
5) I understand concerns over proprietary blends and how it would be nice to know more about what was in the product, but it seems to work and it doesn't seem to concern me as much. There are so many stories of great success with the product that I felt it was worth a try. The endorsement from another practitioner also peaked my interest.
Best
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
The product comes in sealed sachets and then is made into a yogurt-like substance in an incubator. There is no problem with shipping it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Scott and Joey, did either of you make any changes to your diet when you introduced Progurt?
I have been googling Progurt + Multiple Sclerosis on the 'net and I notice that several MS patients who used it (and who were seemingly having good results) were also following a strict diet in conjunction.
Avoidance of beef and chicken (because of the bacteria they contain) was mentioned as part of their regimen. I'm just trying to figure out if this dietary advice came from the manufacturer or their own practitioner.
SForsgren
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posted
I did not change my diet other than I am being better about not eating junk food because I started using the Nintendo Wii and it kept telling me I needed to stop... Oops.
I have not had too much dialog with the manufacturer on the topic of diet and I talk with them about every 3-7 days. They have a great support team there that checks on how you are doing, suggests how to modify things to make the product work for you, etc. Very bright folks.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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"I have rapidly worsening secondary progressive MS and am in a wheelchair.
By the time I found Progurt (the Australian type in the sachets), I was worsening by the day and the meds were making me incredibly sick.
The maker of Progurt (in Australia) is named Robert Bison, an absolutely wonderful man who, I believe, saved my life.
It came with a cost though.
I had to do exactly as he said; extreme diet; exercise (which was almost impossible at the time), throw out most medicines, etc., etc.
The outcome: I lost 90 lbs., I ride a recumbant bike for 20 mins. a night; I can wear shoes again; I go out again (still in a wheelchair, but feeling good).
I did not have a full recovery, but I believe I am in good condition now; not sick and not afraid.
While I am not on Progurt any longer and while I believe the regime requires a huge committment, for me, it was worth it and I will always be grateful to Robert Beson for his product and the time he invested in me."
"My brother has been diagnosed with MS 8 years ago. He became completely disabled and could not even feed himself anymore.
A friend of the family gave him 5 sukets of progurt to put in his mouth and drink with water.
In just a few minutes He started feeling better and stronger and 6 days later, I received the greatest b- day gift
- MY BROTHER gained control of his hands and was able to eat and drink all by himself.
This might not mean a big deal to others but to me, it was a miracle.
We just received our first shipment of progurt and after taking 3 more suckets with water, on the next day, my brother gave me the greatest news
- he was able to pick himself up from the wheelchair and stand on his own two feet for about a minute and a half while holding on to the granite countertop -
something he hasn't been able to do in a very long time.
Every day to us as a family is a miracle and we can't wait to see what he'll be able to do next.
I give God the glory for sending this treatment our way when we lost ALL hope, and thank him for the people that freely gave those trial sukets of progurt...
We are also very greatful for the people from Australia who make him feel as he'd be the only patient they have to deal with.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Robert is who I speak with as well and he is a very sharp guy. Doesn't believe so much in Lyme disease or disease in general I suspect but more in balance and giving the body what it needs to be healthy.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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2. The dose was first determined by Robert, who is both the founder and nutritionist available for consult during his office hours. Then it was confirmed by energetic testing, both my own and my energetic doc's
3. I've only been on it for a week,so I'm still at the full liter.
4. My energetic doc told me about this, but haven't tried this no.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
With regards to diet, the reason they don't want you on protein is because of antibiotic injections which would compete with the good bacteria. I am surprisingly fine with this, because at my current dose of progurt I am rarely hungry. Even after adding fruit and sweetened cereal to the progurt, my fungal infections have gone done. When I am hungry, I just snack on vegetables, fruit, maybe a slice or 2 of brown rice bread.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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i have no doubt as to the healing power of good bacteria. this is impressive feedback coming from you in that i know you have used many probiotic substances. very interesting feedback also from the m.s. community.
i would appreciate knowing if your comparison of progurt to kefir is based on that made from real (live) grains (at home), or commercially made kefir?
from there i will research the product further as my young daughter (age 7) is having serious gut problems from a course of abx.
thanks kindly, mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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