posted
Thanks 20 Lymeplus You say you get the Salter with both side valves installed Does that mean you have an extra valve installed or does that mean all the Salter 8140-7 mask have two valves installed ?
Please Clarify
Thanks again
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
20PlusLyme, I remove the valve from one of openings so I always have access to fresh air. Would that work for your setup?
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
reminder - glad to hear you are making positive progress, looking forward to further updates.
Hominahomina - the Salter 8140-7 comes with two valves installed, see the picture in the spec sheet I linked below. "valves" sounded complex to me at first, but they are actually just small flexible plastic discs pushed onto a pin over the holes. If they are installed they only allow the air to flow in one direction. You exhale through the ports on the sides of the mask, and if the discs are installed on the outside of both ports it prevents inhaling external air, so only oxygen can be supplied from the reservoir bag. The internal port from the reservoir bag has one of these discs also, but it works in the other direction and only allows the oxygen to come in. This prevents you from exhaling into the reservoir and then "rebreathing" your CO2, thus the non-rebreather name. If you search for the Salter 8140-7 on eBay you can find a medical supply place selling them very reasonably, that is where I bought mine.
Digby - if one or both of the exhale valves are removed then external air will be inhaled and mixed with the O2 so the concentration will be less. It will use less oxygen from the reservoir bag so it will stay more inflated, and like you mentioned you will always have access to fresh air even if the bag deflates. I think removing one of the valves adds the 'safety vent', maybe required for patients who can't physically remove their own mask if there is a problem?
With a nasal cannula or a simple mask some (50%+?) of the oxygen is wasted because the oxygen is flowing while you exhale and it goes out the vents. With a reservoir mask that oxygen is stored up for when you inhale next. The concentration you get is a matter of how good the seal is. A small amount of what you exhale is retained in the mask so I often try to pause for a second after I exhale so the CO2 is pushed out of the mask before I start to inhale again to get the maximum possible oxygen concentration.
I'm new at this though, only a few weeks into diving, others here have much more experience. Is more oxygen better? Looking forward to hearing other opinions and results.
I'm not a doctor so please don't take any of my posts as medical advice. Just another Lyme victim sharing my personal experience.
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posted
Thanks that is helpful It is worth a try
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Phoiph
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posted
Everyone...this discussion is very concerning to me. Please be careful. I repeat, none of the non-rebreather masks you are discussing are designed to be used with the low oxygen flows we are using.
If you are not using the safety vents and fall asleep, pass out, or have a seizure and deflate your bag, what do you think could happen? Masks such as this are designed to be used under supervision.
If you are using the safety vents, you are inhaling room air mixed with O2 just like a Simple Hudson Mask anyway (with some resources reporting the same percentages of 02), so why take the risk?
I understand this has worked fine for Digby (and we are friends that agree to disagree on this one), but everyone breathes at a different rate and volume. Your risks and results will vary.
Neither the Sequal nor AirSep New Life Intensity 10, when taxed by the backpressure of a chamber, will put out the bare minimum 10LPM flow recommended for the non-rebreather mask (many resources suggest minimum 15LPM). The Sequel, when set to 10LPM, may drop to around 8, and the AirSep must be set at 8-8.5 max LPM to keep if from going into an oxygen-on-demand mode to maintain purity.
More is not always better, and I am concerned about everyone's safety here...
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Thanks Phoiph, I'm new at this and certainly don't want to lead people in the wrong direction. You have much more experience and success with treatment.
Posts: 9 | From Northeast USA | Registered: Jun 2018
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posted
20PlusLyme...nice explanation of why it's called a non rebreather mask! Yes, removing one of the valves will allow some air to enter the mask but most of it will come from the bag.
Phoiph, you are correct that we disagree about the mask issue, even though I owe you a huge debt of gratitude for keeping me on task with diving when I was about to quit. You are an angel posing as a former Lyme sufferer! Still, your wrong about the masks...just kidding. Actually, I think it depends on the level of disability, i.e. for someone really sick that may have trouble removing the mask, I agree that a simple hudson mask is best. Some people might even do better by using a cannula at first.
I do maintain that if one of the valves is removed, you shouldn't ever run out of air. I have even put my mask on before hooking it up to the O2 supply and although it takes a little more effort, I can still breath.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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Phoiph
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posted
Here is a study that addresses the safety concerns of the non-rebreather mask and suggests a safer and more effective alternative:
Southmedic OxyMaskTM compared with the Hudson RCI® Non-Rebreather MaskTM: Safety and performance comparison
Thanks to jcarlhelp for bringing this mask to our attention very early on in this thread.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Hey guys! Wanted to get everyones opinion on doing multiple(2x) 1 hour dives per day...? If you have the time and you feel good after the first one, why would it not be a good idea to do another hour later on....? TIA!...
-------------------- Rodge Posts: 9 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2018
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posted
Rodge, it's not a good idea because HBO is a hormetic stressor. In other words, it's your body's response to the stress that creates the healing. Think of it like working out with weights, if you don't have a rest period between workouts, you don't build strength, you just break down the muscle tissue.
I have wondered if 2, 1/2 hour sessions a day would be better but I'm not willing to spend that much time on it to find out.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
50 Dive update Hello All I wanted to give an update I have done 50 dives I dive 3 or 4 times a week 80 minutes I include an herbal lyme formula from time to time
I experience a herx for about an hour or two after each dive and I use chlorella and coffee retention enema which really helps clear out my system and reduces kidney pain 85% My urine is dark the next morning
Normally the herbal formula gave me a considerable herx witout HBOT using the formula and HBOT which is a pretty big hit on lyme does not produce a comparitive herx I say this because it shows HBOT is working
Diving makes my nails and hair grow faster and my skin still tightens on my face after dives I am deep breathing during the dives with a hudson type mask
I am planning on 90 minute dives including a non rebreather mask from now on will let you know how this works
I am using a 27 inch newtowne chamber and an airsep new life intensity 10 concentrator set on 8 The chamber is holding up nicely so far
posted
HH, FWIW, After I had done about 500 dives I started 90 minute dives for a while, thinking that more is better but that was not the case. I got worse and it wasn't a herx, so I went back to 60 minute dives (Thanks again Phoiph for talking me off that cliff!) and my improvement continued.
I've expressed this many times before but I think that due to the hormetic nature of this therapy, adding more time tends to increase the oxidative stress on the body. Perhaps beyond what we can respond to in a healing way.
I have wanted to experiment with 2 half hour dives a day which I suspect may be more healing than a one hour dive but I currently have 3 people using my tank, so the logistics are too complicated.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Oxidative stress is a good thing, in moderation. It’s the primary benefit of HBOT, it’s what kills the bacteria. Too much is a bad thing though, too much can hurt your inner ear, for example.
Posts: 146 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010
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Phoiph
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posted
Digby~
Thanks for the kind words... .
Regarding doing mHBOT for 30 minutes 2x per day instead of a full hour 1x per day...I read that there is a "sweet spot" reached about 45 minutes into a dive where the optimum benefits begin to take place. (I believe it was in Dr. Harch's literature.)
Hominahomina~ There is no rushing this process, but IMO you would progress faster if you were to work up to diving daily for 1 hour only (rather than 80 minutes 3x per week). mHBOT is a cumulative process, and it is best to do consecutive days. (This has been studied and documented by Dr. Paul Harch, who has pioneered mHBOT.)
Like you, many people here have tried to rush the process, only to set themselves back. This is why I encourage everyone to read the entire thread so they can learn from other's experiences, and they won't be tempted to re-invent the wheel.
You can have too much of a good thing, and oxygen can be toxic. As Digby mentioned, if you overdo it, your endogenous antioxidants will not be able to keep up, and your body will experience oxidative damage. This is the exact opposite of what you want to accomplish!
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Thanks for the link Phoiph If you have that link from Dr Harch on optimal dive duration I would like to read it
I post my progress reports to add my experiences to what others are saying so newcomers will have a good picture and can decide how they want to procced
If I am wrong about my protocol I will note it in future reports If my protocol works better for me I will also mention that
So far I notice no adverse reactions with longer dives but I may not know for sure for awhile
quote:Originally posted by Hominahomina: Charles that is an interesting point Do you have any support for the idea that oxidative stress is the principle action of HBOT
Thanks
Many drugs work this way. Artemisin does, for example. The immune system too.
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Phoiph
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posted
You can read his book: "The Oxygen Revolution", by Dr. Paul Harch.
His website is: HBOT.com
This article, which I have posted many times, discusses optimum duration of treatment for neurological conditions:
posted
Phoiph, I finally read that study on the masks and was concerned about the CO2 concentration being higher but then realized that it is only higher at 2 lpm. At the higher level there is no significant difference. Unfortunately, they tested 2 lpm and 15 lpm, not the 8 - 10 lpm that we use for mHBOT.
I want to make sure everyone understands that I wouldn't suggest a non-rebreather mask (NRBM) unless it has 2 vents and one of them has the valve removed. That is the only configuration that is safe because it allows enough air to maintain life :^) in a situation where the O2 is cut off.
I really wish they would have tested the mid range in that study. If the CO2 would be higher with the NRBM at 8 or 10 lpm I would switch to the simple hudson mask (SHM) immediately but I don't see how that is possible because the only real difference is the bag. The SMH has 2 open vents vs. 1 open vent in the NRBM. Now I have tested the NRBM without the O2 concentrator running and I can still breathe albeit slower than with it running.
What really surprised me was that the O2 concentrations seem to be the same with each mask. I really thought the NRBM would deliver a higher volume of O2 because of the bag but that study suggests otherwise.
Thanks for the link to the study. From now on I will go with the less expensive of the 2 masks because there doesn't seem to be any difference in the O2 delivery.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
OK, rather than edit the above post, I will admit that I was mistaken about the O2 delivery. After I reread the study I see that the SMH provides a slightly higher lpm of O2 across the board. I still don't understand why and I know I read the opposite but it was from a manufacturer's site not a well designed study like this one.
Guess I need to get the SMH. And I take back what I said earlier about you (Phoiph) having it wrong (even if I was kidding). Thanks for the education!
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Phoiph
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posted
Thanks, Digby...but I think there is still some confusion here.
This study was comparing a non-rebreather mask (made by Hudson) with an "open mask" by Southmedic (not a Simple Hudson mask). If you look at the photograph closely, you can see the open structure.
I was suggesting the open mask as a safer and more effective alternative to the non-rebreather.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Phoiph... Thanks for the clarification. I guess it's back to the drawing board.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
HH...I don't have the time to answer your questions fully but I will say that although HBOT does kill off some of the spirochetal forms of Bb in the blood, it is pretty useless against the other pleomorphic forms like blebs and cysts that often hide in connective tissue.
That said one of the main benefits of HBOT is that it upregulates your immune system, which is effective against all the forms the bug can take. That also explains why the process is so slow. Hope that helps.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
WHEW!! I just finished reading the threads from beginning to end(5 years worth of info!) and my brain is fried but i have a smile on my face..
First i want to say that i didnt mean to throw everyone off asking about the non-rebreather masks. I think after reading everything Phoiph is right about the SHM. Keep it simple and safe.
I also want to say that Phoiph is truly ANGEL as im sure most of you already know. Complete dedication to help herself and others to this day speaks volumes.
So many of you have made such great strides and have helped many in telling your success stories and answering questions...Digby, Peimomma, Tick/Lymeboy?(And i truly apologize for not naming more names as my brain is a bit tired lol)
Ive been wanting to do mHBOT for close to 20 years and finally got an mHBOT about 2 weeks ago. Ive been sick and getting help for over 22 years. The first 18 years Drs said the extreme anxiety and depression were all in my head and put me on meds. So i struggled for many many years never giving up knowing they were missing something. And then about 4 years ago we found some infections...Mycoplasma, EBV, etc etc....but i never bombarded my system with antibiotics for more the 3-4 weeks a few times. I tested false-positive in the Western Blot and just got my DNA Connexions test back and is was Negative across the board. But i talked to a guy there who said just because i tested negative doesnt mean i dont have it. I like to just say that my body is in a state of non-homeostasis and its healing..
Im treating with a CIRS Dr. now in Tucson for Mold, MARcons etc....my body likes the dry climate better. It calms my central nervous system is think..? Im soo glad to have stumbled upon this thread for soo many reasons. One, so i could set my 02 concentrator @8.5 and not blow it out lol, two, use the right mask and keep it simple and safe and steady. And most importantly being able to meet all of you. So many stories of hope and progress and i will be one of them, i have no doubt. Yes i am a Taurus and i am stubborn lol. I have been going slow and steady(10 dives) and know when to back up a bit if need be thx to Phoiph because of her non stop effort to sound like a broken record has sunk deep in my brain. 1x a day for 60 mins for at least 20 months+
I just have a few questions, one for Digby who has recently talked about this and anyone else who knows a lot of the subject-HORMONES-I had mine tested through LabCorp and everything came back "normal" but i know they are off and that there is better testing. I know being able to get these in better shape will make a huge difference. I still have lots of anxiety, depression, brain fog, CFS, and the list goes on but those being the most prevalent. What is the best test and how expensive is it? Also im living in a mold free space finally which has helped tremendously. Im taking charcoal at low doses to pull out the mold, toxins, etc that has been in my system for years. I know that mHBOT promotes better detoxification and kills and causes some herxing so Phoiph was is your current thought on taking some sort of binders while doing the chamber maybe lessening the herxs? I'll quit rambling now but just wanted everyone to know i am truly grateful to how found this group as im sure all of you are too..
posted
Rodge What kind of setup did you get ? Thanks
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kgg
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posted
Reminder, I was hoping that mHBO would get rid of the ringing in my ears (tinnitus). It did not. Although I have read about it helping others.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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Phoiph
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Digby: Phoiph... Thanks for the clarification. I guess it's back to the drawing board.
Digby~
Have you tried the Southmedic OxyMask?
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Phoiph
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posted
Rodge~
Thank you very much for the kind words, and most of all, thank you for reading the entire thread.
I truly wish everyone would put out that effort before they begin mHBOT, as it is so important to have the background information and learn through others' experiences.
To answer your question about binders...although I was very toxic, I did not use them, as I was too sensitive to anything I ingested.
IMO if you go slowly and carefully enough with mHBOT, your diet is clean, you move lymph through yoga and gentle exercise, and you're not trying to detox using other methods or take a lot of drugs/supplements, you really shouldn't need them.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Rodge, My Integrative Medical Doc specializes in Bio Identical Hormone Therapy (BIHT) and he uses Lab Corp for the labs.
As Charles12 said, "normal" isn't very useful information. You need someone who knows BIHT to order the right tests and determine the best levels for you.
I have worked with a client that was having bad herxes each time he used the chamber. He was successful in getting over the herxes and tolerating the chamber by doing coffee enemas. That suggests that appropriate detox procedures may well be important for some people.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Rodge I use coffee retention enemas and they help significantly with detox I use green unroasted robusta beans from Dean's Bean's I roast and grind them and use tablespoon of ground up beans heated up the day of the dive. I just put the jar with ground up beans and water in the hot sun for a few hours and shake the bottle frequently it brews up nice
I also use chlorella take 6 or 7 tabs the morning of the dive and vitamin c too
Posts: 261 | From California | Registered: Sep 2017
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posted
Reminder - I had consistent loud tinnitus before starting mHBOT. I'm two months into daily diving and the tinnitus seems less frequent and not as loud lately.
Wish I was showing general body improvements like you are, but I'm hoping and trying to stick with it.
Posts: 9 | From Northeast USA | Registered: Jun 2018
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Phoiph
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Digby: Phoiph... Not yet!
Digby~
The first time I bought a Southmedic OxyMask several years ago, I wasn't able to off-gas it, and it continued to have a very strong vinyl-y odor. Although I found it very comfortable, I only used it a couple of times for this reason.
I recently bought another OxyMask, and found that this time, it off-gassed fairly quickly. (I did leave it in the rain overnight by accident...maybe this helped!)
Anyway, I do like it now, and according to the study I posted earlier, it is potentially more effective than the Simple Hudson Mask or the non-rebreather (and safer).
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Phoiph
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20PlusLyme~
Please stick with it...at 2 months you are only at the beginning of the process!
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Phoiph...Do you have a link to the mew mask?
I always out-gas my masks for at least week. I just blow up the bag and leave it sitting out. I really don't like the smell at first.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Phoiph - thanks for the encouragement, I'm still at it daily.
Digby - great idea leaving the masks out for a week+. I think I will try blowing a little oxygen through the tubing each day to give it more fresh air exposure.
I am very sensitive to off-gassing from new masks, cars, beds, etc. and was concerned about what my Newtowne chamber would smell like when it arrived. I was amazed that it had almost no odor. I still aired it out overnight before my first dive, but didn't have any problems.
Posts: 9 | From Northeast USA | Registered: Jun 2018
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posted
HH, I think Phoiph was referring to the study she posted which suggested that it might deliver more O2 than the other masks.
Posts: 564 | From NW Arkansas | Registered: May 2003
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I think the OxyMask is more comfortable, but I feel no discernable difference otherwise (nor would I expect to).
Because I became well using a Simple Hudson Mask, I'm not overly concerned with a need for more 02. That said, for those who are hell-bent on "more is better", I would rather see them use the open OxyMask, as it is a much safer choice for our purposes than the non-rebreather (and more effective according to the study).
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