SForsgren
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posted
By far, one of the best and likely the best product I have ever used is Progurt from Progurt.com. This is a human-strain probiotic that you make into a yogurt and use daily.
For me, it increased energy even further, helped with vision, eliminated fungal issues, and improved overall circulation.
I've been rather impressed. Expensive, but thus far, quite worth it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Scott, what's in it?! _________________________________
What are the strains of bacteria in Progurt?
The strains of bacteria in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract, according to a Proprietary Formulation with Patents pending.
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Can you make an allergen free version of it? Can it be made with almond milk instead of cow's milk?
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SForsgren
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All the details are on the site I posted. They don't share which strains due to patents, etc.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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Has to be made with cow's milk but they find that most people do fine once made into a yogurt with the bacteria.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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Do they say where they isolated the strains?
I'd REALLY like to know what strains they are.
I'm not crazy about ingesting things when I don't know what they are or where they came from.
It DOES sound interesting though.
I just went back & re-read your post. This helped your VISION? That's really great!!!! Do you know by what mechanism?
I wish I knew more about it so that I could do some research.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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posted
Contact the vendor.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Can you make it with a different yogurt maker?
I already make my own, using a "Yogourmet" maker, organic whole milk and "GI Pro Health" starter. I leave it in the maker for 24h so that all the lactose is fermented away.
I would be loath to buy a whole new system but I would consider trying the Progurt starter next time I need to buy new starter.
SForsgren
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Don't know. I use theirs. Their system is 70 dollars. Ask them - hopefully will be fine.
It isn't starter though with theirs- you have to keep using the sachets. It is expensive, but worth it I think
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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Relax Scott, please don't feel the need to be defensive with me. That's not what I was trying to say. I'm in relapse again so I may not be communicating my thoughts accurately.
Thank you for sharing your experience and I'm GLAD to hear that you've been finding it helpful.
I haven't been on my computer for months & am totally out of the loop. This is the first I've heard "Progurt" mentioned.
I just did a quick "google" and see that there seems to be a lot of talk about it. Especially on the MS forums.
It sounds like it's got potential. I'm just hoping that I wouldn't eat it & then find out that they cultured it from intestines because that would really be gross! LOL
I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and, if it resolved the neuro-issues, I would think that the benefit should outweigh the ICK factor.
I just can't help but wonder, since they don't seem to want to say where it comes from, if that COULD be the source.
Perhaps it's just my lyme-paranioia and it's purely proprietary secrecy......
If you find my sharing of my thoughts upsetting, I'll refrain and just keep them to myself. I certainly am not looking to stir up trouble.
I find it very frustrating that I have come to feel like I have to walk on eggshells any time I have a curiousity about anything that might vary from the mainstream. I remember now, THAT was why I had been avoiding reading anything CAM that looked like it might be interesting.
I have felt like I have to avoid reading ANY complementary/alternative posts to avoid stress and possible confrontation and I am definitely NOT anti-complementary/alternative.
I don't know whether your post was intended to be construed as hostile, but that is definitely how I first interpreted it.
If it was, it worked. I've felt hurt, defensive and even somewhat hostile myself, in trying to compose a reply just to try to clarify that I wasn't trying to be hostile in my previous post.
What a colossal waste of my time and energy all because I shared a thought.
I don't know why I've gotten myself sucked into this outpouring of emotion, but I have. I guess it probably has to do with my relapse.
Am I just being hypersensitive myself? Maybe.
Perhaps you hadn't intended to come off as rude & abrupt and I just misinterpreted. If that's the case, I apologize for the tantrum.
Nonetheless, I'm sure this is likely MY problem not yours and I'm guessing that right now avoidance is likely the safest measure for me.
Wishing you wellness, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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I see you had already deleted the post that I found upsetting, so much of my post now makes no sense, but I'm too drained to try to edit right now.
Thank you for deleting it.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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It is cultured from intestines I suspect. So if that grosses anyone out and they would rather not benefit from the product, this product is likely not for you.
Most likely, the isolate the bacteria initially and then after that, they are grown in labs.
Do you know where they get half of the other probiotics on the market? Probably best not to look.
I was rather hoping that they were cultured from soil organisms or something.
They've been culturing yogurt for a very long time. I'd REALLY rather NOT believe that the practice may have originated with some form of waste product or avenue of it's excretion.
If that's the case, PALLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE DON'T TELL ME!!!!!! In some cases, perhaps ignorance is bliss. Maybe I don't really want to know where the Progurt cultures come from either.
Now I'm going to have to see if I can find out where yogurt cultures really come from.
I wish I'd never thought about this because I can't imagine what I'd do if I found out something I didn't really want to know.
Maybe I should try to walk away & hope that my lyme-memory issues will make me forget that I was ever wondering about this. It could be safer for me that way.
I hope the OCD doesn't win out & make me look it up.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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How could "human strain" bacteria come from soil? Don't assume it's just Progurt. Look at all your supps, probiotics, etc. You'll likely find lots of surprises.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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I caught the "human strain" verbage. That's what made me think that it was different than the others in that aspect.
Perhaps that would be the reason it might actually be more beneficial, but that is what inspired my heebie-jeebies. LOL
There's a chart in there that lists probiotics that were actually proven effective in studies.
There's something in there about deaths with intestinal delivery in people with pancreatitis. That was something I didn't know about.
Also I think one recorded death in a critically-ill patient. I have to go back & read that again. I didn't think (recall) that probiotic use had any risks, though they seem to be few.
I also read that, once the probiota has been COMPLETELY depleted, it can not be repopulated with probiotic supplements and consumption would need to be maintained without discontinuance.
I thought that was VERY interesting. I wonder if they've tried actual repopulation with "human-strain" yet.
I think it would be worth overcoming the ICK-factor, if it could. I'm sure the cultures must be long-removed from their original source by now.....don't you think?
Sometimes my mind works in very strange ways.
Funny thing, I just felt compelled to go get some yogurt out of the refrigerator.
I think I'll have to go back and read more about the Progurt.
It's expensive, you said? Can you keep cultivating it from the yogurt you've already made or would you have to keep buying more of it?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Thanks for sharing your experience of Progurt, and glad to hear you're getting a lot of benefit from it, it sounds interesting. Are you saying that it is likely the best pro-biotic yoghurt you have ever tried or were you talking about supplements in general?
Also I was just wondering what other probiotics have you tried? Have you ever tried kefir and if so does the progurt compare favourably to that too, in your experience?
Thanks a lot.
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AliG
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I think you may be having too much fun grossing me out. LOL
I think I'm over it now, though.
I'm still not going to read my probiotic bottles to see if I hadn't made a previous correlation to the term "human-strain"!!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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You cannot keep making from what you have made according to the company.
It is likely the best supplement in general that I have ever tried.
I've tried all of the major probiotics along the way. A long, long list. Done kefir also. No comparison.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I've tried at least 10-15 different brands through the years, and Progurt has so far been the strongest. Dare I say, a probiotic gave me a herx.
Also I think that the price of Progurt matches the philosophy: instead of merely being a complement to other supplements or a buffer to antibiotics, the high-dose human strain is intended to be a primary treatment in and of itself. Also, 1 trillion CFU for 20 bucks comes out to $0.02 per 1 billion CFU. That comes out to $1/50 billion CFU, which is slightly more than the cost of other probiotics.. except it is the only human-strain probiotic I am aware. The cost makes sense to me.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
So far, I am also testing allergy-free to the Progurt.. this despite being "allergic" to milk. The vendor told me all the casein becomes denatured & the all lactose is converted to lactase during the incubation process. I have had some digestive problems after taking it, but they've dwindled down now and seem to be a result of gut repair.
I add it to museli/cereal/blueberries/cranberries and it tastes great!! I also add this multiglycidic syrup that acts as a prebiotic... who knew something this sweet could be so helpful, candida be damned!
It's really weird taking a supplement and feeling slightly indulgent at the same time..
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I believe the initial reaction i had was so severe because my biggest problem right now, says my doc, is fungus. The bombardment with probiotics during the first few days must've given the fungus a field day. Will see tomorrow if my doc finds a change w/r/t fungal infections
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
"You cannot keep making from what you have made according to the company."
Why would this be true?
Any other yogurt can be started using a sample, Kefir using the same grains. Why would "human GI bacteria" be any different?
What am I missing here?
I mean, suppose you only get half-a-trillion organisms per quart -- would that be the end of the world?
Or do none of the bugs make it through.
Has anyone tested this?
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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Call the company and ask. Just sharing my positive experience. I'll leave the rest to you all to do more research.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Rumigirl
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Scott,
This sounds wonderful! I trust your experience on this. How long have you been using it? How fast did you see results? And did you then reduce other supplements and remedies due to the good effects of the Progurt?
Lastly, if you had it all to do over again, would you go primarily with the Progurt, Bionic 880, and related modalities as opposed to abx? (I know this may be a difficult question, considering that it is hypothetical). Thank you, and sorry for so many questions!
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SForsgren
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I saw some results within the first few days. I have not cut down yet, in fact, recently added more detox support.
I can't comment yet on the last question. Maybe in the future I'll have more thoughts about it but I don't want to suggest that antibiotics are not needed in some cases.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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At the loading dose that I used, it ran about 600 for the first month and then tapers down to as low as 60 dollars a month.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Thanks Scott and Joey....
Wow, that IS pretty pricey....
I assume you got this by ordering directly from the Progurt website (in Australia)?
Also, I did note that you can use goat's milk or soy milk, according to the website. It specifies 'sterile' milks, so not sure if raw goat's or cow's milk would be a good idea or not. They might have to say 'sterile' for legal reasons....
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SForsgren
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It doesn't work as well with non-cow milk per the company when I spoke with them on the phone. They suggest organic cow's milk.
I called them and placed the order via phone.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Thank you Scott and Joey for sharing your experiences. I am following your blogs with interest!
I'm a firm believer in the gut-brain connection. I know when I accidentally eat something that doesn't agree with me (such as gluten), my neuro symptoms flare with a vengeance. It makes sense to me that a product like this might work.
I'm very intrigued by Progurt's claims but think I want to wait a bit before trying it myself. 600 USD per month is a bit rich for me right now...
quote:The Progurt Sachet is the world's most powerful probiotic available.
Each Sachet contains a formulation of multiple strains of probiotic bacteria of human origin to enhance and strengthen the immune system. With over 1 trillion CFU capability in each single Progurt Sachet, bacteria never looked so good.
Each sachet can be made into a powerful probiotic yogurt or can be consumed with water.
Progurt improves health and wellbeing. Progurt initiates balance of gut flora - improving digestion, nutrition and absorption, ultimately strengthening your immune system. Increase energy and nutritional support to every living cell in your body - feel and look better than ever before.
Progurt is guaranteed 100% natural with no artificial flavours, colours or preservatives.
I thought perhaps that might be a more cost effective alternative, rather than going the "whole package" route.
I wonder if it would be more cost effective to put the contents of the sachet into capsules and perhaps divide into doses.
I wonder why they don't sell it in capsule form.....
I don't see any pricing for the sachets. Did they give you pricing for just the sachets when you ordered or received the initial package, Scott?
****warning - I'm grossing myself out again don't read this if my thought process is annoying you****
I just came across this in the FAQs when I was trying to figure out where I read about swallowing the sachet contents with water:
quote:Can I make fresh Progurt, using already-made Progurt as the starter culture?
No. Fresh Progurt cannot be made using already-made Progurt as a starter culture. The strains of bacteria contained in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract and will not replicate.
I'm now wondering if that would mean that they can't cultivate it in a lab and must somehow harvest it from human instestines or fecal matter.
THEY CAN'T DO THAT RIGHT?!!!!(please tell me they can't do that!)
If they won't replicate, how could they repopulate? How could they culture the yogurt to begin with if they can't replicate?
If it's a growing bacterial culture, then shouldn't contamination of a fresh milk sample by bacteria from a previous batch result in the bacteria then growing in the contaminated milk?
If it's not growing in the first batch, what would be the point of putting it in there?
I'm having WAY too much trouble getting a handle on this.
Can anyone help me figure out how it's possible to not be able to make yogurt out of bacteria that won't replicate? There must be something about the yogurt-making process or bacterial growth that I don't understand.
I have to see if there's an e-mail contact there that I can ask for an explanation, unless someone else can help me understand this.
The whole idea of using strains that are naturally found in the human intestinal tract makes great sense to me.
Knowing how important the intestinal flora is to the immune system, I would think that being able to repopulate our beneficial bacteria with strains that belong there would be of immense benefit.
I think its great that they've found a way to actually re-establish intestinal probiota, once it's been completely depleted, besides feeding people human excrement.
I just can't seem to connect all the dots in my head as to how this works. Maybe I need to take a break and come back to this later. My head is swimming right now.
I'm sorry that I have this OCD need to try to fully understand every little thing. I realize that it sometimes annoys other people.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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when you put the satchets in the milk and finish incubating, the 100 billion CFU becomes 1 trillion. It is clearly not more cost-effective to just down the satchets
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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I personally would not take the sachets as the normal course of use. They are 20 dollars each and I think it is much better to take it after fermented.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If you don't believe in energetic med please feel free to ignore the rest of my post.
When I first told my energetic doc about the price of the product, she thought it was quite outrageous too. Well, I brought in the progurt for her to test yesterday, and she said it tested very very strong for me. Also, she thought I'd be allergic to the milk used for fermenting and had told me to use almond milk, but upon testing said I wasn't allergic to the final product. I'm not sure if everyone would tolerate it, but I know I'm definitely allergic to dairy products so it seems the progurt nutritionist was right abuot the fermentation process completely denaturing the milk casein proteins and converting lactose 100% to lactase.
As for the therapeutic effect: last week, she said my fungal infections stood at 50% of what they were when I first saw her a year ago. I told her I think I experienced a yeast die-off from the progurt, so she tested me again and said it had dropped another 50% to 25%. Within 1 week. This prompted her to test my other major infections (Bb, babs, HHV-6, myco etc) and she said most of them had also dropped in percentage. Within 1 week. I think the only other thing I've tried that has worked to this extent is the bionic, but that didn't seem to work as universally and had a pronounced effect on mainly one infection at a time.
She is now interested in the product and thinks it may actually be worth the price. She thinks the product is stimulating GALT--gut associated lymphoid tissue, where 70% of the immune system is thought to reside.
I have found her muscle-testing to incredibly precise and consistent. At the least, I think this is a huge piece to the immune response puzzle.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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AliG
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Why then couldn't more be made from a starter batch?
Did anyone find out if ANY yogurt machine would suffice or if it could be made in the "old-fashioned" way, if someone was so inclined or if their incubator specifically needs to be purchased?
*********************** edited to add:
I just e-mailed them the following questions, I'll post their response when I hear back:
quote:Is there something that makes your incubator different or would one be able to use the sachets with another yogurt maker?
If "The strains of bacteria contained in Progurt are indigenous to the human gastro-intestinal tract and will not replicate", how is it possible to grow the culture from the sachets and to repopulate the gastrointestinal tract by ingestion?
I'd really love to believe that this can help me and to find a fairly cost-effective means to utilize it. I hope they can clear up my confusion on this.
I could really use some help right now with getting yeast back in check and I'd LOVE to have something capable of actual repopulation of my intestinal flora that wouldn't interfere with all of the other stuff I'm taking.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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alig... please contact the nutritionist. He is very open to answering any questions you may have about the product, and will likely answer it better than any of us here as he has been developing this product for gawd knows how long and has researched the effects of it for the last 5 years.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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AliG
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I guess I must have added what I had just e-mailed them, while you were posting your suggestion.
Do you know if that's who would answer the e-mail?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I would go to the contact info, and skype him if you can. You'll get to him much faster that way
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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Just Skype or call. It's pretty easy either way.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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AliG
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I'm Skype ignorant & too tired to look it up. What's Skype?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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AliG, if you are interested in the product, make the effort to find out more. I think people have shared enough here. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the product and that is fine.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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"AliG, if you are interested in the product, make the effort to find out more. I think people have shared enough here. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the product and that is fine."
People have shared enough??
What does that mean?
Maybe you feel you have shared enough, and that's fine. Stop sharing. But I'm with Ali; there are many questions about this stuff. It may be the best thing in the world, I have no idea about that. As far as I can see, the only thing that has been shared so far, other than the website, is that a few people have used it and loved and gotten great results.
That's great. But it really doesn't answer any of the questions asked, nor does it explain exactly how the product works, and whether or not there may be any risks to taking so huge a load of unknown bacteria at one time.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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If you have questions beyond what has been shared, please call the company. They have a phone number. People call them all the time. It's much easier and more expedient for you to call them and get the answers from them directly. People that are sharing their experiences here are using the product, not experts.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm glad you're doing so well on this. If it would help my gut that would be wonderful. But I am overly cautious at this point.
Are you at all worried that introducing 1/2 trillion unknown bacteria may be dangerous?
Is it real healing going on, or possibly some sort of palliation that may have consequences later on down the road?
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