this hasn't been an easy ride. if your gut is anywhere as messed up as mine be ready to rest for days at a time.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Off topic a little except another use for yogurt. there is urease antibody that can be put into yogurt to help control or eradicate h-pylori. Just posting as an aside:
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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'Kete-tracker
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Scott, Did you read a couple years back that they recently finally figured out that the appendix was/is employed as a safe haven for "good bacteria"...to re-seed the GI tract after an acute bout with an intestinal disease like dysentery?
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Truthfinder
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You know, I've been thinking about this......
First, I don't think the company could refer to the Progurt microflora as `indigenous human strains' if has been genetically modified, bioengineered, etc. However, it would be an important question to ask the company.
Second, I suspect that beyond lifestyle choices and the imbalance of good-to-bad microbes & chemicals in our modern food chain...... what I suspect is that many or even most of us were either born with an imbalance in gut flora, or it happened soon thereafter.
Given the mean age of members at LymeNet, it is likely that `Mom' may have been deficient when we were born. It was popular for a number of years to forego breastfeeding and give commercial formula to infants instead, so no source of immunity-help in that situation. Then we got whacked with abx the first time we got a suspected case of Strep Throat or an ear infection, or we had our tonsils jerked out with abx as a side-dish....... in other words, I suspect that the problem goes way, way back.
And I really wonder if a lot of common food intolerances and digestive problems are connected here in a BIG way, factors that affected us even before we were born....
Way to go, Zombie! Can't let the `guys' here have all the fun.
Joey, how disabling has this been for you? When you said `be ready to rest for days at a time', my ears pricked up. As long as I can handle the basic daily needs of myself and my few pets, I'm okay with that. But I don't want to be `down for the count' with something like this. If it's possible, I just need to know about it.
Okay one more question for Scott and Joey: I am assuming that constipation has not been a consequence of doing the Progurt, that any changes have been more on the other end of the spectrum?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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Actually, when I first started, there was a slight shift towards constipation but that passed pretty quickly and the company is great about providing support as you use the product. I think at that time, I increased magnesium slightly and that was all it took.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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Will you still make the Progurt with cow milk? As I understand that is important and the lactose is fermented out. I really hope this helps you ZM!
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
there has been a major shift towards compensation and gassiness--I trust this isn't TMI--that has only been relieved by the recommendations given by robert. Relieved, but not resolved, but I trust it will get much better with time. The gas is due to all the newfound fermentation induced by the product.
ZM--i believe my gut is in worse shape than I ever could've imagined, esp. considering I'm in my mid-20s and had a relatively healthy diet before being sick for the last 3 years. A lot of our gut issues are genetic I'm sure, just like detoxification capabilities are largely predetermined. I think my response tells me I really need this product. I am still using the cow's milk to incubate and not having any issues, so Robert may have been right on that one. He even told me to drink milk straight up with honey one time, but I'm not quite ready to go there!
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
As for disabling, When the progurt reaches the nether regions, the bad stuff only has two ways to go: further down the pipe or back into the bloodstream. Doe to existing leaky gut, I believe there has been some major bug & toxin redistribution in the bloodstream. The progurt is stimulating GALT, and thereby ramping up an almost startling immune response, but in the meantime be ready to bind bind and bind some more. Heavy metals have been testing too.
Per my convo with Sparkle7, I also believe all the photon treatments have diverted toxins & bugs down to the intestinal regions, where they had trouble making a final exit. This backlog may be getting stirred up as well.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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ZM - please talk with Robert every couple of days given your condition. He will be able to help you do the right thing, take the right amounts, adjust, etc. as to hopefully not stir things up too much.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
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This is very important, before embarking on this, make sure your liver is as clean as possible. And keep working the liver so it can best take care of things that might get into the blood stream.
I know Joey touched on it very well, but thought I'd go through it one more time.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: Will you still make the Progurt with cow milk? As I understand that is important and the lactose is fermented out. I really hope this helps you ZM!
I already make my own yogurt with cow's milk. I ferment it for 24h and this removes the lactose. I tolerate it fine this way so hopefully progurt would be the same...
posted
Agree with scott. I talk to Robert at least every other day, and even a few times a day when I'm having unexpected issues.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by m0joey: The progurt is stimulating GALT, and thereby ramping up an almost startling immune response, but in the meantime be ready to bind bind and bind some more. Heavy metals have been testing too.
When you say 'startling immune response', I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please describe?
Also, what binders do you use? There is not much I can tolerate at the moment besides charcoal.
posted
I was referring to the GALT, where 70% of our immunity lies, being stimulated. Regardless of how many killing supplements we're taking, without our innate immunity working effectively they may just be bandaids.
I felt a strong die-off reaction within 1 day of taking it, could barely get off my couch, and my energetic doc told me a few days later I'd lowered my fungal infections by 50% in one week.
As for binders: chlorella, ACZ zeolite, methylation supps--methyl b12, folapro, instrinsic b12, phosphatidyl choline--pectasol, HMD, nutramedix algas, pinella for neurotoxins.
Are you using the biotensor or any other form of energetic testing? I test each time before I take.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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NanaDubo
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Scott and Joey, are you taking Progurt at the same time as A I or in between rounds?
Thanks
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
in between for me, but i will likely continue taking the progurt after the 3rd round comes. Or maybe wait until the detox from progurt has leveled off before adding the AI. Not sure yet
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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I am doing it at the same time.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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NanaDubo
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Thanks, I'm waiting for round three and just trying to figure out whether I want to attempt both at the same time.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Zombie_mummy, you and I have very similar GI symptoms. My GI tract is in such bad shape that I have to consume the same exact thing everyday, or else my gut peristalsis will completely stop, I go into malabsorption, have pain, gas, and bloating, and drop even more weight. At my worst, I only went to the bathroom once a month due to gut paralysis. I've gone from 140 pounds to 83 pounds (I'm 5'7) and now I'm back up to 100 pounds, but still can't eat much or gain much more.
I'd love to hear how this goes for you. Keep us updated, with all the juicy details! Nothing is "TMI" for me! Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by LittleLymie19: Zombie_mummy, you and I have very similar GI symptoms. My GI tract is in such bad shape that I have to consume the same exact thing everyday, or else my gut peristalsis will completely stop, I go into malabsorption, have pain, gas, and bloating, and drop even more weight. At my worst, I only went to the bathroom once a month due to gut paralysis.
Yes LittleLymie, I noticed in your other thread how similar your GI symptoms sound to mine. Specific Carbohydrate diet/ GAPS diet is the only thing that helps me.
Homemade bone broths and homemade 24h yogurt are the staples of my diet these days.
Whenever I have a bad food reaction, I have to go back and eat nothing but broth for a week in order to heal my gut.
When I start the progurt, I'll keep you posted on all the gory details...
AliG
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posted
quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: AliG, if you are interested in the product, make the effort to find out more. I think people have shared enough here. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the product and that is fine.
FWIW-I WAS interested in it. In case you hadn't noticed, I don't bother wasting my time in threads that don't interest me.
I thought people put up threads about things to discuss them and for people to share information about them.
What the heck did I do to you, besides being interested in something that you said you felt you were benefiting from? Is it because I can't afford to just run out & buy it without feeling some degree of confidence that it would work for ME?
EXCUSE ME for not being independently wealthy and able to spend money on everything that sounds interesting.
BTW- still no word back from the company. I DID seek answers there and didn't even get the courtesy of a reply.
Was there something rude about the way I phrased my questions to them, because I didn't think so & I really WAS considering trying it if I thought their answers could justify my expenditure.
I'm actually glad I lost track of this & hadn't seen your post to me before now. I'm sorry I came back to it again.
Congratulations, you've succeeded in offending me, as I know was your intent.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
This is from the FAQ, with regard to the milk:
quote:What type of milk should I use to make Progurt?
The milk must be sterile. Use UHT, Full Cream variety. Milk type terminology may vary from country to country - UHT Milk may also be termed Long Life / Ultra Pasteurized / Bio Pasteurized. Full Cream Milk may also be termed Whole Milk. It is recommended that you choose the highest quality milk available. You can use both Cows Milk and Goats Milk.
Cow OR Goat, but should be full-cream UHT.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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SForsgren
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They also say that soy can be used on the web site, but that it does not work as well. It may be the case that Goat may work as well, but everytime I have spoken to them, they have suggested cow milk.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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Several people here have called and spoken with the company and talked with Robert. If you have an interest in the product, call them. You will get much more information that you could ever get from an email.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks for the replies.
Sounds like those with tendencies towards constipation may have to start slow and work up, maybe? Well, Zombie will be finding out soon....
Yep, `gut palsy' is my issue, too - excellent description. The triggers vary; some I know, but other times I don't know what happens. But things just stop transiting through the system properly. And that's even with taking fiber every day for the past 20 years. I flunked the `Stool Transit Study' done a few years back. They put me on Zelnorm, which worked for awhile but eventually caused sludge in my gall bladder.
I've ended up in the ER twice with an impacted bowel, even though I was still having bowel movements. Raw and cooked veggies digest the best, but I absolutely freeze to death if I don't have sufficient fat and proteins. I've tried about everything reasonable, and at this point, a few days of MiraLax once a month are necessary as a `clean-out' to prevent impaction.
I'd rather use goat's milk, but I'd have to get it fresh, then boil it. Not convenient and more chance of unwanted organisms entering the mix. Apparently, I was raised on goat's milk since it wasn't possible to nurse, and I couldn't digest cow's milk or commercial formula. If I do the Progurt, I'll follow whatever recommendations they offer in my case.
No such thing as TMI for me, either. The GI tract is what it is, and specifics are important!
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Truthfinder, you sound SO much like Zombie and I then. I couldn't even finish any of the transit tests at the hospital because it took just 3 hours to finish the test in the stomach, and even after nearly 12 hours of waiting, none of the tests could even reach my small intestine. It took a week for the barium to come out, and I never even saw the camera come out (that's a scary thought). THAT'S how long food sits in me. And in those cases, it was just liquid or a small camera, imagine solid food! Geez. They tried me on zelnorm too, all bad.
Have you tried oxygenated magnesium, or magnesium oxide? Miralax doesn't work for me either.
Are you set to try Progurt too?
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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Truthfinder
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Caution to those who don't want any juicy details: Don't read this.
Hi, LL - sounds like you have been through hell. Well, both you and Zombie have.... I feel for you both. Actually, my STS didn't involve a little camera, but that would have been interesting to see. I just ate normal food, swallowed a capsule full of little metal `O' rings, and they took x-rays every day to see how far everything had gone, and how long it took the O rings to clear out.....
Yes, liquid mag-oxide. Horrendous cramping - I mean stop-you-in-your-tracks pain. The only magnesium I tolerate is the Natural Calm stuff, and it will still give me some cramping. And I can't take much of it. I'm sure you can relate to this - the day after I drink the Natural Calm, I can hear things gurgling and turning to liquid in my upper GI tract, but it doesn't translate into pooping. It does nothing to increase peristalsis, which appears to be the problem.
MiraLax - it won't work for me either if I use it as directed on the bottle. I usually have to take 2 doses a day - sometimes 3 - for about 4 days, and THEN I have to take something like Cascara Sagrada to make my bowels move it out. all this takes about a week to accomplish, and I don't schedule any appointments or social events during that time, let me tell you. (BTW, the max dose is 47 grams of MiraLax a day, and my doc says the molecules are too big to be absorbed through the intestine so he says it won't hurt me. Hope he's right.)
What actually works better is that Go-Lytely liquid stuff they make you drink before a colonoscopy or lower GI film series - basically sip the darn stuff every 15 minutes until there is movement, which is really more like an eruption, in my case. But you need a prescription for that so I use the MiraLax - same basic stuff without the electrolytes.
I've got a 3 week `parasite protocol' I want to do first, and a basic 10-day intensive probiotic treatment that I got before this thread popped up (which I'm sure will have NO effect, just like others I've tried)...... so, I'll be doing those things first before I decide about the Progurt. Oh, and I might want to do a round of MiraLax before I attempt either of the first two.... things. So, I'm a ways away from committing to this.
If we could get our bowels moving properly, I can't help but think our over-all health would improve.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Robert told me similar: yes it CAN be made with soy and goat milk, but not as well, esp. due to the delicacy of goat milk.
I think it is worth mentioning again that I have had major sensitivity/allergy whatever you wanna call it to milk products, was on dairy-free diet for 2 years w/o a day off, started on a liter a day of this product and have tolerated it just fine
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Fungal infections & mold staying down, but candida specifically still an issue and needed to be treated with bionic. I'm not sure why, but my doc whom is now also using the progurt tells me it affects molds and yeast differently.
Also, she told me progurt sequestered mercury from the gut, so the binders are still in full effect.
A family member that wants nothing to do with dairy is trying the product with hemp milk. So is my doctor, whom insists east asians can't handle milk even in denatured form. She said the hemp version still tests very strong. It doesn't set like yogurt, but the liquid sours and ends up tasting a bit like slightly soured ovaltine.
Still on original dosage.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Truthfinder
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Yes, thanks for the updates.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I noticed on the website that you could use goat's milk, instead of cow's milk. I know that Joey said even though he was allergic to cow's milk he could still use it in progurt, but I might opt for goat's milk (if I can find it).
How much progurt does one satchel make? I apologize if this had been answered and I missed it?
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Zombie, I'll be waiting to hear all about your response, specifically I hope it goes well!
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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Truthfinder
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Good luck, Zombie. Can't wait to hear your initial report.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
So, I ate some yesterday for the first time. Had .5L then and another .5L today. I used 2% UHT milk as full fat UHT seems to be made of unobtainium around here.
I feel pretty good right now but it's too early to tell if it is because of Progurt or just coincidental...
My speech is definitely better today, not as slurred as it often is and I feel more energetic than usual.
I feel I should also mention that I had been suffering with a bad cold for a few days but my cold syx seemed to clear up right after my 1st dose of Progurt.
As far as GI stuff goes, I did have a BM today (have not had one for 3 days) but it is hard to say yet if Progurt helped with this or not.
If I start to, ah, 'produce' more regularly, I will be very happy as I often only manage 1/week due to gut palsy. I'll be sure to give you all the (poop) scoop!
I'm not having any issues with gas or discomfort so far. If anything, my gut feels better than it usually does.
posted
Thanks, Zombie for the info on how much one satchel makes. You and I seeem to have opposite gut problems and thus I cannot gain the weight I need. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Scott, just ordered a progert budget kit. I'll ease into it. Thanks for scouting this out and sharing.
You are doing a great job!!!!!
Thanks, Ernie
Posts: 546 | From Cascadia subduction zone | Registered: Mar 2002
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Truthfinder
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Hey, thanks, Zombie..... your TMI report is music to my ears.... and the 'unobtainium' term was a good one, for sure. (What kind of place doesn't have whole milk anyway?)
A Progurt 'budget kit', Ernie? So, how much will you be taking a day, then?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Keep the potty reports up They give me hope for me and my broken plumbing! hahaha...
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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Alv
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posted
HI Zomby_mommy! Keep reporting please.I am so looking into using it also !
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