dbpei
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posted
Thanks, Digby! I will look into this!
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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dbpei
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I just finished my 33rd dive and I have to tell you all, it is totally helping!!!!! My tinnitus is so much more tolerable and I feel different and better!
My guess is that the mHBOT has been hitting areas that antibiotics and herbs could not reach. I feel things happening in my most symptomatic areas (left side of skull, sinus, ear, face...) I know it is too soon to know for sure.
But I can't keep this in any longer! (afraid I would be jinxed if I spilled this too soon!) Thank you Phoiph - for sharing this invaluable mode of healing with us!
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:Originally posted by dbpei: I just finished my 33rd dive and I have to tell you all, it is totally helping!!!!! My tinnitus is so much more tolerable and I feel different and better!
My guess is that the mHBOT has been hitting areas that antibiotics and herbs could not reach. I feel things happening in my most symptomatic areas (left side of skull, sinus, ear, face...) I know it is too soon to know for sure.
But I can't keep this in any longer! (afraid I would be jinxed if I spilled this too soon!) Thank you Phoiph - for sharing this invaluable mode of healing with us!
Nice to hear Can you tell me How long are your dives and how often? What antibiotics and herbs were you using ? What ATA are you diving at? Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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dbpei
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Hominahomina, Here are some answers to your questions.... I don't know how to highlight things, so instead will use quotes.
"How long are your dives and how often?"
I have recently gotten up to a full hour with my mask on the entire time. I am trying to dive daily, but have had to miss a day or two weekly.
"What antibiotics and herbs were you using"?
I am using no ABX now, but have been taking Crypto-plus and Biocidin. I finished Biocidin about 2 weeks ago and I am going to let Crypto-plus run out and see how I do without it. I have been on multiple herbs and ABX in the past (both oral and IV) but have not been taking them for a few years now.
"What ATA are you diving at?"
1.3 ATA
I have a feeling mHBOT is so different for each person. And the way I feel also seems to change from day to day, even hour to hour. I am not feeling as well this morning as I had been last night when I wrote, but am still trying to stay positive and I hope to be able to use mHBOT for the long haul.
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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I still consider myself a newbie at 215 dives. There has definitely been a bit of up and down for me as well along this path. Although I recently had a health set back with the car accident, my gut stuff for which I originally started mHBOT (well, I started for mold exposure but stayed for gut symptoms) have been stable for quite awhile now. I am grateful for this therapy. Hang in there! Phoiph always reminds us-2 steps forward, one back. But the overall movement is forward. Glad you are here.
Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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carbokitty Are you diving an hour each dive and how often do you dive? I am also still young as a diver at around 200 dives I still get a lot of dieoff but it is not a bad as before so I think that is progress. diving at night makes it easier to go to sleep
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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I was diving daily, except for the occasional 2-4 day trips out of town. Starting Jan 5, I ended up with 18 days away from diving because we were driving cross country and then had the car accident. After that, I was able to go 4 times a week to a nearby clinic and dive for 1 hour a day. Since 2/5, I've been able to get back into my own chamber where I am able to do 1 hour dives with oxygen daily again.
As I said before, my body, etc is different now than it was a few weeks ago, pre-accident. I am dealing with detox from anesthesia and drugs. I am unable to move/exercise to any degree. (I have just moved from a knee scooter to partial weight bearing with 2 crutches). So I'm now detoxing from all that without the benefit of moving my qi (Chinese medicine term). I am attempting to support my detox as much as possible with some liver herbs, a homeopathic remedy for drainage, lots of water and "walking" within what I am able to do.
I find later dives wake me up or cause me to wake up earlier in the morning so I attempt to dive earlier in the day, before 3 as much as possible. We are all different, aren't we?
Best of luck in your journey.
Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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One bizarre take away is that Ben occasionally sleeps for 8 hours in his tank!
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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posted
I'm assuming he is using it the way some athletes do; without supplemental oxygen, just compressed air...
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
He wasn't clear on that. Normally he uses O2 but he didn't say if he did for the long sessions.
I think everyone here knows that an 8 hour dive would be disastrous to a sick person. Ben Greenfield is absurdly health, so he seems to survive it well. Although we don't know if he is getting some occult oxidative damage.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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posted
Yes, I hope everyone here understands that, but you never know about new people tuning in to the very end of the thread...
Looking forward to listening to the podcast, thanks, Digby!
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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One bizarre take away is that Ben occasionally sleeps for 8 hours in his tank!
I listened to most of it Thanks What two cents Digby? Also Phoiph What did you think?
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Hominahomina, sorry way too much to share. I would have to listen again and take notes. I just don't have the time or energy.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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I don’t know at what time you dive until the time you don’t feel well but this might help. Because I was journaling all my dives, my detoxes, and how I was feeling I narrowed it down to 7-9 hours after my chamber dive and the herxing would start. It would last for hours and after some detoxing would get better. Next day diving and the cycle would start again.
Posts: 238 | From AZ | Registered: Jan 2015
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posted
My herxing seems to be constant most days no matter what detoxing I try. About a week ago I decided to to take my mask off yet again and dive with the O2 flowing into the chamber. I’ve been feeling better since and feel like I may just need to continue this way because I’ve done this before, several times. I work back up to the hour with the mask or cannula on and then start feeling bad all the time again. I can’t live with this constant herxing, I need time without it to be able to cook so that I’m not eating restaurant food and to clean so I’m not breathing dirty air. Maybe I just need to dive with very low O2 all the time.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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I just completed my 200th dive. All is well. I'd also like to report on an alternative ramp up schedule that I've followed. The ramp up schedule was just something that kind of happened organically. I didn't really sit down and work it all out beforehand. But it seems to have worked well for me. And following it, I had very few episodes of herxing, strange symptoms, or days where I just couldn't go. Here's what I did.
Dive #1 was a test dive. I just wanted to test things out. So, I dove 5 minutes at pressure with full mask O2. Things went well. But when I got out of the chamber, I was like, "Whoa!". I could really feel that I had done "something". And as I've reported before, that night I dreamed like crazy for the first time in 20 years. I could tell something was going on for sure.
So, I continued to dive for just 5 minutes at pressure with full O2 mask, until the fifth night when I broke my hand, as described previously. And again, I was like "Whoa!". This is a serious therapy I'm dealing with here !
I dove for 5 minutes like this for two weeks. Then cautiously increased to 10 minutes, at pressure, full O2 mask. I did that for two weeks, and had a few significant symptoms. Then I increased to 15 minutes. And by this time, six weeks in, I was beginning to formulate a plan. Increase by 5 minutes every two weeks, full O2 mask the whole time. And so that's what I did.
It took me 175 dives to get to a full 1 hour at pressure with O2 mask. In other words, it took me about six months to achieve the commonly recommended dose of one hour at pressure ! That's a long time. But I didn't have many symptoms along the way, and I never had to stop and regress.
Hope this helps someone. Blessings to you all !
Posts: 15 | From Tennessee USA | Registered: Apr 2019
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posted
Elsworth I love your schedule. It shows you have the patience required to get to full health. Many people hurry along the schedule when it’s meant to be a starting point and tailored to ones needs.
This is not an overnight healing, it’s a consistent and patient process that takes time. I hesitate to say a long time because in my 51 years of life, 2 years was nothing to get my life back.
Thanks for posting.
Posts: 238 | From AZ | Registered: Jan 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Digby: Hominahomina, sorry way too much to share. I would have to listen again and take notes. I just don't have the time or energy.
Well you said two cents which made me think it was a little comment or two but in this case two cents is more
If you want to give just a small comment or two about your impression feel free
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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quote:Originally posted by Kaibyrd: My herxing seems to be constant most days no matter what detoxing I try. About a week ago I decided to to take my mask off yet again and dive with the O2 flowing into the chamber. I’ve been feeling better since and feel like I may just need to continue this way because I’ve done this before, several times. I work back up to the hour with the mask or cannula on and then start feeling bad all the time again. I can’t live with this constant herxing, I need time without it to be able to cook so that I’m not eating restaurant food and to clean so I’m not breathing dirty air. Maybe I just need to dive with very low O2 all the time.
Just out of curiosity how many dives have you done so far and at what pressure ? I ask because I still get dieoff but not as much as before Thanks in advance for your comment
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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I never was good at counting my dives. I’ve probably missed 15-20 days since starting a year ago January so I’ve been trying to figure out what my body needs for quite some time now. I’m at the usual 1.3 ata.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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I never was good at counting my dives. I’ve probably missed 15-20 days since starting a year ago January so I’ve been trying to figure out what my body needs for quite some time now. I’m at the usual 1.3 ata.
Have you tried NAC on an empty stomach a couple hours before a Coffee enema?
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33574
posted
Peimomma, that timing you observed is very interesting! I will try to pay more attention to changes in the way I am feeling during the hours before and after my dives.
My favorite time to dive is late afternoon. I think it is because my body is craving a rest by that time and I welcome it. I feel so relaxed in there. But I usually end up listening to pod casts or audible books instead of sleeping.
It is my head and ear symptoms that are the most troubling for me and there have been a few days/nights following my dives that I felt almost normal!
I am almost up to 40 dives now and I am noticing a subtle improvement over time. There have been very few treatments that could give me this relief, even if for a few hours. I hope and pray that the mHBOT is hitting something that even the IV ABX could not.
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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Have you tried NAC on an empty stomach a couple hours before a Coffee enema? [/QB]
No, I have tried NAC years ago alone but not with a CE. I’m kinda afraid to take things on an empty stomach though. It doesn’t like that. I end up really nauseated.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Have you tried NAC on an empty stomach a couple hours before a Coffee enema?
No, I have tried NAC years ago alone but not with a CE. I’m kinda afraid to take things on an empty stomach though. It doesn’t like that. I end up really nauseated. [/QB]
I take it on an empty stomach because it absorbs better ( I think) that way NAC is a precurser to glutathione and combining that with a CE (I find) increases glutathione I feel pretty good when I do this and it helps with dieoff I am not sure how that would work using NAC with food and then doing the CE Maybe someone else can comment on this
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
My naturopath had me on glutathione before I started mHBOT but she went out of business. I still have some but was afraid to finish it. NAC is better?
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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posted
KB- Glutathione is not very shelf stable and if you’ve had it awhile, it’s probably even less effective. NAC is shelf stable and therefore is thought ultimately to work better. It is converted to glutathione in the body and is not affected by exposure.
Hope this helps.
Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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posted
Kaibyrd...You basically want to avoid strong antioxidants. The thinking is that because one of the beneficial actions of mHBOT is to upregulate endogenous antioxidant activity within the cell, taking antioxidants could blunt that response.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kaibyrd: My naturopath had me on glutathione before I started mHBOT but she went out of business. I still have some but was afraid to finish it. NAC is better?
Like Carbokitty said NAC is a precursor to glutathione When I take it on an empty stomach it absorbs well I think Then I do a CE and feel quite good for an hour or two because I think it raises up glutathione quite a bit. It does not last very long unfortunately but it may give you relief from the herx.
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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Phoiph
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posted
Kaibyrd,
It is actually best to get your antioxidants (and other nutrients) from whole foods as much as possible.
Antioxidants (especially high doses) taken in isolation don't always have the same effects.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I just want to clarify, by strong antioxidants I mean, supplemental glutathione, Super Oxide Dismutase, Catalase, CoQ10, Pycnogenol, Vitamin E, etc.
I agree with Phoiph...best way to get antioxidants is through food and mHBOT. I do still use them for occasional, specific, purposes like fighting off a virus. Of course then I will use high doses which in the case of Vitamin C becomes an oxidant.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Digby: Kaibyrd...You basically want to avoid strong antioxidants. The thinking is that because one of the beneficial actions of mHBOT is to upregulate endogenous antioxidant activity within the cell, taking antioxidants could blunt that response.
That is interesting Can you share some reference material on that Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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Phoiph
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Homina,
You are probably not going to have the luxury of finding specific studies, but you can connect the dots and make reasonable deductions from the information in the above articles.
Let us know if you find anything more specific!
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posted
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?
I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝
I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Kaibyrd: So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?
I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝
I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?
I don't think anyone here can answer those questions with authority we can share our research and personal experience but we are not Doctors versed in mHBOT as far as I know
(If there are any here please comment)
Do you have a Doctor you can talk to about these matters? Those are good question so I am going to try to talk to a couple Doctors who consult at the Hbot center where I started. I will report back if I find anything out
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Thank you Homina. I’m not really looking for an authoritative answer, just someone who can help me interpret these studies. I literally cannot read them and absorb what I’m reading any more. I used to be able to but no more.
No I don’t have a doctor to talk to, not really. I have a good doctor but I only get to see her for a few minutes every 4 to 6 months. My next appointment isn’t until May. If I want a Lyme literate doctor, I have to pay $500 a visit and they want me there once a month. I’ve tried 2 in my area. They did more harm than good.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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posted
Kaibird,
I understand!
Digby is very knowledgeable re supplements. I'm sure he will help answer your questions.
I personally believe in keeping it as simple as possible, and getting as many nutrients as you can through whole foods, especially when you are trying to heal your gut.
I was unable to take supplements when I began mHBOT, and I believe it was for the best. I could only handle 5 or 6 foods, how could I expect to handle concentrated pills?
IMO, many supplements are too complex for the body to process when the digestive system is impaired.
I do believe a liquid magnesium is helpful.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Do you know of a liquid magnesium that has several different types (malate, citrate, ascorbate, etc)? That’s what I take in capsule since some types alone upset my tummy. I must take these supplements I listed above just to help me get through my day. Without them or something similar, my issues get worse so I really hope they aren’t interfering with what the mHBOT is supposed to be doing. I’ve worried about them since I read the beginning of this thread but I couldn’t find an answer and don’t know what else to do without them.
My diet is pretty varied and I don’t find much that bothers me food wise except processed foods and sugar which can make my joint pain really bad. I stick to organic as much as I can which is a good bit except for those days when cooking is just beyond me. Some days, getting out of bed is beyond what I’m capable of. 🤷🏻♀️
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Does anyone here track their heart rate? I have a fitbit that I wear. I found that last year and the year before when I was in the moldy condo that my heart rate went up. I could feel it and I could see the difference in numbers on the tracker.
I recently started having a back-slide-an increase in looser stools. After a particularly bad morning like I haven't had since late October, I went back over my spreadsheet where I track my dives, sleep, stools, changes in supplements and food and I was really surprised that there was a subtle but obvious decline in my stools when I started using my chamber in our current airbnb. For 2 weeks prior, I went to a clinic 4 days a week and before that, I'd had surgery/anesthesia and before that the car accident and before that driving for 8-9 days and no diving. Throughout it all and until diving in my own chamber again at this new location, my stools were formed. Hmmm.
Then I started looking at the info collected by the fitbit and I noticed that my heart rate had started to climb again, also after using my chamber here. One of the nice benefits I enjoyed from diving was a slowing of my heart rate and my heart rate had been pretty stable for quite a few months.
So now I'm worried that there is something ambient that I'm breathing in in this airbnb even though I/we can't smell any mold. I'm not really having other symptoms (sleep problems, increased urination). I am having some mild depression but I've attributed that to the accident, being on crutches, not being able to do the things I had planned and dreamed of doing while I am here. I am also not getting exercise and that always helps my mood.
I skipped diving the day before yesterday. Yesterday and today I dove without the mask on but with O2 coming into the chamber. I have now just ordered a new mask to see if maybe something has grown in the tubing. Just wondering if anyone else tracks their heart rate and what they experience.
Have a great dive today!
Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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posted
Carbokitty, How long has it been since the surgery? I’m just remembering my last surgeries, it took me months to get my anxiety under control, which affected my entire system; loose stools, heart rate, appetite, etc. The anesthesia was the trigger both times. Just a thought.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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Member # 41238
posted
Kaibyrd~
I add ReMag magnesium and Concentrace minerals to my filtered drinking water. They are both liquid.
You must follow the directions and work up gradually to the desired amount.
Please remind me, are you are off of gluten and grains? Do you do bone broth regularly? Are you eating good fats?
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33574
posted
I know we have had a lot of discussion recently about oxidative stress. The doctor who runs the MBHOT clinic where I was first oriented to it, wants me to take a month off after having done 40 dives. He is going to have me take a urine test to measure either anti-oxidants or some measure of telling whether I need more.
I am willing to do this, but hope by taking a month off, it will not set back any progress I've made. I have read that mild HBOT does not have the same effect as full pressure HBOT with regard to oxidative stress.
Has anyone here had to take time off and resume diving? And if so, did you have to start slow again with regard to duration and the O2 mask?
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