Topic: Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it
NanaDubo
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posted
djf - Dr. W uses the same machine that tests for different strength of lyme and how heavy a load one has, to determine that there are no strengths still testing positive.
I'm not sure who you are referring to that still has symptoms. In my case, I was ill for 8 years. Wouldn't you think that every single system and organ was affected by that? Lyme can be gone and things still need to heal. Big difference between healing and still having lyme.
If there is collateral damage or detoxing to do, that does not mean one is symptomatic of lyme.
Example, a few weeks after I returned my jaw really started hurting. I went to the dentist and had an old and poorly done root canal tooth extracted.
The dentist commented that he couldn't believe that this tooth hadn't been bothering me for years. It might have been but my body was dealing with the ravages of lyme and couldn't take on one more thing.
Lyme goes, tooth can speak up.
Things shift quite dramatically and one no longer thinks that a stubbed toe or anything little thing that comes up is related to lyme.
I have no symptoms now. I feel as I did before I ever got lyme 8 years ago - a little older maybe
This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic. Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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djf2005
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thanks for the info.
i still do not understand how it works only that it is the process which the dr uses...
i understand there is a difference between active lyme and giving the body time to heal..
how sick were you before you left, what symptoms did you have, and what was your level of functionality?
where does all that stand now and how long has it been since you were treated?
what are you taking now as far as lyme treatments? (ie supps, abx, herbs, ect)
will you continue to be treated w the bionic?
thanks
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Nanadubo said--This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic." Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.
Why would DR W treat someone with the Lyme protocol if they did not have lyme?? Dr W does test you for lyme when you get there, so I am assuming lyme showed up for this patient and than was treated with the lyme protocol by DR W with the Bionic880. So to say it was the wrong diagnosis would be incorrect. I don't think Dr W would treat someone with the lyme protocol with the bionic if in fact the person didn't show up positive for lyme... at least I would hope not. If this person was energetically tested for Lyme, then that is why this person must have proceeded to be treated.
so maybe it is incorrect to say that they DIDN'T have lyme. Maybe that this particular treatment just did not work for this person. It's ok to say that a treatment that has been successful for some was not for 1 or more. This is true with many treatments including the use of abx.
Either way, I am still highly interested in this treatment. I wish there was a way of knowing what makes it successful for some and not for others...
I am VERY happy that you are feeling like you did BEFORE getting lyme.. That is exciting and I only hope you stay as good or better than you feel now.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Shandy, I know Nanadubo will clarify! How I read what Nana wrote, is the person thought they had lyme as their issue made an appointment with Dr. W. and went to have treatment. Instead upon examination the person didn't have lyme and is still symptomatic. Dr. W. couldn't help this person and I'm guessing Dr. W. refered the person what next to do.
One way to make sure you have lyme to be gotten rid of, is to get a nosode with dead lyme in it and energetically test with someone in the states. Especially If you are not sure!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
lymie_in_md is RIGHT!
Shandy ! You really need to verify by the muscle test that you have lyme.I already used my llmd to confirm that for my son and my daughter even though I had a BIOFEEDBACK and IGENEX test done.
And that confirmed it for me in 3ways that WE DO HAVE LYME.We also had BULLS eye rashes a few years ago that nobody treated and told us what they were .Were send home with some cortisone cream and that was it.The nightmare than begin as we were sick and were through hell since than.
So we KNOW FOR SURE THAT WE HAVE LYME and company!!
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posted
I am not talking about me... I am talking about the woman/man who went to germany, got treated and is STILL symptomatic.
It is said it could have been from the wrong diagnosis... This cannot be if you are energetically tested before treatment by DR W.. It was obvious by Nana's post that this person was treated, because of the statement " I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic"
Dr W wouldn't have treated this person if they did NOT energetically test for lyme... why would he??? That would be a waste of time and money.
SO... all I am saying is that it's ok that it may not be EVERYONE's answer... because every treatment is like this.
I am not trying to be confrontational at all... I am trying to learn about this just like everyone else... you have to take the bad with the good sometimes!
I just wish there was a way to determine if it would work for myself or not.... But like most treatments we don't have it that easy.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Shandy -- I'll start off and say, you want to be sure this is a cure or as sure as you can be. You are looking at this as if you only have one bullet in the gun and it has to hit the target. We all understand the problem.
Getting this out of the way, you are not confrontational at all in my opinion, you just want to be absolutely sure of any decision you make. And there isn't a single person on this board who isn't rooting for you to get well. Me included!
A lot of information is percolating showing promise of this new LED or infrared light in removing lyme from our bodies. Personally, I believe it!
So it is simple : you can't get well with Dr. W. if you have lyme & Co. as your main problem. Again, you get well far more quickly if lyme is the main issue. If the main issue is mercury poisoning, candida, kidneys, endocrine system, liver, intestines, parasites, mold, EMF, dental (tmj, root canals, metals in the mouth, amalgams) on and on ... then those need to be addressed even if you get rid of lyme. Mercury in some can take months to years to remove.
Shandy you can test for many of these things if you get a biotensor IMHO. I believe it is the best thing I've purchased to get well. I wish I knew about it two years ago. I bet GiGi wished she knew about it years before now that she knows the power of it.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
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Lyme is Lyme. It and the co-infections are successfully treated (95%) with The Bionic880 Woitzel protocol, including the minor structural work he does.
If, however, you have other problems that were either present before you got infected with Lyme or developed into a bigger problem because of immune dysfunction, these problems will not all disappear with five Bionic/Woitzel treatments. They need to be attended afterward, if that is the case.
Dr. W. tests to make the diagnosis of Lyme. If Lyme is a factor, even though you may have other problems, he treats the Lyme.
I don't think Nano meant to say "misdiagnosis", she meant that due to other causes, the person was still symptomatic. A single one of all the other neurotoxins can cause very similar symptoms. Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia.
There are many factors that can contribute to the same symptoms. If getting rid of proven Lyme does not eliminate all symptoms, or none, or only one, look elsewhere. Treat, treat, all intruders or offenders. There are usually many. I will admit, we would rather not know about them, and try to find some culprit which we think wwe can more easily deal with. This I think is the wrong way to go.
Lyme Disease is a disease brought about by many different factors besides simply a tick bite or person to person infection, or via the dog or the kitty. All these possiblities have to be explored and dealt with, especially if the Bionic880/Woitzel protocol does not succeed.
Heavy metals, fungi/mold, dental infections, bad wisdom teeth sites (still in the mouth or removed long ago), are some of the major ones. Structural problems are a problem. If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. Tsome of these usually provide the terrain for the Lyme and Co. to find a place to live. These are all closely linked with any infection. So -- after Bionic treatment, these may have to be addressed.
Bob said it well, and I will add that the Bionic photons may fix your Lyme, but it will not straighten out a kinked spine or infected root canal. You might have to lend an extra hand there.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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bejoy
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posted
I understand from some of Dr. Woitzel's patients that he is interested in treating with nosodes of coinfections, but does not currently have them.
Why treat with lyme nosodes if the light handles all infections on it's own without help? Additional nosodes might be supportive. I'd let the doctor decide on an individual basis.
It might be interesting for someone to bring a set with them to have him check them out.
I'd be willing to help someone going to Germany access them if you have the interest. I am interested in Woitzel's opinion.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Brussels
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I too first thought all my problems were reduced to borrelia only. Kill the borrelia, and get well again. A tick bite made me down to almost zero energy and dozens of symptoms in very little time, that is why I put all the guilt on borrelia.
After fighting lyme since 2005, I'm now certainly convinced lyme is just part of the puzzle, like Gigi, Bob and others keep saying.
I see around me people getting bitten by ticks constantly, living without any repellents, kids, small kids, old people, they DON'T FALL SICK. It's not uncommon to reach 90 years here (countryside in Switzerland), many do.
Many cultivate their own organic veggies, drink unpasteurized milk from their neighboring farms, don't get vaccinations until they are older, they are outside most of the time, in contact with rain and sunlight almost every day.
I fell sick after my first tick bite. Second tick bite again, very sick very fast, despite herbs and abx. So did my daughter. There must be something else than mere borrelia causing us to collapse so fast.
I'm still pretty sure if I get again bitten, I'll fall sick again as I did last year. Guys that were treated with the Bionic just for borrelia too.
Dr. W. said that, the Bionic treatment won't prevent you from falling sick again if a tick bites you again.
That's why one's gotta keep treating, cleaning the body, and letting time heal what has been messed up after years of borrelia. Years of arthritis, losing loads of collagenous tissue (borrelia does ravage to collagen), these will not be reconstructed by magic in joints and cartilage. It takes time.
If your heart got inflamation for years, it won't just start working well in a day and you'll be able to run a marathon in a week. Maybe permanent damage was already done, who knows?
What messed with my immune system was not borrelia only. It was messed before the first bite. If I were well, I would be like my neighbors, getting constantly bitten and not falling sick, and not worrying about ticks.
I do energetic tests with ticks (and so does the right hand of dr. K. here in Germany), we can 'see' what each tick has energetically. so glad other people are doing that, before I felt like no one trusted what I said because I was a loner here.
Almost 100% of the ticks I found in my area have borrelia. Almost all have bart. The rest varies. It took me time to find a tick without any pathogens (at least, for the pathogens I can test). I thought they didn't exist. They are rare, very rare. Very few don't have borrelia, but can have other pathogens.
My neighbors have an average of 3-5 tick bites a year for each family member. They are being infected with borrelia, I'm pretty sure, much before I moved here.
It's wonderful not to have active borrelia here and then. I have truly experienced that quite for a few times (in between relapses!). No treatment is required, you feel good.
But then I usually get fungal infections active again. And then the fight continues, with the same pattern as lyme: kill, herx, fatigue, improve slowly, shift herbs and homeopathics constantly, magnesium, zinc, Vit E and so on.
To get rid of fungi, I need to get rid of heavy metals. Chelation goes on. Liver, intestines and kidneys get so stressed no one can live a normal life while detoxing these heavy metals, despite innumerous cleansers taken 6-12 times a day (at least in my case). The Photon wave did it softer though, fortunately.
Only recently, I feel less afected by EMRs. Before, they made me feel very sick too. It IS slow.
I feel candida-fungi infections very close to lyme. They can affect almost all parts of your body, from GI, liver, kidneys, heart, skin, brain, uterus, teeth, eyesight. You guys taking loads of abx have to fight candida for sure too.
Someone just told me, fibroids in uterus could be caused by yeast-fungi. I have fibroids. The fight goes on. Next step, finding a remedy for it and test if it will help my fibroids.
Borrelia is certainly NOT my main problem at the moment.
So what? My treatment looks pretty much like a comprehensive lyme treatment. I wonder if dr. W. treats fungi and candida infections too, does anyone know it?
I'm so glad there are others here with their borrelia out (or dormant) and still looking for answers. And very glad Gigi started doing energetic tests too!
Anyowe coming to dr. W. in January?
Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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NanaDubo
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djf - As I said, I was sick for eight years and so had about every symptom you can imagine at one time or another. 9 months prior to going to Germany I was bedridden for 3 months. I got better but had great difficulty driving myself places and had very little energy.
By the time I went to Germany in September I considered myself 80% functional. My family would disagree with that and they might be right as they were probably able to see more clearly how I was functioning.
I am taking very few supplements, some homeopathic remedies for organ support during detox and no antibiotics.
I will continue to treat with the Bionic once a month for a while to make sure lyme remains gone and that I continue to test negative for it. As I become better at using it I will most likely use it for other things.
Shandy - Dr. W tests everyone who goes there to make sure that they actually do have lyme. I may have not been clear in my earlier post. He states in his literature that if a person takes antibiotics during the treatment, the treatment can fail. Also, if there has been a misdiagnosis before going there.
He would not treat someone for lyme if they do not have it. He tests for this before anything is done. Concerning the person who posted earlier in the summer who was still symptomatic - my understanding was that the person did have lyme which was cleared but has other issues remaining.
The post was deleted and I do not know what the person has.
I am not saying that there was someone who went there that did not have lyme but was still treated for it. Have I made that clear?
Sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I think what I read in his literature means it is possible someone could go there thinking they have lyme but do not. This would be "wrong diagnosis" BEFORE going there. Again, he would not treat you for lyme if you don't have it.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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oxygenbabe
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Selma (Brussels) I will be eager to hear about your experience with Dr. W. You seem to live a healthy lifestyle. Do you think you and your daughter have a genetic vulnerability, or when you were growing up you did not lead as healthy a lifestyle as your neighbors? Also, perhaps if bit since children they developed some type of immunity, who knows.
nana--why would he send someone home and not treat? Seems like he treats more than lyme. Why couldn't he treat her/him for whatever they did have?
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Thanks Nana for clarifying! I understand now
Bob-- you are absolutely right.. I am looking for answers eevryday.. I wish I could get muscle tested by someone to be sure of what I am dealing with... It proves hard when I can barely leave the house. Thanks for rooting for me!!
My reasoning for wanting to go to DR K was because I thought he could help me indentify what was going on in my body by ART testing, and then hopefully be able to help me strengthen my body... so that maybe I could get the bionic treatment. I figured he would be the best to go to for figuring out what was going on and trying to fix all these imabalances in my body.
At this point my daily job is taking pill after pill, antibiotics that are not helping, supplements, vitamins... I just don't know anymore.
The question is.... how do you know what to treat when you don't really know whats going on inside... even with a + test for lyme. How do you figure out HOW to make yourself well?
99.9% of my fight is for my children, 1% for myself. ( I mean it would be nice to feel well after all)
Thanks!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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NanaDubo
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oxygenbabe - the old post that was deleted says (to the best of my recollection) that the person had lyme,was treated for lyme and at the end of treatment was lyme free. I do not know what else the person has or had.
Since I was only there to be treated for lyme and friends I did not ask him what other things he treats. He did some great chiropractic adjustments on me though and was able to tell me that the mixed metals in my mouth are a big problem. Since he is not a dentist.... do you see what I am saying?
I don't think we can figure out what a person had, what treatments they received and how they are doing now if they are not communicating that to us. It just leads to speculation and misinformation.
There are a number of people who have been there and returned, a group there now and more people on their way. It would probably be more productive to ask those who are still posting or read peoples blogs to better understand.
If you are asking a theoretical question like - what if someone showed up there sick but didn't have lyme disease, would he treat them? He is a good doctor and just as he sent me to someone about my appendix, I'm sure he would see this person got help. Other than that, I cannot answer.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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based on mojoys post ...Dr W found out that his Mother does not have lyme even though he though she did.
Also ..I know that I have candida ( cronic -fungys ) based on the test done 13 years ago -thanks to Metal bridges and mercury in my mouth for DECADES.My load on both of them was high as high as lyme when I was tested.
FYI yesterday I took 5 candida force based on biotensor( my load is very high- broke my first biotensor just asking on yeast fungus question).
I have done all that Olive leaf exstract , GSE , oil of eregano etc...all of them .
I was off any lyme killers yesterday.2 hrs later I had blurry vision , foggy brain and got so confused as when I had active lyme felt like I was herxing for lyme.
But I took candida KILLERS.The reaction was the same .I was writing some checks and got so confused and I could not even write down the numbers and messed up 3 checks and avoided them .
I have felt same on detoxing metals from my brain so killing the parasites on parasites protocoll ( very strong ones) .
I herxed my brains out as I used to on lyme.So killing candida and fungus and detoxing metals is as important as addressing lyme.
Muscle testing showed in my case that LYME metals and FUNGUS/CANDIDA were major.So did BIOFEED back -showed all these goes together and candida was top 5 and cronic fungus above LYME disease findings.( tick borne illnes -lyme disease came out right after CRONIC FUNGUS) in my QXCI test.
I know that metals and candida lowered my immune system to make LYME to come out or get infected from ticks when other people are walking aroung sorrounded from them and do not get sick as I am .
As my bodies level of mercury /metals and fungus lowers so does LYME and coinfections...slowly .I treat them all at the same time.
WHEN I did the major killing 2 years ago without addresing the metals my left kidney shut down from mercury released ( bugs getting killed released it ) I was following a VERY STRONG PROTOCOLL for cancer patient killing parasites without knowing what I was killing ( had no clue about lyme).
They definitly hold into each other.IT IS NOT JUST LYME!!!That is what I found from my eksperience .I am just sharing it.Sorry I am not trying to highjack the thread but mayeb can help somebody else with my eksperience.
I now follow the biotensor /muscle testing metod only .I give my body whatever killers /cleanser/vitamins that need at the certain time and it changes daily .THAT IS THE ONLY metod that I BEILIVE IN on my road to recovery!!!
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NanaDubo
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Momfromtexas -
I don't recall anything about the biophotons making you sicker if you are on antibiotics, just that it won't work. Someone who knows more will come along. I know Dr. W does not use antibiotics because they are not good for your colon.
Antibiotics and killing herbs are be stopped. Any particular medications other than that, I would ask him.
I tried to detox first but with all the things I had, detoxing was not very successful until the lyme got dealt with. If you can detox first I'm sure that's a good thing.
I was off antibiotics for 5 weeks before I went to Germany. I have heard others say they have stopped a week or two before going.
I don't agree that you have to be nearly recovered - don't know who wrote that. There were people there at the same time I was who were extremely ill.
If you search gigi's threads you will find a lot of information.
Hope that helps.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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Tracy9
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Gigi said:
"Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia."
I think this is a HUGELY important point. My LLD has always said there is NO WAY to tell which symptom is from which infection, because they all overlap like one big Venn diagram.
Frustrating yet comforting, because it takes up sooooo much energy to try and constantly figure that one out!!!
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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GiGi
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The best solution I have found to determine what symptom is causing what is using the tensor and my judgement. If my husband would turn up with a yellow complexion, I would immediately reach for all organ support remedies or medicines.
If he has typical symptoms anywhere, I test all the nosodes for the different infections and/or toxins.
If I find that his system is blocked (there a simple tensor test for it), so that his Autonomic Nervous System cannot give the true answer, I use my intuition and find the test vials that cause a change and opens his system. Then I have at least one culprit definitely, and I can go on with the appropriate treatment with the Bionic. Always testing the frequency and other settings for the Bionic with the Biotensor before proceedin.
In the absence of a doctor or practitioner who can energetically test you and - most important -- is healthy enough to do it well, I can answer all my questions now with the Biotensor. We have saved a lot more by not having to go to a doctor or practitioner, because of this.
A good reliable, scientifically well manufactured tensor is best. We purchased the one Dr. W. uses. I had it in my hand once while we were at his office and knew instantly that all others I have tried do not come close to it. So make a wise decision. You will -- if you take good care of it -- use a tensor for many years. So don't waste your money on something that gives you only half the answers. You will save a lot by using it, because you will probably find that a goodly number of the supplements you are taking is not wanted by your body. And therefore you are avoiding some of the setbacks by the incorrect medicines, remedies, supplements, etc.
It takes time to learn using the tensor. It's best to get a good book. I just ordered the English version of the one www.bioplasma.com published in German. I am most anxious to learn more to refine my testing, so that I do not have to have ART, at least not as frequently as we used to. My test results so far agree with ART results. Tensoring takes discipline. Wishful thinking has to be avoided to get true results. And testing is only for the present moment - not for tomorrow or later.
It is important to test yourself first before testing someone else. If your own system is blocked, you cannot test anyone else. There is an order to this process, but it is easily learned.
The reason I could never get excited about any tensor before was that I never used a good one. I had been given some several times that are still somewhere in some drawer. They did not work for me. Then I got the Biotensor, the genuine one - not a copy.
If I am not mistaken, Nano had the tensor she bought tested by Dr. W. and he told her it was not sufficient. Not sure whether it was Nano or not or what kind of tensor she showed him. So pardon.
Take care.
No, I am not getting paid for making this statement!!!!!!!!!! I know I am going to get shot down again for what I said above, but so be it.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tracy9
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Gigi said:
"If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. "
Now this one really confuses me. How can one possibly change their EMF field, really? We are all going to be going home to nearby cell towers, our computers and TVs, so this seems impossible.
Why would anyone go to Germany if this were true? So much EMF exposure is out of our control.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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NanaDubo
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Tracy9 - a certain amount of it is in our control. I am getting my wireless internet connection replaced with a hard wire. Until then, I only have it turned on when I'm actually using the computer.
I rarely use a cell phone and do not own an ipod.
There are devices you can buy to put on your computer, telephone, television and even electrical outlets to help with the EMFs. I'm not exactly sure how they work.
I have the information somewhere and will dig it up. Never mind, I just found it.
computer chip, tv chip, cordless phone and holder chips, outlet neutralizer and room neutralizer.
posted
mOjoey said something that interested me today. He said Dr. W treated for lyme and if we had do-infections like babesia and bartonella the American doctors can treat it.
That sounds a little different from Gigi saying that the co-infections go when the lyme goes. Anyone have clarification?
The person who still has the symptoms was a boy whom Dr. W said was lyme free, but was around too much EMF. That is confusing, too, to be declared lyme free and still have all symptoms. I know the body is complex. I wonder whether the German LTT blood test would have confirmed the lyme free diagnosis.
Again, I think the protocol holds promise and I will keep rooting that those who get treated have lasting results.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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lymie_in_md
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hiker53 -- I believe he was talking about clients he'd been treating in Germany when he started talking GiGi and how coinfections worked there. I'm guessing he is learning the American strains are a bit different then what he is used to. That is my understanding of the dialogue thus far. Americans are more difficult to treat then Europeans. And he is learning too. He may also learn how he might tweak his protocol over time to our benefit. In the mean time, getting rid of lyme is a great start.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
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Do you think the people manufacturing the Borrelia nosode take it apart into co-infections, etc. The infection usually comes in one tick bite from one tick. That is what is used in the treatment. He applies ten different potencies of the Borrelia burgdorferi nosodes plus the original of a sterilized Borr. afzelli and the original of a Borrelia burg. during all of the treatments.
I have never heard him say that the American doctors should do the rest of the treatment. He may have been referring to the four-months checkups that he does with all the Europeans, or at least the Germans that come to see him.
There is a lot of misunderstanding due to language differences and people should make every effort not to repeat or spread around incorrect information. He told me that the photons do the job re co-infections. My husband had literally all, and I cannot find a single one. I am testing him constantly. As of now, we are down to metals, fungi and mold. Waiting to see what comes next. None of that can be done in three weeks and that is probably what he may have been referring to when he suggested continued treatment at home. It would takes many weeks to stay there and that is not his forte. He can test for it, but the time is not available, nor are the "bodies" ready to do it all at once.
Take care.
He is beginning to be concerned, even while we were there, that the infections from here seem to be stronger. I know from my experience over the years with patients of Dr. K., that the exposure to EMF is much more severe here and started much earlier and long before the Europeans ever had a computer or a cell phone, or even a microwave. We have not nearly the same insulation in our homes here (wiring) as they have in Germany (not sure about the rest of Europe. Our wiring would never pass inspection overthere. I have been hearing this from Dr. K. for many years - it has always created a problem. That is why he is so adamant that we pull the fuses into the sleeping quarters at night - the place where we stay the most hours and not moving around. I have always done that and still do it when I think of it.
I think the amalgams were stopped quite a while overthere, even outlawed, compared to here.
We have much more chemical exposure than they do -
We practically live in the automobile while they still have their annual vacations in the country walking to the stores -- \
The treatment continues and it is noticed that starting the lowest/strongest potencies clear first and slowly move up to the highest potency D200 or K1000. When the highes (most diluted) potency clears, that finishes the treatment.
The patient is then asked to return on a monthly basis to make certain he/she/it stays clear and no infection is evident. He continues that for about four months, regularly testing the patient.
He then recommends further that all patients be tested once a year -- not only for the earlier infection, but as a signal for any infection that can happen at any time after the treatment is finished.
I talked with one lady in Germany, when I "interviewed" her for almost an hour, she was fine many months after the treatment. But had suffered another tickbite a year later and went for another treatment. She then did not bother to go that far away from her home to see Dr. W., but that he referred her to someone near her home to do the treatment.
As I have posted many times, there are many practitioners that own the Bionic and use it for treatment of hundreds of problems, not only Lyme.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I am not disagreeing with Gigi and Dr. W. I am hoping the lyme treatment works. Just pointing out what m0joey said on his blog today that seemed different from what I had heard before.
If this treatment works and holds I am over there!
I do think that we have too much technology in our world and that is hurting us physically. I know after working in a classroom all day with 14 computers that are programmed to be on all day with a large "SMART Board" that I can barely walk by the end of the day and standing by the SMART board makes me feel ill. These have replaced blackboards and overhead projectors, so there isn't much choice in how I teach.
Anyway, blessings and good health to all of you and may Dr. W be blessed with a healing hand!
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Just remembered as I was browsing through other thread titles:
Dr. Woitzel told me recently that they have done comparatives - the CD57 is moving up with the Bionic treatment.
I have never done one - but I guess that this is nice to know for some of you. When I do get a chance to get a word with him, I could ask a hundred questions. But I do respect his time.
Take care.
P.S. My last post above this one is a disaster. It is garbled and all backward. But I do not have time --- so please excuse - there is a life to live beyond Lymenet!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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I had an interesting night. I didn't react the first night after treatment but yesterday I definitely felt a bit strange (almost delirious) and at night I sweated profusely throughout the night. I had to change into 4 different shirts. I never had a prolonged sweat like that, even when the babesia herxing was at its worst.
However, I don't feel ill. This is similar to what others have said. After their "reactions" --since it's not exactly a herx-- they feel fine.
Hiker -- you didnt misinterpret what I said. Dr. W did say that if the symptoms are gone, then the co-infections aren't a problem, but if the symptoms are still there whilst the lyme is gone, then he will see what the problem is and the co-infections can be treated by american doctors. I made absolute sure of this when I was asking about co-infects, and I highly doubt this part was lost in translation.
I heard Nanadubo's tooth infection cleared in 2 days when she went home after the bionic treatment. I have a few bad EBV-related sores near the roof of my mouth from the torturous first few days of getting here, and it's causing really bad ear pain. I really want more photon treatments now to get that cleared up!!!
Cheers, joey
[ 25. October 2008, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
How far out is he booking now? I can't believe I'm going to say this but I am now thinking of going with a New England group, including Shandy, perhaps Erin, and want to run it by Sara, David, and Melissa as well.
We all want to wait and see how our beloved guinea friends do.....so we aren't thinking of going until spring or summer maybe....but wondering if we think we might want to do so, when should we call????
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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I think it's certainly best to come with a group of people. I was talking to Paul last night and he's goin a little cuckoo in the forest. I'm on day 3 so we'll see how long it takes to go full jack nicholson.
Im gonna be ruffling some feathers here, but here are some things to consider before coming all the way here if money isn't easy to come by.
Are you positive you have lyme? Absolutely 100% positive? If so, you do not need the bicom to test for it. The bicom is a 20G machine that some alt docs may own -- or a similar electrodermal test-- back in the states.
On the other hand, my mom tested positive for lyme per asyra, but negative with bicom. Maybe the bicom is far more accurate than anything we have over there? Either way one should consider if a superior diagnostic test is something worth paying the premium of traveling over for.
I think most of Dr. W's help comes in the way of what happens if your lyme is gone and your symptoms are still full blown. With another woman whom is severely ill, she is now lyme-free but symptomatic, so dr. w hooked her up from head to toe with this machine that had frequencies for a bunch of other infections, and she tested to have her biggest problem be a form of strep throughout her entire body.
So you see, the bionic treatment and infusions in and of themselves are IMHO not worth the travel if anyone is still wondering. Like gigi said, even her very young granddaughter could use the bionic. All they do is tape the live vials--which arent in the states--with the different potencies of borrelia nosodes to your solar plexus and you do the test. Ozone is helpful for neuro lyme, and that may be difficult to get in the states.
He is clearly trying to learn as he goes with american patients. We are his guinea pigs, and I believe in time he will gain a far better understanding of how we differ from euro patients. The benefit of seeing him in person seems to be finding out what's wrong whether it's lyme and besides lyme. Some of us that have access to ART Testers with a score of nosodes can find this out at home. It may be a mild wild goose chase, but its doable.
I just worry about a bunch of patients taking out loans to afford this treatment. Obviously it is much safer to have Dr W monitor you during the treatment, but besides Nana taking out her appendix--in which case the origin of pain and solution are clear--i haven't heard of any cases of major mishaps. Side effects yes, visits to the ER no.
In no way am I saying I think I wasted money by flying over. I've yet to have my 2nd treatment!! I wrote about the many benefits of being here in my blog, and I really think the conditions make for the ideal healing environment. Im just being a devil's advocate for people that are hellbent on this being a magic bullet when said bullet may be available under a U.S. alt doc's care soon or for those willing to bite the bullet, available with a group like the one bob is trying to set up. Many of the patients that have come think it was worth every single penny and the mom and daughter I met on thursday even plan on coming back in january to see Dr. W. It just becomes much harder to rationalize when your life savings are gone and you still feel ill, even if the hardest part--the lyme--is over.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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I am so happy you are posting here and keeping us informed. I am reading your blog daily too.
In case I missed this, do you know if after your three week treatment there, do you have to go back four weeks later? I thought I recalled that was part of Dr. W's protocol. Kinda like a re-check visit?????
Hope you are feeling well and can't wait until you have had all your treatments to see how you make out.
The weather has been gorgeous here in sunny California, but sure would love to see the lush green countryside of Germany. Hope you are enjoying the sites the best you can.
We are all thinking of you!
Elizabeth
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
He is tweaking his protocol for us.
I am feeling great after my fourth treatment. I felt good and had energy all day yesterday after the photons. Today I woke up about an hour earlier than normal and feel good.
I can't clarify Joey's statement. Dr. W said to us that you have to clear the Lyme, then worry about the rest ... in regards to viruses, etc. He didn't test us for anything else because we had to clear the Lyme first.
He does not have the American nosodes for co's. I plan on buying some when I get back. I also need to use it with the mold I was exposed to .... I will have to ask him the best way to do that.
This is clearly working for me. No doubt about it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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from what i understand, he likes his german patients to go back after 4 weeks to get check if the lyme is still gone. I plan on going with the biotensor + checking with my chiro muscle-tester.
I wanted to add to my previous post: What really makes the decision to come for those who have trouble affording it potentially hard to justify is the fact that because it definitely seems to work, most of us will want to buy the machine. It seems like everyone here is taking the machine home with them to treat. Even if I walk out of here with all my symptoms still in place, as long as the lyme is gone I probably won't ever go on ABx again. I'll probably be using the machine to treat everything else.
Six really does look great!! she aint lying. =)
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I was also wondering if anyone knows the author of this blog:
sarahlindy.blogspot.com
she started blogging about her experience with the bionic, but i haven't heard anything from it since. She is following six's and my blog so i know she is out there!!! Just wanted to see how she's doing since she should be done with treatment by now
thanks, joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14794
posted
I know her. She was in Germany the same time I was. We spent a wonderful day in Ettlingen together.
Last I heard she was doing well.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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that's great to hear. She must've been feeling so good she forgot to finish blogging about it haha
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I am so grateful to all of you who are posting your experiences with the Bionic 880. And it is also really nice to hear about other aspects of the experience such as traveling and lodging etc., from your blogsites. The more that we can know, the less anxiety there will be about going to Germany for this treatment. Because anxiety over 'unknowns' can be an obstacle in itself, particularly with regard to foriegn travel.
Though I do not feel that Dr. W's treatment is the only way out of this illness... it is appearing to be another very viable option that will widen, in my opinion, what has previously been a relatively narrow circle of options for us.
Wishing all who are there much success with Dr. W's treatment and many days of true health ahead.
Claire Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Mojoey and Six, Nice to hear from you and glad you're doing well!!
About making sure you DO have lyme... I think my + WB and my low CD57 is enough... even though I doubt myself everyday. I am sure there are other factors involved. My son and brother also have lyme (highly suspect my fiance too). so maybe I can also get a machine to bring back and treat them...
If we get the group togther that we were talking to last night, I say LET'S do it!!!
Wishing you all continued healing
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hey new england folks --
i live in nyc and am seriously considering making a trip over the summer as well, so if you all end up going then i would love to accompany you (spring might be a little too early for me).
anyone else from the east coast who is thinking of seeing dr. w this coming summer, please pm me.
And congrats to Six. I am so glad she is feeling better and the treatment seems to be working for her. YEAH!!!!!
This is so exciting. If this trend of ppl going and feeling better, continues then I think you are going to see a lot of ppl going over.
I will continue to read your blogs. We can't thank you enough for sharing your story's with us.
Elizabeth
PS I know we are not over there with everyone, but in a strange way, it feels as if we are. You don't know how inspiring this is for many ppl back here.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I just met Scott.
We had a great day today! Went to Heidelburg .... walked all the way up a large hill to see a castle!!! It was fun and beautiful weather, too.
If you come over, see Heidelburg when you're feeling a bit better .... lots of walking to see it the way you will want to be seeing it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hi, this is joylindy. I just PMed Joey, but for the others, I 'm the one with the sarahlindy54 blogspot. I post here as joylindy if you want to read my posts about going to Germany to see Dr. W.
I started a blog while I was there, then abandoned it since I was trying to avoid EMF exposure while in treatment.
My experience overall was positive. Next week I will be checked out by Dr. J in Kansas, and will report back on his assessment of my body's state.
I am teaching at a 7 day retreat right now, and the retreat team all tells me how different I seem and how much stronger and more energetic I am. I feel it too, but it's nice to hear from others.
Germany was important for me because it cleared the lyme. I didn't expect to be totally symptom free afterwards, just better, which I am. I don't regret going for a minute!
Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Wow.....
I'm on day 8 in bed unable to do a thing. I want this treatment.
However I am really thinking about what Joey said, and it does seem to make waaaaayy more sense if we pool our resources here in NE and get someone here to treat us.
I mean, if we each kicked in a thousand bucks, we could get the machine, and set up a practitioner; I know a great NE friend who is an acupuncturist and on this board, Luvdogs, maybe she would be interested?
It might not be prudent for 10 or 12 of us to fly to Germany this summer (tempting though it is) if someone can figure out how to get a machine in each state or so, and practitioners nearby.
Isn't Steelbone from CT? Is he bringing back a machine?
I'm way too sick to figure it out, but as I recall Sunshiney Day in MA was also looking for people to start a group around here...
HELP....I am more than willing to kick in some bucks, SSDI back pay coming soon.....but can't do any of the legwork.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I am seriously considering going to Europe for treatment...
...I am also wondering about importing a unit to Canada (the manufacturer confirmed they will ship to me) IF I could only find a MD or ND who would assist with treatment.
I have 3 small children and it would be very hard to be away from them for 3-4 weeks.
Anyone from Toronto/Southern Ontario region please PM me if they are aware of a practitioner who might be interested.
posted
reading some of the earlier posts about dr. w. finding american patients harder to treat.. i would suspect mycoplasma fermentans as one reason for this.
m
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
also, any chance of the price of the machine coming down over time?
m
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?
Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.
I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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I understand how you feel and it's only natural.. look at what we have all been through.
I was going to ask the same question about why they couldn't treat the EBV or other problems with the bionic, seeing as it is not ONLY for lyme. I have read online that it treats a variety of things.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
quote:Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?
Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.
I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53
If Lyme is treated satisfactorily and if people follow the schedule for rechecking for the months as indicated by the recommended protocol by Dr. W., according to him and the patients I have talked with, Lyme is no longer a problem.
If reinfected afterward, that is a problem. The people who took abx during the treatment will have a problem - that became evident with the trial testing of the 108 group of patients a few years ago. So he warns people. If someone goes back on abx, right after the treatment, while the photons are still doing their job, I do not know what to expect. I didn't ask, but some people are paranoid and go back to the old ways too early. That is must my thought. I do not know.
Many people, however, have a problem with toxicity and other infections before they contracted Lyme and accumulated even more of the same during the disease process while the immune system was out of order.
Many live in a toxic environment - mold, EMF 24/7, toxic relationships, and go back to the same after the treatment.
Many were heavy metal toxic before the treatment and are still facing the identical problems after the treatments for Lyme. The photons help, but most heavy metals are still in the body trying to find their way out.
Some still have the worst source of mercury in their mouth - the amalgams and other metals.
He does not request it that people remove it. It is common sense that if you have infected teeth and different metals in the mouth along with amalgam, to take care of it. The mercury still heads for the brain as long as the amalgams are in the mouth, with or without photons.
My advice would be - do not do photon treatments of any kind if you still have the metal in your mouth. And if you get the Bionic treatment for Lyme, make sure you address the fallout of metals from the die-off.
I am sorry if I sound like a broken record.
Take care.
All cannot be treated at the same time. One would have to stay many weeks and months to get more treatments based on whatever they are. Not all can be treated with the Bionic - structural, biochemical (allergies), healing of the gut, mental --- . Some can, some cannot. That is different for the individual. And I don't think Dr. W. is equipped to go into all of these.
Don't you think it is a little naive to think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria all else is going to be solved in two-three weeks time?
I am still working on the problems that were pre-existing and on the collateral damage, mainly heavy metals and mold/fungi. Some of the collaterals may never be erased.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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I am not trying to be rude. I just want to emphasize that I am not being rude to you!! I think part of what is confusing me is that I thought your husband had been treated for heavy metals and fungus by Dr. K earlier as you always said that had to be taken care of first before the lyme could be eradicated. So, it seem like you are saying the opposite now. Or are you saying the effects of the heavy metals may be permament?
Please do not take offense at this. I am merely trying to understand more, so I can make an intelligent decision about going to Germany.
I have no amalgams left for several years(only had 4 tiny ones to remove--did not even need novacaine) and have been using a variety of chelators over the years in case I have some heavy metals. My house tests negative for mold, but I am sure I get a lot of exposure in the old school building I work in and exposure to EMF's there as well.
I know you have done many thiings even to the extreme of pulling the fuses as night--not realistic in winter here where I need the electric blower for the furnace for I would have frozen pipes and a frozen me.
I have not been on antibiotics since 2005, except for a week with strep throat and a few days with major surgery.
I have used rife, laser therapy, and the Sota infrared machine along with some herbs. So, I am ready for another adventure, but want to be wise about it.
I hope your husband continues to improve and I do appreciate the information you post.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10170 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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