posted
You can culture any probiotic from a previous batch, but the mix of bacteria will change over successive batches because some bacteria proliferate easier/faster than others. Eventually, you would end up with yogurt that contained predominantly one or two strains.
All probiotic manufacturers are telling people they can't culture successive batches because people have been doing just that and it's depressed sales. Fact is, if it cultured in the first place, you can culture it from an existing batch. You don't want to do that more than a couple of times, but it is doable.
Most probiotic products probably have some contamination in them because the quantity of oxygen in the air is significantly lower than when people started making fermented products a couple of hundred years ago. Some manufacturers are controlling the oxygen levels in the vat as a way to improve the quality of the probiotics.
In order for probiotics to implant they have to be grown in a specific way in a colony. Most manufacturers don't do that because it is expensive and difficult and would likely lead to lower sales. Also, if your lymph glands ar clogged, then I've heard that the probiotics won't implant.
These are some of the things I uncovered by reading research papers and talking to people in the industry. I have not tried progurt yet, but will. I'll post my experience with culturing and taking it when I do.
Posts: 47 | From nj | Registered: May 2004
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lymeparfait
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How is everyone doing with progurt?
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Truthfinder
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Eds, most of what you say certainly sounds right. What I'd like to understand better are things like human versus bovine-strain bacteria, the ability of our human systems to implant ANY kind of bovine probiocs, whether most commercial products are as beneficial as we are led to believe, etc.
I'll say one thing.... the 'non-Progurt' sachets that I've ingested now for 9 days have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me. In fact, I'm so bound up right now I could scream. It's probably the dang commercial applesause I've been mixing it with - known to cause me problems, but you would think the 1 billion bugs mixed in there would sort of override that problem.
Whatever the problem is, I haven't gained a thing from the non-Progurt bugs.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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Here's something you might all appreciate.... I found this extremely disturbing.
Amateurs are trying genetic engineering at home By MARCUS WOHLSEN (Associated Press Writer) From Associated Press December 26, 2008 11:44 AM EST
In her San Francisco dining room lab, for example, 31-year-old computer programmer Meredith L. Patterson is trying to develop genetically altered yogurt bacteria that will glow green to signal the presence of melamine, the chemical that turned Chinese-made baby formula and pet food deadly......
But critics of the movement worry that these amateurs could one day unleash an environmental or medical disaster. ....
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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Truthfinder, are you saying that you are doing something entirely different from Progurt or taking the Progurt sachets but not in the normal incubated form?
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Something entirely different from Progurt.
It comes in little sachets, but it isn't Progurt (and it doesn't claim to be human strain, isn't designed to be incubated, etc.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I just received my Progurt incubator and was not happy with the plastic insert. You should never use plastic with heat and a fat based food. You are eating oil for all practical purposes. All of us already have many environmental toxins and do not need to add to the problem. An old fashion GLASS quart milk bottle fits snug in the incubator. The bottle is about 3.25"x3.5"x8". I would highly suggest all using this device to switch to glass. You can find these bottles anywhere, even on EBay. Just my two cents, hope it helps a few. Posts: 43 | From Byron, MI | Registered: Dec 2002
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SForsgren
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Read their web site on what the plastic does NOT contain. I think they've already considered this. They are also working on a glass version as I understand, but I think if you read their web site, you will have less concern. Also, the incubator does not get very hot. Before suggesting people do something different, I would suggest understanding the company statement on their existing plastic. I don't think it appears to be all that bad and already considered by the company.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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There is no way for us to measure the probiotic viability in doing an experiment such as this. So, personally, for 70 dollars, it makes no sense to me why one would risk it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Things the `USA Progurt Lady' told me:
The Progurt incubator was originally designed to hold the actual containers that 1-liter UHT milk comes in (in Australia), so no inserts at all were used, at first. So, it's possible that UHT containers in other countries are the same, and the Progurt could be made in those, as an alternative to the plastic insert.
The incubation is all about temperature for the Progurt. The Progurt should be incubated at a specific temperature. I don't know what that temperature is - you'd have to ask Robert. And again, if you start with chilled milk, you'll have to extend the incubation time.
Also, the USA Progurt Lady does intend to stock Progurt sachets as long as we ``Lyme people' want them, but nothing else at this point (no incubators, no prebiotic syrup, etc.). So, if you are interested in saving some postage on re-orders of product, you might consider ordering the sachets from her. (No, I'm not affiliated with her, don't know her, don't make any money from this, she's not a LymeNet member, etc. Just passing on information.) She got her e-mail link fixed so you can e-mail her or call. Here's a link to the order page:
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Amy (from betterway2health) told me to inform the group she has progurt satchets back in stock. Not the incubator, just the satchets.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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SForsgren
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So happy to hear that ZM. I definitely believed this product was a remarkable one and that seems to be proving out. It is great to hear reports like yours. I continue to feel it is providing benefit as well.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I do not understand why people are starting with such a high dose of progurt. When I talked to the company they guy recommended 1/2 cup per day. You are still getting a lot of bacteria with 1/2 cup. One liter of progurt according to their site is like 1,000 capsules of probiotics. Who would take 1,000 capsules of probiotics in one day?
I also don't understand why they say to avoid other yogurts or probiotics. Even if a probiotic is bovine, why wouldn't that be okay, too.
I did talk to the company, but the nice man spent most of his time talking about sea salt and evading my questions for some reason.
Glad it is working for you who are using it.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10180 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
This starting dose was recommended by the founder of the company. Both initial dose and .5 liter dose checked with muscle testing.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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'Kete-tracker
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It's amazing how many posts the mention of this particular product has generated.. & it's always on Pg 1 or 2 of Med. Q?s. Wow.
Now... not to knock it at all but Please Try my sister's hi-school classmate's product: Stonyfield Yoghurt (from NH). Add it to your yoghurt diet mix. I alwys found it to be good stuff. Been buying the plain quarts since 1985. Available at supermarket chains in most major cities. thankyou Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I've tried calling the company numerous times and gotten either voicemail which they never return or a message saying the inbox is full. Am I dialing the wrong number or what?
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
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posted
dan--you are aware the company is based in australia right? So be sure you're calling during office hours aussie time
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Wish I found this thread a few days ago. I started the progurt at smaller levels than Scott and Joey thinking less is less good but not bad. After 3 days I had so much gas pain and reflux I thought I must be super allergic to milk.
After reading these posts, I relize that all that was from the war going on in my gut. The good guys fighting the disbiosis.
So, I will go back to making it with milk. I did Soy this batch even though they don't seem pro Soy over at Progurt. DId I read coorectly that someone was using hemp milk?
How did that go?
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
The hemp milk has gone well for my family member. If your gas pain & reflux doesn't subside, I am not positive you should be making it with regular milk. I do believe some people are truly allergic.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sixgoofykids
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You can be allergic to casein in the milk ... so even though the lactose may not be a problem in the Progurt, the casein might. If you have gluten issues, it's even more likely that you have casein issues too.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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So far, it seems few people are having a problem with Progurt - even with dairy.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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sixgoofykids
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Oh, yeah, didn't mean to suggest there were.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hmmmm. What about coconut milk or young coconut water? That has fat and sugar.
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Truthfinder
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Has anyone had any additional phlegm or mucus issues with Progurt made with milk?
(I'm assuming no since it hasn't been mentioned, but this is something I get from even small amounts of cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. - not just unfermented milk products.)
Also, are there any Progurt users who ARE NOT using the prebiotic that the Progurt people sell?
I did find some ultra-pasteurized goat's milk here locally. I don't know if I'd do that first, or try the cow's milk first. Well, at least I have options....
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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I've learned some important points in making Progurt recently. There was some initial confusion about Horizon Organic milk being good enough for making Progurt and that is what I had been using. The batches, though still somewhat beneficial, were coming out watering and lumpy.
In working with Robert, we measured temperatures at various times during the incubation process, etc. and found no problems. Then I read the milk bottle and it was not UHT but just regular Horizon organic. NOT good enough.
Apparently, there are still bacteria in such a product that when incubated will compete with the Progurt bacteria and result in a less powerful batch...and less appealing texture/consistency wise as well. In this event when the batch is lumpy, Robert suggested I toss it as it was not properly made.
It's best to start with room temperature milk - UHT only.
1) Wash the tub AND lid between each batch in the dishwasher. 2) Wash hands with soap. 3) Do not touch the inside of the lid or tub with your hands. 4) Put in 1/2 a tub of the UHT milk above from the 1 liter box it comes in. 5) Add the Progurt sachet. 6) Stir with a chopstick for 20 seconds 7) Add the remaining milk. 8) Cover with the lid 9) Incubate for 14 hours
That's the current steps I am using and I can definitely tell a difference.
If you do not use UHT milk, then you have to:
1) Boil the milk 2) Simmer for 15 minutes (need to find my notes on the number of minutes to validate) 3) Cool to room temperature 4) Make as per above
Hope that helps.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymeparfait
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Any reports from my progurt friends?
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posted
I swicthed to trying Goat's Milk, Soy and even Hemp Milk. Isee no great changes. FOr the expense, it hasn't been a wash for me. A firend without Lyme is taking it. SHe had real bad candida and a totally white tongue. After a mointh of Progurt, noi more candida tongue and she can eat almost any food now. Has been great for her!
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004
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SForsgren
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I found a MAJOR increase in benefit of the product after going to UHT Milk. If you are not using UHT milk, it isn't the full power in my experience. As for Soy, Hemp, etc., I don't think they produce a full-benefit product either.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I am gonna try with UHT milk again, making sure it is room temp, over 16 hours of fermentation, etc. Using the brand Scott recently suggested. The last time I tried it with milk I had extrme gut pain, thinking I may be alergic to milk (even though teh AI test said no). We shall see.
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004
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SForsgren
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Some comments I received today via email from a lady I believe with Lyme that is using Progurt:
No more ringing in my ears, memory and thinking better, sleeping so much better, less pain in knees, more energy, no relapse in several months, sometimes 2 bowel movements a day, no more hip or back pain, hair loss ended . . . .
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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WOW.
Hobo, how much Progurt are you consuming a day?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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Zombie, are you still using Progurt? Would like to hear how you are doing with it. Thanks
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymeparfait
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How is everyone doing?
I am having trouble finding the UHT milk!
Anyone know of resources for this near NJ?
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Truthfinder
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LP, are you looking on the shelf in the canned milk department? It comes in a 'box'. I found it at only ONE store - a big discount store (Walmart). They have it at Amazon.com if you can't find it locally.
A close 2nd option would be 'ultra plasteurized' whole milk in the refrigerator section. It's so devoid of microbes that you can't even make cheese with it. I found that at one grocery store here.
(I'm not doing the Progurt, BTW - it seems I've got gall bladder malfunction so trying to get that working better first.)
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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I order my milk for Progurt from Amazon.com. You can get Organic Valley UHT there.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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runner21
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Does anyone know the distributor that is here in the US? WHat is UHT?
Posts: 1118 | From jacksonville,fl usa/santa rosa ca | Registered: Dec 2001
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runner21
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Yes, Zombie, how does the progurt compare to your GI prohealth starter?
Posts: 1118 | From jacksonville,fl usa/santa rosa ca | Registered: Dec 2001
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Truthfinder
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UHT milk is pasteurized at an 'ultra high temperature'. It needs no refrigeration (at least until opened.)
Here's the link to the order page for the USA Progurt supplier:
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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The USA progurt supplier does not have the incubator as I understand. I've been getting mine direct from Progurt.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Correct, Scott. She only carries the Progurt sachets (packets).
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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lymeparfait
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Amazon's price is over 80.00 for 12 cartons, most is shipping cost!
Was looking t see if I could find it anywhere more locally.
I have been all over my area looking for it.
I have been using the Organic Valley WHole MIlk in the refrigerator section for th epast three months...just thought I wuld try to find the cartons of the UHT again, without paying the Amazon rate.
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SForsgren
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I was able to order it with free shipping at the time. Some Whole Foods carry it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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