posted
Im hoping that as well. Recently started DEC, planning on alternating it perhaps with albendazole.
But im still not sure that will get rid of the adult nematodes. TBH i dont know where they reside in the body, but im suspecting the small intestine.
I also read that hookworm used to be treated with Epsom salt. The salt would break down the protective mucus layer in the gut, allowing other substances like Thymol to kill the worms.
So is that why Salt/C works? Does it remove the protective barrier of worms in the gut? So dont we all need to do that if we have parasites?
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lpkayak
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Up for ryan
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glm1111
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Salt puts the parasites into osmotic shock. (dehydrates them) Think of when you put salt on a worm on the sidewalk. They shrivel up.
Gael
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I've been doing Salt/C for about a week now. I've been doing 1-2 teaspoons of salt and several grams of Vitamin C morning and night. It seems to be making a difference (I am dealing with a tapeworm).
I've been taking castor oil by mouth (followed by coffee) and doing castor oil enemas, on daily basis. This seems much more productive than just coffee enemas.
I seem to remember reading on this thread that it's better not to use anti-parasite herbs in combination with Salt/C. Is that correct? What is the reason for that?
Is there anything else that I should consider doing - or consider not doing - while on this Salt/C protocol?
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glm1111
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Starting with 1-2 tsps. is WAY too much. The advised starting doses are 1/4tsp sea salt and 1/4tsp of c mixed in a large glass of water, otherwise you could herx too hard and get dehydrated.
Drink extra water as well as coconut water to help balance electrolytes. Hopefully you are using SEA SALT!!. I have always used antiparasitic herbs along with salt/c as it will pack and extra punch. Again start with a low dose and work up from there.
Gael
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Plain sea salt seems pretty toxic to me. I am using RealSalt from Utah.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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karenl
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S13, where did you order your DEC? Do you have a good source? Would like to order it as well.
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posted
Ive send you a PM!
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Catgirl
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Wow, just passed a 13 inch worm (rope), with several of his friends! He was a thick one too (1/2 inch wide). I feel so much better when they leave.
This must be a crazy full moon coming up, I am testing positive (muscle testing) for lots of anti parasitic stuff (higher doses). Lyme herbs too. I took a ton of cats claw today.
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Strange on what you've been noticing, I've been thinking perhaps a sudden increase in my symptoms is need for a parasite treatment, even though it wasn't that long ago I finished a round.
dal123, DEC is diethylcarbamazine, an antiparasitic used to treat filarials.
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Catgirl
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Thanks gz!
Good to treat before and after full moon, although I am always working on them, as they just lay eggs and repopulate.
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Haley
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S13 did you take the DEC? How is that going?
Also, has anyone used lugols iodine for parasites?
Catgirl, are you mostly well now? I know that you have been doing the parasite thing for a while.
[ 06-01-2015, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]
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lpkayak
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Catgirl...what do you mean a ton. What is a large dose of cats claw. Thx
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posted
Yes ive taken DEC, but only for a short period. For me it didnt seem to change much, compared to ivermectin and albendazole.
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Catgirl
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Haley, no not well. I'm better in some areas but still have lyme and company. I've also used lugols but not sure it did anything for parasites.
Lp, 2000-4000 mg/day.
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Haley
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Catgirl how long have you been doing the anti-parasitics? Which symptoms have subsided? Do you notice is Lugols helps certain symptoms. I'm trying to take one drop a week and it kicks my butt completely.
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Catgirl
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I've been treating parasites for a couple of years (2 or 3). Neuro symptoms improved a lot, also sinus issues (gone), no more hay fever, and no more teeth pain (grinding).
I have much more energy now than I had before. I actually put on a few pounds this past year (good for me as I was too thin).
Iodine helps me with yeast and thyroid (muscle test) and maybe amoebas (just found this below). Unfortunately, iodine also feeds proto. I take it every few days now but it has taken a long time for me to get to this point. I also only take 3mg.
Maybe it's killing some amoebas, or check out proto, maybe that is doing it to you? Funny, I'm herxing right now and I had iodine today (lol)!
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glm1111
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;)Hope everyone is doing well! Way to go Catgirl passing that big sucker. Don't forget about using cloves for eggs. I used to put cloves and cinnamon in my coffee and it helped a lot getting rid of a ton of stuff.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Catgirl, why do you think iodine "feeds" proto? That seems very unlikely.
quote:The great advantage of iodine antiseptics is their wide scope of antimicrobial activity, killing all principal pathogens and, given enough time, even spores, which are considered to be the most difficult form of microorganisms to be inactivated by disinfectants and antiseptics.
posted
For all of you with parasites in the gut, do any of you have problems with your ileocecal valve?
Ive read that ileocecal valve problems can be triggered by intestinal parasites. And having that valve stuck open is a very bad thing.
So if you do, was there any kind of parasite treatment, or other treatment that helped the ileocecal valve to operate better?
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glm1111
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I have ileocecal valve problems. It feels like a gastroporesis being caused by the parasites bunching up as I am killing them.
Got rid of a TON of parasites/flukes/eggs early on but have smaller parasites that have made their home in my chest well as detected by a cat scan. Am getting rid of this infection little by little using salt/c. and antiparasitic herbs.
Not easy,but am making progress. Don't think their is any simple answer for this. Patience and persistence has been key.
Gael
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Catgirl
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Thanks Gael!
S13, minerals feed proto.
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quote:Originally posted by Tammy N.: I don't know how stool samples are tested. I just know they are almost always negative. Maybe they take a small smear and look at a small amount and perhaps nothing is visible in that smear?.
Just reading through old threads thing to catch up.
I've done fecal smears before, and what you are looking for depends if you wet mount or dry mount.
If you do the smear immediately as a wet mount, you are looking for motile forms.
In dry mounts, you use various techniques. Like an acid fast, In which you use various stains and rinsing of the slide. In one method, the background would be blue, and the organism would show up, say red, for Cryptosporidium. The staining would be uneven on the structures of the organism.
You can also search for ova (eggs) of the parasites, which is a great way to confirm parasites.
You can also do a gross examination and see certain worms, and tapeworm segments.
A negative stool test could mean, you have no parasites. Or, none were shed in that sample. My main concern is that most fecal samples are not run immediately after collection, and not repeated.
I think some labs will culture (attempt to grow) potential pathogens, or do antigen tests. I was a vet tech so I've only tested animals, which frequently come up positive.
There is a lot of stuff, undigested bits, plant matter and whatnot that look like parasites. Unless you have a large tapeworm, I'm skeptical that what a lot of you are seeing is what you think it is. But as we never deworm ourselves, perhaps they are more common than we think.
The 2 main types of intestinal parasites are helminths and protozoa. Helminths are generally visible to the naked eye in their adult stages only, whereas protozoa are not. These parasites are only visible under magnification, minimally 10x, and clearer at 40x and 100x.
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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glm1111
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Willy Burgdorfer found Filarial worms in the original ticks he dissected. Dr Eva Sapi a researcher from Conn. found them in over 40% of the ticks she dissected.
I had 20" worms, large and small eggs and flukes as well as a tape worm exit after strong antiparasitics and salt/c. The parasites pictured on www.lymephotos.com also exited from my colon, scalp and mouth.
They appeared as large as they look on the site. I guarantee that most of us are seeing parasites and are NOT delusional!
Gael
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Catgirl
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Ditto (agree with Gael).
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You must have misunderstood my post, I wasn't stating that people don't have or might not see these parasites. Simply that there are a lot of things that LOOK like parasites that aren't.
A really good example is that plant cells look like worms. They can appear long, thin, and transparent. Some are surrounded by blue threads and or purple threads or look very colorful. They are often confused for parasitic nematode worms.
In the lymephoto website, the resolution is pretty poor to be able to determine the structure in a lot of the pictures. Its not magnified enough to separate plant cells from an animal parasite. The overall shape is not enough for ID, the inside structures or mouthpieces need to be shown. Nematodes are bilaterally symmetrical, elongate, and usually tapered at both ends:
This is a great photo of a tangle of fillarial worms:
One thing that's tripped me up before is yeast. The worst was yeast forming pseudohyphae like this:
It can be really difficult to separate out the actual parasites from the artifacts, especially if you don't have a good microscope or staining technique.
In tapeworms, I would expect to see a head and segments. I haven't seen any come out of me yet. In looking at poop, Ive learned that oftentimes I am wrong in my first impression in what I am seeing.
It would be nice to have someone really start looking into this and getting samples from us Lyme sufferers and getting good photos, since most doctors think parasites aren't a thing, or its just "Pseudoparasitism" ie accidental host.
I have done ~3 months of Byron White A-P drops, and I did 1 month of the Freedom, Cleanse, Restore from Dr Omar M. Amin. Once that is done, not sure what my next step should be.
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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To me it looks a lot like some kind of parasitic worm. If I was looking at this, Id focus in one the ends, to look for the head, or some type of internal structure.
Makes me wish I had a microscope at home to see if I can see anything. Id have to set up a room and have my own stains, kind of a hassle.
I haven't tried the salt thing that people here are talking about. Not sure what it really entails. My AP drops (byron) had wormwood I think in them. Wondering if I should continue along the herbal path, or do something more like DE or use salt?
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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dbpei
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Wow, those pictures sure could fool me. Thanks for posting. I am pulsing liposomal artemisinin and during the days I take that, I see a lot more stuff that resembles parasites.
So I am assuming it is probably helping me to get rid of some of the stuff that has been keeping me ill. I like to think so anyhow!
During the time I took Hanna Kroeger wormwood complex, my liver enzymes went up so I had to stop. It is hard to believe that herbs could do that, but they are pretty potent. I have heard that Byron White AP is pretty potent too!
I did Salt C for a while. If you choose to do that, make sure you get the e-book and follow correctly - going very gradually and slowly. Make sure you use only sea salt and drink lots of water. It works for many.
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glm1111
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Andromeda,
I appreciate your due diligence in trying to show what may be something other than parasites that people may be seeing. I am sure that other debri such as a plant hair might appear under a microscope in some stool.
Speaking from personal experience, I didn't need a microscope to identify the parasites I was seeing as they were macroscopic in appearance. Some of them were EXACTLY in color and size as shown on the lymephotos site.
I did six months of antiparasitic herbs without having anything exit. When I added the salt/c, I had a mass exodus of parasites, flukes and eggs exit for months. Parasites can't tolerate salt because it puts them into osmotic shock(dehydrates them) and the let go.
Maybe you have to experience this first hand to remove any doubt you may have. Persistence is key in getting rid of parasites. I wish you luck in this endeavor. It is well worth the effort.
Gael
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posted
hi guys, little while since I dropped in. Hope you are all making progress with your treatments!
I'm on ivermectin, albendazole for protomyxzoa for about 3-4 months now, it has been kicking my butt but am making some really solid progress that has been giving me a bit of hope, but I try and not get too optimistic, let's see what happens with time
The ivermectin seems to hit this bug really really hard in my case. Once the brutal herx dies down after a few days I feel closer to my normal self than I have in years. I'm also on montelukast which helps cut the herx down a bit, I've also noticed that drinking chamomile tea takes the edge off, at least for an hour or two. Funny.
It is a long hard road, I probably had a high infection burden or some nasty variant or some such thing hard to say as there is so little info on PR (I was bedridden for years with terrible chronic pain and fatigue before I got any treatment). I stick really close to the recommended diet, it has been helpful for me but probably entails some risks as well.
Who knows what the endgame is, I hope I can get to baseline or close to it (isn't that what we all hope for with our treatments!). One cool thing is that my pain has improved so much I've been able to finally cut out meds I was taking for pain management and anxiety due to dealing with this condition and pain.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it makes my path seem a little less scary, less lonely, and adds motivation and also hope
[ 06-25-2015, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: sebreg ]
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The plant hairs also puzzled me at first, they look just like nematodes or some kind of parasitic worm under the microscope.
On another subject, I have already posted this time lapse picture of my blood on the previous page, but i have finally figured out what it is:
Its actually a fungal form transforming to a "true" hyphae form (as opposed to a "pseudo" hyphae form). So most likely its candida, traveling in the blood!
Most LLMD's seem to think candida is bound to the gut only, but this time lapse provides some solid proof that fungal forms can and do travel around in the body via the bloodstream.
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So thats exactly what i see in my blood. So it wasnt a parasite after all!
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Haley
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S13 - what kind of microscope are you using and what type of camera? I think I saw your posts on the microscope thread, but not sure I saw which microscope.
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Catgirl
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Sebreg, so nice to hear you are doing better! PR has been a long road for me as well.
I am so happy to hear you knocked your pain down. Diet alone did that for me (99% vegan). Low fat helps too. I had to add a little more fat in though as the very low fat diet was affecting my hormones, sleep, adrenals, etc.
That said, I think the low fat diet knocked PR back enough for other co infections to pop through. I think they were hiding in all the biofilm PR makes.
Knocking parasites back has helped me with babs, cognitive issues, weight and more. I weigh 10 lbs more than I did a year ago, which is a bonus for me.
I'm glad chamomile helps. Green tea helps me too.
It's amazing how much parasites affect us. They are the hidden co infection that most people have no idea exist.
P.S. You're not alone. My doc says lots of people have proto. I think most people don't even know they have it.
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quote:Originally posted by Haley: S13 - what kind of microscope are you using and what type of camera? I think I saw your posts on the microscope thread, but not sure I saw which microscope.
Im using a rather old Olympus E Series binocular microscope, with darkfield condensator. It was old and cheap, but it works like a charm. Those old microscopes were built to last.
I sometimes use my digital compact camera, a simple Canon Ixus 80IS, that i just keep in front of the eyepiece. I also have a Euromex CMEX 5 MP USB Camera, that i use for making longer time lapse recordings. Like the one that shows candida growing in the blood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAYKAR9X2Q (at the time i thought this probably was a contamination, now i know it probably wasnt!) It shows a different kind of growth however, more like the pseudohyphea kind.
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Haley
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Wow, that is amazing, I may send you a private message with more questions S13
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Hey Catgirl! so glad to hear the diet has helped you as well! do you have the PR and other infections under control now? Are you still chipping away at them or have you reached a baseline?
I really can't believe how tough and tenacious these things are. I could never have imagined of such weird chronic nebulous diseases before I came down with this thing.
It's been a grueling test, I feel like the treatment, which is tough due to herxing, slowly chips away at the disease burden but wow it is a tough long slow grind!!! Can be rather difficult at times, it is mentally and physically exhausting. But frankly, I believe these treatments are what I have to go through to give myself the chance to claw back every ounce of health and quality of life possible. But it is always great to be able to hear from and chat with others who are going thru similar experiences and can understand the magnitude of difficulty in dealing with these illnesses and their treatments.
How do you feel about coffee? I'm trying to cut back a bit. It's something that gives me the illusion of energy and focus but not sure if it is helpful for my overall condition. Especially with herxing, I feel it may exacerbate that. I know people are all over the place on coffee and it is probably very much based on each person's individual preferences, physiology, and specific pathologies.
And do you guys have any thoughts on Hyperbaric oxygen therapy for parasite and related illnesses? I'm trying to look into that a bit, but I'm not sure if it can be helpful for PR. I've read it can be helpful for lyme (which I'm pretty sure I don't have) but not the co-infections. I asked my dr, and he said it can't hurt, but I'd rather not be tossing money down the drain if possible.
One neat thing is I'm able to exercise with a real energy now, which I haven't been able to do for the past 10 years. Unfortunately I still get post exercise pain flare-up/malaise (but not to the degree I used to), especially if I exercise hard. It is rather frustrating, I'm grateful I can exercise, heck I'm grateful I can walk! but I hope I can get to the point where I don't pay any price for exercising. Hopefully over time I can knock this thing back far enough that I can exercise with relative impunity I was an exercise junky before illness.
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Catgirl
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Sebreg, yes I have PR and lots of other co infections, but not under control. :( It's a battle for sure. You're right, it is mentally and physically exhausting, but I think we have to go through it to beat it.
Um, well I have coffee all the time via coffee enemas (lol!). It really helps with the herxes! I fought for so long NOT to do them. I just couldn't wrap my head around doing them. But then I caved and tried one and was hooked. It is so nice to feel instantly better. So worth it.
As far as drinking it, I think as long as you can sleep it's not a problem, but if you have the dreaded insomnia that typically comes with proto, then maybe some decaf? I dunno. We are all so different. Whatever works for you! :)
Phioph has a great thread on mild Hbot. I believe it kills tons of stuff. I am a little hesitant to try it though, as I don't want to feed nasty PR. I'm not sure that it does feed it, but I heard or read somewhere that oxygen feeds babs, and since PR has similar symptoms as babs, I just thought, oh well, not for now.
Phioph was really sick though, and it brought her back, but I'm not sure what she had.
I know what you mean about energy. It is such a gift for people who lost it. My energy gets stronger the more I treat parasites. I think they suck the nutrients right out of people. It seems like the more I kill the stronger I get.
Exercise really helps me with herxes, and overall mood, hormones, lyme, etc. I can't exercise like I used to (aerobic), but can do anaerobic stuff.
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Haley
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sebreg - go with your intuition when it comes to coffee. I feel much better when I don't drink it, but that is a tough one to cut out. It's my last "fun" thing left. I'm convinced I'll heal faster without it. It just takes a while to wean off of it.
I am doing hyperbaric oxygen. My "gut" feeling is that it kills a lot of pathogens while simultaneously building the immune system, so hopefully the bugs that don't die from the oxygen will be knocked down by the immune system.
My personal opinion on mHBOT and parasites (large ones - worms!) is that it will take more than oxygen or a strong immune system to knock them out. I'm talking about parasites in the blood not in the digestive tract. That's why I plan to take a day here and there to kill off parasites while continuing to do the oxygen.
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Catgirl: Do you feel you are making good progress overall? I'm sure there are ups and downs in the process. For me ivermectin seems to be the key medicine. I was on zithro and malarone before, they worked, and I herxed quite a bit, but not sure if they were going to advance me fast or far enough. The ivermectin was basically a nuclear bomb for me in terms of herx, but it seems to really work against this thing! herx has become more manageable but still tough and probably indicates there is still a pathogen burden of some significance, even if I have cut burden way back from what it was originally. This thing is ridiculously tenacious and tough!
And thanks for the hbot info, I may have come across that thread where you mentioned hbot possibly feeding babs and I think that added to my hesitance. I need to look up the hbot feeding babs thing, possibly people are herxing? I felt reassured that my dr says hbot can't hurt, as he is a pretty sharp guy when it comes to the mechanics and biology of these illnesses, but still, you can't be too careful! Next time I see him I'll run thru some of my questions and concerns regarding hbot, I also want to hear if has seen any of his patients improve with that therapy.
Exercise is a true therapy. I love it, it helps make me feel human and closer to normal again haha! and definitely helps mentally.
Haley: Awesome that you are doing the hyperbaric, how long have you been doing it? Do you feel it is helpful? sometimes it can take a while to see results? And I agree, at least for PR, but probably for most of these stubborn chronic cases, my guess is multi-pronged approach is important, but strong rx/herbs are often key to really cut these things down.
On the coffee... it is the toughest thing to give up! I love it so much, but will go ahead and trial drinking decaf during the week and then 0 coffee on days I take my meds as those days I am shot anyhow and coffee ain't gonna help much. If there is a chance it makes the road a little smoother then I figure I should give it a shot.
Any thoughts on sauna therapy? I've started using my local gyms dry sauna, I'd love to do fir sauna but I'm going with what I have easy access to. Really not sure how effective it might be, but Dr seems to recommend sauna therapy. Proto doesn't like heat, as well as other pathogens like lyme and some of the confections. Hence sauna may be beneficial, or so the theory seems to go? at least sauna is an innocuous adjunct therapy that poses very little risks even if benefits are iffy. Plus it could be good for detox. Or relaxation and stress.
I got the gut test from Fry Labs, am waiting for full results but preliminary seems to indicate that bacteria is fine but proto may be in my gut. Kind of bums me out, I was hoping it was limited to one body system, vascular, but this thing has hit me so hard that my intuition kind of doubted it could only be limited to one body system. As far as I know I don't have lyme or any other confections, obviously can't rule out the possibilities, but a lot of my symptoms seem to line up perfectly with PR and that is what I have lab dx for.
I really hope they can keep finding out more and hopefully build up greater research on this basket of illnesses. Would be pretty helpful and we'd end up with better more targeted treatments.
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Catgirl
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I feel like I'm inching along slowly. I think it's the lyme, co infections, detox issues (genes), metals, and mold and lots of parasites. That's a lot, and for sure proto is protecting everyone (biofilm).
I take iver but it doesn't hit it as hard for me as alinia does. Alinia is tough. I feel like it just takes time and patience, so I agree, it is a long slow grind.
I've heard that sauna drives the meds deeper, but don't know for sure. I do look and feel better after I do FIR sauna. It's hard to do during summertime though. I hate heat when it's hot (lol)!
I'm with you, I hope they find out more on how to deal with this bug. I wish all the lyme docs and Dr. F would get together and share info. IMO, proto holds everything up.
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Glad to hear there is progress for you even if it is slow. I've tried alinia seems effective for me as well, I may look into using it down the line. It's just surprising (I shouldn't still be surprised) at what a monumental slow, arduous undertaking it is to keep knocking this thing back. I guess I need to remember how far I've come and not how far I still have to go.
When I think about how much further to go it can be a little disheartening and overwhelming. I reached a point a year ago where I got sick with settling and needed to see if I could get more quality of life back with new treatments. Not sure I realized that would entail such a process, but I don't regret it and am grateful for progress and effective meds.
That's cool about the sauna, someone mentioned that on the Facebook pr group as well. Any little trick that can help with treatment is worth exploring!
And I agree, really wish there was more information being shared. I like Dr F but wish he was getting his info out there so people could test it out and confirm/deny in their own studies. I guess he is protecting IP or something, or maybe his idea is so novel that he really needs to make sure the research is unbelievably solid and well put together before publishing. I don't know how the research world works, especially when one is an independent researcher.
Thanks for your messages, so helpful to vent a bit and be able to share Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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Catgirl
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quote:Originally posted by sebreg: ...It's just surprising (I shouldn't still be surprised) at what a monumental slow, arduous undertaking it is to keep knocking this thing back. I guess I need to remember how far I've come and not how far I still have to go.
When I think about how much further to go it can be a little disheartening and overwhelming.
Ditto (I've had the same experience)! Sebreg, you have such a wonderful way with words and describe it perfectly! It can be overwhelming at times. I try so very hard to stay positive and envision myself beating this bug.
Imagine people who don't know they have this parasite! It would take a lot for them to figure this out.
In the meantime, I am thankful that the parasite meds not only knock PR back, they also kill parasites. Are you seeing any strange little creatures exit from the parasite meds?
I do think it's important to keep trying new things, and figure it can't hurt. I think I will up my sauna game this summer now. Lyme hates heat too, so that may be why I feel better after I do it. It also helps to get toxins/mold out.
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Aww thank you Catgirl! same deal here, maintain positivity, focus on the gains and making progress, and I suppose if one is still reacting to meds I take it as a good sign.
It's amazing though, after I dose with ivermectin, the herx is still strong and it does affect me mentally increasing anxiety and stress (and flares up lymph node pain and fatigue). Usually lasts 24-48 hrs and then the anxiety and stress are washed away. Like night and day.
Btw, I took my ivermectin dose before sauna yesterday, and wow, I think the sauna really did "push the meds deeper." Not sure it is smart, but if it increases med effectiveness, hmm, might keep experimenting with that. Did you say you have a fir sauna? do you have the soft one or a wood fir sauna?
You know, I've never seen any little creatures exit with the parasite meds. Which leads me to believe my main issue is probably protomyxzoa and possibly some other microscopic culprits in the lyme family or some other unknowns.
I really like my dr but I'm thinking of trying to see an llmd here in the Phoenix area to have a fresh set of eyes and look into lyme and coinfections, would like a strong double check with tests on all that.
If you have lyme, can the symptoms stay static? for me, my main symptoms stayed pretty much the same: fatigue, terrible chronic pain of lymph nodes behind ears, also used to have pain at back of head for a long time but that is gone now. Also poor circulation, cold feet and hands. Also anxiety. The symptoms stabilized and didn't get worse, even though they were terrible.
All these things are better now as I'm going thru treatment, the lymph node pain is the one I'm really trying to knock out.
One funny thing I've noticed with coffee in my case. Whenever I take effective meds I tend to get rashes on my left forearm, shoulder, and chest. Well, as I've cut back on my coffee consumption these rashes are disappearing. Just a weird observation. Before illness coffee never caused any issues for me. My guess is that the best thing for me is to lay off coffee, at least until I can make it close to baseline where my body reacts less to meds. Not sure I can stick with it though, coffee is so good. We'll see Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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glm1111
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Coffee has many health benefits and nutrients, not to mention it is VERY high in antioxidants. It also opens the bile ducts. I sometimes add cinnamon and cloves to my coffee. Cinnamon is anti candida and cloves helps get rid of parasite eggs. Google coffee health benefits and decide for yourself.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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oh heck yeah coffee is an awesome drink with great benefits. It is also very chemically complex, and something might be going on with it that makes my herxing worse? hard to say, I'll just taper back for a while, def won't ever quit it that's for sure Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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Catgirl
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Yes, a fir sauna (wood). I tried it today and felt dizzy afterwards, but then I upped my iver dosage yesterday so maybe that had something to do with it (not sure).
I think you are wise to check out lyme with an LLMD. Lyme usually comes with co infections. If that's the case, your anxiety could be bart. I've found the parasite meds can subside my co infection symptoms, but eventually they pop back up again.
You know about the lyme tests right? I tested negative until I was on abx for a few months, then tested positive (common). Lyme and company can easily avoid detection. Lyme is also very different for each of us. My husband barely has any issues at all.
I think lymph node pain for me was parasites (gone now, thankfully). I have taken lots of anti parasitic herbs and also salt c to knock parasites down. The thing is, they don't always show up in the commode. It has taken major work to get them out, and my doc even said that sometimes they don't let go easily for people with babs.
Have you tried cloves yet like Gael suggested? Now would be a good time as the full moon is coming up (now is when they reproduce). I think everyone has parasites and that lyme patients have more of them and just need to knock them back.
Wow, I am not sure about the rash connection to coffee. My LLMD told me that rashes are usually bart related though, but in your case maybe it's an allergy (not sure)?
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glm1111
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Catgirl,
In case you missed it, we have two full moons this month. The first one is on Wed July 1st and the second one is called a Blue Moon on July 31st. Has anyone looked into medical astrology? I have investigated it some and discovered that parasites and infections were in my chart.
Also just read (sorry can't remember the source,(might come up if you google birth mos and diseases) that certain birth mos had different maladies. Of course mine indicated parasites and infections. UGH!!
Gael
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Catgirl
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OMG, 2 full moons? Argh! No travel for me in July (lol)! I can't remember if the blue moons were strong ones. Oh well, ordering lots of herbs.
Very cool about medical astrology. I will do a search on it and birth months. Thanks Gael!
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LisaK
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hi, I have never posted on this thread (I think) and I cannot read all this info, so I am going to ask a question and hope someone can help . if you know something about what I am asking- if you could PM me about it- I would appreciate that as I do have trouble sifting through all the other stuff on here.
my best friend- her husband- has these sx:
extreme vomiting sometimes diarrhea loss of appetite weight loss (of course) constant pain in GI/abdomen area confusion lethargy probably others, but can't think of right now. he has lost his job for inability to function at any level.
A little background: he has phobias of Drs, hospitals, faints at bloodwork, refuses invasive procedures.
he had a "lump" on his carotid artery a few years ago that he refused biopsy and self treated with herbals, etc. and the lump went away.
he and his wife (my friend) think these current sx are from the "tumor" they thought was cancer and has gone to his brain causing all this now.
he is also diabetic .
These sx came about a month ago and lasted about 3 weeks. then he was 100% fine. thought it was reaction to his new med for diabitese.
now, 2 weeks ago it started again. same way. eased up a little yesterday. but now is like wasting away and his teeth are losing enamel.
my friend told me her man said it feels like when it comes on , that his chest and abdomen are opening and his skin is being ripped off.
I had a similar feeling when I was tx for my tape worm. I told her this yesterday, and then I realized it was just a full moon!
so I am thinking it's a tape worm or something. she said he had stool samples were all negative.
Can they be negative and still have worms?
he just now FINALLY agreed to MRI of head/neck, and is getting an EGD next week.
no one has done any blood work.
this is about it I think. she thinks he is dying for sure. and I fear if these tests show nothing then he gets well again soon and it comes back next month with moon he may really die.
any advice / opinion/ facts???
I am trying to get info to tell them , but they are stubborn (she is a nurse ) and I am hoping to find and give real good info so they can stop being so one tracked about this.
hopefully it isn't brain tumor, but if it isn't they will need a new road to follow.
I will check back here, but PM would be better if you could. thanks so much.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Catgirl
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Poor guy. It sounds like there are several things going on with him right now. I'm sure he has parasites too, but doubt anyone can convince his mainstream medicine trained wife of that.
Unfortunately there are no hard pieces of evidence to give people when it comes to the world of parasites because the field has not been explored in depth by mainstream medicine yet.
That and the lab tests are bad for several reasons. So yes, the tests can be negative and the person still has parasites.
Mainstream medicine thinks that parasites are generally only in those who travel outside the US, so that gives you an idea how little they know.
There are several good Dr. K interviews regarding parasites (search) with really good info, but I doubt his wife would listen to or believe them.
For all of the above reasons I doubt you can do anything other than suggest some books, maybe (Hulda Clark on cancer--it's parasite related). Below is a good list of symptoms of parasites.
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LisaK
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thanks Catgirl.
yeah, he used to eat raw meat. when he found out he had that lump he changed his diet and no longer eats any pork or any raw meat. he and his wife both believe in parasites and all that, but even though they read a lot and research alternative methods, they still have a hard time believing anything ccould be tick disease or something else.
not sure why. I think they are just set on the tumor thing. which may be true. I guess they will know more soon. I just want more ammo in case all tests come back negative.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3558 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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hey Catgirl! yes I'm thinking retesting lyme would be a good idea. I've been reading about that phenomenon you mentioned of testing after some treatment of abx, would be curious if that could happen in my case. I'm seeing an llnd tomorrow, and have another appointment with an llmd in San Diego next month.
I'm trying to cover all corners, and the more I've thought about my case and how lyme works the more I believe it could be a part of the puzzle. I'm feeling better than I have in years so now I have the physical and mental energy to really explore this angle. For many years I was so tired with my health and resigned to my condition that I just didn't want to see any more doctors who would probably say hurtful things or just dismiss me out of hand as cfs or some such thing.
No matter what I'd like to get more info, I really want to stamp out as much as possible whatever chronic infections are the root cause of my issues. Sure I probably can't cure, but I think I can get a solid remission and with careful strategy can keep it at bay.
And I just started reading Cure Unknown by Pamela Weinstraub, absolutely fantastic.
Posts: 30 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Nov 2014
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Speaking from personal experience, I didn't need a microscope to identify the parasites I was seeing as they were macroscopic in appearance. Some of them were EXACTLY in color and size as shown on the lymephotos site. Gael
I do t think anyone in this thread is doubting that parasites exist or could be a major complication to getting better. But confirming parasites can be VERY difficult.
The lymephotos site, I'm not sure half of the photos on there are even parasites. It looks like a real effort to catalog what might be inside us, however, the pictures are amateur. Some of them look like they were just taken by a wide angle lens zoomed in. They are fuzzy and unclear. The photos don't show scale, magnification, if any. OR any confirmation that what we are seeing is a parasite ( stained structures, mouthparts, etc).
That's not to say that some of the photos aren't legit. And we simply don't know the role of parasites and Lyme, and microfillaria.
I've talked to multiple people that say they've seen worms exit after a salt/c treatment. I certainly don't doubt this, but without laboratory evidence or high quality photos, we lack confirmation and are relying on visual confirmation by untrained eyes, which can be unreliable.
I'm afraid medical doctors don't take this seriously to look into, and I wonder if doctors supporting it aren't interested in confirming it in case they misdiagnose you.
I've taken a lot of the herbal parasitic preparations, I haven't seen anything emerge, nor is my health improved. I believe my biggest issue right now is latent viral infections and babesia/bartonella, so I can't say for sure if treating parasites has helped me yet.
I'm certainly going to look into salt/c. I'm just so sick right now, I don't even know where to begin.
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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quote:Originally posted by S13: The plant hairs also puzzled me at first, they look just like nematodes or some kind of parasitic worm under the microscope
Those are great photos! Are you currently treating for parasites? I'm too exhausted to go back and read.
I thought parasite tx would get me ahead, but no suck luck yet. I might be too impatient. My LLMD used the onion analogy, how I have so many layers to address I have to give things time, knock back one and something else comes out.
I just completed herbal parasite treatments. I've had Flagyl and diflucan. Not sure what my next step would be.
-------------------- *Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the earth he does to himself- Chief Seattle, 1854* BullsEye 2005 Dx Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, EBV Posts: 41 | From New England | Registered: May 2015
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glm1111
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Andromeda,
With all due respect, I understand your skepticism because I have a sister who is a medical technologist and had the same view as you do when she looked at the lymephotos site.
If she saw a worm writhing on the sidewalk after being doused with salt, she would want the lab to confirm that it was in fact a worm. I know of folks who sent whole worms to a lab and it came back negative.
Labs are not the best at identifying parasites even when they are looked at by a so called "trained" eye. I grew up playing in the woods and I knew a worm when I saw it.
I understand your frustration and only wish you the best in getting rid of this horrible disease. Try not to get too impatient when going after parasites.
I took 6 mos of strong antiparasitic herbals, but it wasn't until I added the salt/c did they let go. I had a mass exodus for mos continuing the herbs and salt/c.
This combo seems to pack a punch when trying to get these parasites to let go. Persistence is key. Extra cloves also helps kill the eggs. I wish you only the best in your endeavor to get well.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Hi all, I'm a lurker here following buhner's protocols for Lyme and co-infections. It's early days so I can't comment on its effectiveness but I wanted to share a possibly helpful tidbit for those fighting parasites.
I passed an 8" ropeworm/mucoid plaque/alien being quite by accident the other day. I've been on the Buhner Lyme core for more than two months and I've never experienced this before taking a single serapeptase capsule. I took it one afternoon and my neuropathy flared. A couple days later I developed a headache and nausea after dinner (these are unusual for me). Then I met my little friend face to face...at a distance of course. The headache and nausea stuck around well into the night. Burbur didn't touch it but chlorella finally made me feel better.
So, maybe combining the Buhner core, plus CSA, artemisinin, ashwagandha, and red sage root with serapeptase will boot some of these guys out for y'all. I've not tried it again as it isn't a convenient time to be messing with bathroom issues but will try again in about a month and report back if results are replicated.
Hope that helps someone. Posts: 3 | From Colorado | Registered: Apr 2015
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posted
Does anyone know where you can send a potential parasite that came out in stool , to get it tested to see what it is?
Thanks in advance...
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
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lpkayak
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posted
I havent been here in awhile. Im.treating mold toxins. Still eat stuff parasites dont like. I havent seen many prasites in awhile. Tonight it seems a bunch of pin worms left ...vaginally....this is new for me. Anyone else? Gayle?
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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glm1111
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posted
Ip
Pin worms come out at night rectally to lay their eggs and can also enter the vaginal area. Not a surprise that you had them exit from there.
You might want to do some research on killing pin worms and covering the rectum with maybe Vaseline at night so they can't exit to lay eggs.
Sorry you are having this experience, but as the saying goes, better out than in.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
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posted
Bringing this back up for gottadance to review.
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Can someone share Dr. Simon Yu's protocol? Above message says that it is in the PDR. Where is the PDR?
Posts: 41 | From NJ | Registered: Apr 2015
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susank
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posted
I am wondering if I might have just passed a liver fluke. I poked around with my specimen and it was fairly easy to smash and smear/spread out. What is the texture of a passed fluke?
I had eaten something that had small bits of tomato in it the night before.
Anyway - this evening I did a saline enema. TMI - but anyway.....everything was brown - except one object that was definitely red.
It looked exactly like the "specimen" in the center of this link:
It is probably a remnant of a piece of tomato - but how could that be?
FWIW I have been having weekly IV infusions of saline. Last month three IV Vitamin C infusions.
When tomatoes are passed - are they red in the toilet?
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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susank
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Further - remembered that I eat cherries every night.
Question: how does one differentiate between colorful fruits/veggies and flukes/parasites in a toilet? When the foods eaten at least 24 hours before seen.
My specimen/blob of whatever was more the color of a tomato.
Partially digested fruits retain their color - somewhat?
Enemas can cause food to exit before being fully digested? Thereby retaining color?
Perhaps it is wishful thinking on my part that I passed a fluke. (strange). It would be my very first toilet prize!!!!
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I just wanted to share my experience. I started using castor oil as a body moisturizer. Since then, I have become very sick and passing long worms daily sorry....gross. I've never passd things like this before. Researching it further it shows castor oil to kill parasites and tapeworms through suffocation. It's working rather well....to the point I have to take a break. I was using the oil on my legs and going to bed for the night. This is the strongest treatment I have ever done and the die off is terrible. I'm having severe brain fog, nausea, inflammation and pain and fatigue which I didn't have prior to using the oil
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Also, castor oil due to its low molecular weight is one of the best absorbed oils from topical application. I guess I didn't think it would have this strong of a reaction. It's been tough to say the least
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
To clarify, where are you passing these worms using the oil? I assume not the skin.. But how would oil on the skin transfer to gut parasites???
Posts: 133 | From North Shore | Registered: Sep 2015
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posted
Yes passing them in the bathroom. The oil is readily absorbed and has a systemic effect when used topically. I have had to slow down to only once weekly now with the oil because the die off/ detox is incredibly hard. Still passing things daily I was using the oil as an all over moisturizer and leaving it on overnight
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Anyone here try fenbendazole and know if it is effective? Also if so what kind of stuff you passed with it?
Thanks
Posts: 135 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2014
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glm1111
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FYI,
The skin is the largest organ and anything applied topically will be absorbed systemically.
Also Castor oil was used daily by parents and grandparents years ago who knew that parasites could be a problem and was used on a daily basis. The CDC had a report out some months ago stating that approx. 60 million Americans were infected with parasites.
Humans can be infected with parasites as easily as our animals can. We have gotten so far away from these facts that or ancestors knew as a fact.
I read a statement a while ago posted by a Naturopathic Doctor who believed that most people with chronic illneses are infected with parasites. I agree with him. Hulda Clark believes that parasites also cause cancer.
A nightmare for sure. As far as febendazole is concerned or any of the antiparasitic pharma drugs, they each target different parasites. You can look it up.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Interesting re the castor oil. I used to use it for scalp massage and didn't have any reaction to speak of, but castor oil packs on my abdomen resulted in lots of diarrhea.
I took a few months off of parasite tx and some familiar sx crept back in. I felt some relief after a treating for a couple rounds. I didn't see anything until later when I restarted cryptolepis. It felt very antiparasitic to my body this time as it caused me to expel long roundworms. Getting them out again, and thankfully not seeing them en masse like the last time.
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014
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glm1111
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posted
gz,
It's very important to stay with parasite tx since roundworms can lay 200,000 eggs a day. If even one egg is left, the cycle will start all over again. Cloves are reported to kill the eggs as well as salt. Glad you expelled more when you did cryptolepis.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Methylsulfonylmethane has an ameliorating or curing effect on a variety of parasitic systemic microbial infections. Efficacy can be determined by in vitro testing to determine growth inhibition or killing of the specific organism by exposure to methylsulfonylmethane at various concentrations in an otherwise acceptable growth-maintaining in vitro media for the organism. If inhibition or death of the organism occurs when exposed to methylsulfonylmethane at concentrations below about 100 ppm, the methylsulfonylmethane will exhibit in vivo activity against that organism. Examples of parasitic infections susceptible to treatment with methylsulfonylmethane are those commonly associated with infection of the intestinal or urinogenital tract, e.g., Nematodes, Trichomonas vaginalis, Giardia, Enterobius and other intestinal worms, systemic infections by Histoplasma capsulation, Coccidioides, Toxoplasm and other in vitro susceptible organisms.
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Just to clarify....this needs to be ORGANIC SULFUR only availably in crystal or powder form. If you have CBS mutations, I would closely monitor your urine sulphates via strips to make sure you are not too high (800+) and this is a wonderful detox so you may herx so go slow...start 1/2 tsp in water twice a day and increase as tolerated. Ill post the link where to purchase
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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;)Hope everyone is doing well! Way to go Catgirl passing that big sucker. Don't forget about using cloves for eggs. I used to put cloves and cinnamon in my coffee and it helped a lot getting rid of a ton of stuff.
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![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
FINALLY agreed to MRI of head/neck, and is getting an EGD next week. 
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