I definitely have MCAS like you also. Symptoms since 1991, and some family history too. Thank you for the post and advice on management.
Hominahomina,
Why are you asking about cryotherapy ? I do the Wim Hof Method, which has cold exposure as a component of the method. I never considered cold exposure as therapeutic for lyme. Do you have information that would suggest that ? Or would the cryotherapy just be a pallative treatment for joint issues/pain ? TY (*The cold exposure did help my joint issues markedly in my hands.)
Posts: 15 | From Tennessee USA | Registered: Apr 2019
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I ask because a local cryotherapy office here tells me they have lyme patients that have gotten relief from cryo I don't know if it kills the infection or helps with the symptoms I will know more later
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Digby Thanks for the feedback I assume you have a Austin Healthmate I hope that is correct Could you tell me what model it is, what type of filters it has , and if it is good at removing ozone and smog? I live in a heavily congested urban area that has a lot of smog and ozone
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Homina, Yes the Austin Healthmate. The model is the HM400, which is the basic unit. It is very good at removing small particulates and VOCs. So smog would be filtered out. I don't know about the ozone but it typically degrades very rapidly as it oxidizes the particles in the smog.
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by S13: So 40 minutes basically gave me the same lyme suppressing results as 60 minutes. And i dont even use supplemental oxygen any more. More than 40 minutes and it would aggrevate some of my mast cell symptoms, such as restless legs, fatigue, heart palpitations/rhythm and depression.
So at a certain point i realized that more isnt better and the less i can trigger my mast cells while still keeping lyme suppressing effects, the better.
Right now with my mast cells better under control by diet and supplements i could actually do longer dives without too much problems, but i just feel it isnt necessary.
For vitamin C i only use pure powder ascorbic acid. I think some mcas patients report difficulties with vitamin c derived from corn, but im not sure if that is the problem for you?
The O2 always makes my Babesia come back.
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Thanks Digby Why did you choose the HM400 ?
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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Phoiph
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posted
Charles 12~
It is common to have "flares" of symptoms with mHBOT, as your immune system improves and begins to fight pathogens, including Babesia.
It doesn't mean that the 02 is making your Babesia "come back". It is more likely that Babesia (and/or other pathogens) are still latent in your system, and when your immune system begins to fight, you have a flare.
In my case, consistency over time with mHBOT got me through this phase, and took care of my severe Babesia.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Homina: I honestly don't remember, it was a long time ago. All I can say is I'm happy I did. It is a very well made unit.
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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It is common to have "flares" of symptoms with mHBOT, as your immune system improves and begins to fight pathogens, including Babesia.
It doesn't mean that the 02 is making your Babesia "come back". It is more likely that Babesia (and/or other pathogens) are still latent in your system, and when your immune system begins to fight, you have a flare.
In my case, consistency over time with mHBOT got me through this phase, and took care of my severe Babesia.
It happens if I just use the concentrator separately too. I also begin to react to Babesia medications again if I use it for a sustained period.
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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Phoiph
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Charles12~
Not quite sure I am clear on your last post.
Are you saying that if you use just oxygen from the concentrator (not with the chamber) you have a flare of symptoms?
And, if you use "it" (the chamber, or just oxygen?) for a sustained period, you begin to "react" (how?) to the Babesia medications you are on?
Just trying to understand...
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Are you saying that if you use just oxygen from the concentrator (not with the chamber) you have a flare of symptoms?
And, if you use "it" (the chamber, or just oxygen?) for a sustained period, you begin to "react" (how?) to the Babesia medications you are on?
Just trying to understand...
If I supplement with O2 by using the concentrator by itself, my Babesia symptoms return, and grow worse.
I regularly take anti-malarials, but I don't normally show any herx reaction. The infection is normally suppressed, if not dormant. If I use my chamber for a few weeks, I'll start to herx again. This corresponds with the flare.
If my immune system was just waking up - then I would be herxing on the anti-malarials regardless.
My gut says the O2 does feed the infection.
[ 06-21-2020, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Charles12 ]
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
This whole idea of things feeding microbes in the body is becoming a bit ridiculous if you ask me. In the case of Babesia, its not like oxygen is the limiting growth factor. In fact it can also thrive without oxygen in an anaerobic state.
So if you say babesia symptoms, what symptoms are we talking about?
Getting worse from a therapy is usually because your body cant handle the toxic side effects of that therapy. And yes, oxygen can be considered toxic to the body if not properly bound by things like hemoglobin and if byproducts arent neutralized by antioxidants. Which is exactly what happens when you do hyperbaric oxygen therapy or when you supplement with pure O2.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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posted
Oh just to be clear, im not saying you should continue with the therapy if you feel worse from it. No, in fact if you only feel worse you should definitely stop or change it so that you dont feel worse. You should feel better from a therapy, never worse.
Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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Phoiph
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Charles 12~
I just wanted to give you another perspective on your concerns re oxygen worsening Babesia:
Dr. J, who uses mHBOT in his practice, wrote this in his LymeMD blog in response to a similar question/concern about oxygen “feeding” Babesia/Bartonella:
Question: October 29, 2013 at 4:32 PM “Great to know mild hyper chambers work too, but I am concerned about co-infection, whether or not they will thrive in an oxygen rich body?...like babesa, bart?
A couple of patients report of babesa, bart symptoms increased, pre hyperbaric chamber babesa negative, but post hbot babesa positive and severe fatigue and pain in legs... I am anxious to know your views on this."
Lyme report: Montgomery County, MD said... Answer: “I know this answer is a bit long-winded. This question keeps coming up over and over again. I do not know here this myth came from. But is absolutely false. I fear it may be keeping a lot of patients away from a treatment which might be very helpful.
If this were true nobody would get better since virtually every Lyme patient has co-infections. People do Herx with HBOT so getting worse for a while is part of the process. Oxygen does not act like a fertilizer to promote the growth of various aerobic pathogens/parasites. What is important to hear is that HBOT creates a milieu of: a natural antibiotic, decreased swelling, improved immune function overall, healing of diseased tissues, increased glutathione and improved mitochondrial function. HBOT is used to heal severe non-healing wounds in diabetics, patients with gangrene and other non-healing surgical wounds. All of these infections have a combination of anaerobic and aerobic bacteria. The treatment kills both. And very importantly, HBOT helps break down biofilms” http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2013/10/immune-hyperstimulation-lyme-disease.html
I also want to share an excerpt from a veterinary research study of Babesia in dogs. It is suggestive of how Babesia and other parasites are damaged by oxidative stress...similar to the description of how oxidative stress damages the membrane of the Lyme spirochete.
Oxidative stress is one of the many therapeutic mechanisms in hyperbaric, and, fortunately, with mild hyperbaric, does not cause damage to the body due to a compensatory increase in natural antioxidant production.
Here's the quote from the research article:
“...Many parasites including protozoa are sensitive to oxidative stress. Sensitivity to oxidative stress has been reported in malaria (Rockett et al., 1991), hepatozoonosis (Kiral et al., 2005), tropical theileriosis (Visser et al., 1995) and babesiosis (Stich et al., 1998). Reactive oxygen species (ROS) and Reactive Nitrogen Species (RNS) are powerful oxidants and nitrating species that can inactivate enzymes and initiate the process of lipid peroxidation and nitration, which leads to radical chain reactions that further damage membranes, nucleic acids and proteins (Muller et al., 2003). These processes may ultimately lead to the killing of parasitic organisms (Rockett et al., 1991; Kiral et al., 2005)...”
Another article on the importance of Oxidative Stress (free radicals) in relation to HBOT:
My concern is that you may stop, or only intermittently use a therapy that may potentially benefit you for fear that it is worsening your Babesia. In my opinion, what might help is if you proceed more slowly (but consistently) with mHBOT, so you don't overwhelm your body when your immune system begins to fight the infections.
I am very glad I continued to dive and move through the flares I experienced, as I would have never become well otherwise.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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1. I’m continue to feel excellent, and live a normal and productive life now at 51 y/o. Rarely enter the chamber, maybe 10-20 times a year.
2. This is a video of one of the moms in the FB mhbot group that has used the soft chamber to treat her daughter and Dr Sonners (author of Oxygen Under Pressure). I really appreciate the conversation and answers he gives that seem to linger around soft chambers. He also has a YouTube channel for those interested HBOT USA.
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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posted
Hi Peimomma~
Great to hear that you're continuing to do so well!
The fact that you are doing mHBOT infrequently now while maintaining great health supports my belief that mHBOT is not merely "suppressing" pathogens or temporarily masking symptoms, but is truly healing and normalizing the immune and other systems.
I continue to use my chamber 2-3 times per week if I can...not out of need anymore, but because I find it restorative.
Thanks for the video link, and for your continued dedication to mHBOT awareness. I know you offer a lot of information and support on other forums.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Good information from Montgomery County MD Thanks Phoiph
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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Phoiph
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posted
You're welcome, Homina.
This and other related info and comments on the subject have been posted previously in the thread, so I encourage everyone, especially newcomers, to take the time to read it all.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I did not get a response so let me ask a different way For those of you that experience insomnia when you overexert yourself what do you do to speed recovery to get back to "normal"?
Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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dbpei
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posted
Sleep issues are so hard. I don't usually experience insomnia as a result of over exerting myself. But I do often experience difficulty sleeping through the night with early awakening in the wee hours.
Two things that have helped me are slow release melatonin at 3 mg and edible marijuana. I am a medical marijuana patient so I have gotten advice from my doctor on this. The edible form of marijauna (should be Indica strain to relax you) takes a long time to get into your system, and also a long time to leave it. But you could try a tincture that gets into your system within 15 - 30 minutes, which might be good for your problem.
I don't like the psychogenic effects of MJ, so by taking it at bedtime, when I usually get right to sleep, I am not usually bothered by this. I wish I could offer more help, but maybe some others here will chime in on this. Good luck to you! I know how bad it is when we struggle with getting the healing sleep we so need.
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I haven’t really found a consistent help for sleep. I never really over exert these days, I just don’t have enough energy, but I have realized I sleep better when I do a 30 minute walk or lift light weights. That being said, I still have trouble both falling asleep and waking up many days. I take Pharma GABA and magnesium before bed and I know if I run out of those, I won’t sleep at all. Just did that Monday night. Maybe I won’t let myself run out again after that experience!
About the only thing I can advise for recovery after overexertion is to be kind to your body, rest and give it nutrition with whole foods, no processed fake food.
Dbpei, I wish I could get access to MM!
-------------------- KB Posts: 176 | From Northern VA | Registered: Apr 2015
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Phoiph
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Member # 41238
posted
Homina,
mHBOT, diet, and graded movement/exercise (without overexertion) eventually cured my complete insomnia, but it was a gradual process, and it was one of the last symptoms to go.
My neurologist/HBOT specialist friend explained to me that sleep architecture is very complex, and requires many body systems to be in synch. This balance may not happen until the later stages of healing.
I also agree with Kaibyrd regarding nutrition and restoration of gut health being crucial. Many of our hormones and neurotransmitters, etc., reside there, and gut biome has a strong influence on sleep. You can google "gut biome and sleep" to read more about the connection.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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I think my adrenals become exhausted which is part my fault and I think infection also puts a strain on them
I understand bartonella makes it hard to sleep too
I agree rest and good diet is important to restore the adrenals I find myself craving salt meat cheese raw meat expecially and pumpkin seeds I am using extra vitamin C too which seems to help
Interestingly mHBOT if I am regular helps me sleep along with other things
I did not know all that about gut biome and sleep but it makes sense
I am hoping as I heal getting good sleep will be less of a problem
Thanks all for your feedback
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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Just wanted to share a quick story about Newtowne Hyperbarics. I have a 34" chamber from them and I had a problem with the zipper.
I emailed pictures of the problem to Marie at the company and 3 minutes after I hit send, my phone rang and it was Marie. She said she was sorry for the problem and would send out a new chamber to me.
I asked when I could expect it and she checked with her shipping dept and said it would go out that day! A few days later I received a brand new chamber. I swapped the hardware (she offered to do this for me but it would have slowed down the shipment) and I'm up and running again.
I am the first one to complain about poor customer service but I also think it's important to share amazing customer oriented service when it occurs. It's rare but this kind of service restores one's faith in humanity and I appreciate it.
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Sleep can be such a challenge! It is one of my "symptoms" that occurs in conjunction with gut issues. If my gut is happy, frequently, my sleep is good. It is one of the symptoms I track.
As you all know, I have had mold exposure and am mold sensitive. Sleep is immediately disrupted when I've been exposed...and I often don't know I've been exposed until that night and then I wake up at 2, 3 4am, often with an elevated heart rate.
Throughout my journey with health issues (primarily the last 9 years), I have also developed or uncovered food sensitivities. I am now very very careful to track my foods and not change more than 1 thing at a time so that I know exactly what's affecting me, including supplements. Sometimes that's very hard but its gotten easier b/c my diet is so limited and I've accepted that I can just eat the same things over and over again.
But even this summer, I learned that organically grown lettuce from our garden affected my sleep and gut. I can eat non-organic red leaf or green leaf lettuce from the grocery store w/o a problem. I tried adding just a few leaves from our garden lettuce and I was back to not sleeping and having loose stools and/or diarrhea. I even planted 3 different kinds of lettuce and can't tolerate any of the 3. I discovered this winter that I had similar symptoms to boxed organic spring mix lettuce.
This is just my story. It may not be your's. Because I value good sleep so much ~ it makes all the difference in my day the next day, I work very hard to make it a priority. As I am sure most of us do.
Digby ~ Thank you so much for sharing this great story! I also have a Newtowne. I have not had problems with it so far. I had a problem with the oxygen concentrator early on, which I purchased elsewhere and had a similar experience. He shipped out a new one ASAP and I was only down/without extra oxygen for 2 days.
Stay cool. Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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dbpei
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Great to hear about the good service at Newtowne, Digby! Thanks for sharing good news!
Gosh Carbokitty, that is amazing how you figured that out with the lettuce. I will have to start doing some better tracking of what I eat to see if I can find any relationships with regard to sleep! thanks for the tips!
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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That is interesting about lettuce For me eating lettuce at night organic or otherwise helps me sleep it seems and the lettuce from the garden organic seems to work a little better that is a subjective observation
Digby I am sending you a private message about your chamber I have a question Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
I have not gotten a response on cryotherapy for lyme from the company that does it over here I asked how cryotherapy could kill off a bacterial infection .. They did not respond as far as I can tell
Question Have any of you tried Molecular Hydrogen or done some research on it?
Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Homina, I've done quite a bit of research on Molecular Hydrogen (MH) and got excited about it, especially because the antioxidant effect is rapid which works better with mHBOT vs. antioxidant supplements like CoQ10.
FWIW...I tried the tablets and purchased a hydrogen water machine which I used for ~ 6 months with no noticeable results.
Another one bites the dust!
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Hi Team: Wow! It is great to hear you are doing so well Peimomma . And S13!! That is awesome. I am still diving daily and I would say my bart, babs and Lyme is SO much better. Thank you to Phoiph, Digby, Peimomma etc on guiding me.
I wanted to share a little bit about Oxyhealth and how amazing they have been to me of late. For whatever reason, there was a manufacturing issue on my solace bladder exchange of late and because of the hassle they are upgrading me to a new Respiro. I run two businesses myself so I like to recognize when businesses that we are so dependent on with MHBOT, go the extra mile for their clients. I am SO GRATEFUL! Just wanted to share this in the event anyone was looking to buy a chamber from Oxy. They will partner with you to make sure you are happy!
Keep diving all.... XO
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Hello, Folks,
Checking in and reading the posts since my last visit.
As for air purifiers, I have three different kinds:
a Honeywell with washable filters for immediate results,
a Venta Airwasher that's primarily for humidifying and exposes the air to water so it also cleans the air,
and a BioGS (prefilter, HEPA filter, plus activated carbon). I use this when I'm sleeping.
I've been cleaning out a LOT of long-neglected things in my house, and needed the Honeywell to make the areas so I wouldn't have a sneezing fit just walking into them. For them, I ran it night and day.
On my chamber, I use a humidifier attached to the O2 concentrator, so all the O2 is filtered through water.
I use an older model Rainbow vacuum that filters everything through water.
These work for me.
Second, on customer service, I got GREAT service from Newtowne Hyperbarics when one of the inside zipper seams failed. I put the valves from the one I had on the new bladder and then shipped off the defective one. UPS picked it up today!
Third, I've had sleep problems for a long time---severe leg cramps that wake me up. I've come to the conclusion that these are a circulation problem.
I'm currently taking Veinesco for this issue---it is supposed to clean out the blood vessels by attacking the calcium-based biofilm surrounding a bacterium and then killing the bacterium.
I have no idea if this "bacterium" is Lyme or something else, but something that deals with biofilm and opens up the blood vessels is sure worth a good try!
I'm doing the mHBOT pretty much daily, and am consistently up to 1 hour with the oxygen mask on. I seem to get better results if I do it early in the morning.
My back issue is pretty much fixed now--lots of chiropractor and physical therapy visits on top of keeping the mHBOT happening.
I'll check in more often, so I won't have such a long post......
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Cass A Could you clear something up ? Are you filtering the air that comes into your chamber by two means? A humidifier and a Rainbow Vacuum cleaner? please clarify and I would like to see how you do this with a picture if possible Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Would anyone be interested in buying a used chamber?
I believe I'm ready to let mine go. It's a Respiro 270.
Moderators, if this is against the rules, just let me know.
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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kgg
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Member # 5867
posted
Homina, I believe CassA is saying when she vacuums that it is a unit that also filters the air through water. I did not get the impression that it is attached to the chamber.
Posts: 1856 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Hi Charles12,
I always try to talk people out of selling their chamber unless they have been completely well for at least a couple of years, and even then it is good to keep it for less frequent use.
Bodies take a huge hit with this disease and can use the extra help over time as they age and face other challenges.
Just my opinion. If you are bent on selling it though, I will let people know. You can PM me with the details.
Posts: 2083 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Even if I was not using my chamber anymore, I would not sell it during this Covid-19 issue. Great first line defense against the virus both prophylactically and if you were to get it.
JMHO
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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dbpei
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Member # 33574
posted
I'm with you on that Digby! I am so glad I have my chamber during this pandemic!
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Homina, Kinda sorta. I went from home bound and using a wheelchair to traveling, hiking and biking from mHBOT and a Keto diet. I was feeling fantastic until I tried to do a mercury detox which set me back. I still hike on good days but no travel or serious, consistent exercise.
I find I do better using the chamber daily for 1 hour @ pressure ( I miss a few days a month) while I continue to figure out how to reverse the heavy metal redistribution that occured.
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Digby Okay Thanks What did you do for a mercury detox that set you back and for how long? Also maybe phoiph and others that have got back there lives could comment on what their maintenance program is like? Thanks
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Homina, I did IV EDTA and pulsed, oral DMSA and Alpha Lipoic Acid. That was almost 2 years ago and I am still slowly getting over it.
Posts: 566 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Oh, Digby. That's so hard. I am sorry to hear it's been such a difficult journey ~ and especially when you were attempting to get better! Ugh.
I didn't have the same, but perhaps a similar experience. I was progressively getting better from my 18 months of antibiotics for Lyme and doing the GAPS diet. I ordered some Lactate free probiotics (bifidus only) and even though I took only a very small amount, it was the start of my SIBO (small intestine bacteria overgrowth) starting in 2014. I have been dealing with that and extensive food sensitivities ever since. Getting better. Little by little ~ but yeah, its been a journey.
Mercury detox is a scary thing. And I'm assuming you were working with someone and not doing the IV EDTA by yourself. Thinking of you.
Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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quote:Originally posted by Digby: Even if I was not using my chamber anymore, I would not sell it during this Covid-19 issue. Great first line defense against the virus both prophylactically and if you were to get it.
JMHO
I actually had it back in April.
For me, it was like a mild case of the Flu. Rapid onset, which was interesting. I got over it very quickly, and I felt normal within a week.
Low fever.
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Carbokitty, yes I was working with a chelation doc. It's sad that in the process of healing ourselves we sometimes get a nasty surprise. Who would guess that a probiotic could cause such trouble? Life is risky.
Homina, there was no way I could have known that I would have the reaction that I did to the detox. So I don't know other than with hindsight I wouldn't have done it at all.
Charles, did you continue with the chamber during the flu?
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. And S13!! That is awesome. I am still diving daily and I would say my bart, babs and Lyme is SO much better. Thank you to Phoiph, Digby, Peimomma etc on guiding me. 
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