posted
Does anyone know about using HBOT for Ulcerative Colitis (UC)? Will mild HBO work for that? If so, how long does it take to see improvements? A family member is being pressured into using a hard chamber at 2.5 ATA for 20 sessions as a cure for his UC.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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Thanks Peimomma for that info keep us posted
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Cass A
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quote:Originally posted by kgg: Homina, I believe CassA is saying when she vacuums that it is a unit that also filters the air through water. I did not get the impression that it is attached to the chamber.
That's correct--I vacuum the rooms with the Rainbow vac. It is not attached to the chamber. I do use the available humidifier on the oxygen concentrator as an additional level of filtration for the air I breathe.
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Cass A
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Hi, mHBOT friends!
I'm still using my chamber pretty much daily. I think it is now causing some detox, as I'm getting a niacin flush sometimes. When I do, I get into my infrared sauna and SWEAT until my temperature comes up to at least 98.6. It's usually lower than 97, so my body is still not winning the anti-infection war.
My schedule has been severely disrupted due to my husband's sudden passing in mid June and having to deal with the (literally) tons of various kind of stuff he left. Hope to get that under control soon. I at least have help from my traditional music friends, neighbors, family, and church, which keeps me really busy!
Good to read about various approaches to issues here.
I still have a leg cramps issue, and was going to try quinine bark tincture in a non-wugar drink, especially since it is also used for malaria, and I have got Babesia in the background, but seems to not be gone.
Comments?
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dbpei
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I am so sorry to hear about your husband's passing, Cass A. It sounds like you have a strong support system and I am glad you have your chamber and the sauna!
Your idea about the quinine bark tincture sounds like a good one. I would go very slowly and see how you react though. Maybe some others here will chime in that have had success with it. Good luck to you and God bless.
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Hi Cass A. (and everyone) ~ I am also so sorry to hear about your husband's passing. So hard, on top of everything else. I'm glad to hear you have help.
I went back and looked and you said previously that you take "lots of magnesium". How much is lots? I ask because I take 1200 mg nightly. That's more than the RDA but I found that to be my sweet spot through trial and error. Just a thought. Maybe you're already there or more.
Best of luck!
Carbokitty
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Phoiph
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Cass A,
You may also be losing more minerals/electrolytes via sweating/sauna usage.
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kgg
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I'm so sorry for your loss as well. My husband gets cramps if he does not drink enough water. I find magnesium is helpful. Lastly, my MIL used to get cramps at night. She drank some quinine tonic water before bed and says it stopped the cramping in her legs.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Does anyone know of a used mHBOT system, including O2 Concentrator for around $5000? Please message me if you do. Thanks.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Dig Check with Michelle Faber on the mHBOT facebook group Cas A I am saddened to hear about your husbands sudden passing
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Hello All I have been meaning to share some observations with this group The first two are related to mHBOT and the last is something that has been helping me
I find Molecular Hydrogen enhances the effects of mHBOT
I find grounding while diving leaves me feeling less amped or toxic when I am done
Cordyceps is for me a useful supplement because it helps the mitochondria I almost feel normal when I use it and it does not hype me like a stimulant
posted
dbpei How I did it with my setup I ran a wire from the ground socket on my extension cord to the air control valve on my newtowne chamber. Then I ran a wire from the air control valve inside the chamber and put in under my back so it touches my skin while diving. I used a multimeter to make sure the ground worked. You can go on youtube to see how to use a multimeter to test ground. If you want I can send pictures just PM me. If you ground from a wall socket make sure you connect to the ground, you don't want to shock yourself
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Homina, I use command strips to hang things in my chamber but because of the curve of the bag, they don't last very long. It helps to clean the area with an alcohol wipe and hold it with quite a bit of pressure for the minimum of 30 seconds.
I'm still experimenting with attaching them at various times during pressurizing. It seems that somewhere between 2 psi and full pressure works. That's all I got. If you figure something out, please share.
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dbpei
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Thanks for that info on grounding Homina.
I have a small cloth bag with a zipper I use to keep everything in that I might need while diving. I hang my remote to the air compressor on a band that I can easily access from one of the gauges.
I also keep a blanket by my feet (I needed one for the first time in months recently with the cooler weather!)
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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Phoiph
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quote:Originally posted by Hominahomina: dbpei How I did it with my setup I ran a wire from the ground socket on my extension cord to the air control valve on my newtowne chamber. Then I ran a wire from the air control valve inside the chamber and put in under my back so it touches my skin while diving. I used a multimeter to make sure the ground worked. You can go on youtube to see how to use a multimeter to test ground. If you want I can send pictures just PM me. If you ground from a wall socket make sure you connect to the ground, you don't want to shock yourself
Homina,
Your post really concerns me! I consulted an electrician friend, and he agreed that this is not a safe idea for a number of reasons.
There are many safer ways to ground yourself without wiring to the ground of a live electrical outlet/cord (while in an oxygen chamber)...just Google them.
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posted
You are Welcome dbpei I should have mentioned using an earthing mat would probably be a better choice in the chamber if you can afford one. I understand the carbon mats ground better (don't know for sure) If you are local to me (I am in the San Francisco Bay area ) I have some Molecular Hydrogen you can try. Although it does seem to enhance the benefits of mHBOT. I don't like it.
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posted
Phoiph In general I agree Not in my case That is why I said that is how I do it
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Phoiph
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Well, you have to consider that people from all over the world are reading this thread and looking for advice...
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Hello All Just wondering if any of you have tried double dives in a day for example two 1/2 hour or longer dives spaced out Did you get better results or not?
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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I just came on to post just the opposite and curious what others think. I recently cut back to 45 min dives. My last 5 (daily) were 45 minutes. (I'm on dive 418). I decided to try it again as my sleep was getting disrupted and I've found before when I've skipped the occasional day that I sleep through the night. Well, I'm here for chronic diarrhea and food sensitivities. The last 4 days, my stools have been formed and this morning, hard, almost constiplated. Prior to this but recently, they've been formed but bordering on soft and almost loose (sorry for the TMI). I went back through my notes and noticed that the last time I tried this (back around dives 311-316), I also recorded formed, almost hard stools. Then I remembered that I did just 40 min at the clinic for the first 3 months before buying my chamber. And I was SOLD on mHBOT because my stools went from diarrhea to formed after my 3rd ever treatment.
Any thoughts on why my stools might be "more" formed with a 45 minute dive vs. 60 minute?
My sleep has also been better.
The reason I went back up to an hour is that I like the "break" from life-LOL. And I frequently do digital jigsaw puzzles in the chamber and sometimes don't have time to finish a puzzle in 45 min but almost always in an hour-LOL.
My main goal is to be able to expand my diet. I'm not sure if this means I'll be able to do it or not or just that my stools are perfectly formed (LOL)
But again, any thoughts why less seems to be more in my case?
Thanks all. Happy diving! Carbokitty
Posts: 118 | From WI | Registered: Apr 2013
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I dont know about your case but i found 40mins to be way more productive than 1 hour. Less side effects, and that means more therapeutic effect. Too much oxidative stress sends me in a downward spiral. A little is good, too much is bad. That is way i use a huge variety of supplements to boost antioxidant reserves. But you know, that is just my case Posts: 387 | From The Netherlands | Registered: Nov 2013
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dbpei
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S13 that is interesting. I may want to try shorter dives to see what happens. I remember reading that taking too many anti-oxidant supplements while diving can be counter-productive as well - taking away the benefits of mHBOT. I hope someone can chime in here on that. Thank you!
Posts: 2387 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I do one dive per day at 1.3ATA. When im traveling i might increase the pressure to compensate for elevation. I find i need to add about 0.01ATA for every 100m (~300ft?) of elevation. So at 1000m elevation 1.4ATA works for me. Going to low and i lose the therapeutic effects completely and within days symptoms start to resurface. There seems to be a certain threshold where the lyme bacteria starts to get affected (annoyed, goes in to hiding, cystic form or whatever). But below the threshold it just doesnt care.
So, side effects of too much oxidative stress for me is just a general downward spiral of symptoms. Most immediate ones are increased restless legs, heart rhythm problems, fatigue, general sense of unwellness / sick feeling, nausea, depression, dizziness and brain fog. Just by staying too long in the mhbot with too high pressure i can induce those symptoms. Not a good thing... And no its not herxing, ive learned my lessons the hard way over the years.
As far as antioxidant supplements go, i heavily use NADH, SOD, Gamma tocopherol (vit E) and Vit C (both water and fat soluble). Ive not found them to be counterproductive with mhbot, instead they make me feel a lot better and allow me to benefit more from the therapy.
But Im just one of those persons with a clear negative antioxidant balance (probably some genetics involved here). So adding antioxidants is of great benefit. That might not apply to everyone obviously.
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kgg
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S13, so do you take those before or after your dive?
Homina, for Lyme patients, I believe diving twice a day to be counterproductive. On the FB group, usually the ones diving twice a day are traumatic brain injury patients, not people with tick born infections.
Carbokitty, I do not know the science behind your situation. But it certainly sounds like you found a sweet spot for diving. If this was me, I would continue at that time, until things change. There is a paper that speaks of "less is more" in regards to children with CP and diving. I think too many times when it comes to medical things we think that more is better. Obviously, for you, that is not the case right now.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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S13 Thanks That is useful information . I think grounding is a form of antioxident as it permits a flow of free electrons (Not electricity) into the body. That may explain why I feel better grounding while diving.
About elevation I am wondering if mHBOT is ineffective at higher elevations in all cases?
KGG Can you explain why two dives a day is counterproductive? Thanks
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kgg
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Homina, I have permission to quote Phoiph. This is what was written back in Feb 2016 in response to Toywalk.
"It is really a matter of balance.
Free radicals are a natural part of our metabolism and play a crucial role in health. Too many, and we have "oxidative stress". Too few, and we have less defenses against pathogens, for example.
mHBOT creates free radicals, and also stimulates the body to produce more of its natural antioxidants to compensate.
Taking too many "artificial" antioxidants (i.e., in isolation; not from food) is now being shown to be detrimental for a number of reasons. In theory, taking too many antioxidants while doing mHBOT could thwart the beneficial action of free radicals.
On the flip side, doing TOO much mHBOT (i.e., multiple times per day...just like too much of any good thing) could surpass the body's ability to keep up with antioxidant production, creating oxidative stress.
posted
Thanks KGG In chatting recently online with Dr Sonners he suggested two dives a day for Lyme bartonella etc. (He did not specify how long each dive should be in this discussion)
I agree that diving too much (overdoing it) may not be of benefit. Everyone is different and after carefully considering the information provided I can decide through trial and error what works best for me including how long and how frequently I dive in a day
I don't think there is a hard and fast rule
Thanks
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kgg
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I agree. We are all very individual. It is just that typically by the time a Lyme patient is using mHBOT they are fairly sick. So for them diving twice a day would be way too much. Additionally, I have found that the Lyme docs or health professionals that have the more-is-better attitude are people who are not sick and do not know the reality of a herx reaction and or feeling worse from a treatment instead of better. So no, not a hard and fast rule. A general guideline that I find sound. fwiw
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dbpei
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Great resources kgg. Thanks to you and Phoiph! This reminds me of why I may want to reduce some of the nutritional supplements I have been taking. They could be counterproductive.
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posted
kgg I agree that to much diving while ill at first is unwise. I don't think you or anyone has the authority to say two dives a day is too much. It could be two short dives. Each person after doing research must decide for him or herself
dppei I just read a post by a person on facebook that claims increasing his anitoxidents improved his recovery. It gets confusing. I can say I use NAC in conjunction with Coffee enemas which increases glutathione and I have benefited from this
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Phoiph
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Homina,
I don't believe anyone here is claiming to have "authority" on protocols.
Kgg stated that it was not a hard and fast rule, but a general guideline that happens to work for most of us who have been involved with mHBOT for years.
The info kgg shared is hard won through a lot of people's trial and error, research, and seeking of expert opinions, in the spirit that others will have an easier path and not have to re-invent the wheel or experience the same setbacks.
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Phoiph and all I also have my trial and error so I share it here I have been trying double diving and 90 minute dives
I tried two one hour dives in a day and that was too much so I dropped down to 25 to 30 minute dives spaced about 4 hours apart and enjoyed good results I am not going to give a report yet because it is too soon
I have been doing 90 minute dives for a few months not every dive but when I can. When I started the 90 minutes it was at that point I noticed the greatest reduction of symptoms.
I have to mention I have been diving for quite some time and I had to build up to it also the reduction of symptoms could be because I have been diving for a few years in conjunction with the 90 minute
Phoiph
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Homina,
Thank you for the link. I appreciate that Dr. Sonners is promoting hyperbaric for Lyme.
The video brought up a couple of points that I feel are worth commenting on, especially for those new to the thread/mild hyperbaric.
Dr. Sonners stated that the study was designed to determine how Lyme patients responded to HBOT at different pressures, and that it was found that it "took a pressure of 2.36 ATA to kill the infection".
I believe the study that he is referring to (as per the reference posted below his video) is a from a 1990 Pilot Program at Texas A&M University, published by Fife in 1998:
Effects of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy on Lyme Disease: hbotxofpalmbeach.com/study_pdfs/Lyme-Fife.pdf
This study wasn't actually designed to determine the effects of different pressures on Lyme symptoms, as all subjects were treated at the same pressure of 2.36 ATA. It did use earlier research (Austin) that determined at what pressure spirochetes would be killed in a lab setting (in vitro). This finding was used to estimate a pressure that would be higher than adequate to kill spirochetes in a human being (in vivo). As it turned out, 2.36 ATA was used as it fell into the upper level of this range, and was thought would be tolerable by subjects.
My point is this: unfortunately, the LOWEST level of pressure required to kill spirochetes in vivo was not reported in this study, and to my knowledge, it has still not been studied. Using Austin's data from the Fife study, it would seem likely that a much lower pressure could be lethal to spirochetes than what was reported.
I feel this is important to point out because many people, especially to those new to hyperbaric, may have read the Fife study and feel they must use high pressure in order to "kill the bugs"
Fortunately, we now understand the power of lower pressures used consistently over time, which may directly "kill the bugs", but more importantly, enhances the immune system which is the ultimate weapon.
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Cass A
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Hi, Friends,
Just checking in again---every few months I like to catch up on what people are doing and their results.
I've noticed that I start to get "edgy" in the chamber after about 40 minutes, and just want to get out and do stuff.
So, this discussion of time in the chamber has been very interesting to me!
I think I'll try getting out when I feel like it, instead of forcing myself to stay in the chamber for an hour.
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dbpei
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I sometimes feel ready to leave the chamber sooner than an hour is up also. It will be interesting to see how you do with shorter dives, Cass A. I remember reading that you can get more healing benefit out of 2 short dives than one long one.
I am considering taking a break of a few weeks or decreasing the frequency of my dives to see if it makes me feel any better. I am at 245 dives and looking back on the past few months, I have noticed that I have seemed to reach a plateau and I am more symptomatic than I was a few months ago.
The doc who runs the mhbot clinic who introduced me to mhbot told me he recommends taking a few weeks off after every 40 consecutive dives, as healing often takes place during the break. For those of you who have been diving for a while, what has your experience been with taking breaks?
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kgg
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I really tried hard to dive daily for 2 years. I may have missed a day here and there, but did not take a break. I too have read the suggestion to take a break after 40 dives. But I wonder if it was suggested in the context of treating tick born infections. Not sure I would have made much progress if I took a few weeks off every 40 dives. But that is just me.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Out of curiosity Do any of you do yearly or bi-yearly cleanses If so what kind of cleanse do you do?
Thanks
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Phoiph
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I will try to locate the source, but I have read that it takes at least 40 minutes for full oxygen saturation to take place, which is why an hour has been a recommended standard treatment time.
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