sparkle7
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Member # 10397
posted
Good to hear people are doing well with this. I don't have an issue with Bell's Palsey of the gut or most intestinal problems so it seemed alot to spend on a probiotic.
If you're ill - any amount to spend on getting well is worthwhile if you can manage it.
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Well Zombie if you keep that batting average cost won't matter. You'll be signed to a contract with a professional baseball team.
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Truthfinder
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posted
Sparkle, this isn't your everyday, average probiotic. Everything I hear and read about it indicates that this product utilizes gut flora that are old, old, old friends of ours that have been ignored in favor of the easy-to-culture products we're familiar with.
Zombie, you are too funny..... I sort of knew you were from Canada because of the `Canuckistan' location, LOL. That got a good laugh from me right from the start....
Wow, 3 in a row. Maybe some folks wouldn't understand the significance of that, but I certainly do. I feel like passing out cigars or something.
This is amazing. I'd come to the conclusion that my elimination issue - the gut palsy thing - was an autonomic problem. Well, maybe that still makes sense if you consider that most neurotransmitters are generated in the gut, not the brain.....
Okay, seriously now, am I to understand that `UHT' milk is something different than regular 4% (full fat) pasteurized milk available in every grocery store here in the USA? Because if it is, then I've got a problem getting it, too.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tosho: Hi, could anyone tell me what is the price for progurt? Does it need to be transported in low temperature (shipping). Thanks.
It's $180.00-680.00 US, depending what package you order.
Truthfinder
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Member # 8512
posted
Scott, do you use unrefrigerated stuff on the shelf, or the refrigerated 'regular' milk?
I'm still not clear on this.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
I use refrigerated milk and then refrigerate the end product after the Progurt final product is made.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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You have been using progurt the longest.....how has it helped you? With what symptoms and are you taking any abx along with this prod?
-------------------- May God Bless you, answer your prayers, relieve you of your pain and make you stronger than what you are today. Ameen. Posts: 341 | From Columbia, MD | Registered: Jan 2009
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SForsgren
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posted
I am not taking any antibiotics. I probably would not find this worth doing if I were still on antibiotics. The benefit might be less pronounced as the antibiotics kill probiotics.
I've noticed more energy, reduction of fungal issues, some visual improvement, more exercise tolerance. It's harder for me to point at specific items since I have been at about 90% for a bit now.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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seekhelp
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Member # 15067
posted
Scott, I've asked this several times but didn't get a response. If you're at 90% (which is great), how on earth do you know which things are worth investing an enormous amount of $$$ into when you treat things? A 10% differential isn't that big I'd imagine at that level. Is it cost effective?
I'm trying to understand your rationale behind all these treatment protocols. Or maybe you decline in health if you don't do them all? If we're talking $500+ for probotics, I'd have to think it must be a MAJOR improvement to continue. This helps people get an idea how to get the best bang for their buck.
When we're talking about relatively high ticket treatment options, just trying things randomly sure can break one fast (most people).
I actually just spent some time reviewing your treatment protocol(s) on your website. All I can say is WOW. There are literally three pages full of supplements along with endless other things. I've never seen anything so comprehensive. With all that IMO, it's like dropping a needle on a cubic yard of dirt and seeing if a difference can be noticed.
It's your body and i'm sure you can tell. Good luck with everything. It seems to be something most, if not all here, could realistically do.
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steve1906
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posted
I just have two questions:
1- Can anyone tell me if this product (Progurt) has any side effects?
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks, Scott. (Thank goodness!)
So, Miss Canuckistan, maybe you could use regular, pasteurized, full-fat milk instead of the UHT stuff. I'm sure both the UHT and 'whole milk' instructions are important, but if memory serves, it is the fat in milk that contains a lot of enzymes that help us digest it. For instance, I can digest butter but I don't do well with any kind of plain milk.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
My dh is now being treated for cdiff.. I would think the progurt would be very good for him AFTER he completes abx (if ever?)?
He is to take 3 therelac a day. I am thinking he should take a variety of probiotics... ?
The 700 is only for one month, right, then you taper down?
I'll call these people.
Anyone get cdiff and be able to go back on abx that dont directly address cdiff.. like most of them?
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder: So, Miss Canuckistan, maybe you could use regular, pasteurized, full-fat milk instead of the UHT stuff.
If you don't use UHT, you will need to sterilise the milk yourself. It is a very important step. I make yogurt all the time this way.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/yoghurt_scd.htm 1.) Put one or two liters (quarts) of milk into a clean pot and heat slowly on a medium heat until the temperature reaches 180 degrees F.* Stir the milk from time to time to keep the bottom from scorching, and again before you take a final temp reading to make sure that the entire contents have reached 180 degrees. The purpose in heating the milk to this temperature is to kill any bacteria that might be present and interfere with the yoghurt making culture. *Both cow milk and goat milk must be heated to just past 180 degrees F, in order to sterilize them. However, cow milk can tolerate temperatures up to about 212 degrees F, while goat milk is more delicate and should not be heated above 185 degrees F.
2.) Turn the heat off and allow to cool to between 108 and 112 degrees F. Stir well before determining the final temperature. You may cover the pot with a clean tea towel while it cools.
quote:Originally posted by steve1906: I just have two questions:
1- Can anyone tell me if this product (Progurt) has any side effects?
2- And can it be dangerous in anyway?
The have been no noticeable side effects for me so far, other than improved bowel function.
The FAQs on the website state that it is safe for all, including children and pregnant women.
I gave a little amount mixed with honey to my 2 yr old yesterday to help her with a bit of constipation trouble. She loved it and it worked like a charm.
posted
I read up alot on this product and it seems to help alot of people with MS....i mean BIG improvement.
-------------------- May God Bless you, answer your prayers, relieve you of your pain and make you stronger than what you are today. Ameen. Posts: 341 | From Columbia, MD | Registered: Jan 2009
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Truthfinder
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posted
Oh, Robin - very sorry to hear that about your dh! I hope you do contact the Progurt people and see what they might suggest. I'd like to know, too.
If your hubby was not taking Saccharomyces boulardii or Florastor or one of the products out there with S. boulardii in it, then that might be a suggestion. Do a search here - there have been a number of discussions about it.
Thanks, Zombie. Here in the U.S., UHT requires `aseptic' (sterile processing conditions and packaging) with no set temperature or time for heating (that I could come up with). Strange.
In the U.S., we may have to settle for `ultra-pasteurized' whole milk, which has to be subjected to 280�F for at least 2 seconds. I don't know. I'll have to see what's available here.
I wish the industry could figure out a new way to `sterilize' milk products. Heating processes sure destroy any real `food' value in milk, and some say it's a cause of `leaky gut' since the body can no longer recognize the protein molecules.
Sonee, is there a specific website where you found a lot of info on Progurt and MS? I've seen some general references to MS and even diabetes, but just bits and pieces.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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the cost is case by case. Some people may be able to taper down within a few months similar to Scott, but I imagine I'll be on the full dose for longer. But if it becomes unaffordable, I still think taking the same dollar amount of progurt vs. the same dollar amount of any other probiotic I've tried would be a good choice based on my response thus far.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thankyou, Tracy. It's not confirmed per testing, but suspected with the fever and violence of it. We put him on the Florastor in addition to Therelac. He's on flagyl now.
Good point, Joey.. thank you. I didnt think to think of that.. very good point..
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
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posted
And if you consider that after 9-13 months, you don't need much if any to keep this going, it is longer-term not as bad as it looks. Once you colonize the gut, the bugs will replicate themselves enough that maybe a glass a week or so is enough.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Do the Nutramedix herbs also kill beneficial flora? Is there any protocol beside immune enhancers or homeopathy, rife or photons one can use while on progurt without wasting the money... ?? Looks like AI is ok to do with progurt.. Thanks..
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SForsgren
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posted
Not Progurt. The only things known to kill these strains are hard core RX drugs / antibiotics. They are not impacted by garlic, silver, etc.
I am doing my normal protocol with natural antimicrobials, etc. with Progurt.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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seekhelp
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Member # 15067
posted
Still wondering Scott. It's a legitimate question to you or really anyone taking many supplements at once and adding more. I too am in this boat wondering why to take what and value from it. I won't ask again if I get no direct response this time. Thanks.
Original Post
Scott, I've asked this several times but didn't get a response. If you're at 90% (which is great), how on earth do you know which things are worth investing an enormous amount of $$$ into when you treat things? A 10% differential isn't that big I'd imagine at that level. Is it cost effective?
I'm trying to understand your rationale behind all these treatment protocols. Or maybe you decline in health if you don't do them all? If we're talking $500+ for probotics, I'd have to think it must be a MAJOR improvement to continue. This helps people get an idea how to get the best bang for their buck.
When we're talking about relatively high ticket treatment options, just trying things randomly sure can break one fast (most people).
I actually just spent some time reviewing your treatment protocol(s) on your website. All I can say is WOW. There are literally three pages full of supplements along with endless other things. I've never seen anything so comprehensive. With all that IMO, it's like dropping a needle on a cubic yard of dirt and seeing if a difference can be noticed.
It's your body and i'm sure you can tell. Good luck with everything. It seems to be something most, if not all here, could realistically do.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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SForsgren
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posted
I use energetic testing to guide my plan. If it tests as beneficial, I incorporate it into my plan working with my doctors.
It goes up and down in terms of the number of things that I am taking at any given time. The focus now is on detox and regeneration and much less on microbes except for energetic therapies such as the photons and a couple of the natural supplements that are on my list.
The number one investment we can make is in our health.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Thank you, Scott. Thanks for the updates everyone.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Truthfinder
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posted
Robin, hopefully the Flagyl will knock it. C. diff. is such a nasty, nasty bug. There are lots of really good tips on BorreliaBrain's thread, which I'm sure you've already read, but in case you haven't: http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/79661
Wow, that's terrific Zombie!
Are you taking other things to help with GI issues (like fiber, prunes, magnesium, aloe vera, whatever) or is Progurt pretty much it at this point?
I keep revisiting the Progurt website..... either there is more information there than before, or I sure missed a lot in the beginning.
Okay, another question: Anyone notice either improvement or worsening of foul-smelling `flatulence' after starting the Progurt?
I've been taking a measly 30 billion CFU daily probiotic (Primadophilus - standard acidophilus and bifidus) + an inulin prebioitic on a regular basis for over a month now. It does seem to help my bowel- inactivity issues somewhat, but it also seems to cause a lot of offensive gas. Not always, but more often than not.
I can't imagine what 500 billion CFU a day would do.....! I would hate to asphyxiate my dog.
FYI, I've also experimented with taking just the Primadophilus without the inulin (or sometimes I use FOS), and there is no comparison. Without a prebiotic, there is very little change or benefit. I was very surprised that it would make SO much difference.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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seekhelp
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posted
Thanks Scott.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Thanks for the feedback on the Progurt Zombie Mummy thats great news! I've been pondering on whether to try it for a while but as its quite expensive I decided to wait until I had heard more reports.
I'm really glad to hear that its helping you...even small improvements in the neuro issues must be very encouraging!
I might well invest in it soon.
Really hope it continues to help you!
Posts: 85 | From UK | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder: Wow, that's terrific Zombie!
Are you taking other things to help with GI issues (like fiber, prunes, magnesium, aloe vera, whatever) or is Progurt pretty much it at this point? ... Okay, another question: Anyone notice either improvement or worsening of foul-smelling `flatulence' after starting the Progurt?
I have not changed my diet since starting Progurt. I was already doing the Specific Carbohydrate/GAPS diet for the past 10 months. I've kept on it since adding Progurt.
SCDiet calls for homemade yogurt anyways, so I just substituted Progurt for my usual SCD yogurt.
I eat dried apricots/prunes but I had always done so with little improvement in gut palsy.
I do take Natural Calm magnesium powder but that's it. It never seemed to help my bowel issues much -I took it more for muscle twitches, cramping, etc.
I have not noticed an increase in gas with Progurt. If anything, I'm less bloated and gassy than before.
posted
The gas & its quality have fluctuated for me. It may get worse at first because of all the fermentation going on in the gut. However, bowel movements have definitely been on the up and up for me... sometimes 3, 4x a day
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks much, Zombie and Joey. I'm sure it will be a bit different for each person, depending on what their issue is.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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hiker53
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posted
Can progurt make you spend less time on the toilet. I have the opposite problem from zombie and some of the others. I need to slow down my bowels.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8880 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by hiker53: Can progurt make you spend less time on the toilet. I have the opposite problem from zombie and some of the others. I need to slow down my bowels.
Hiker53
I ordered progurt on Friday and have the same problem as you, Hiker, so I'll let you know.
My problems are probably from the antibiotics. I will be taking the progurt even though antibiotic treatment continues, even though the abx will kill some of the probiotics -- but since probiotic tablets are having little effect on my pooping problems, I thought I'd give the big guns a try.
-------------------- Wildlife biologist working in tropics since 1997; tick bites in Nicaragua in March 2007, started getting sick May 2007; diagnosed with Lyme based on serological testing in Jan 2009; treatment starting Feb 2009. Wish me luck! Posts: 116 | From Seattle | Registered: Feb 2009
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lymeparfait
Unregistered
posted
I just started the progurt yesterday during my two week break from AI drops.
My progurt came out soupy in consistancy...no fully yogurt like.....is this normal?
Could the strains be damaged in shipment?
And are the sachets to be refrigerated prior to use?
SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
Mine is general soupy as well and I prefer to drink it anyway. I have heard that if you get organic whole milk, boil it, simmer and then use it will be thicker. You can also go up to 24 hours in the incubator.
Nothing is wrong with the product most likely. I put them in the fridge, but not sure if that is required.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I followed your instructions and I used organic whole milk, boiled it to 180 degrees and then let it cool to 108 degrees. When it seemed just warm, I added the sachet and started the progurt machine, running it to the directed time.
Should I have waited until it was room temp. to add the sachet? Just want to make sure I do not harm to organisms before the progert is made.
quote:Originally posted by hiker53: Can progurt make you spend less time on the toilet. I have the opposite problem from zombie and some of the others. I need to slow down my bowels.
According to the Progurt website, it claims to help with the following bowel issues:
posted
zombie, I am going to start the SCD. My gut is a wreck. I was on it before all but making yogurt. When you make the progurt for 24 hours, what temp do you use? Does the unit allow you to make the 24 hour yogurt.. does it stay on? Thanks..
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Just thought I'd let you know that I also decided to try the Progurt as I've just ran out of my regular probiotics.
I spoke to the guy at Progurt and he said I could just try the sachets in water first of all without fermenting it as Im a bit concerned that I might react to the Progurt as I'm dairy sensitive ... Ive had gut problems for yrs and cant even tolerate kefir with goats or cows milk so I hope I can tolerate the Progurt..heres hoping! Anyway he reckons just taking the sachets first might help to prepare my gut for the full onslaught of the Progurt :-)
We'll see anyway & I'll keep you all posted on how I get on with it.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Posts: 85 | From UK | Registered: Jun 2008
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SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
It doesn't work as well in water. Most people here that have tried it had some dairy issues and it doesn't seem to be too problematic.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
You may be better off trying to use coconut milk or hemp milk to ferment if you're truly averse to the milk. One of my family members is using hemp milk, and so is my doctor.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thnx Scott & Joey! I think he was just suggesting that I try the sachets first of all just to prepare my gut then move on to making the liquid with cows milk when I order the next batch. It would be great if the dairy version does suit me, otherwise hemp or coconut milk might be good alternatives!
Joey are your doctor and family member getting benefits from using the Progurt with hemp milk?
Cheers
Posts: 85 | From UK | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
The progurt owner told me there isn't enough fat to set, and I've read in other sites it generally doesn't set. Among the nut, grain-based milks, hemp has the most fat. Although sometimes the hemp doesn't set either!!! No sure why the inconsistency.. either the milk or the incubator haha, not many suspects
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Got it. Makes sense. I just wish there wasn't so many darn additives in hemp milk. I know that in the case of the hemp milk that my local health food store sells, all of the additives are "natural". Natural or not though, it's just more to react to. Being a "universal reactor", I can't seem to figure out how I'd consume the progurt without causing more harm than good!
I WILL figure it out though because there is no doubt in my mind that the product itself would help me and my ever-so-dysfunctional gut.
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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My fam isn't using this one because the Living Harvest one sets better, but from what I hear, as long as it sours, fermentation has occurred.
There is nothing in the Manitoba hemp besides organic hemp, sea salt, water, and xanthan gum
Also, despite what Living Harvest label says, their hemp is also organic. It's just that they add synthetic vitamins to their milk.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Thanks Joey, thats good to know the hemp Progurt is helping someone in your family!
Cheers :-)
Posts: 85 | From UK | Registered: Jun 2008
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Truthfinder
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posted
This is exciting.
Good luck, Shimmy.
Robin, what's SCD? (I've just about maxed out my lifetime acronym threshold.)
Zombie, are you still having daily results (or nearly so)?
I still have trouble understanding how little digestive bugs can normalize muscular rhythms in the gut..... this just amazes me.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
SCD = Specific Carboyhdrate Diet
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Here is a brief synopsis of what the SCDiet entails:
"Some general guidelines are, no grains (i.e. rice, wheat, corn, oats, etc.), no processed foods, no starchy vegetables (i.e. potatoes, yams, etc.), no canned vegetables of any kind, no flour, no sugar, no sweeteners other than honey and saccharin, and no milk products except for homemade yogurt fermented for 24 hours, prepared according to the instructions in the book."
posted
Ok so I may just have suffered the brain fart of the Progurt era. Because of yeast, I opted to go with unsweetened hemp milk for family member, and in an earlier post I said it's never fully set. My doc reminded me today that whole milk has 12g of sugar!!! The probiotics feed on sugar during glycolysis and it should convert to lactic acid.
For those of you that plan on using hemp milk or other nut-based milk, high fat content may not be enough. The Manitoba aka Hemp Bliss original has 7g of fat and 6g of sugar per serving. The vanilla has the same fat but 13g of sugar, rivaling whole milk. That seems to be the best match. I will experiment with the sweetened hemp and see if it sets better tonight.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Truthfinder
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posted
Ah, yes - Specific Carbo. Diet - thanks Scott and Zombie for info on that. (Great news, Zombie.)
Speaking of lactic acid........ if anyone was following James Case and his last `discovery' before he left the board, some of the hints he gave suggested lactic acid might be the mystery Bb `killer' he discovered. Just one of the hints he gave out before he left was to `eat a lot of yogurt'.
Also, in my Lyme notes, I found this:
``Borrelia-b: Glucose provides its major energy source and lactic acid is the predominant metabolic end product.'' ( From Franz V's ``Monera'' book)
Does anyone know if this is correct? (It's impossible to try to Google this and come up with anything to verify it.)
Back in my days researching Fibromyalgia, it seems like the presence of lactic acid in muscles was thought to be the cause of chronic pain for many Fibro patients.....
I'm just sort of thinking out loud here, wondering what role lactic acid may have in this whole Lyme process.....
For instance, is it possible that the reason Lyme (and Fibro) tends to attack one area of the body, then move to another area is that it cannot thrive in a certain concentration of it's own `excreta', i.e. lactic acid? (Sorry, this probably isn't the right thread in which to speculate, but I suspect that there's some connection here.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
About Latic Acid and Sanum. The only thing I use to regulate pH is Sanuvis, a mix of Latic acid potencies. It can be rubbed or ingested.
-- There's a good article about functions of acid latic in the body. The summary is below:
On the basis of the above symptoms, SANUVIS 2X is an ideal remedy for the regulation of disordered metabolic processes resulting from stress, dietary errors, imbalance in the acid-alkaline economy and lack of movement, and for the activation of cell respiration.
It is certainly involved in energy of the cells together with the citric acid cycle.
an interesting part of the article says that: In a hyperacidic body the tissue is acid because of accumulation of acids and metabolic waste, whilst the pH value of the blood becomes more strongly alkaline.
Another interesting part:
A prescription of dextro rotatory lactic acid is indispensable, since this activates cell respiration, favourably influences the acid-alkaline balance, stimulates the activity of the organs responsible for detoxification and that of the adrenals, and strengthens the immune system by giving improved support to the functions of fermentation.
In years of experiments both Dr. Dr. Seeger and Dr. Reckeweg found that good therapeutic results are only obtainable when pure attenuations of dextro rotatory lactic acid are prescribed.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Also speaking of lactic acid.. I am still curious as to what about the weston price diet that has seemingly put Dr. Ron Schmid into remission or control or whatever of his lyme. From what I understand, he eats a lot of fermented vegetables, raw milk, close to raw meats.. yes.. and I think other ferments. Isnt that a lactic acid heavy diet or do I have that wrong?
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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lymeparfait
Unregistered
posted
Very Interesting about the lactic acid. I've always wondered if there was a connection with keeping lyme at bay.
My daughter (who has lyme and co.) has very high lactic acid build up due to her intense competitive swim practices. The coach tests the team regularly by taking blood pricks from their ear lobes during the work outs and measuring it for lactic acid build up. A MD comes to help him and they chart it on the computer during a two hour swim workout of varying intensities.
Hers is always very high very quickly, compared to the other swimmers. And it takes her longer in warm downs to release it, if she even does. It is interesting to see the difference in her graphs and the other swimmers. Her chart is a line that moves very high on a steep grade and stays high, where the others gradually show an incline and then a gradual decline. She cannot do the distance sets that the other swimmers can do, usually to lactic acid build up in her arms. She says they feel like lead.
The LLMD believes she is doing better physically than average with her symptoms because of the swimming. Even though she wonders how in the world she can exercise at that level of activity, knowing how sick she is. When she stops practicing for a while, she gets very sick. So she keeps it up!
I would love to know if there is a connection.
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How are you all judging when to start backing down the amount you consume?
How are you determining at what amount to start?
Does the Progurt company come up with an plan with you?
Thanks..
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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Selma, that article has amazing information! This may answer SO many questions, about how `lactic acid' seems to be both harmful and wonderful..... You may have provided the `missing link' here to the Progurt benefits!
I had no idea there were 2 types of lactic acid.... and as your quote pointed out, the dextro rotatory lactic acid (the L(+) form) could be a huge factor in detoxification, immune function, pH balance, cell respiration and oxygenation ......so many things we face with chronic illness.
I find this in my Repertories as `Sarcolactic Acid'. The remedy has been around forever! I'll have to read up on it.
Other quotes from the article:
quote:......L-lactic acid... and D-lactic acid.... This structural difference within the same summative formula results in their ability to rotate polarized light in different directions. [biophotons anyone?]
We therefore distinguish between dextro rotatory L(+)- and laevo rotatory (D-)-lactic acid, and their lactates.
....Laevo rotatory lactic acid [D- type], on the other hand, causes substantial damage to normal metabolism. It can result in intoxication, with neurological symptoms, dulling of consciousness and behavioural disturbances. This is also the reason why baby foods should never contain either D(-)-lactic acid or any racemate [combination of both lactic acids].
For a long time it was thought that aching muscles were the result of an accumulation of lactate. Today the cause is known to be minutely damaged and torn fibres.
Then is says:
quote:In products which are naturally fermented by lactic acid (milk, sauerkraut, beans, cucumbers) both forms of lactic acid occur as a mixture, a racemate.
By dint of skilful inoculation with the appropriate lactobacilli it is possible to promote the formation of L(+)-lactic acid in such products. [the good stuff]
.....A nutritional adjustment has to take place, with a move towards a diet rich in vital foods, free of products containing cow's milk, hen's eggs and pork.
So, cow's milk products are generally out, unless they are carefully `cultured' to produce the proper lactic acid..... (wonder why eggs are out?)
Hmmmm. Is this the secret of Progurt?!!.... They've carefully cultured the proper lactobacilli to generate the formation of the `beneficial' form of lactic acid - the L(+) form?
And wouldn't this explain why it is so VERY crucial that UHT or ultra-pasteurized milk be used to insure that no racemates (mixtures of lactic acids) occur during incubation?
I REALLY encourage others to read this article that Selma posted about.
The Ron Schmidt's story is of interest, R62 - apparently he is a proponent of raw mild and nearly raw animal products. Much of what he talked about I could relate to from experience - things that should make me feel better really didn't, etc.
LP, that is VERY interesting..... I had no idea they could `monitor' lactic acid levels in the body, for starters. I think we've hit on something important here.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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lymeparfait
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Tracy, I don't believe the average american gets tested for lactic acid levels. I only know that endurance athletes, particularly swimmers who swim distance events, like the mile or open water competitions learn to be aware of their levels. I would bet that runners do as well, like marathoners, although they don't have to deal with the resistance of water on their arm muscles as swimmers do with the lactic acid build up there.
I"m sure the Olympic Training Center in CO would have more info on this as they work with all high level athletes in each sport. They also are heavily involved in diet, nutrition, and hydration along with recovery. They probably could offer much data for any researcher.
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