TNT
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Lymedin,
I guess if he is trying to show that that coccoid is a bleb, then time-lapse would be best. I guess this is the kind of thing we are up against with proving it. Because, honestly, it looks to me like one of the many lyzosomes are attacking the kete.
I think it was S13 that showed time-lapse of SOP to bleb formation?? I remember your one video showed that too.
The thing I find hard to believe is that he is referring to the kete as an "l-form spirochaete." I don't think he can prove that by the video.
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TNT
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Here's an early video (just uploaded in response to our conversation on the last page) of my blood showing parasitized RBCs, possible "maltese cross," and ketes with brightfield at 1000x:
TNT
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The other thing that makes me speculate that these cells are parasitized by apicomplexans is that babesia and malaria tend to infect the reticulocytes (immature RBCs).
The affected cells appear to be reticulocytes.
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Lymedin2010
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You captured some very clear spirochetes in that video, great work. Do you see them all over & scattered in your blood, or are they hard to find?
It could very well be, but the best way to capture them is via staining. This is no easy feat as you may have to do a whole lot of staining to increase your chances of capture.
I have seen normal blood & the RBC's look as if it can be loaded with parasites because of the effect I described previously. I thought they were parasites in my blood too when I first got into microscopy, but after some time with normal blood, I have to easily dismiss them.
Just look at this vid of normal blood & focus on the RBC, which might one mistake as parasitized? And by no means is this the best video of this illusion & I have recorded better in the past.
The other way to capture them is via darkfield & I have seen some very convincing video of parasitized RBC's under darkfield.
For sure you have parasites in your RBC's, as your ruptured RBC's & the pictures you took of the occlusions exiting rbc suggest & that was beautiful work which I have not seen from any other LD person doing microscopy. Congrats!
Consider the possibility of culturing them in chocolate agar, as I had mentioned in a previous post. This will allow you to place a larger amount of blood & again increase chance of seeding the medium.
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Lymedin2010
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I don't know if I did a good enough job on the My Horrific blood video? One of the major points was to show SoP formation & how it breaks up & scatters in the blood.
So if you wait a few hours you will see the spiros come out more & more into the blood plasma. But if you wait even more hours the plentiful collection of spiros in the plasma just vanish & what is left is a lot of debri & many coccoids/blebs/spores/granular forms (all those words are interchangeable for the same Borrelia structure....the dot).
P. Kemp has done maybe about 4 months ago a before & after video of the same thing that I have. First he shows the spiros in plasma & then a few hours later all one sees is the blebs scattered in the plasma. I suppose he used coccoid as a more general term to be safe & can apply to any object. I know from watching his videos that his culturing produces A LOT of blebs/coccoids in the plasma.
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Lymedin2010
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It looks like slowly the world is learning...this is recently & directly from Dr. Alan MacDonald...
" Macro Particulate forms of Amyloid (coating living Borrelia bio-films) exist in Circulating Blood from dementia patient. Link: https://www.facebook.com/whyamistillsick
Amyloid ""Globs" up to 100 or more microns in size were captured in photographs by me after I completed a Congo Red stain [ for amyloid } on a peripheral blood smear from a 62 year old woman with dementia, and with previously documented circulating large size Borrelia bio-films in her blood smear. No one, on planet earth ,has ever stained a blood smear with Congo Red Stain to search for amyloid.
No one on earth has ever performed FISH method DNA hybridization for borrelia Miyamotoi DNA. No one on earth has ever photo documented the existence of living Borrelia biofilm communities in the circulating blood.
These discoveries occurred on October 7,2015. One of the Images of a huge Borrelia biofilm Coated with Amyloid is below. Other images are posted through the link above.
This is a Major new insight into the biology of Infectious Alzheimer's Disease.
Respectfully, Alan B. MacDonald MD, FCAP October 9,2015"
TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: You captured some very clear spirochetes in that video, great work. Do you see them all over & scattered in your blood, or are they hard to find?
That last video was from the second slide I ever did, so it was very early on. At that point I was seeing COLONIES of spirochetes, as I pointed out in previous videos. It goes without saying that this was not cultured blood....so yeah, MANY, MANY ketes! Now I do not see that many (most of the time).
Here is another early video of the same area that shows some of these same elements, but gives a better idea of just how many ketes there were:
I apologize for the shaking and the loud noise in the background. Someone was vacuuming as I shot the video. Plus, the slide/coverslip was under the influence of some type of tension that kept pushing the blood around every time I tried to focus. I think I had too much blood for the surface area of the coverslip that allowed it to "float."
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TNT
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Alan is doing AWESOME work! I hope it continues. Does anyone know if it is true about his microscope being taken from him? Can someone provide written proof about it?
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: I have seen normal blood & the RBC's look as if it can be loaded with parasites because of the effect I described previously. I thought they were parasites in my blood too when I first got into microscopy, but after some time with normal blood, I have to easily dismiss them.
Just look at this vid of normal blood & focus on the RBC, which might one mistake as parasitized? And by no means is this the best video of this illusion & I have recorded better in the past.
I could be mistaken, but the RBCs in your video don't quite look like what I pointed out. But, please don't go searching in your archives for a better resemblance because I realize that what I am showing in my video may completely be an illusion.
I was simply illustrating what COULD look like "maltese crosses," and pointing out a couple things that could lead a person to consider the possibility of apicomplexan parasites. I don't plan to "go to the bank" with it, because it's not hard evidence.
The other thing I consider is how much Zithromax and Artemisinin has helped me in the past number of months.
So, I am just trying to get the big picture on things, and TOTALLY appreciate all of your help & input (Lymedin, and each one of you).
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: Here's an early video (just uploaded in response to our conversation on the last page) of my blood showing parasitized RBCs, possible "maltese cross," and ketes with brightfield at 1000x:
SIGH---- TNT-- OMG your red blood cells look like crap. I'm sooooo sorry for us all because "our life is in the blood.." and these parasites are literally sucking the life out of us.
It takes red blood cells 3 months to die-- so treatment must be a minimum of 3 months.. just to eradicate an infection in red blood cells, not to mention other cells.
SIGH-----
Those "S" like spirochetes inside your cells are SSSatan's personal taunt...LOL
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: Alan is doing AWESOME work! I hope it continues. Does anyone know if it is true about his microscope being taken from him? Can someone provide written proof about it?
Elena mentioned that the LDA had withdrawn their loan of the cytoviva Microscope, but I will see if I can verify it-- and the reasons for it. They probably came under "pressure" to take the scope away.
The last thing we patients need is MORE tick studies and tick surveys. Tick studies are great---- BUT--- they distract precious resources from research for a CURE, and I, for one do not want to finance more tick studies and surveys when almost no work or money is going into finding a CURE..
I want to finance researchers who want to CURE--- to eradicate Borrelia biofilm Borrelia spirochetes and Borrelia cysts from our bodies. Denialists harm us because they divert attention from these lines of research onto research that will never find us a cure....
If the microscope loan was called in, then a group of concerned Lyme patients need to buy the Cytoviva to rent to MacDonald for $1 a year. This way, actual patients who want a cure will have control over the equipment-- and not an organization like the LDA which is subject to pressure and compromise because of its funding requirements.
Our only hope rests with grass roots funding of dedicated scientists like Sapi, Miklossy, MacDonald and that pathologist is Norway... (forgot his name-- brain freeze)
One key to which scientists are dedicated is: they always get persecuted when they come close to the truth!!
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by WakeUp: Elena mentioned that the LDA had withdrawn their loan of the cytoviva Microscope, but I will see if I can verify it-- and the reasons for it...
....If the microscope loan was called in, then a group of concerned Lyme patients need to buy the Cytoviva to rent to MacDonald for $1 a year. This way, actual patients who want a cure will have control over the equipment-- and not an organization like the LDA which is subject to pressure and compromise because of its funding requirements.
Thanks WakeUp, I appreciate you verifying that for us.
If this is true, perhaps someone should put a bug in John Caudwell's ear that MacDonald could use another microscope. The best scope made would cost pocket change to him.
It's too bad MacDonald couldn't get his hands on one of the 2 surviving original Rife microscopes. Then again, there might be a learning curve to using one. They were the most powerful microscopes in the world at that time, and maybe still are.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: I don't know if I did a good enough job on the My Horrific blood video? One of the major points was to show SoP formation & how it breaks up & scatters in the blood.
So if you wait a few hours you will see the spiros come out more & more into the blood plasma. But if you wait even more hours the plentiful collection of spiros in the plasma just vanish & what is left is a lot of debri & many coccoids/blebs/spores/granular forms (all those words are interchangeable for the same Borrelia structure....the dot).
I thought you did a great job with that video. I only wish it could have been filmed at 1000x instead of 400x.
I don't have an eyepiece camera yet, but I recently watched a sample over a week's time. At first there were numerous ketes. But as the week progressed, fewer and fewer ketes were visible until there were NONE. The inverse was true concerning cysts. I saw more and MORE and MORE irregularly-rounded, granular type objects approximately .5-2.5 um in diameter. I had seen a few of these objects in blood before, but was not sure what they were until this sample.
Now I know.
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Lymedin2010
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Interesting that your last video is not that sharp & very shaky, yet it is very easy to identify as spirochetes, great job on that one.
You guys know that I was thanked by many for my video & that we have influenced other researches into looking at the blood & spirochetes more seriously now. Hopefully the momentum will keep on going & we will all learn new things as time progresses. What we really need to do is to get the LLMD's involved.
1000x produces a VERY narrow field of view & when focusing on only 1 spiro it becomes difficult to keep focus since it easily moves & looses focus. I am doing more 40x with cam zoom now. Good to see that both you & P. Kemp have noticed a very similar pattern to what I have noticed. I think this info is BIG news & insight for all of us. We have shown the researches what actually happens in our blood & how 1x borrelia can easily lead to 20x or 30x Borrelia entities.
TNT, I again asked for verification on L-form of borrelia & this is what was said:
"...our definition of L form is: typically a long thin string like body with a length between 10 and 20 microns and diameter about 0.3 to 0.5 microns.
That’s typical, however we also frequently see and include. Very long forms that can be 100 microns or more, and very short forms that can be 3-10 microns in length. Frequently the short ones have definite round bodies on the ends and look like dumbells. Some of these can be seen in the video you include."
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Lymedin2010
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Also I have thought about this many nights, are the CDC really this stupid? Could they really not understand that different morphologies exist. Is it too difficult of a concept to accept that in a BLOOD BORNE DISEASE that the pathogen can be in very large quantities in the blood?
In the beginning I thought I had discovered a species of Borrelia that may not be known as pathogenic to humans or maybe a new one all together. I was able to figure out spores, dotted spirochetes & their breakup all within 4-5 months. I knew nothing of Borrelia burgdorferi as it pertained to what I was seeing. The only sure guarantee that I witnessed was that these things were not in my blood during early infection, when I only had a few symptoms & I was guessing I had Lyme. Then as I developed more & more symptoms these things coincided in abundance.
Could they really be this moronic or do they know this already? Perhaps they are already aware & realize that if we cannot kill it with abx early on, then no matter how much antibiotics or combos of abx we administer subsequently the organism will persists.
If people go on life thinking they have fibro or ME/CFS, then why not leave it at that & not scare the public. I bet when they went out testing, they discovered that many people have the infection, yet they show no symptoms or very little symptoms. Collectively the cost of handling this would be astronomical. So if the infection exists & it does not necessarily translate to disease, then how does one prove that they have full blown LD? This becomes a public fiasco.
Big pharma is making money off us Lymies, but the insurance companies are loosing a tremendous amount. Do you think that the gov will favor Big Pharma over insurance companies? Or are they trying to reach a happy middle ground where the gov does not loose much, big Pharma gets its share by way of drugs for labeled diseases, & insurance companies loose minimally.
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: TNT, I again asked for verification on L-form of borrelia & this is what was said:
"...our definition of L form is: typically a long thin string like body with a length between 10 and 20 microns and diameter about 0.3 to 0.5 microns.
That’s typical, however we also frequently see and include. Very long forms that can be 100 microns or more, and very short forms that can be 3-10 microns in length. Frequently the short ones have definite round bodies on the ends and look like dumbells. Some of these can be seen in the video you include."
So, they are saying the very long strings we have in our blood and which you can see in many of our videos (like in my flagellate video) are the L-form (cell-wall-deficient) spirochetes?
I wish they would tell us how they know that. What are they seeing about those long ketes that define them as cell-wall-deficient? Because they appear no different than the shorter ones. They do not appear to have the qualities consistent with cell-wall-deficient forms from what I can see.
I also wish I could get hold of a copy of Dr. Lida Mattman's book on cell wall deficient forms! If only it wasn't so expensive.
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Lymedin2010
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Small dumbbells, medium, long, & extra long ones are all L-form. In fact everything that we see that is not granular (dot) or cyst is L-form in our blood thus far. I don't know of anyone who has captured a typical spirochete in their blood yet. They are also called atypical & they do not conform to the text-book definition of a Borrelia spirochete. I know someone who has cultured them & had a few typical ones in full spiraling Borrelia form. Some L-forms can never revert back, while some can.
Perhaps because it is cell wall-deficient it does not spiral with aggression. Other organisms also have L-forms such as Bacillus subtilis & mycoplasma.
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TNT
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Here is a good slide show in the public domain that explains l-forms well:
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TNT
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Here is a better picture and description of the first pic (on last post):
Phase contrast image of L-form cells from Bacillus subtilis showing a range of sizes. Scale bar is 5 micrometers:
A couple more pics:
Transmission electron micrograph of L-form Bacillus subtilis, showing a range of sizes. Scale bar is 10 micrometers:
Transmission electron micrograph of L-form Bacillus subtilis. The cells lack the electron-dense cell wall of normal bacteria. Scale bar is 500 nanometers:
Does any of this information give us an idea of what L-form spirochetes look like under the scope? I'm not sure. I will continue to search it out.Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Lymedin2010
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Good links, but I am sure there is more to learn from Borrelia L-forms.
I think it forms when exposed to harsh conditions, such as the abx we take & it does so easily with Penicillin exposure as well. I cannot really prove they are CWD, as we would need an electron microscope. BUT, it looks like we have them in abundance & the abx we take are not very good at killing them, which is a clue in itself as to CWD. Also their motility is impeded by the loss or degradation of the flagella. So the clues are there, but I have to go by what the say since I do not have the insight to prove it any further.
"Antibody status is immaterial in DNA detection [BANR] procedures . Borrelia spirochetes which bind to Species specific DNA probes, directly visualize under the microscope, the borrelia spirochetes in the body of the [BANR] patient."
"The equipment needed for each physician performing such testing after graduation from the tutorial is inexpensive and straightforward. It consists of a microscope. "
"Point of Care Methologies are now routinely available in many physician offices, and this campaign will expand the capabilities of individual physicians to, with a microscope in their private offices , to evaluate their own patients for DNA evidence of borrelia infections. This harkens back to the early 20th century, when every physician was trained in and equipped with a microscope and with the necessary reagents for staining bacteria ( Gram Staining) , to assist in diagnosis of infections their own patients."
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Lymedin2010
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It looks like they did confiscate the Cytoviva loaner microscope from Dr. Alan MacDonald.
"I realise now I was mistaken. It turns out that LDA has never given any funding to Dr. Alan Macdonald.
The Cytoviva microscope was effectively a loan, not a gift. You recalled it in a great hurry from Dr. MacDonald just as he began to make important strides in detecting Borrelia biofilms with it.Biofilms are, by definition, proof of persistent infection.
Mrs. Smith, who pressured you to demand that Dr. MacDonald return that microscope so hastily? And why did you concede to that pressure?
These matters, and all of the issues raised in my letter, are relevant to the Lyme community throughout the world, and deserve an answer."
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: Good links, but I am sure there is more to learn from Borrelia L-forms.
I think it forms when exposed to harsh conditions, such as the abx we take & it does so easily with Penicillin exposure as well. I cannot really prove they are CWD, as we would need an electron microscope. BUT, it looks like we have them in abundance & the abx we take are not very good at killing them, which is a clue in itself as to CWD. Also their motility is impeded by the loss or degradation of the flagella. So the clues are there, but I have to go by what the say since I do not have the insight to prove it any further.
I find it interesting that they describe the change from CWD form to active spirochete in these terms: "the cytomorphic change from atypical nonmotile, "rigid" form to motile helical form..." - So, the l-form is "nonmotile" and "rigid."
In reference to the four biological variations of their Bb cultures they said (concerning #3), "the colonies may grow to resemble mycoplasma;" (I think they refer to the "fried-egg" look of the colonies in the agar dish).
They also mention "membrane blebs."
Also, "[previous] studies showed the presence of large bubbles (1.0-1.6 micrometers) and encysted forms of leptospirae and borreliae."
And, the mention of "elongated forms."
I really don't think that an electron microscope would be needed to see CWD borrelia. I reference the pics I posted of the CWD Bacillus as an illustration. The usual form of Bacillus is roughly the same size as it's CWD form. I imagine the same is true for spirochetes. Greater magnification would therefore not be needed.
In response to some of the great material in that PDF, it might be helpful for me to post the slides defining & showing the two basic forms of CWD bacteria, protoplasts and spheroplasts:
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TNT
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Pictures of Spheroplasts:
Bacteria that attempt to divide in the presence of penicillin fail to do so and end up shedding their cell walls in the process.
NASA / Univ. of Alabama A fluorescent stain renders adds a green tinge to the corkscrew-shaped Spirochaeta americana from California’s Mono Lake. Green spots are spheroplasts. Reddish areas are dead cells.
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But these appear to be good examples of what we have just been discussing... Cell-wall-deficient forms.
Those little round translucent "bubbles" appear to be spheroplasts of some type of organism. Could be from gram-negative bacteria of some type, because gram-negative bacteria (as well as other things) produce spheroplasts.
Borrelia spheroplasts? Who knows? Could be! But, they could be some other type of bacteria just as easily.
Great job with both videos! I like them.
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As far as the L-form . Im working with a local college in a infectious disease study of these monsters . It is amazing what they can do and how fast they can change. You throw vancomycin or any other cell wall attacking antibiotic at them on the slide, they imediatly drop their cell wall and hop into the nearest RBC to protect themselves .
its nuts !!!
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Lymedin2010
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Since the L-form lose the cell wall & flagella it then becomes rigid & what they call nonmotile, although they sure as heck still have motility although it is very passive. I believe they need this motility in order to make it in & out of our cells (RBC's....etc). Imagine how awkward it would be for them to burrow in & out of the RBC's lengthwise if they were "NONMOTILE."
Since the information has been fed to us & we know what to look for in the string/spiral form of the spirochete, then no we don't need an electron microscope. But if we really wanted to prove that there is actually no cell wall or flagella, then yes we do need it. What if there was still a cell wall & flagella but that they were only perforated & damaged & thus producing this non-motility.
In fact your spheroplast picture is an electron micro pic & such a pic as I had posted in a previous time would provide very clear detailing....
Electron Cryotomography of Borrelia b.
"Figure 1 of Charon et al. Bar, 50 nm. PFs, periplasmic flagella; PS, periplasmic space; PM, plasma (or cytoplasmic) membrane; OM, outer membrane."
I cannot tell whether the blebs are CWD or not & whether they are sphero or proto. They do come in an assortment of shapes & sizes & at times they hold on to part of the Borrelia body.
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Lymedin2010
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Gerald, such impeccable timing on subject matter for this video.
I really love this video since it shows the physical spirals of a spirochete & this may be the in between a typical & atypical spiro, whereby it is losing the cell wall & flagella. It also has what is reminiscent of the text-book spiral movement, albeit still not as aggressive as the dogmatic naysayers would like to see it in.
Beautiful!!!!
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Lymedin2010
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Yes, I am very well aware of how RESPONSIVE these things are. Within minutes of taking a particular herb or abx I can feel mass migrations, tremors, vibrations, pins & needles as they scatter & hit nerves, muscle twitches & movement as they form cysts.
When you keep in mind a systemic infection that involves the total blood volume & its incredible rapid response to environmental factors, then one can explain many Lyme symptoms via this model of infection & occupancy.
I liken the spirochetes in the blood as a person being dragged in a river or rapids. The person has some movement, but not total control. Both Borrelia & the person moves intentionally & passively with sticky bolbous tips or sticky hands & feet that grab onto or stick to what is need (rocks vs cell walls).
Also it would be huge for researches to apply a microscope to our capillaries to follow the spiros as abx are administered. I also see a synthetic capillary with a semi-permeable membrane directly to our blood supply via IV & monitored by a microscope. Since our blood can live outside of our bodies for hours & days these blood experiments can be conducted in vitro as well & will be the hallmark of future studies. They will provide insight as to what is actually going on in real time & with each abx application.
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TNT
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Very interesting!
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TNT
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That lecture is GREAT! She knew this stuff like the back of her hand.
At 41:15 she says that in many of these (chronic, neurodegenerative) diseases the organisms react with Borrelia burgdorferi antibody fluorescent stain, but their respective cysts show that the organisms are fundamentally different from one another; (same genus, different species). The slide (pic of blood culture from ALS patient) shows pleomorphic spirochetes in fluorescent borrelia antibody stain.
Very revealing and interesting! It's not much of a surprise to us of course.
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Lymedin2010
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Yea, I watched those a long time ago & loved her lectures. I love when she mentions the guy they used to make fun of who used to clean his hands after touching the door knob. Once he had the knowledge of possible contact transmission, who could blame him after all.
There was some other giant secret that Dr. Burgdorferi had left dangling in the wind & I think it may have been to deal with contact transmission as well. He left off in his video professing that he did not tell us everything!
On another note, have you guys checked the blood of a normal person? Do you see any spirochetes in normal blood with the same criteria used for a more positive identification? I personally have not been able to see a single one yet with bulbous tips.
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TNT
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I have wondered about the strong possibility of contact transmission many times. There is no doubt people have contracted Lyme through body fluids. It's possible it could be with far more casual contact than we would like to believe!
Even Burgdorfer himself contracted it from the urine of an infected rabbit that he was dissecting in the lab. The urine squirted him in the eye and he came down with the tell-tale symptoms. The lab physicians diagnosed him with Borreliosis and immediately put him on ABX. His symptoms resolved.
Later, under pressure, the lab physicians retracted his diagnosis saying it couldn't have been Lyme!!! The politics went against un-refutable evidence with the very discoverer of Lyme disease. Even Willy himself said (with an incredulous chuckle) "What else could it have been?"
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Lymedin2010
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From my microscopy studies I can see how some people can harbor the bacteria, yet not show any/many symptoms, but I just don't know why exactly. I will go on a limb & say there are more people who don't know they have Lyme than there are those who have it, as I was one of them too & certain people on my block continued with life after the bite & treatment, but forever changed.
Even I was an exception & I was loaded with spirochetes until it came to a boiling point & then it all changed in severity in an instant. It is that type of change that we see in HIV+ to AIDS, very similar in immunosuppressive nature.
“Dr. Lida Mattman, Ph.D., who died back in 2008, taught microbiology, virology, pathology at major universities. She identified the Lyme disease spirochete in semen, saliva, mosquitoes, biting flies and spiders – in addition to the well-known deer tick. This means (of course) that we’re all exposed to these conditions and since she found them in things like tears, semen and saliva – that, in addition, it’s contagious.”
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The mortar and pestle tick grinder that Dr. Burgdorferi used at Rocky Mountain Labs to crush ticks & check for Borrelia.
TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: On another note, have you guys checked the blood of a normal person? Do you see any spirochetes in normal blood with the same criteria used for a more positive identification? I personally have not been able to see a single one yet with bulbous tips.
I did.
The friend I've referred to before, who is as healthy and strong as an ox, had 3 ketes in the sample. One of those was irrefutably a lyme spirochete. It was one of the thick spirochetes (not a thin string) with bulbous tips on both ends and approx. 6-8 microns in length. It was a textbook borrelia spirochete.
I didn't know how to explain it to him, so I never told him (and didn't show it to him). Regretfully, I didn't document it with pics or video. I've kicked myself ever since.
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Take a look at this beaut coming out of the RBC with some aggression. Probably on the way to becoming a L-form.
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TNT, if you can take video next time that would be awesome. I have checked quite a few people so far & I don't see what I see in my blood & my wife's blood & a few other people with Lyme.
Like I said before I see small dumbbells & fibrin strings, but nothing that meets the criteria so far. I did find loads of stringy objects (fibrin???) in my father-in-law's blood who has Parkinson's & was bitten by many ticks when he was younger. But I just don't have any proof that they are spirochetes or alive for that matter. I will post that video up eventually.
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"A simple method has been found that tells people who have become seriously ill after a tick bite once and for all whether they have bacteria in their blood.
Over the past year, two experienced biologists at Oslo University have seen something that very few scientists experience. They have been sought out by a persistent stream of people from all over Norway who are asking for help."
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TNT
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: Take a look at this beaut coming out of the RBC with some aggression. Probably on the way to becoming a L-form.
Definitely an aggressive one! I've seen quite a few of these short aggressive ketes in my blood already. Interesting, because many of those I've seen have been "coming out" of RBCs, too (but not all of them).
The bright, granular, jiggling small object to the immediate left of the infected RBC appears to be a borrelia cyst. That's exactly what the objects in my blood looked like in my week-old sample.
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Yes, I think it is a cyst too with some granular forms floating around as well, but it is easy to misinterpret them as well & as we already know.
Take a look at the stacked RBC's on the top right with the Maltese Cross, as that could be a sign of babs, but it can also be the illusion I talked about in the past & better to see those when the smear has been stained.
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" Research into syphilis in the early 1900’s showed that the causative agent, Treponema, has a unique life cycle which, when under attack from antibiotics or the immune system causes the spirochaete to change into a spore form. Recent research has shown that the Lyme disease spirochaete has a similar life cycle producing spore and cyst forms when under threat - which may account for the persistence and chronic nature of the infection.
In fact, much recent research confirms what homeopaths have long maintained which is that many of the diseases which plagued our forefathers were never completely eradicated, but suppressed to be expressed in various forms later in the individual's life or in future generations. "
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2010, that new software for that scope is amazing!! im going to research more and see exactly what it can do and what the magnification levels are.
That could be HUGE for folks being run through the medical ringer
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That scope may help us to reveal spirals in Borrelia, where the spirals have regressed to the benefit of the spirochete & infection.
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TNT
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I have not done much with my "new" stains since I got them a few weeks ago. Actually I made three slides right afterwards, and stained two of them immediately. I looked at them under 400x for a while and thought "Neat!" but didn't see anything significant, so I didn't mess with 1000x.
The two new stains I got provide results similar to Wright-Giemsa, and the other, similar to plain Wright stain. I did one slide in the "blue" and the other in the "red." ---Those where the ones I previously looked at under 400x but saw nothing outstanding.
Yesterday, after comparing the two types of stains, I decided to stain the 3rd slide (finally) with the "red" (Wright stain).
For this slide I finally pulled around the 100x objective. I looked for hours and took probably 100+ pics. The final product with these stains are pretty typical (finally) and are really neat. But, after looking at hundreds of WBCs and glancing at thousands of RBCs I didn't see much that was remarkable (except one possible kete and a few inclusions...and my platelets stain purpleish-green...which is a little strange perhaps?).
Nothing very remarkable. UNTIL THIS! (I am feeling dramatic)!
I was ready to hang it up until I spotted two distinct, (mostly) crescent-shaped objects that are stained YELLOW! (I know, S13, you're gonna really love me)They are about 1.5 microns in length and about half that in width.
My obvious question is, what type of organism stains YELLOW???!!! A protozoan? Toxo? But, they're supposed to stain blue or purple I think.
Any ideas?
[ 12-03-2015, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: TNT ]
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I know my lighting is still not the greatest. I need to get an LED and try that. Here's some that are not as bright but highlight a little different (better??) pattern of coloring (my platelets and WBCs are more typically-colored for a Wright stain):
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I will say, some of this is my camera. I can get better, more typical coloring with my newer camera on the stains. But, I cannot get proper field depth with that one since it has wide-angle lens, so almost all my captures are done with my older A540. Which leaves much to be desired unless I'm doing dark phase with live blood. (The A540 does pretty good with that).
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: My obvious question is, what type of organism stains YELLOW???!!! A protozoan? Toxo? But, they're supposed to stain blue or purple I think.
Any ideas?
Anyone???
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Personally I don't have a whole lot of staining experience, but I would have just paid more for the real Wright-Giemsa stain if this is what you indeed wanted to do & not a stain that is "like" WG, which would introduce new variables & uncertainties.
It is very hard to say what that is exactly, as it has the consistency of the rest of the surrounding material. It could very well be fragments of RBC"s...just not sure? I think identification of babs, bart, & BLO's requires a trained eye from one who has seen the bacteria in action & has spent some time with it, which I think none of us here have this experience. It has been very difficult for me to get a professional opinion on any one of those organisms in the past. This coupled with the knowledge that babs typically infects <.01% of RBC's & bart infects <.001 of RBC's means getting a positive stain is like hitting the lottery.
I would be more confident in ID'ing if a purple stain was present showing one of the known morphologies (such as the Maltese Cross), which would also increase the chances of a negative ID.
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TNT
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I agree. If I would be seeing the typical ring form or maltese cross in the RBCs I could be 100% sure of what I was seeing. So far, I have not seen that in my stains. I seriously doubt they are RBC fragments. They aren't shaped as such, and they are not stained pink.
As for the quality and consistency of my stains, I don't think that is variable or uncertain anymore. I am using a good standard stain. This is what I used:
Even though the identification of these two objects is uncertain, I still feel they are significant. But more personal investigation is needed to discern what they could be.
According to my Fry protozoan multiplex test, I had a very high load of a type of protozoan that was in the babesia/toxo class. Could these be related to that somehow? I don't know. Probably not if all protozoans stain purple with Wright-Giemsa.
So, at this point, my objects are perhaps "mystery bugs." That's why I posted about it. Just maybe someone will have a clue. In the meantime, I will keep learning, and keep treating.
By the way, I did find another flagellate, but in a family member's blood. They are sick, too. I might publish that video sometime.
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quote:Originally posted by TNT: Probably not if all protozoans stain purple with Wright-Giemsa.
Correction- that smear was stained with the equivalent of a Wright stain, not Wright-Giemsa.
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How many stains in total have you done? The more you do the more likely you are to get a hit.
Funny when I saw all these things grow in my blood as I got sicker & as I saw them grow in my wife's blood, I knew there must be sexual & contact transmission as well. When I mentioned it on this website there was a backlash from some members, who indicated that it was not possible since their partners were not getting sick. But they were forgetting that many people were bitten by ticks & did not experience any discernable symptoms for years. Many people, including myself can carry the bacteria for years without ever knowing. Many people receive treatment & get "cured" only to experience relapses.
My wife is finally getting fatigue, migrating joint pain & migrating body pains on a small scale to the point where she is finally giving into the notion that she is a carrier as well.
It is no wonder that the billionaire John Caudwell has 9 infected family members. His 3x kids, ex wife, 5 close family members & himself all have LD.
"Dairy cattle and other food animals can be infected with B. burgdorferi and hence some raw foods of animal origin might be contaminated with the pathogen. Recent findings indicate that the pathogen may be transmitted orally to laboratory animals, without an arthropod vector. Thus, the possibility exists that Lyme disease can be a food infection."
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TNT, are you vacuum sealing the slide when you do 40x for spirochete viewing? I have been using Vaseline with a Q-Tip to apply it to the slip cover edges ever so gently with success & it is working beautifully.
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: How many stains in total have you done? The more you do the more likely you are to get a hit.
About 4 slides now, not including the ones that flopped. Yes, I plan to keep doing them. If I get well again, I plan to work during the day, and moonlight as a pathologist/microbiologist, LOL!
quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: Funny when I saw all these things grow in my blood as I got sicker & as I saw them grow in my wife's blood, I knew there must be sexual & contact transmission as well. When I mentioned it on this website there was a backlash from some members, who indicated that it was not possible since their partners were not getting sick. But they were forgetting that many people were bitten by ticks & did not experience any discernable symptoms for years. Many people, including myself can carry the bacteria for years without ever knowing. Many people receive treatment & get "cured" only to experience relapses.
My wife is finally getting fatigue, migrating joint pain & migrating body pains on a small scale to the point where she is finally giving into the notion that she is a carrier as well.
It is no wonder that the billionaire John Caudwell has 9 infected family members. His 3x kids, ex wife, 5 close family members & himself all have LD.
"Dairy cattle and other food animals can be infected with B. burgdorferi and hence some raw foods of animal origin might be contaminated with the pathogen. Recent findings indicate that the pathogen may be transmitted orally to laboratory animals, without an arthropod vector. Thus, the possibility exists that Lyme disease can be a food infection."
I completely agree! Definitely, there is sexual transmission! And, I feel there is casual contact transmission to a certain degree as well. Specifically how that is, is a good question. I have my own ideas. As for it being passed orally between animals (and humans), I don't doubt that at all.
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: TNT, are you vacuum sealing the slide when you do 40x for spirochete viewing? I have been using Vaseline with a Q-Tip to apply it to the slip cover edges ever so gently with success & it is working beautifully.
I seal my wet mount samples only about half the time. When I do, I use the immersion oil method.
What is the advantage of using vaseline? I wonder how even that minute amount of manipulation of the coverslip will affect the sample environment.
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When I do oil at 100x then I use the oil immersion method, but when I do 40x I use the Vaseline method since the oil is not needed & I don't have to waste it unnecessarily.
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I wonder if it is possible to exploit this feature to at least clear the spirochetes from the joints of the arms & legs with limited blood flow restriction & exposure to temperatures higher than 106 to the appendages? Continued high temperature exposure in this region might also clear them from the blood. External blood collection & high temperature treatment might work wonders for us & relieve many circulatory symptoms/issues?
"In vitro cultivation of B. burgdorferi at various temperatures demonstrates that the spirochete replicates most quickly at 37°C." (98.6F normal human body temp)
" An increase in temperature to 39°C retards growth significantly, while a 24 hour exposure at 41°C (105.8F) kills all spirochetes in the culture. " It is dangerous to push the body to 106 & not all areas (brain, heart, & organs) may reach this temp because the body protects them through vaso-dilation/restriction throughout).
"Therefore, the optimal growth temperature of B. burgdorferi is only 4°C below the upper lethal limit. The low tolerance of spirochetes for high temperatures is well known and may explain in part the restricted distribution of B. burgdorferi to temperate latitudes and its absence in the tropics, where infected ticks may be exposed to high temperatures detrimental to spirochete survival. Interestingly, the thermal sensitivity of T. pallidum was exploited in the early 1900s prior to the discovery of penicillin by using fever therapy with malaria or relapsing fever infection to treat patients with general paresis (31)."
"During the natural transmission cycle, OspA is produced by the spirochete only in ticks and not in mammals (11, 24, 25), suggesting that growth at higher temperatures downregulates production of this protein. Supporting this concept are observations that the amount of OspA expressed by the bacteria declines when the spirochetes are cocultivated at mammalian host temperatures with tick cells (26), or when they are present in attached, infected ticks feeding on mice (undergoing warming to near 37°C) (24, 25). "
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Big news in the LD arena as they found a new spirochete (B. bissettii) that causes LD & Bb in people who do not necessarily show classical LD symptoms.
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Peter Kemp is sick like us with LD & has done his own microscopy & went further out to culture & stain his the spirochetes.
"The researchers successfully cultivated Borrelia burgdorferi and Borrelia bissettii-like spirochete from these individuals. This is the “first recovery of live Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto from residents of southeastern United States,” writes Rudenko. “And, the first successful cultivation of live Borrelia bissettii-like strain from a resident of North America.”
A modified Kelly-Pettenkofer medium was used to culture the specimens, rather than a Barbour-Stoenner-Kelly-H (BSK-H) medium. The positive cultures were further characterized by DNA purification, PCR amplification, sequencing, sequence analysis and multilocus sequence analysis (MLSA) followed by transmission electron microscopy."
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So which microscope do you need to see the Borrelia spirochetes in your Lyme Disease infected blood?
Any "Lab Grade" microscope can be used & even a 100 year old microscope as Morten Laane has said publically in Under Our Skin 2: Emergence.
Below are some links to microscopes being used by some of the investigators who dare to look & to help you in your selection. Darkfield gives the best contrast between the background blood plasma & the spirochetes, but you can use lightfield, phase contrast or DIC just as well & easily see the spirochetes as demonstrated by some of the video links below.
_____________________________________________________________ User/group: Lymedin2010 on lymenet.org
1) The Amscope type cameras are very useful when it comes to time lapse & I adore them for their software & time lapse feature.The newer USB 3.0 are better for on demand viewing on the screen, as lag time has been drastically reduced between the time you change focus on a slide to the time it is actually displayed on the screen & it is practically real time. The older USB 2.0 cams are a pain for real-time viewing, but still powerful for recording & time lapse.
The settings on the Amscope software are a PITA to set & one thing I do not like about the whole Amscope/software setup, but at least they give you presets to save the settings & recall them if needed on the left bottom parameter pane. PNS & phone cameras are so much easier, you just point the camera & mostly everything can be set to auto unless you wish to tinker with some manual settings but not necessary.
To counter this pain nothing beats direct USB connection & the ability to record directly on a PC while viewing on a monitor & quickly doing time lapse & reviewing video on demand. You also avoid having to hit record on the PNS or phone & destabilize the image, as opposed to hitting record on a PC.
2) Option two is to use any PNS camera (or DSLR or video camcorder) that has a video output & add a video card to your PC. Then you download a free software called VirtualDub & I am sure there might be others out there.
Keep in mind that the screens will be small & you may not see what you want to record necessarily & you may have to find it with the binocular first & then switch over to record. Some cameras have a video output & you can connect a TV or monitor & see the live image in real-time.
3) Option 3 is to use your phones with one of the adapters I have linked & download an app like LapseIt Pro.
Some phones also have the ability to attach a mini-HDMI cable & you can see the video in real time on your TV screen.
################################################## 1000x OIL VS 400x, WHICH TO USE?:
Human blood spirochetes by 400x & the naked eye are difficult to see, but not impossible. Thicker spiros will be visible. The smaller ones, thinner ones, and details can easily be missed & therefore it is beneficial to use a camera (to a TV monitor or USB PC) to see them with the compounding magnification of the camera zoom.
A successful culture of spiros in BSK, because of the many available spiros to view, is easier to see than a direct blood smear with the naked eye @400x, but can still drastically benefit by camera zoom & thus a camera is highly recommended.
Personally, I now prefer to view them under 400x + cam zoom, since this provides a deeper depth of field & more details can be viewed & recorded in one instant. This is in direct contrast to the 1000x Oil view, which intrinsically provides a much narrower field of view & forces one to constantly refocus the fine adjustment to keep up with the motility of the spirochete. So there is a trade-off for the 1000x between greater magnification and detail VS depth of field & the annoyance of constantly have to refocus to catch the details of the ever moving spirochete. The latter will also be affected on the position of the spirochete to the surrounding and its orientation, thickness of the spirochete & its relative speed of motility and can be different for each spirochete on the same slide.
Here is the trade-off summary to help better understand:
400x + cam zoom: Greater depth of field, but loss of magnification & detail. But one spends less time constantly refocusing.
1000x: Greater magnification & detail, but at a loss of depth of field (i.e. the field of view is VERY narrow & as a result one is forced to constantly refocus (depending on spiro size & movement).
What good is having all that extra mag & detail if ones is doing time lapse & your spiro moves out of the narrow field of view & what you record is just blurry detail with really nothing to show for. This is why I prefer 400x when doing time lapse & overall. When I want detail & mag, but I am willing to put in the energies to refocus many times over again, then I use 1000x.
################################################## BORROW/USE A MICROSCOPE IF YOU DON'T OWN ONE:
If you do not own a microscope you can always do the following:
1) Check to borrow or use friends & families.
2) Ask to use one in a local high school or college. You can prepare a 1 day old & 2 day old slide before ever walking into the facility & simultaneously make a fresh smear right before going on site. You can then swiftly make observations of multiple time framed slides, allowing spirochetes ample time (before hand) to burrow out of the rbc's.
3) Seek out a local Microscopy Blood Analysis & they typically charge $100-$150, the monies of which could have been used toward the purchase of your own microscope.
Always keep in mind that if you buy a used microscope, that it will retain an intrinsic value & you can resell your used microscope at a similar price for which you bought it for. Be wise & selective in your purchase & monitor prices. Know that prices for microscope start to go way up around Oct-Dec for the holiday season & then gradually spike back down again into spring & summer time, when most people are in vacation mode & microscope sales are sluggish.
[ 02-09-2017, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Lymedin2010 ]
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Facebook microscopy thread started for those that wish to contribute.
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What???
One of the biggest new optical microscopy technology companies has put out videos stating that these dancing strings are spirochetes (Borrelia burgdorferi) in human blood, but the stupid, moronic, idiots at the CDC can't?
" This video illustrates spirochetes (Borrelia burgdorferi) associated with Lyme Disease in a live red blood cell culture. This video was captured using a research grade optical microscope equipped with CytoViva's patented enhanced darkfield optical illumination system." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWR7AFcgKSc
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For the novice & those that are new....just because one sees strings in their blood, it does not necessarily mean they are spirochetes.
1) For instance one can confuse the glass slide or slip cover glass streaks from the glass cutting process as spirochetes, but they will be very straight, sharp, rigid & non-moving.
2) Then there are artifacts from the RBC, either from the proteins on the RBC's surface or from phospholipid layers of the RBC wall than can break off into a string & move similarly to spirochetes, but with much less aggression. These will not have bulbous tips or bulbous tips in BOTH ends. Sometimes a cocci can stick to one end & give a false illusion.
3) Then there are stand-alone fibrin particles that do not attach or become connected to other fibrin particles & as a result can gyrate similarly to spirochetes, but again they will move with less force & intent and again no bulbous tips.
Because of the above realities I have come up with the below criteria (which I have posted elsewhere before) that will place you into the hump where you can say that you are more confident that these are spirochetes & not artifacts & say to yourself it would be great to ultimately prove this via PCR or DNA Probing.
"When observing I give higher credibility to when I find the following:
1) BULBOUS OR ROUND TIPS ON BOTH ENDS & MEDIUM LENGTH SPIROCHETES. There are spirochetes that do not have bulbous ends & I have seen video of large quantities of these spirochetes PROPOGATED from the people who have chosen to culture them. So they can exist & I have tons of video on those as well, but I chose to dismiss them. There are also many VERY thin ones which lack the rounded tips, which I also have tons & tons of video but I choose to dismiss.
AND
2) SPIRAL OR UNDULATE WITH SOME AGGRESSION. I prefer to see a bit of life in their mobility. Even Dr. Alan MacDonald makes reference to these relatively docile forms that appear rather lifeless.
AND
3) LARGE QUANTITIES OF ITEM 1 & 2. Large quantities of the 2 items above eliminate the possibility of the chance encounter of any aggregates conforming to this configuration.
If you look at the videos of professionals who release their videos, they fulfill 2-3 out of the aforementioned for a high impact reception.
Furthermore, the morphological transformations of cysts & blebbing is a huge advantage for even more positive identification."
################################################ Here are two great resources for many experts in the microscopy field. Furthermore, if anyone has any questions you can always give a shout to microscope dealers locally or online, as they are always willing to help & make a sale.
Peter your work is amazing & just to clarify for the new comers & for those that may not necessarily understand, your culturing work on these spirochetes means the following?
1) You find a smaller amount of these spirochetes in human blood (some peoples blood shows more than others), but when you culture them you are able to see even larger quantities?. Which then means they are living organisms & not mere human cellular debris or artifacts? With this information we can pretty much dispel anyone who says these things are just artifacts?
2) Borrelia produces proteins or antigens on their surfaces & can release them in the surrounding environment. Humans can produce antibodies that are specific to these Borrelia proteins & is the basis for current Lyme Disease testing. The FITC antibodies fluorescence you use are specific for Borrelia antigens & act like a lock and key. Once the key (the FITC fluorescent antibodies) attach to the lock (Borrelia antigens) then they give off a fluorescence. So this not only allows us to say they are living things from item #1 above, but now we can say they truly come from Borrelia & that FITC antibodies fluorescence is commonly used in peer reviewed research papers where there is a need to identify specific organism?
_________________________________________________
Peter's response:
"...that is essentially correct. There is a problem that many of the spirochaetes like the ones that people see on these pages do not bind borrelia antibodies and therefore do not fluoresce with FITC staining. My guess is that this is because most of these are L-forms with unusual or hidden surface proteins. What does stain, is some infected white blood cells, biofilms, some very tiny coccoid forms."
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All of those objects can be found in normal human blood & it is hard to say for sure. I don't see any clear signs of Borrelia.
Perhaps keep on searching.
I am curious what make/model of microscope you are using, since the video is rather blurry & not very sharp and detailed? It is a sign of the objective lenses not being well made & relatively cheap. Yet this should not stop you from seeing spirochetes if there was spiros in the blood.
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quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: All of those objects can be found in normal human blood & it is hard to say for sure. I don't see any clear signs of Borrelia.
Perhaps keep on searching.
I am curious what make/model of microscope you are using, since the video is rather blurry & not very sharp and detailed? It is a sign of the objective lenses not being well made & relatively cheap. Yet this should not stop you from seeing spirochetes if there was spiros in the blood.
It is a very cheap setup. I am looking to get a better video camera.
Thanks for looking.
I was Elisa and Western Blot positive 5 years ago and have been on the antibiotic roller coaster ever since.
Feel like crap....go on Doxy for a month...start to feel better.
A few weeks later the cycle starts again.
Finding a Doc willing to put me on something for 6 months or a year has been almost impossible.
Due to HMO restrictions I have not been to a LLMD yet but I think I am going to have to open the wallet and do it on my own.
Posts: 37 | From Midwest | Registered: Jan 2014
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
If Doxy worked for you then the Cowden Protocol was a surprise to me that it was able to take away my doxy dependency. It is expensive though & just like the abx can wear off.
Buhner's protocol has helped others & is much cheaper & I would try that. Maybe with some GSE, garlic extract, & CBD oil.
Sorry, crazy stuff we are dealing with & can feel like the twilight zone.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
Lida Mattman knows that our blood & RBC's can contain spirochetes, so why doesn't the CDC???
At time 24:28 Lida Mattman shows RBC's parasitized with Borrelia infection. Then she states that "lots & lots of intracellular growth. So you understand how they get hemolyzed cells & are going to feel miserable."
Yea, no kidding!!! Feels like torturous unimaginable hell on earth & as I said before this can explain some of the LD symptoms (circulatory issues, exercise intolerance, feeling of burning & O2 depravation and shortness of breath and heart palps). The RBC's flow randomly throughout the body & at times one gets a mass of heavily concentrated group of highly infected RBC's to parts of the brain or heart & all of a sudden more heavier shortness of breath or the heart starts to palpitate to compensate for the lack of O2 to that organ/area. Then as more randomness comes into play & the higher localized concentration disperses and evens out & balances and the deep shortness of breath & heart palps go away for that moment (or day) only to come back again when it happens again. All this will depend on how heavily infected the blood is AND the infection of the organ/area in question. The hemolytic activity of many RBC's simultaneously can also produce these two latter symptoms.
Lida Mattman goes on to say.... "This is merely blood that was shipped so it had a chance to grow in the shipping temperature & we often find shipped blood will give us a good picture without anymore incubation."
She shows a few more slides & goes on to say that ear pricked blood is a place of stagnation & good for Borrelia detection.
This is basically what I observed & made widely known in my "Horrific Lyme Blood" video, in that spirochetes detect the changes in blood parameters & start burrowing out into the plasma. Over 6-24 hours more & more will come out to the plasma. Exiting will depend on infection load, plasma environment & external temp. Shipping will provide the added benefit of mixing the blood & perhaps favoring some Borrelia growth because of this?
In an ironic twist of fate the simplest of organisms works so efficiently with co-infections and tertiary infections, yet they have gone against the human race & against innocent women & children.
[ 12-30-2015, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: Lymedin2010 ]
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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