Ya I saw some of the aforementioned pictures on Page 13, but those were anaplasma in granulocytes.
I did find some pictures of lymphocytes on Google, but I always like first-hand pics better.
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: You guys are upper echelon here, and there are many newbies there who need some direction.
I always post the most interesting stuff here, when I find it & try to collect new technology over there, as there are tons of it really. Also the newbies will see everything as pathogenic if they do not have some direction & even then they might be resistant & not believe at times.
Peter is there, but s13 has not identified himself. I may send him an email. There are a lot more lurkers there than posters.
Borrelia, babs, & bart can be with infection but asymptomatic & I so no reason why other organisms can present this way. Especially TBD's.
The first video: That is a common appearance of erythrocytes. Some of the erythrocytes that lack the same mass as others will appear like that. If you think of the common appearnce of RBC's as inner tube like this: http://arogyamasthu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/red_blood_cells.jpg That appearance is compounded with darkfield, so they will appear to have a depression in the center as opposed to being a solidly round object. You all will see it with your darkfield. It might not be as pronounced depending on your microscope, but it will always be present.
So that is a common appearance of RBC's.
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TNT
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Here you go....
A morula in a Natural Killer Lymphocyte:
In a regular Lymphocyte:
A mostly phagocytized morula in a Natural Killer Lymphocyte:
Morula in a Monocyte:
Individual bacteria being engulfed by a Neutrophil:
Morula in a Neutrophil:
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TNT
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What do you think, mustardseed2? Pretty wild, huh?
Speaking for myself, I know it just blows my mind that this is a relatively very healthy individual with only a few minor health complaints. Especially since this can be a life-threatening infection.
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TNT that's beautiful stuff! Really good pictures!
Ya crazy this can be from a mostly healthy person. And then some of us are really struggling with blood that doesn't look nearly as bad.
The reason this interests me is because back in 2015 I tested positive for Anaplasmosis through Igenex.
I've never seen morula in any of my white blood cells, but I keep on eye on them because of my previous test results (though I have treated with antibiotics since)
I have a particular interest in lymphocyte inclusions because I often see small purple dots (similar to the small dots in your first picture) in lymphocytes (specifically the ones like your second picture).
I don't know what those inclusions are, but they're obviously too small to be morula. It could be a stain artifact, but I'm not sure since they only show up in those particular WBC's.
I'll have to try to grab a picture sometime.
Thanks again for the great pics!
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by mustardseed2: I have a particular interest in lymphocyte inclusions because I often see small purple dots (similar to the small dots in your first picture) in lymphocytes (specifically the ones like your second picture).
I don't know what those inclusions are, but they're obviously too small to be morula. It could be a stain artifact, but I'm not sure since they only show up in those particular WBC's.
I'll have to try to grab a picture sometime.
Thanks again for the great pics!
If your inclusions are like what is shown in my first pic, what you are viewing are Natural Killer Lymphocytes (the CD57 WBCs). That's what they look like (minus the morula, of course). So, it's good you are seeing those. I'm not sure why they have those larger granules in them, but that's just the way they are. If you look a few pages back, I came across them myself for the first time and thought the inclusions had to be a Rickettsia, but after looking into it further, realized they were our beloved CD57 cells. My blood has very few of them, but this friend's blood has many. That's why I doubt he has Lyme.
[ 02-17-2017, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: TNT ]
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by mustardseed2: I've never seen morula in any of my white blood cells, but I keep on eye on them because of my previous test results (though I have treated with antibiotics since)
Just a caution as you look. Other things can look like morulas, and it can be difficult to discern the difference.
The most common finding are platelets. It can be almost impossible to discern the difference. Platelets on/in WBCs usually have a LIGHT BLUE cytoplasmic "halo" around them in a Wright-Giemsa stain. Morulas have a clear "halo" around them if they have a clearing. Many times they don't. It depends on how far along they are in the phagocytosis process.
The other possibility are Dohle bodies. These tend to be lighter in color, usually light blue/gray in a Wright Giemsa stain.
I feel the most comfortable calling something a morula when I can see definite individual elemental bodies comprising the morula and absent a light blue halo/periphery.
Peripheral blood smear from a cat infected with A. phagocytophilum. The thick black arrow shows a morula within the cytoplasm of a neutrophil. The thin black arrow shows a Döhle body for comparison. Wright-Giemsa stain.
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My WBC's that have those inclusions (small dots) are the WBC type in your second picture... regular Lymphocytes.
Regular Lymphocytes with the small dot inclusions seen in your natural killer cells.
Could be normal.
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Lymedin2010
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Your stains are awesome TNT & I am still trying to perfect mine, as energy permits. Thanks for the insightful lecture!
On another note, usually I dismiss any Babesia crosses I see in DF videos, as they are very rare and hard to find & they could easily be surface light diffraction anomalies. But this one is rather convincing. The Maltese cross forms within the rbc appear to move as well. Also, some adjacent rbc's have what look like merozoites escaping from the rbc & are on the EDGES of the rbc, which adds to the support. (bottom left quadrant in this video).
TNT
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Thanks for the compliments fellows.
quote:Originally posted by mustardseed2: I have a particular interest in lymphocyte inclusions because I often see small purple dots (similar to the small dots in your first picture) in lymphocytes (specifically the ones like your second picture).
I don't know what those inclusions are, but they're obviously too small to be morula. It could be a stain artifact, but I'm not sure since they only show up in those particular WBC's.
I'll have to try to grab a picture sometime.
Definitely put some up. I'm very interested in seeing some pics of what you're finding.
I made a stained smear and a wet mount the other day and just got done viewing them. The live blood revealed very few spirochetes. For that I'm very pleased. I viewed it over a couple days and the ones that exited are the only ones I saw. I didn't notice any crystals/granules, but did notice a couple gemma cysts. I only viewed it in dark phase, so it's possible I would have seen more gemma cysts if I had also viewed it in darkfield. (They are more easily seen with darkfield). Next time I think I will switch over to darkfield as well, just to be sure.
About the stained slide, though. I saw only a couple leukocytes with possible morulas. So, very low to no load. I am pleased with that, but want to see none.
But the thing that really caught my attention and is a bit alarming is marked leukopenia. I have been seeing this all along, but it really stood out to me after viewing my friend's blood. It also appeared that the leukopenia was worse than it's been. I'll soon know for sure if my absolutes are out of range because I'm getting a CBC/CMP done soon.
Anaplasma and Ehrlichia can cause leukopenia (for obvious reasons), but I recently read that Babesia can cause it too.
The other surprise in the article was that Babesia can cause atypical lymphocytes.... another thing I've noticed with my blood. Babesia treatment is on the plate, so we'll see how that goes.
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TNT, hopefully your load continues to go down.
What treatment are you on right now?
I too have leukopenia. Neutropenia to be exact.
I was positive for Anaplasmosis through Igenex, and been diagnosed clinically for Babesia by my LLMD (I also herx HUGE on Babesia medications).
Unfortunately I haven't seen either Babesia or Anaplasma in my blood, so I don't know which is causing the lack of white cells. You are correct though, it could be either one.
The other white cells to keep an eye on with Babesia are eosinophils. Traditionally they're elevated in parasitic infections, but they can also be elevated in Babesia infections.
Schaller goes into detail about this in his Babesia book, but here's an article about it as well:
When I started Alinia, I got severe eosinophilia for about 2 weeks. My CBC numbers were off the chart. When I looked at my blood smear, it was almost scary. There were eosinophils everywhere! I'd say like at least 4-5 eosinophils for every 1 other white blood cell.
Ok, anyway, here's a picture of what I was describing before, though I think this is a monocyte.
Note the purple dot near the top of the cell. Sometimes I see 2 or 3 of them in a single cell. Often they're in lymphocytes too.
Any idea what this is?
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TNT
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mustardseed2, I'll answer some of your questions later, as I don't feel well at all right now.
Just a quick address to your inclusion. I am wondering if what you're seeing is Staphylococci contamination. Especially if you are seeing this in more than just the lymphocytes (that pic above is a lymphocyte). I do wonder if those pics of the erythrocytes you showed earlier might be showing staph contamination and not H-J bodies. Maybe not, but could be. I've seen staph contamination on my slides already.
Show us more examples of this if you can. It may help us figure it out.
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This is my blood under 100x oil 24 hours after sampling. This sample was taken after a month long high-dose abx: minocycline, tinidazole and diflucan, taken sequentially and alternating. Pretty horrifying, isn't it? There are the long forms, pearl of necklace forms, round forms, and tiny baby ones that seem to have broken off the pearl of necklace. It seems majority of the red blood cells are infected as well. Has anyone seen as bad picture/video as this one? It clearly shows that abx doesn't work?
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TNT, I am also interested in what treatment you used to make spirochete load go down.
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TNT
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Hi rainboworiver,
I feel that BVT (bee venom therapy) has been the main reason my loads have come down. I've been on different ABX combinations since starting BVT, and feel that BVT WITH ABX has helped me the most. I was not getting anywhere with only ABX, and I don't feel that I would have made the gains I have with BVT alone.
The link you gave us does not go directly to your video. Furthermore, it reveals a personal email address. Your's maybe? I would try to get your email address concealed if it's yours, and try a different venue for posting your video.
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This is my blood under 100x oil 24 hours after sampling. This sample was taken after a month long high-dose abx: minocycline, tinidazole and diflucan, taken sequentially and alternating. Pretty horrifying, isn't it? There are the long forms, pearl of necklace forms, round forms, and tiny baby ones that seem to have broken off the pearl of necklace. It seems majority of the red blood cells are infected as well. Has anyone seen as bad picture/video as this one? It clearly shows that abx doesn't work?
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TNT, thanks for your reply on BVT. May I ask what brand of bee venom you use and where to buy? Also is it oral and injection?
Sending healing vibes to everyone here.
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TNT
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mustardseed2, in response to your question about treatment, the short answer is I'm still in transition. I had already started Malarone a few weeks ago and was doing ok on it. But when I increased the dose, I felt incredibly bad, so had to quit for while.
rainboworiver, I use the real stuff. Live bee stings. Thanks for sharing the video! I could be mistaken, but I see what appear to be a number of rod bacteria. Could you tell us what you have been tested for and diagnosed with?
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TNT
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I'm looking at those rods again, and they are smaller than typical rods. They easily could be bacteria, but I wouldn't rule out the slight possibility of an apicomplexan, though.
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Yes, there are rod forms. Did you see the string of pearl form in the last few seconds of the video? is that spirochete? or do you see any spirochete? What are those really long forms?
I have been tested positive for lyme, bartonella, protomyxzoa (dr. fry's bug) and viruses.
Thanks for taking the time to look at my video.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: TNT,
Yes, there are rod forms. Did you see the string of pearl form in the last few seconds of the video? is that spirochete? or do you see any spirochete? What are those really long forms?
I have been tested positive for lyme, bartonella, protomyxzoa (dr. fry's bug) and viruses.
Thanks for taking the time to look at my video.
Yes, definitely there are a few "typical" spirochetes. And those surely look like SoPs (string of pearls) at the end of the video. They are comprised of small pearls that are not attached to a red blood cell (versus large pearls attached to a RBC). So, yes, I have no doubt they are what Dr. Alan MacDonald talks about in his videos.
I tend to think those really long strings are spirochetes as well. Some might claim they are fibrin, but I've seen fibrin spicules and they are straight, unlike these undulating long strings.
WOW! Do you normally see that many "rods" in your samples?
That's interesting you tested positive for Bart and PR (Protomyxzoa Rheumatica). Have you been able to make any progress with either of those infections?
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I don't normally see so many rods. But after high dose of minocycline, I got this. I wonder if it is due to minocycline. Very discouraging! I have stopped all abx for now. I was treated with extensive abx combos and anti-parasite meds. I have not made much progress. I may have to give live bee sting a try although I don't this idea. How many stings a day do you get?
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: I don't normally see so many rods. But after high dose of minocycline, I got this. I wonder if it is due to minocycline. Very discouraging! I have stopped all abx for now. I was treated with extensive abx combos and anti-parasite meds. I have not made much progress. I may have to give live bee sting a try although I don't this idea. How many stings a day do you get?
That's very interesting. I'll have to think on that one a while. What are your dominant symptoms? Have your symptoms changed with the appearance of the rods?
I'll have to see if I can ID those small singular rods.
Have you ever been tested for other Rickettsias such as Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, or Brucellosis?
Have you given any consideration to doing some Giemsa stains since you obviously have your own scope?
BVT is great! And easy! I know I wouldn't be where I'm at now if it wasn't for BVT! It's literally been a life-saver for some people. Check out Ellie Lobel's videos on Utube. Or, google her story.
I do at least 10 stings every other day. Sometimes more. I've done as many as 16 a couple times, but found that was a bit strong. It stirs up my symptoms too much at that. The biggest plus with BVT for me has been the improvement in my coordination issues. I have PD-like, MS-like, and even ALS-like issues. There have been marked improvements. The ABX have been helping too, but I was just spinning my wheels with ABX until commencing BVT. For me, BVT WITH ABX has been the way forward.
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Yes, I forgot to mention. I tested positive for Ehrlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted fever and Anaplasma. But doxcy in my case minocycline is supposed to kill these kritters.
where do you sting yourself? does the location matter?
Symptom wise, I have been the same before and after abx. Some good days and some bad days. On good days, I can function. On bad days, I stay in bed.
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Could you please also give me the link to purchase Giemsa stain? It is a little overwhelming with the all these things.
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bluelyme
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quote:Originally posted by TNT:
quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: I don't normally see so many rods. But after high dose of minocycline, I got this. I wonder if it is due to minocycline. Very discouraging! I have stopped all abx for now. I was treated with extensive abx combos and anti-parasite meds. I have not made much progress. I may have to give live bee sting a try although I don't this idea. How many stings a day do you get?
That's very interesting. I'll have to think on that one a while. What are your dominant symptoms? Have your symptoms changed with the appearance of the rods?
I'll have to see if I can ID those small singular rods.
Have you ever been tested for other Rickettsias such as Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, or Brucellosis?
Have you given any consideration to doing some Giemsa stains since you obviously have your own scope?
BVT is great! And easy! I know I wouldn't be where I'm at now if it wasn't for BVT! It's literally been a life-saver for some people. Check out Ellie Lobel's videos on Utube. Or, google her story.
I do at least 10 stings every other day. Sometimes more. I've done as many as 16 a couple times, but found that was a bit strong. It stirs up my symptoms too much at that. The biggest plus with BVT for me has been the improvement in my coordination issues. I have PD-like, MS-like, and even ALS-like issues. There have been marked improvements. The ABX have been helping too, but I was just spinning my wheels with ABX until commencing BVT. For me, BVT WITH ABX has been the way forward.
bvt has helped me too last year i thought i was dying als sx too...still covering gram neg and doing iv abx supp herbs etc .. i have used the injectable venom and its not as hot gotta mix with procaine and not as affordable as live bees ...i have a hive and plant flowers to teplace the ones that give their lives .a good queen will lay a 1000 eggs a day . sapi is suppoda release her 33 page paper on venom soon. Mustard and i cheat with this quik dip http://www.shopmedvet.com/product/dip-quick-stain-kit-complete-kit/Laboratory-Equipment-and-Supplies-Stains
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: I don't normally see so many rods. But after high dose of minocycline, I got this. I wonder if it is due to minocycline. Very discouraging! I have stopped all abx for now. I was treated with extensive abx combos and anti-parasite meds. I have not made much progress. I may have to give live bee sting a try although I don't this idea. How many stings a day do you get?
That's very interesting. I'll have to think on that one a while. What are your dominant symptoms? Have your symptoms changed with the appearance of the rods?
I'll have to see if I can ID those small singular rods.
Have you ever been tested for other Rickettsias such as Anaplasma, Ehrlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, or Brucellosis?
Have you given any consideration to doing some Giemsa stains since you obviously have your own scope?
BVT is great! And easy! I know I wouldn't be where I'm at now if it wasn't for BVT! It's literally been a life-saver for some people. Check out Ellie Lobel's videos on Utube. Or, google her story.
I do at least 10 stings every other day. Sometimes more. I've done as many as 16 a couple times, but found that was a bit strong. It stirs up my symptoms too much at that. The biggest plus with BVT for me has been the improvement in my coordination issues. I have PD-like, MS-like, and even ALS-like issues. There have been marked improvements. The ABX have been helping too, but I was just spinning my wheels with ABX until commencing BVT. For me, BVT WITH ABX has been the way forward.
bvt has helped me too last year i thought i was dying als sx too...still covering gram neg and doing iv abx supp herbs etc .. i have used the injectable venom and its not as hot gotta mix with procaine and not as affordable as live bees ...i have a hive and plant flowers to teplace the ones that give their lives .a good queen will lay a 1000 eggs a day . sapi is suppoda release her 33 page paper on venom soon. Mustard and i cheat with this quik dip http://www.shopmedvet.com/product/dip-quick-stain-kit-complete-kit/Laboratory-Equipment-and-Supplies-Stains
And by cheating Blue means spending about 1/10th the time and getting results that look just as good
Seriously that quick dip stuff is great, it's what vets use for quick, in-house diagnostics.
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Lymedin2010
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Nikon Labophot 2 Fluorescence Microscope US $595.00
Lymedin2010
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I will vouch for the dip quick & it produces faster & better results than with the stuff TNT and I bought. How long are you drying your Peripheral Blood Smears for before dipping? I need to go back & do more stains when energy permits.
Rainbow, nice video but they may not be true spiros either. There are false spiros in blood as well. I have some evidence that the rbc cell wall can shed some of these things that look like spirochetes. There most definitely are spirochetes in our blood in those later infected & I provided a bunch of scientific evidence to show this. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MyMicroscope/permalink/1646490118967316/
I don't know if I can use SOP as a judge anymore, after some experiments revealed that the rbc can shed & release these too. The people who work with cultured Borrelia say SOP is seen in in vitro cultures though and so maybe both can exist. I have seen segmentation of spiros in ticks though, but not sop yet.
We all need to take the next step & silver stain, fluorescent stain and culture. We should do a group buy on BSK-H...anyone interested?
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Lymedin2010
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My uBiome skin test came in. Most of these are normal flora & do not pose a problem. They can however in newborns, elderly, or immuno compromised. So they tested 5 different areas for $89...and how much are we paying for Lyme tests again? I will post all of them as they come in.
89% of all Skin samples are less diverse than your sample.
11% of all Skin samples are more diverse than your sample."
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bluelyme
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Cool test ..thanks lymed2010.. drying for @10 min bsk culture medium like dude? Did he ever get a fluorescent scope? drooling over that nikon...
-------------------- Blue Posts: 1539 | From southwest | Registered: Dec 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: I will vouch for the dip quick & it produces faster & better results than with the stuff TNT and I bought. How long are you drying your Peripheral Blood Smears for before dipping? I need to go back & do more stains when energy permits.
Rainbow, nice video but they may not be true spiros either. There are false spiros in blood as well. I have some evidence that the rbc cell wall can shed some of these things that look like spirochetes. There most definitely are spirochetes in our blood in those later infected & I provided a bunch of scientific evidence to show this. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MyMicroscope/permalink/1646490118967316/
I don't know if I can use SOP as a judge anymore, after some experiments revealed that the rbc can shed & release these too. The people who work with cultured Borrelia say SOP is seen in in vitro cultures though and so maybe both can exist. I have seen segmentation of spiros in ticks though, but not sop yet.
We all need to take the next step & silver stain, fluorescent stain and culture. We should do a group buy on BSK-H...anyone interested?
Regarding the first paragraph, I've done a few dozen smears with the quick dip, and I've experimented with different procedures. Here's the best I've come up with so far:
I prefer thin blood smears for staining. The slower you smear the blood on the slide, the thinner a smear you'll get.
Let the sample air dry for 10-15 minutes before staining. If possible, let it dry inside a drawer or somewhere there's no dust contamination. If the blood isn't 100% dry on the slide when you stain, it will rub off and make a mess when you blot it dry.
After the blood is dry, dip the slide in the first stain several times, very rapidly in and out. I've found better results doing about 10 dips over the course of 5-7 seconds vs 5 dips over the same amount of time.
As soon as those dips are done, go straight into the second stain, again at 10 dips over 5-7 seconds.
Then, go straight into the third stain. For this one I do about 7 dips over 3-5 seconds, slightly less than the previous 2 stains.
After this third stain, rinse with distilled water right away. I find if I wait over 5 seconds between the final dip and the rinsing, I get weird stain artifacts on my smear.
Lastly, blot dry. Don't wipe. I use a paper towel, but it's not ideal because it leaves tiny fibers. I just place the paper towel over the slide, gently push down, and lift straight up.
Then inspect. If you use a halogen lamp like I do, a blue filter is important. It cools the image and looks identical to an LED setup.
I generally bump up my lamp intensity by 1 notch vs viewing in brightfield at the same magnification.
Edit: I also wanted to add one more thing for you Lymein2010:
The video where you explain how to do a blood smear is the video that got me interested in all this. I seriously can't say thanks enough!
That being said, I couldn't help but notice re-watching that video, when doing the smear, you held your slip cover the opposite way that 99% of other people do. Instead of having the slip cover angle towards the direction you're pulling the blood, I've found I make much better smears when I point the slip cover away from the direction I'm pulling. Like in this video. Just a quick note!
Lymedin2010
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I don't think he ever got it, but I have not exchanged info w/him for a while.
Great description of dip technique, thanks! I was going to do more dips in the fixative & red, and less in the blue stain, but you have saved me some trail & error time.
Funny you should have noticed that, but I do it for a reason. I watched the thin peripheral blood smear videos many times before I tried them myself for stains & when I do them, I do them exactly like on the video. Doing it this way I do not control the length of the smear & where EXACTLY the feathered edge lands. The amount of blood blotted seems to determine that.
BUT in a smear for a live prep sample, I want to control that the smear does not go beyond the slip cover edges, cuz it makes things messy. So I feel that I have more control this way, just like when they spackle walls with compound they do it this way. It allows them more control. Less pressure & it smears thicker & slowly apply more pressure before the opposite slip cover edge to achieve the feathering & thinner smear...which is the sweet spot I found during early infection & when the spiros were harder to find.
Some just blot with blood & then throw the slip cover on top without any smearing, as they may have more spiros in their blood & they are easy to find.
__________________________________________ This is a VERY good phone mount that mounts any phone. It is made of metal & plastic knobs, with padding against the phone clamps. Very sturdy & recommend for $10 w/free shipping.
posted
Wow wow wow! I am so eager to share my latest development in my treatment results with you all. I know it may be too early to tell for sure. I need to be cautiously optimistic.
You have been so supportive and helpful! I want to contribute back to community. here we go.
Summary of treatment I have done and the results: Started in first week of January, 2017, I did tinidazole 2 capsules (500 mg per capsule) twice a day. Five days on and a couple of days off. I repeated this three times. Then I had yeast over growth. So I took diflucan 1 capsule (100mg per capsule) twice a day for one week and on an as needed basis. Then I did minocycline 1 capsule (100mg per cap) twice a day along with Diflucan. 5 days on and a couple of days off. I did mino treatments twice. On Feb 23, I stopped all Abx treatments. See the video included from the blood sampled on Feb 23rd. This is the first morning blood. it was 100x oil phase contrast. Summary: there are not a lot of long forms any more compared to before ABX treatment. There are not a lot of clusters of bugs either. There are most singular cyst form like organism, moving actively around. However some red blood cells seem to have organisms in them due to the lesions on them. After a day or two on the slide, the long forms (string of peals,etc.) emerge as well as many active rod forms. To my surprise, the parasite worm count significantly went down. Before ABX, it used to be a few worms per slide. I only found one on this slide. On Feb 23, I stopped all abx. I started the following herbs: Baical skullcap, 2 dropfuls 3x a day, agrisept 20 drops 3x a day. I did experience herx (not very severe). This is in addition to serrapeptase, Japanese knotweed, nattokinase, protease that I have been taking for over one month. Additionally, I have been doing IV EDTA chelation plus vitamin c and b and glutathione once every 1 to 2 weeks for a couple of months. I believe that EDTA and the enzymes contributed significantly to breaking up the biofilm clusters and red blood cell clustering (the rouleaux) problem. I significantly restricted sugar intake (fruits and startch) for two weeks, but couldn’t last long, so I have relaxed about eating a few of fruits. A few days ago, I added pinella 10 drops twice a day and coptis one dropful twice a day. I also added lauricidin, two teaspoons a day. I experienced herx again (not too severe). March 6th, this is the first morning blood. 100x oil phase contrast. Summary: I don’t see any long forms at all! I only saw a couple of active cyst forms. I only saw one thing that might look like a worm, but it may just be an artifact. The blood is the cleanest I have ever seen in the past two years!!! The blood sample looks unremarkable!, which is the best thing in my case. I always had a lot of organisms and junk in my blood. What I did see this time is a few large protoplasts (clumps), which can be seen in normal blood. Symptom wise, it is too early to tell still. I have been feeling pretty good with mild symptoms. I did feel bad for 1.5 days when I started pinella, coptis and lauricidin. But then I was ok again. I will also check the microscope after one to two days and see if any critters pop up.
TNT
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quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: Wow wow wow! I am so eager to share my latest development in my treatment results with you all. I know it may be too early to tell for sure. I need to be cautiously optimistic.
You have been so supportive and helpful! I want to contribute back to community. here we go.
Summary of treatment I have done and the results: Started in first week of January, 2017, I did tinidazole 2 capsules (500 mg per capsule) twice a day. Five days on and a couple of days off. I repeated this three times. Then I had yeast over growth. So I took diflucan 1 capsule (100mg per capsule) twice a day for one week and on an as needed basis. Then I did minocycline 1 capsule (100mg per cap) twice a day along with Diflucan. 5 days on and a couple of days off. I did mino treatments twice. On Feb 23, I stopped all Abx treatments. See the video included from the blood sampled on Feb 23rd. This is the first morning blood. it was 100x oil phase contrast. Summary: there are not a lot of long forms any more compared to before ABX treatment. There are not a lot of clusters of bugs either. There are most singular cyst form like organism, moving actively around. However some red blood cells seem to have organisms in them due to the lesions on them. After a day or two on the slide, the long forms (string of peals,etc.) emerge as well as many active rod forms. To my surprise, the parasite worm count significantly went down. Before ABX, it used to be a few worms per slide. I only found one on this slide. On Feb 23, I stopped all abx. I started the following herbs: Baical skullcap, 2 dropfuls 3x a day, agrisept 20 drops 3x a day. I did experience herx (not very severe). This is in addition to serrapeptase, Japanese knotweed, nattokinase, protease that I have been taking for over one month. Additionally, I have been doing IV EDTA chelation plus vitamin c and b and glutathione once every 1 to 2 weeks for a couple of months. I believe that EDTA and the enzymes contributed significantly to breaking up the biofilm clusters and red blood cell clustering (the rouleaux) problem. I significantly restricted sugar intake (fruits and startch) for two weeks, but couldn’t last long, so I have relaxed about eating a few of fruits. A few days ago, I added pinella 10 drops twice a day and coptis one dropful twice a day. I also added lauricidin, two teaspoons a day. I experienced herx again (not too severe). March 6th, this is the first morning blood. 100x oil phase contrast. Summary: I don’t see any long forms at all! I only saw a couple of active cyst forms. I only saw one thing that might look like a worm, but it may just be an artifact. The blood is the cleanest I have ever seen in the past two years!!! The blood sample looks unremarkable!, which is the best thing in my case. I always had a lot of organisms and junk in my blood. What I did see this time is a few large protoplasts (clumps), which can be seen in normal blood. Symptom wise, it is too early to tell still. I have been feeling pretty good with mild symptoms. I did feel bad for 1.5 days when I started pinella, coptis and lauricidin. But then I was ok again. I will also check the microscope after one to two days and see if any critters pop up.
That's awesome rainboworiver! I am SO happy for you! Great job at documentation and great job with the videos! Yeah, the difference between your videos is remarkable. Isn't it amazing what some of the natural treatment agents can do?!
Definitely keep us posted and updated not just about the slide that is under your scope presently, but also how your (natural) treatment progresses. This is very helpful info for all of us here.
Keep up the good work!
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Sure enough! The critters came out after 24 hours, seemingly out of nowhere: long forms, cyst forms that move. The video taken after 48 hours show many many large clumps, around them, there are usually some clusters of organisms. I showed the videos to my doctor who lyme literate and who also uses darkfield microscopy. They said that the organisms went into hiding in microphage, clumps, etc… they usually come out after 24 hours. He also said that the organisms go as deep as bone marrows. Before new red and white blood cells enter the blood stream, they are already infected. Very few herbs/medicines get into bone marrows. That is why he is recommending hyperbaric, peroxide, ozone treatments to go deeper. Since I don’t have severe joint and cognitive issues, he thinks most of my infections is in the blood starting from the bone marrow. So he is also putting me on some German homeopathic meds to help cleanse the blood. I also finished the last and the 10th IV EDTA treatment. In one month, he will order a heavy metal test. Still, compare my blood on March 6 vs Feb 23, it is still much cleaner in inter-cell space! However there is fare amount of red blood cell toxicity as one can see that almost all red blood cells shriveled up after only 24 hours. It could be due to the toxicity of high dosage of herbs that I am taking. I am going to reduce the dosage to 2x per days instead of 3x per day. I am trying out hyperbaric this Friday and IV peroxide next week. I will also try bee venom. Anyone with experience of doing both hyperbaric and bee venom? Please see the videos for March 6 after 24 hours and 48 hours. https://vimeo.com/user63402696/videos By the way, microscope is a fantastic tool to help me and my doctor see the changes in response to treatments. Otherwise, it is like shooting in the dark: wasted time and money, and sides effects on ineffective treatments!
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TNT, thank you for the encouragement. Have to keep on fighting. Will keep up with the update.
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WOW!! Rainboworiver--- the difference in your blood between the Feb video and march video is stunning. What a mess your blood was in February--- lots of little sand like organisms, lots of spiros hanging off your red blood cells, strings of pearls hanging off your red cells, etc. And on March 6-- your blood looks so beautiful and clean!!! The cells are not even scalloped anymore (probably the vitamin c) !! Do you think the baical skullcap or the agricept or both were the main factors in the die off? At least two recent scientific studies have proven the usefulness of baical skullcap(chinese not american) and grapefruit seed extract-- but I see the agricept also has tangerine and lemon extracts in it. Maybe these are synergistic. Thank you for your hard work and sharing !!! God bless u and all of us who are so sick.
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Wakeup, yes, my blood was a big mess! I wondered why I was still alive?!
The only change between Feb 23 and March 6 was Chinese skullcap from Elk Mountain and Agrisetp-L. Diet wise, for a few days before March 6, I ate huge amount Navitas Golden berries, like almost a 8-ounce bagful per day. I just craved for it. I don't know if the March blood had anything to do with the golden berries.
I went for the hyperbaric treatment today for the first time at 2x ATA for 90 minutes 100% oxigen. I am not experiencing any herx, instead I feel better. Much less pain and more energy. What does it mean?
As matter of fact, every time I used oxygen mask, I felt better.
What organisms does oxygen suppress?
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quote:Originally posted by rainboworiver: Wakeup, yes, my blood was a big mess! I wondered why I was still alive?!
The only change between Feb 23 and March 6 was Chinese skullcap from Elk Mountain and Agrisetp-L. Diet wise, for a few days before March 6, I ate huge amount Navitas Golden berries, like almost a 8-ounce bagful per day. I just craved for it. I don't know if the March blood had anything to do with the golden berries.
I went for the hyperbaric treatment today for the first time at 2x ATA for 90 minutes 100% oxigen. I am not experiencing any herx, instead I feel better. Much less pain and more energy. What does it mean?
As matter of fact, every time I used oxygen mask, I felt better.
What organisms does oxygen suppress?
Thanks for the info on the herbs--- but I think I misread your results--- your Feb 23 cyst LIVE blood was very clean--I only saw one small spirochete at the end of the video. 24 hours later, however the same slide was filled with many spirochetes hanging off the cells (4-6 spiros per microscope pause) -- I think the spiros were exiting the red blood cells as the red cells died over the 24 hour period-- there were also strings of pearls forms. I noticed a similar pattern in your March results-- although your March 24 hr later blood slide did seem 50% cleaner-- only 1-2 spiros per microscope pause) than the 24 hour vid in February. We have a damn tricky intracellular infection-- and this is why the mild oxygen is probably working for folks-- it gets oxygen into the cells.
I do think the skullcap, the golden berries and Agricept had an effect-- perhaps it was absorbed into the cells and had a killing effect on the spiros harbored inside the cells, too. Meaning that there were 50% less spiros exiting your cells in March. Thanks again for your wonderful before and after videos!!
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Wakeup, I agree with your assessment of the blood videos.
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Lymedin2010
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Tick juice @ 400x on a Sony X1000V camera in 4K.
With boiled human saliva on day 3, which really gets the spirochetes going. They REALLY seem to LOVE the sterile saliva, as many of them sprout hours after preparation, but instead of dying or cysting back up with the RODI they actually flourish in saliva.
These are the same spirochetes as in the previous P1 & P2 videos, but the 4K video reveals a bit more of the spiral movement. The Amscope USB camera in the previous videos makes them appear more rigid & it is hard to detect the spiral movement using that camera.
How to collect your saliva? Spit, spit, spit in a glass container until you collect a good watery amount. Boil it & then you can freeze a part of it for future trials. Might be interesting to see what happens when we add saliva to our blood...will it make them spiral stronger again?
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Lymedin2010
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Same video as p4 from above, but this one is cropped & zoomed in.
BTW, I opened up the Sony FDR-x1000v camera up by the 3 screws & removed the lens to be able to do this, as the built-in lens produces too wide of a field of view (with an angle of 120 & 170 degrees). I used the device below, which fits many PNS cameras & you can even rest a cell phone on top of it with some tinkering.
Here is a video that shows you how to remove the lens. So I just removed the lens & attached the camera so the image from the microscope eyepiece projects directly onto the sensors. If you have trouble with ANY camera because of the depth of field with your lens, then you can remove the lens (depending on the camera) & project the image directly onto the sensor & that should do it. I also placed Saran plastic wrap around the edge of the camera & the camera holder to prevent dust from coming back into the sensor as a precaution.
This Camera was on sale at BestBuy for $200, but I managed to pickup a used one for even cheaper.
CONS for this camera: -Have to remove or replace the lens to get it to work on a microscope
-Cannot recharge the battery while it is on & used and the battery life is horrible on one charge.
-The menu system sux, with too many button pushes to get to items...best to use remote wi-fi connection to a device to control it. Video is also sent to a wi-fi device like a tablet with control of the camera, but it can be a bit sluggish at times.
-Camera gets friggin HOT when you output the 4K video to monitor!
It does have a micro-HDMI output & you can send the video to your TV WHILE recording 4K video and it works really great.
The GoPro Hero 5 might be a better option for this because of the following pros: -You might be able to get away with not having to remove the lens, because it has in-camera options to adjust the field of view & reduce it from 120 down to narrow & you can also attach macro and other lenses to it externally. -The guys who use this camera for action sport say that one can charge it while using it & send HDMI output to the TV while using it as well. -It has a color LCD touch screen & an easy to navigate menu system.
The drawback is the $400 price tag on it, but the Hero 5 Sessions is much cheaper without a LCD screen & the older Hero 4 is much cheaper as well.
[ 03-14-2017, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Lymedin2010 ]
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Lymed2010- Amazing work with saliva!!!--- I noticed what looks like lots of largish filarial worms in your amscope USB camera video that does not show the spirochete motion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEz3zu_FaJw&feature=youtu.be
Do u know what those large filarial worm-like critters are in your blood in the above video? There are a lot of them. Perhaps the same filarial worm that Sapi and Burgdorfer identified in ticks?
Where did you get the brilliant idea to grow spirochetes in human saliva? Perhaps there is some chemical in saliva that the spirochetes love.
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TNT
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For those of you/us who have and use Rife machines, here is an amazing video of live blood showing the destruction of a spirochete with a TrueRife machine.
I would really like to know what frequency they were using for this demonstration.
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TNT
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And, wow, very nice scope, Lymedin! Definitely a research grade Reichert! Especially with the 6 lens turret.
Great job on the experiments with saliva and tick "juice."
I hope to have some things to share before long. But, not concerning tick juice, ha ha.
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Lymedin2010
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Thanks. Yea, I have even better video of these objects & I don't see them in all of the ticks & very rarely. It looks some of them might even be eggs & are oval too. It is hard to make out whether it is cyst or filarial egg sometimes & I wish I had a reference for this.
When I squash a tick I always use 2 slides & the 2nd slide of this set I used RODI water with a few grains of sugar to encourage growth. The slide with the RODI/Sugar had the most content with the most tick juice & yet produced less spiros than the saliva. The RODI/Sugar was more watered down & the spiros that did come out moved super rapid & fast though, but I think the majority of them are still stuck in cyst morphology & do not come out.
I have tried egg white & even my sterile blood, as well as other ingredients on tick juice & so far saliva seems to work the best.
posted
Lymed--Oh-- I realize those are filaria in the TICK blood not your human blood..... just had brain freeze.
The reason Im interested is because Alan McDonald has shown that borrelia is harbored inside these worms-- so one needs to get rid of the worms FIRST if there is any hope of curing the borrelia.
Its hard to get rid of worms if you do not know what kind of worm it is. There are very few drugs available that kill adult filaria--- but there are lots of herbs that are effective.
Thanks for the heads up on the camera mount--- Im gonna get the one for the iphone 6-- makes it easy..
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by WakeUp: The reason Im interested is because Alan McDonald has shown that borrelia is harbored inside these worms-- so one needs to get rid of the worms FIRST if there is any hope of curing the borrelia.
I personally really caution against killing "foundational" pathogens (or larger pathogens/organisms) first as Dr. K in Washington does. I believe it just makes a bad situation MUCH MUCH worse because you are opening up the Pandora's Box of microbes and releasing them into the body immediately. That can make a person extremely sick, disabled, and can even be deadly.
I personally feel it is advisable to KILL WHAT'S INSIDE those filarial worms AT THE SAME TIME we kill the worms. This poses the least amount of risk.
Remember the "Heartworm infection model" in dogs!
But, I agree with you! You must address the larger organisms/worms in order to fully address the smaller or "symbiotic" pathogens harbored inside them.
And, YUCK, those DO look like filarial worms in Lymedin's tick juice video!!!
(Again) Great work, Lymedin! But, yuck! Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Lymedin2010
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We are in trouble guys, as I think resistance is a real thing too & even with Borrelia. On one sample I used my blood on tick juice & what happened was that the Borrelia just disappeared in 24 hrs. Hard to say if they went into cyst or just died altogether. I will have to try sheeps or rabbits blood on a future round or maybe saliva + the blood.
TNT, how much longer are you going to do the BVT for...you can't keep on doing it forever?
I have a video of one of those filarial objects in a tick & all the surrounding spirochetes have been attracted to the object & are trying to burrow inside of it. I found the Borrelia gathering after I had taken my phone & contraption apart already & was just too crispy to record anything. I recorded 24 hrs later though, but there were fewer Borrelia & I am assuming some most have gotten inside. I will post the video in a few.
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Lymedin2010
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bluelyme
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: And, wow, very nice scope, Lymedin! Definitely a research grade Reichert! Especially with the 6 lens turret.
Great job on the experiments with saliva and tick "juice."
I hope to have some things to share before long. But, not concerning tick juice, ha ha.
Oh the suspense ... on bvt im at 1 yr , bvters say 2 to 3 ...my nurse friend is in yr 6 after lyfe of lyme..how long have you been at full dosing ? I heard of a dr h client switching to do 75 sting a day making strides ..
I have some liquid venom i will put on a slide of ketes soon?!
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Lymedin2010
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I betcha, just like the Westernback Lizard, some snakes will be immune to Borrelia & their immune system will not let it grow in their bodies. I wish someone would do Borrelia studies on reptiles.
quote:Originally posted by WakeUp: The reason Im interested is because Alan McDonald has shown that borrelia is harbored inside these worms-- so one needs to get rid of the worms FIRST if there is any hope of curing the borrelia.
I personally really caution against killing "foundational" pathogens (or larger pathogens/organisms) first as Dr. K in Washington does. I believe it just makes a bad situation MUCH MUCH worse because you are opening up the Pandora's Box of microbes and releasing them into the body immediately. That can make a person extremely sick, disabled, and can even be deadly.
I personally feel it is advisable to KILL WHAT'S INSIDE those filarial worms AT THE SAME TIME we kill the worms. This poses the least amount of risk.
Remember the "Heartworm infection model" in dogs!
But, I agree with you! You must address the larger organisms/worms in order to fully address the smaller or "symbiotic" pathogens harbored inside them.
And, YUCK, those DO look like filarial worms in Lymedin's tick juice video!!!
(Again) Great work, Lymedin! But, yuck!
The heartworm analogy is possibly, but not necessarily true in the case of filaria- but remember that worms also have chemicals that disable the immune system-- meaning they make the victim weaker, and less able to fight other pathogens as time goes on. If given the choice, Id get rid of any filarial worm infestation first if at all possible, while continuing to take anti borrelia herbs. I know its possibly risky-- i.e. like removing asbestos from a house without encapsulating it first-- you risk breathing it all in-- I think I would take that risk.
Filarial worms are a perfect "payload" delivery vehicle in binary biological warfare. The less filaria you have, the smaller the dangerous payload is over time inside your body. All you then have to do is get rid of biofilm-- and you're cured.. LOL just kidding. We are all screwed royally.
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: I betcha, just like the Westernback Lizard, some snakes will be immune to Borrelia & their immune system will not let it grow in their bodies. I wish someone would do Borrelia studies on reptiles.
LOL-- When I win the mega millions lottery -- and create my Lyme foundation-- this will be one of the first areas funded (aside from my list of promising herbal compounds...) LOL Thanks for all you do !!
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Lymed-- thanks again for your incredible video work!! This video, plus McDonald's PCR work pretty much proves that the spirochetes attach to, feed off and burrow into the filarial worms, and are thus harbored inside the worm--- in a similar way to how they attach to , and are harbored inside our red blood cells and bone marrow. FUBAR for us.
The corkscrew burrows into everything--- is like an archimedes killing machine-- a perfect biological weapon..
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: For those of you/us who have and use Rife machines, here is an amazing video of live blood showing the destruction of a spirochete with a TrueRife machine.
I would really like to know what frequency they were using for this demonstration.
Yea-- I wonder what frequency he was using-- theres a phone number for him if someone wants to call him. I think he was using this PLASMA rife machine which is very powerful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvJGZM908gE
It would be great to do more microscopy using this machine.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010:
TNT, how much longer are you going to do the BVT for...you can't keep on doing it forever?
I sure will!!! As long as it's helping me, I will continue them. It's much cheaper and easier than ABX and other modalities such as mHBOT!
That's interesting blue that some people are doing that many stings. I stick with 10-12 per time.
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Here's another "filaria" or I hope just a fiber----- it has a pointy end, and is about the length of 60 red blood cells, I think-- I'll try to upload these images smaller -- still working on all this tech stuff: Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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Lymedin2010
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I've been told that when there are sharp bends then it is not a worm, but then again I see sharp bends sometimes in the tick filarial & you can see them in my last video where there are quite a few worms. So I think everything has to be taken with a grain of salt.
I don't think yours are nematodes & I think they are fibers. The first pic has a synthetic fanned end on one end. They are about the right size for a worm though & it could be, as sometimes it is hard to tell for sure. They always say staining is best for the worms.
I've also told people to leave out a glass slide in the open for 48 to 60 hours & then to add some water & a cover slip. Then you can compare the potentials of real fibers to the known nematode pictures & videos. I've been meaning to do this myself for quite some time, but never got to it as of yet.
Great pics with your iPhone, what is that the iPhone 6?
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Thanks ! Yes-- its an iphone 6-- -- its really hard to get the lens lined up to the eyepiece-- my pics above come from blood from an open morgellons skin lesion. I'm a microscope newbie -- so much to learn but its a fun hobby and hopefully useful to other sick people and even scientists who come here. I Hope "they" are fibers but I have a feeling they might not be. My Amscope camera software isnt working hardly at all on my mac -- so Im stuck with the handheld phone for now. Here's circopithifilaria in 3 stages I came across online ( from a squashed tick). Circopithifilaria is a filarial skin infection in dogs, I believe.
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[ 03-18-2017, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Lymedin2010 ]
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Lymedin2010
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Tick juice in BSK-H @ 1000x + cam zoom. The spirochete zig-zags back & forth & then at times becomes limber and just gyrates & wriggles just like in our Lyme Diseased blood.
Other times I have seen them become straightened out & very rigid, what they call "needle form."
Lymedin2010
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This sample is from 2 months later post prep.
I see these occasionally & they are usually much smaller. This one is fairly larger & worth sharing.
To me it is more like segmentation, which is what I see more of toward the end life of the spirochetes...when the nutrients run out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKrN0ggnwc ___________________________________________ Dr. Alan MacDonald explains the granular forms of the SOP in this video, with a nice pic.
The Bart's are small & in a vacuole, which was most likely inside a rbc at one point that then ruptured to release the vacuole + Barts inside the vacuole. When the vacuole is inside the rbc, the vacuole can rupture too & release the Bart's so that they freely move WITHIN the rbc. So one can see multiple variations & conditions, and even the Bart plantonic (free-moving/existing) in the plasma.
Remember that the organisms are in an environment & the environment can change very rapidly & their "behavior" can change as well. It depends on how long ago the blood was stored in vacutainers before slide sample was taken , how long ago sample was taken and video recorded, whether the slip cover was sealed so as not to dry out the sample, ambient temp & temp from illumination source...etc...many possible situations.
For instance, in ticks when I first look at the slide there are no spirochetes, because they were shocked by the water or water+ some other mixture addition. Then when they slowly emerge & appear to seemingly pop out of thin air. When they first emerge they spiral (zig-zag) back & forth violently & with much fervor and energy and they also start to divide and multiply. Then over time as the nutrients run out, they become stagnant & with little mobility just like in our blood...they just gyrate & move in limited motion. I will make a video eventually & it will be crystal clear and the motion lessons here can be applied to all microscopic organisms.
Borrelia do not need to form the vacuoles, since they have the more messier & random biofilm formations. Babesia does not form the vacuoles either. Bartonella is the only one that I know of out of the trio (Borrelia, Babs, Bart) that form the vacuole. Others that I have spoken to also believe that visually this is probably Bart, but of course they want testing as we all do. For me this is 100% bart visually. I have seen the Bart in another persons blood & I have seen the vacuoles once before, but at that time it was earlier in my microscopy ventures & I did not know what it was...I cannot find that video now as it was online somewhere.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: At time 35s in this video...looks like that is more Bartonella in the vacuole & in the rbc.
The Bart's are small & in a vacuole, which was most likely inside a rbc at one point that then ruptured to release the vacuole + Barts inside the vacuole. When the vacuole is inside the rbc, the vacuole can rupture too & release the Bart's so that they freely move WITHIN the rbc. So one can see multiple variations & conditions, and even the Bart plantonic (free-moving/existing) in the plasma.
It's very possible that is an example of Bart organisms inside a vacuole or even a ghosted RBC. It is just so hard to tell many times (with live blood). I have definitely seen this in my live blood, but have chalked it up to lysosomes getting trapped in the remains of a RBC. I don't see this "phenomena" demonstrated in my giemsa smears.
Great job and finds, especially your own nematodes-in-ticks videos! I think those are particularly interesting, and CONFIRMING.
I've actually considered doing some giemsa smears of the blood of biting flies and ticks, but haven't had the time. Still looking at human blood for now. But, I think it could be very revealing. For instance, a study published late last year proved that horseflies can carry and transmit Anaplasma. Previously it was believed they could only transmit by the rare mechanical transmission.
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TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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Great observation! I think most of the "string of pearls" we see in our blood are spirochetes. The red blood cell string of pearls are rarer and the pearls are larger.
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
Anything is possible, but you can also see the bart inside the rbc with the hemoglobin still intact & not compromised. So both the hollow one & the full rbc have what to me look like bart.
Do you see any stained spirochetes in your blood? I only find a few of them with staining & they are questionable in appearance, as in they may not be spirochetes either. So I wonder about that too since I have seen stained spiros in slides online. I was once led to believe that any SOP in the blood meant that it was foreign, but after my acid & basic (baking soda) experiments I no longer hold to that belief. Shedding of the rbc wall can also produce SOP's.
I look forward to your tick ventures, can't wait...how odd what us Lymies get excited about.
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